CsoundVST runs "out of the box" from the installer, for me, every time I have tried it, as long as Python is installed first. What does Winsound do that CsoundVST does not do?

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
>From: mrhoades@perceptionfactory.com
>Sent: Apr 26, 2006 10:39 AM
>To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: [Csnd] 4.23 Manual
>
>I would agree with this point of view. It may be presumptuous of me but I
>want to install Winsound and have it work, which I cannot get to happen so
>far after several attempts, and I would like to have the same functionality
>as version 4.23 Winsound. Then as I understand the potential of the new
>features I will begin to incorporate them into my compositional processes.
>That all may be easier said than done at present... I do not know.
>
>I truly appreciate everyone working so diligently to make Csound 5 happen. I
>am sure it is an enormous task.
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Akbari [mailto:dakbari@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:06 AM
>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> Subject: Re: [Csnd] 4.23 Manual
>> 
>> IMHO, it just boils down to the fact that there are not enough
>> frontends like MacCsound, CsoundAV (Csound 4), Lettuce, Cabel et al
>> (Csound 5) that composers can use "right out of the box" by simply
>> clicking on a few key elements.
>> 
>> The API design of Csound 5 lends itself well to the idea of
>> encapsulating the Csound language in any number of ways, but that is
>> why I do not believe it to be exaggerated to say that Csound is
>> experiencing some growing pains - since people are just beginning to
>> realize the potential of this elegant design.
>> 
>> If and when MacCsound, Cecilia and CsoundAV have Csound5 support, all
>> of the users that migrated to SuperCollider may just be intrigued by
>> Csound once again.
>> 
>> Many of my friends and colleagues that use Csound composing to film use
>> specifically Cecilia since they don't even have to know Csound exists
>> and it "just works".
>> 
>> More of this is required if the Csound community wants to maintain it's
>> draw of musicians and composers and not just programmers looking for
>> something fun to do in their downtime.
>> 
>> 
>> $0.02, well spent.
>> 
>> 
>> -David
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 26, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
>> 
>> > What exactly do you think Csound5 fails to offer in comparison to
>> > earlier versions? As a user of csound for a while I had no problem in
>> > upgrading to Csound5, saying that I am not an advanced user by any
>> > means. Perhaps if you let the developers know they can incorporate
>> > your views into future releases?
>> >
>> > Rory.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Michael Rhoades wrote:
>> >> Hello All.
>> >> Can anyone tell me where I can download a copy of the html, frames
>> >> version
>> >> of the Csound manual? Ideally this would be for version 4.23f. I have
>> >> been
>> >> searching extensively for it and cannot find it except as the online
>> >> version. I recently rebuilt my computer and cannot seem to find a
>> >> copy of it
>> >> in my backups.
>> >> Also, a bit of an "against the grain" comment:
>> >> I realize I am likely in the minority on this list and I intend no
>> >> disrespect to the amazing developers working diligently on Csound 5,
>> >> but I
>> >> am somewhat  disappointed that the concept of version 4 and its
>> >> predecessors
>> >> appears not to be being developed further. I love it for its utter
>> >> simplicity, elegance and usability. It has a few bugs that I would
>> >> liked to
>> >> have seen cleaned up and perhaps the code could have been optimized
>> >> for
>> >> speed. But otherwise it is a beautiful thing in its simplicity.
>> >> Admittedly,
>> >> I am rather overwhelmed as a composer, non-programmer, with Csound 5.
>> >> Thanks for letting me vent.
>> >> Lastly, I have a new composition called "Release!" on my mp3 page. I
>> >> would
>> >> love to hear any comments...
>> >> Michael
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> --
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email to csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> 
>> ---
>> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 2/14/2005
>> 
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 2/14/2005
> 
>
>--
>Send bugs reports to this list.
>To unsubscribe, send email to csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk

On Apr 26, 2006, at 11:58 AM, Michael Gogins wrote:

> What does Winsound do that CsoundVST does not do?

Run without the necessary presence of Python 2.4.

When trying to install Csound5 on older DX486 machines for example, 
where the Hard Drive is only 1GB in size, it makes a huge difference to 
require users to install Python when they're just trying to use Csound5 
*to make music*. As a musician myself, I still have yet to discover any 
real musical utility in the Python language - not because it isn't 
there, but because I'm usually too busy writing music to try and learn 
another high level language. To be honest I really only use Python as a 
calculator for its built in eval function.

I have many friends and colleagues that are musicians and composers 
that are beginning to shy away from Csound because they "never want to 
see the Terminal". This is a fact of life - not for computer musicians 
but for the mainstream audience. I hate to see so many of my peers 
migrating to other languages (mostly ChucK and SuperCollider) simply 
because they have "pretty" frontends that don't require a lot of typing 
(other than the Csound language itself) to get making sound.

CsoundVST definitely runs out of the box, on Windows & Linux it is an 
excellent and intuitive choice; I use it on the latter OS quite a bit.

If and when Lettuce gets ported to Linux and there is a 
MacCsound5/Cecilia5 I would expect to see no less than a surge in the 
Csound user base. A CsoundVST that links properly into a .dylib on the 
Mac would also be a huge bonus.

