I would like to raise a interrogation.
I use Csound since one year, and i found it very
impressive in the domain of the sound making.  But I
have to admit that the "sound" of csound is not alive.
The volume cannot be used as a full paramater like for
example in digital performer with automation. Another
aspect witch is important to me is the panoramic and
it can't be fully controled with Csound. I am not
talking about going from left to right but about
making of space a living parameter. 
The last interrogation goes on the parfection of
sound. I tried to record them with a microphone and to
put them together with digital performer and it seem
to me that it gain in richness of sound ( even if the
sounds are not very rich ).

But I have to say that csound's possibilities are
quite impressive for professional of pograming with it
in the domain of sound. But sound is living.
 
To put an exemple of what i have said here, you can
listen to an extract of a music witch is called :
"rapport à l'eau" and witch you can find find here : 

http://www.lalolne.com/computermusic.htm ( look for
the piece called "rapport à l'eau", the first two
aren't good, and the 1492 cycle is interesting but
have some sound problem )

Good Time.

Nicolas DRWESKI


	

	
		
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How 'alive' the sound coming out of Csound is will depend on:

1. your synthesis/processing algorithm
2. your ability and knowledge of it, so that it can what you
want it to do.

Commercial software such as Performer generally will come
with settings that are ready-to-go for doing the standard stuff.
So it is no wonder that it gives you a better result against
straight away. With Csound, the ball is in your court and
you have to make it work.

It is not true that you cannot automate or control volume (or
any other parameter) in Csound. There are many different ways
  you can do it, for instance:

1. use an envelope
2. use a MIDI controller
3. use a GUI controller

As for pan, you can do any panning you'd like: intensity,
time-delay-based, HRTF, ambisonics 1st and 2nd order, stereo,
quad, 5.1, 7.1, 32-channel, ... all you need to do is implement
it in the orchestra language.

That is the real bottom line: you have to learn to cook.

Victor

At 10:11 13/02/2006, you wrote:
>I would like to raise a interrogation.
>I use Csound since one year, and i found it very
>impressive in the domain of the sound making.  But I
>have to admit that the "sound" of csound is not alive.
>The volume cannot be used as a full paramater like for
>example in digital performer with automation. Another
>aspect witch is important to me is the panoramic and
>it can't be fully controled with Csound. I am not
>talking about going from left to right but about
>making of space a living parameter.
>The last interrogation goes on the parfection of
>sound. I tried to record them with a microphone and to
>put them together with digital performer and it seem
>to me that it gain in richness of sound ( even if the
>sounds are not very rich ).
>
>But I have to say that csound's possibilities are
>quite impressive for professional of pograming with it
>in the domain of sound. But sound is living.
>
>To put an exemple of what i have said here, you can
>listen to an extract of a music witch is called :
>"rapport à l'eau" and witch you can find find here :
>
>http://www.lalolne.com/computermusic.htm ( look for
>the piece called "rapport à l'eau", the first two
>aren't good, and the 1492 cycle is interesting but
>have some sound problem )
>
>Good Time.
>
>Nicolas DRWESKI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les 
>tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international.
>Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com
>--
>Send bugs reports to this list.
>To unsubscribe, send email to csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk

Victor Lazzarini
Music Technology Laboratory
Music Department
National University of Ireland, Maynooth 

Personaly, I have never heard a piece of "programmed
music " that sounded alive. And never heard too a
piece composed with csound that was really taking
advantage of volumes and panoramic like in the musique
concrète ( schaeffer, bayle...) for example witch have
really an art of mixing and produce sounds. Maybe I
don't know them, but I have listen a lot.

Nicolas

--- Victor Lazzarini  a
écrit :

> How 'alive' the sound coming out of Csound is will
> depend on:
> 
> 1. your synthesis/processing algorithm
> 2. your ability and knowledge of it, so that it can
> what you
> want it to do.
> 
> Commercial software such as Performer generally will
> come
> with settings that are ready-to-go for doing the
> standard stuff.
> So it is no wonder that it gives you a better result
> against
> straight away. With Csound, the ball is in your
> court and
> you have to make it work.
> 
> It is not true that you cannot automate or control
> volume (or
> any other parameter) in Csound. There are many
> different ways
>   you can do it, for instance:
> 
> 1. use an envelope
> 2. use a MIDI controller
> 3. use a GUI controller
> 
> As for pan, you can do any panning you'd like:
> intensity,
> time-delay-based, HRTF, ambisonics 1st and 2nd
> order, stereo,
> quad, 5.1, 7.1, 32-channel, ... all you need to do
> is implement
> it in the orchestra language.
> 
> That is the real bottom line: you have to learn to
> cook.
> 
> Victor
> 
> At 10:11 13/02/2006, you wrote:
> >I would like to raise a interrogation.
> >I use Csound since one year, and i found it very
> >impressive in the domain of the sound making.  But
> I
> >have to admit that the "sound" of csound is not
> alive.
> >The volume cannot be used as a full paramater like
> for
> >example in digital performer with automation.
> Another
> >aspect witch is important to me is the panoramic
> and
> >it can't be fully controled with Csound. I am not
> >talking about going from left to right but about
> >making of space a living parameter.
> >The last interrogation goes on the parfection of
> >sound. I tried to record them with a microphone and
> to
> >put them together with digital performer and it
> seem
> >to me that it gain in richness of sound ( even if
> the
> >sounds are not very rich ).
> >
> >But I have to say that csound's possibilities are
> >quite impressive for professional of pograming with
> it
> >in the domain of sound. But sound is living.
> >
> >To put an exemple of what i have said here, you can
> >listen to an extract of a music witch is called :
> >"rapport à l'eau" and witch you can find find here
> :
> >
> >http://www.lalolne.com/computermusic.htm ( look for
> >the piece called "rapport à l'eau", the first two
> >aren't good, and the 1492 cycle is interesting but
> >have some sound problem )
> >
> >Good Time.
> >
> >Nicolas DRWESKI
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
> >Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo!
> Messenger ! Découvez les 
> >tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et
> l'international.
> >Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com
> >--
> >Send bugs reports to this list.
> >To unsubscribe, send email to
> csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk
> 
> Victor Lazzarini
> Music Technology Laboratory
> Music Department
> National University of Ireland, Maynooth 
> 
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to
> csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk
> 



