I guess what I was trying to suggest was that since an individuals
perception so much decides the line between music and not, the
extremities for a given individual may range from no audible sound to
White noise. Common functional norms generally reduce the limits to
include the kinds of attributes you describe, but if someone feels that
silence is music, then it is, equally if someone believes that white
noise is music, then it is.

That's a fascinating point about the movements in 4'33" that I wasn't
aware of. 

Cheers,

Barton.




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Mossey [mailto:mpm@alumni.caltech.edu] 
> Sent: Monday, 13 February 2006 12:55 p.m.
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: [Csnd] Algorithmic composition - the simplest model
> 
> 
> 
> > How about where we started, 4'33"?
> >
> >
> 
> Do you regard 4'33" as silence, or as a direction to listen 
> to ambient sounds?
> 
> By the way, 4' 33" has three movements, which is a kind of rhythm.
> 
> Mike
> 
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Michael Mossey [mailto:mpm@alumni.caltech.edu]
> >> Sent: Monday, 13 February 2006 12:38 p.m.
> >> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> >> Subject: Re: [Csnd] Algorithmic composition - the simplest model
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >> >
> >> >>I.e., most music has counterpoint, melody, rhythm,
> >> dynamics,  harmony,
> >> >>articulartion, etc. What can we discard and still have music?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Given that music is so driven by perception (some can 
> interpret as 
> >> > music what others would call noise) I would think it is 
> possible to 
> >> > discard all of those attributes.
> >>
> >> Can you describe a piece that has none of these attributes? I'm 
> >> interested.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
> > 
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> I guess what I was trying to suggest was that since an individuals
> perception so much decides the line between music and not, the
> extremities for a given individual may range from no audible sound to
> White noise. Common functional norms generally reduce the limits to
> include the kinds of attributes you describe, but if someone feels that
> silence is music, then it is, equally if someone believes that white
> noise is music, then it is.
>
> That's a fascinating point about the movements in 4'33" that I wasn't
> aware of.

My memory is vague, but I recall reading that Cage was interested in how
placing a form on something arbitrarily gave it structure. In other words,
if you were sitting out in nature listening to wind and animals moving,
and you decided that this experience would consist of three movements,
each 1 minute, then all sorts of interesting patterns would happen. He
said he was out in nature, doing this very thing, and he had a fantastic,
dramatic middle movement when a deer showed up. In the third movement,
peace returned.

Well, sure, anybody can think anything about music, but I'm still
interested in taking a survey of what individual people think the simplest
form of music is, that interests them. I'd be interested in hearing your
thoughts, (unless you already answered because you are saying silence is
music, for you).

Cheers,
Mike

Michael Mossey wrote:

>... I'm still
>interested in taking a survey of what individual people think the simplest
>form of music is, that interests them.
>
Plainchant.

And the Ramayana monkey chant. :)

Best,

dp