To summarize, my point is that there has to be more of a conscious 
effort by the Csound Developers and Community to ** not let the medium 
influence the (musical) message **. If this is within reach, then we 
are on the verge of a new golden era in music making AND PRODUCTION 
(yes, it can be a viable production tool) using Csound as the solitary 
tool.



-David

Hi Mike.

I would imagine I work differently than most Csound users and so my answer
is strictly with regard to my own process. I write my .orc using only the
orc window of WinXoundPro (love the syntax highlighting) and my sco using
Excel (love the numerical manipulation aspects). What I like about Winsound
is that if none of the file names have changed since the last render, I use
a key shortcut to start it and hit enter and it renders. I do not need or
want an editor for the sco or the orc in that interface. Just a really quick
way to render my next sound file. The simpler this operation is, the better.
Generally I make two keystrokes and I am rendering. If I do change a file
name it is all right there in the main window.

CsoundVST looks great and it is wonderfully fast but IMHO there seem to be
too many hoops to jump through to work in an intuitive, transparent way. It
looks like you either have to use the built in editor or import files. Am I
missing something?

So Winsound's lack of features is what attracts me. With it I can put all my
attention on refining the orc and sco. Like Dr. B. says it is a matter of
maintaining the flow in that "zone" we crave and develop as composers.

Thanks for listening,

Michael




On 4/26/06 11:58 AM, "Michael Gogins"  wrote:

> CsoundVST runs "out of the box" from the installer, for me, every time I have
> tried it, as long as Python is installed first. What does Winsound do that
> CsoundVST does not do?
> 
> Regards,
> Mike
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mrhoades@perceptionfactory.com
>> Sent: Apr 26, 2006 10:39 AM
>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> Subject: Re: [Csnd] 4.23 Manual
>> 
>> I would agree with this point of view. It may be presumptuous of me but I
>> want to install Winsound and have it work, which I cannot get to happen so
>> far after several attempts, and I would like to have the same functionality
>> as version 4.23 Winsound. Then as I understand the potential of the new
>> features I will begin to incorporate them into my compositional processes.
>> That all may be easier said than done at present... I do not know.
>> 
>> I truly appreciate everyone working so diligently to make Csound 5 happen. I
>> am sure it is an enormous task.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Akbari [mailto:dakbari@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:06 AM
>>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>> Subject: Re: [Csnd] 4.23 Manual
>>> 
>>> IMHO, it just boils down to the fact that there are not enough
>>> frontends like MacCsound, CsoundAV (Csound 4), Lettuce, Cabel et al
>>> (Csound 5) that composers can use "right out of the box" by simply
>>> clicking on a few key elements.
>>> 
>>> The API design of Csound 5 lends itself well to the idea of
>>> encapsulating the Csound language in any number of ways, but that is
>>> why I do not believe it to be exaggerated to say that Csound is
>>> experiencing some growing pains - since people are just beginning to
>>> realize the potential of this elegant design.
>>> 
>>> If and when MacCsound, Cecilia and CsoundAV have Csound5 support, all
>>> of the users that migrated to SuperCollider may just be intrigued by
>>> Csound once again.
>>> 
>>> Many of my friends and colleagues that use Csound composing to film use
>>> specifically Cecilia since they don't even have to know Csound exists
>>> and it "just works".
>>> 
>>> More of this is required if the Csound community wants to maintain it's
>>> draw of musicians and composers and not just programmers looking for
>>> something fun to do in their downtime.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> $0.02, well spent.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -David
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Apr 26, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>> 
>>>> What exactly do you think Csound5 fails to offer in comparison to
>>>> earlier versions? As a user of csound for a while I had no problem in
>>>> upgrading to Csound5, saying that I am not an advanced user by any
>>>> means. Perhaps if you let the developers know they can incorporate
>>>> your views into future releases?
>>>> 
>>>> Rory.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Michael Rhoades wrote:
>>>>> Hello All.
>>>>> Can anyone tell me where I can download a copy of the html, frames
>>>>> version
>>>>> of the Csound manual? Ideally this would be for version 4.23f. I have
>>>>> been
>>>>> searching extensively for it and cannot find it except as the online
>>>>> version. I recently rebuilt my computer and cannot seem to find a
>>>>> copy of it
>>>>> in my backups.
>>>>> Also, a bit of an "against the grain" comment:
>>>>> I realize I am likely in the minority on this list and I intend no
>>>>> disrespect to the amazing developers working diligently on Csound 5,
>>>>> but I
>>>>> am somewhat  disappointed that the concept of version 4 and its
>>>>> predecessors
>>>>> appears not to be being developed further. I love it for its utter
>>>>> simplicity, elegance and usability. It has a few bugs that I would
>>>>> liked to
>>>>> have seen cleaned up and perhaps the code could have been optimized
>>>>> for
>>>>> speed. But otherwise it is a beautiful thing in its simplicity.
>>>>> Admittedly,
>>>>> I am rather overwhelmed as a composer, non-programmer, with Csound 5.
>>>>> Thanks for letting me vent.
>>>>> Lastly, I have a new composition called "Release!" on my mp3 page. I
>>>>> would
>>>>> love to hear any comments...
>>>>> Michael