Steven,

Thanks for the reply. Let me clarify.

I did not intend to suggest changing long-established commandline (unix)
traditions. My point was intended to be that users (like me) may be unaware
of the double-dash (long form) tradition, try -help and get nothing. Also,
that now we have *three* sets of flags (-, -- and -+) to try to remember.

No doubt all this would be simpler if we all had taken the basic unix
course. (I'm not sure I'd *assume* Csound followed these conventions
though.)

Thank goodness I can click my little printer icon and print out your email
so I can have easy reference to your good solutions. Otherwise they'd be
gone, gone, gone.

OTOH, most average Windows users know that you can open a text file in
Notepad and hit Print. In a nutshell, I hope we can eventually aim a little
closer to this level of useability. (All I suggested was a text file of the
flags. Perhaps a couple of lines of explanation for -M and -o, -b and -B
would also be useful for beginners. It's real easy to get tripped up right
there at the start.)

Art Hunkins

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Yi" 
To: ; "Art Hunkins" 
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Csnd] GUI INterfaces in CSOUND


On 9/23/05, Art Hunkins  wrote:
> Yes. There are, nonetheless, reasons for doing more:
>
> 1) csound -help would be more intuitive. I easily forget about the double
> dash; and now we have the -+ as well. Information overload; frustration.

Double dash is a long held convention for unix commandline programs.
The convention is:

single dash + single letter = short form of option
double dash + long string = long form of option

I have *no* desire whatsoever for a change to this convention for
csound.  One you know --help, all the other options are easy to find
and look up.


> 2) On WindowsME working from a performance window, my window does not
> scroll. More frustration, given the length of the list. (I've gone nearly
> wacko trying to get -z to stop listing where I needed it to.) This
material
> viewed in Notepad is easy to navigate (and can be left open).

For windows, open up a commandline and type either of these:

csound -z > out.txt
csound -z1 > out.txt

to get it out to a text file, or:

csound -z | more
csound -z1 | more

Which you can then press spacebar to scroll one page at a time.

> 3) I'd like to easily make a hard copy. (My memory isn't what it used to
> be - if it ever was.)

For windows, open up a commandline and type:
csound --help > out.txt

A file called out.txt will have everything from the --help output there.

steven
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An effective solution would be to simply document and include a batch file
opcodes.bat that contains

csound -z1 > opcodes.txt

This gives beginners the desired text file. Windows people should know about
batch files.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Yi [mailto:stevenyi@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 12:26 PM
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk; Art Hunkins
Subject: Re: [Csnd] GUI INterfaces in CSOUND


Hi Art,

Thanks for your reply.  I think rather than include a text file, the
manual entry on commandline flags should be enough and would reduce
the number of things to maintain (which is my greatest concern here).
If most users can click a text file and hit print, they can navigate
the html manual and hit print too (I'd hope!).

If there's missing entries, which is the case now since the manual is
a little behind the pace of development, then it should probably
either be mentioned here on the list or entered into the sourceforge
bug page for the manual (which i prefer, and is available here:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=727182&group_id=81968&func=browse)
so that the manual can be updated.  And since --help is there (and is
a very handy thing for everyone to remember!) and that is always up to
date, then as a worst case the information is available.

steven



On 9/23/05, Art Hunkins  wrote:
> Steven,
>
> Thanks for the reply. Let me clarify.
>
> I did not intend to suggest changing long-established commandline (unix)
> traditions. My point was intended to be that users (like me) may be
unaware
> of the double-dash (long form) tradition, try -help and get nothing. Also,
> that now we have *three* sets of flags (-, -- and -+) to try to remember.
>
> No doubt all this would be simpler if we all had taken the basic unix
> course. (I'm not sure I'd *assume* Csound followed these conventions
> though.)
>
> Thank goodness I can click my little printer icon and print out your email
> so I can have easy reference to your good solutions. Otherwise they'd be
> gone, gone, gone.
>
> OTOH, most average Windows users know that you can open a text file in
> Notepad and hit Print. In a nutshell, I hope we can eventually aim a
little
> closer to this level of useability. (All I suggested was a text file of
the
> flags. Perhaps a couple of lines of explanation for -M and -o, -b and -B
> would also be useful for beginners. It's real easy to get tripped up right
> there at the start.)
>
> Art Hunkins
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Yi" 
> To: ; "Art Hunkins" 
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 2:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Csnd] GUI INterfaces in CSOUND
>
>
> On 9/23/05, Art Hunkins  wrote:
> > Yes. There are, nonetheless, reasons for doing more:
> >
> > 1) csound -help would be more intuitive. I easily forget about the
double
> > dash; and now we have the -+ as well. Information overload; frustration.
>
> Double dash is a long held convention for unix commandline programs.
> The convention is:
>
> single dash + single letter = short form of option
> double dash + long string = long form of option
>
> I have *no* desire whatsoever for a change to this convention for
> csound.  One you know --help, all the other options are easy to find
> and look up.
>
>
> > 2) On WindowsME working from a performance window, my window does not
> > scroll. More frustration, given the length of the list. (I've gone
nearly
> > wacko trying to get -z to stop listing where I needed it to.) This
> material
> > viewed in Notepad is easy to navigate (and can be left open).
>
> For windows, open up a commandline and type either of these:
>
> csound -z > out.txt
> csound -z1 > out.txt
>
> to get it out to a text file, or:
>
> csound -z | more
> csound -z1 | more
>
> Which you can then press spacebar to scroll one page at a time.
>
> > 3) I'd like to easily make a hard copy. (My memory isn't what it used to
> > be - if it ever was.)
>
> For windows, open up a commandline and type:
> csound --help > out.txt
>
> A file called out.txt will have everything from the --help output there.
>
> steven
> --
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk
>
> --
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>
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