	

	
		
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If the musical sensibility is present, then the software used to  
implement musical ideas is of no consequence.

Personally I have yet to hear any music made with Digital Performer or  
any other comparable piece of commercial software that really "sounded  
alive". Actually it's proven only to make music sound less alive,  
because too often I hear the music of my colleagues that is all done  
with commercial software and layering presets and it "sounds good", but  
only because it has a certain polish that is afforded exclusively by  
modern software.

By contrast, I hear many pieces of music made with Csound that sound  
analogous to the ideas found in Musiqué Concrète in many ways. Perhaps  
you should listen to more of the music on cSounds.com in the "[+]  
Listen!" tab. You will find that more techniques are used from Musiqué  
Concrète in Csound than anywhere else because of the low-level control  
of audio samples either in RAM or streamed from disk that relate  
directly to the tape techniques implemented in Musiqué Conctète.

I also curiously wonder why people think a click-and-draw linear  
automation capability is superior in any way to the idea of indexing  
tables ? Why not just use Cecilia and draw your panning if you feel  
that's the most musical way to do it ? At least you're not limited to  
127 steps of resolution..

Too often avid supporters of such commercial software are ultimately  
slaves of the preset, and it shows in their music. Csound is what you  
use when "out of the box" no longer cuts it.


-David

On Feb 13, 2006, at 6:08 AM, Drweski nicolas wrote:

> Personaly, I have never heard a piece of "programmed
> music " that sounded alive. And never heard too a
> piece composed with csound that was really taking
> advantage of volumes and panoramic like in the musique
> concrète ( schaeffer, bayle...) for example witch have
> really an art of mixing and produce sounds. Maybe I
> don't know them, but I have listen a lot.
>
> Nicolas
>
> --- Victor Lazzarini  a
> écrit :
>
>> How 'alive' the sound coming out of Csound is will
>> depend on:
>>
>> 1. your synthesis/processing algorithm
>> 2. your ability and knowledge of it, so that it can
>> what you
>> want it to do.
>>
>> Commercial software such as Performer generally will
>> come
>> with settings that are ready-to-go for doing the
>> standard stuff.
>> So it is no wonder that it gives you a better result
>> against
>> straight away. With Csound, the ball is in your
>> court and
>> you have to make it work.
>>
>> It is not true that you cannot automate or control
>> volume (or
>> any other parameter) in Csound. There are many
>> different ways
>>   you can do it, for instance:
>>
>> 1. use an envelope
>> 2. use a MIDI controller
>> 3. use a GUI controller
>>
>> As for pan, you can do any panning you'd like:
>> intensity,
>> time-delay-based, HRTF, ambisonics 1st and 2nd
>> order, stereo,
>> quad, 5.1, 7.1, 32-channel, ... all you need to do
>> is implement
>> it in the orchestra language.
>>
>> That is the real bottom line: you have to learn to
>> cook.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> At 10:11 13/02/2006, you wrote:
>>> I would like to raise a interrogation.
>>> I use Csound since one year, and i found it very
>>> impressive in the domain of the sound making.  But
>> I
>>> have to admit that the "sound" of csound is not
>> alive.
>>> The volume cannot be used as a full paramater like
>> for
>>> example in digital performer with automation.
>> Another
>>> aspect witch is important to me is the panoramic
>> and
>>> it can't be fully controled with Csound. I am not
>>> talking about going from left to right but about
>>> making of space a living parameter.
>>> The last interrogation goes on the parfection of
>>> sound. I tried to record them with a microphone and
>> to
>>> put them together with digital performer and it
>> seem
>>> to me that it gain in richness of sound ( even if
>> the
>>> sounds are not very rich ).
>>>
>>> But I have to say that csound's possibilities are
>>> quite impressive for professional of pograming with
>> it
>>> in the domain of sound. But sound is living.
>>>
>>> To put an exemple of what i have said here, you can
>>> listen to an extract of a music witch is called :
>>> "rapport à l'eau" and witch you can find find here
>> :
>>>
>>> http://www.lalolne.com/computermusic.htm ( look for
>>> the piece called "rapport à l'eau", the first two
>>> aren't good, and the 1492 cycle is interesting but
>>> have some sound problem )
>>>
>>> Good Time.
>>>
>>> Nicolas DRWESKI
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________ 
>> _____
>>> Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo!
>> Messenger ! Découvez les
>>> tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et
>> l'international.
>>> Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com
>>> --
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email to
>> csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>
>> Victor Lazzarini
>> Music Technology Laboratory
>> Music Department
>> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
>>
>> --
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email to
>> csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>
>
>
>
> 	
>
> 	
> 		
> _______________________________________________________________________ 
> ____
> Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les  
> tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international.
> Téléchargez sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com
> -- 
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk
>