Hello everyone,

Maybe my question is very un-technical, but I think everyone asked it to 
himself someday: does exist any instrument implementation for the piano? I 
mean, an imitative synthesis implementation which resembles a real piano 
sound?

Thanks in advance,
Robson

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Any real X is doable in soundfonts, which CSound supports.

To make one sound authentic is non-trivial because our ear is so attuned to
the slight variations in real piano sound. Yamaha has probably done the best
job over the years of creating emulations, but it is not hard to tell the
difference most of the time.

Another factor I find is that when ever I do a work involving piano, which
is usually a colaboration with someone else, the piano undergoes a torture
test known as modification. The synthesis musician is seldom enthusiastic
about the traditional sound of plunked strings in a wooden resonator box,
even if it is nice and shiny in the middle of a stage.

Michael Rempel

-----Original Message-----
From: Robson Cozendey [mailto:russel_rj@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 11:42 AM
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Subject: [Csnd] Piano instrument


Hello everyone,

Maybe my question is very un-technical, but I think everyone asked it to
himself someday: does exist any instrument implementation for the piano? I
mean, an imitative synthesis implementation which resembles a real piano
sound?

Thanks in advance,
Robson

_________________________________________________________________
Chegou o que faltava: MSN Acesso Grátis. Instale Já!
http://www.msn.com.br/discador

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Ok, I liked the idea of soundfonts for making Piano sounds.
I downloaded a 12 megabytes Soundfont archive for the Steinway Piano 
("steinway.SF2") in http://www.hum.aau.dk/~bovbjerg/piano.html , and now I´m 
trying to make it work under CSound.
(It was made for Creative Labs, but this is a universal format, right? :)

I made a skeleton source for the orchestra like this, just to test:

"
sr                  =         44100
kr                  =         4410
ksmps               =         10
nchnls              =         1
ir	sfload "steinway.SF2"                   ; SOUNDFONT2 LOAD
	instr	101
a1	oscil	10000, 440, 1	; amplitude, frequency, function number
	out a1
	endin
"

but the CSound (version 5.0) is giving the message:

"error:  no legal opcode, line 2:
ihandle sfload "steinway.SF2" "

I saw another source where he made the statement like this:

"       sr=44100
        kr=4410
        ksmps=10
        nchnls=1

        gifilhandle sfload "/home/dlphilp/soundfiles/sfonts/8mbgmsfx.sf2"

        instr 1
       (....)
"

the same, right? why my csound dont recognize the opcode 'sfload' ? Maybe 
the 'beta' version doesn´t support it?

Does anybody has a working SoundFont sourcecode example?

Thanks in advance,
Robson


>From: Michael Rempel 
>Reply-To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: [Csnd] Piano instrument
>Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:27:22 -0700
>
>Any real X is doable in soundfonts, which CSound supports.
>
>To make one sound authentic is non-trivial because our ear is so attuned to
>the slight variations in real piano sound. Yamaha has probably done the 
>best
>job over the years of creating emulations, but it is not hard to tell the
>difference most of the time.
>
>Another factor I find is that when ever I do a work involving piano, which
>is usually a colaboration with someone else, the piano undergoes a torture
>test known as modification. The synthesis musician is seldom enthusiastic
>about the traditional sound of plunked strings in a wooden resonator box,
>even if it is nice and shiny in the middle of a stage.
>
>Michael Rempel
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Robson Cozendey [mailto:russel_rj@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 11:42 AM
>To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>Subject: [Csnd] Piano instrument
>
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>Maybe my question is very un-technical, but I think everyone asked it to
>himself someday: does exist any instrument implementation for the piano? I
>mean, an imitative synthesis implementation which resembles a real piano
>sound?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Robson
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chegou o que faltava: MSN Acesso Grátis. Instale Já!
>http://www.msn.com.br/discador
>
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>Send bugs reports to this list.
>To unsubscribe, send email to csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk
>
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Robson Cozendey wrote:

> but the CSound (version 5.0) is giving the message:
> 
> "error:  no legal opcode, line 2:
> ihandle sfload "steinway.SF2" "

You probably did not set the OPCODEDIR environment variable,
or OPCODEDIR64 if you use double precision, to the directory
containing plugin libraries, such as sfont.dll or libsfont.so.

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Thank you, Istvan!
It worked for the "sf" soundfont family opcodes, but not for the "fluid" 
family of opcodes, and now I´m getting the same error "no legal opcode", 
even if I set the OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 to "lib" and "lib64". Any idea 
about that?

here is the error for "fluidLoad":
"error:  no legal opcode, line 11:
fluidLoad "steinway.sf2", ienginenum"

ps1: Steven, that "Steinway Grand Piano.SF2" file that you use in the 
documentation example for "fluidEngine" is available on the net?

ps2: I went far enough with "sf" opcodes to where all work, list and assign 
presets, but the "sfplay" produces no sound, I don´t know if the error is 
the SF2 file

ps3: btw, anybody know what´s the soundfont opcodes which Csound will make 
standard in the future? the "sf" or the "fluid" family of opcodes? the fluid 
apparently have more resources and documentation examples.



>From: Istvan Varga 
>Reply-To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: [Csnd] Piano instrument
>Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:16:59 +0200
>
>Robson Cozendey wrote:
>
>>but the CSound (version 5.0) is giving the message:
>>
>>"error:  no legal opcode, line 2:
>>ihandle sfload "steinway.SF2" "
>
>You probably did not set the OPCODEDIR environment variable,
>or OPCODEDIR64 if you use double precision, to the directory
>containing plugin libraries, such as sfont.dll or libsfont.so.
>
>--
>Send bugs reports to this list.
>To unsubscribe, send email to csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk

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The fluid opcodes are not included with my release of Csound,
because I do not have the fluidsynth library for Windows (I may
try building it, though). The other Csound 5 package by Michael
Gogins does include fluid (as well as many other) opcodes, but
it is built from older sources, and does not have single precision
binaries.

Robson Cozendey wrote:

> Thank you, Istvan!
> It worked for the "sf" soundfont family opcodes, but not for the "fluid" 
> family of opcodes, and now I´m getting the same error "no legal opcode", 
> even if I set the OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 to "lib" and "lib64". Any 
> idea about that?
> 
> here is the error for "fluidLoad":
> "error:  no legal opcode, line 11:
> fluidLoad "steinway.sf2", ienginenum"
> 
> ps1: Steven, that "Steinway Grand Piano.SF2" file that you use in the 
> documentation example for "fluidEngine" is available on the net?
> 
> ps2: I went far enough with "sf" opcodes to where all work, list and 
> assign presets, but the "sfplay" produces no sound, I don´t know if the 
> error is the SF2 file
> 
> ps3: btw, anybody know what´s the soundfont opcodes which Csound will 
> make standard in the future? the "sf" or the "fluid" family of opcodes? 
> the fluid apparently have more resources and documentation examples.
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Thanks Istvan, your answers are always right to the point!
I confess that I´m in the user level well rather than the developer level 
:), so I wonder does anyone have a .orc , .sco and .sf2 already tested files 
working? If by luck does anyone have one, let me know, I´m kind of lost why 
"sfplay" keeps its silence with my sf2 file :)

Thanks in advance,
Robson

>From: Istvan Varga 
>Reply-To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: [Csnd] Piano instrument
>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:36:31 +0200
>
>The fluid opcodes are not included with my release of Csound,
>because I do not have the fluidsynth library for Windows (I may
>try building it, though). The other Csound 5 package by Michael
>Gogins does include fluid (as well as many other) opcodes, but
>it is built from older sources, and does not have single precision
>binaries.
>
>Robson Cozendey wrote:
>
>>Thank you, Istvan!
>>It worked for the "sf" soundfont family opcodes, but not for the "fluid" 
>>family of opcodes, and now I´m getting the same error "no legal opcode", 
>>even if I set the OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 to "lib" and "lib64". Any idea 
>>about that?
>>
>>here is the error for "fluidLoad":
>>"error:  no legal opcode, line 11:
>>fluidLoad "steinway.sf2", ienginenum"
>>
>>ps1: Steven, that "Steinway Grand Piano.SF2" file that you use in the 
>>documentation example for "fluidEngine" is available on the net?
>>
>>ps2: I went far enough with "sf" opcodes to where all work, list and 
>>assign presets, but the "sfplay" produces no sound, I don´t know if the 
>>error is the SF2 file
>>
>>ps3: btw, anybody know what´s the soundfont opcodes which Csound will make 
>>standard in the future? the "sf" or the "fluid" family of opcodes? the 
>>fluid apparently have more resources and documentation examples.
>--
>Send bugs reports to this list.
>To unsubscribe, send email to csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk

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Just a question: I need a soundcard like SoundBlasterLive to run CSound with 
soundfonts? Please, answer me or I will buy the soundcard this week :)

Thanks in advance,
Robson


>From: "Robson Cozendey" 
>Reply-To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: [Csnd] Piano instrument
>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:21:35 +0000
>
>Thanks Istvan, your answers are always right to the point!
>I confess that I´m in the user level well rather than the developer level 
>:), so I wonder does anyone have a .orc , .sco and .sf2 already tested 
>files working? If by luck does anyone have one, let me know, I´m kind of 
>lost why "sfplay" keeps its silence with my sf2 file :)
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Robson
>
>>From: Istvan Varga 
>>Reply-To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>Subject: Re: [Csnd] Piano instrument
>>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:36:31 +0200
>>
>>The fluid opcodes are not included with my release of Csound,
>>because I do not have the fluidsynth library for Windows (I may
>>try building it, though). The other Csound 5 package by Michael
>>Gogins does include fluid (as well as many other) opcodes, but
>>it is built from older sources, and does not have single precision
>>binaries.
>>
>>Robson Cozendey wrote:
>>
>>>Thank you, Istvan!
>>>It worked for the "sf" soundfont family opcodes, but not for the "fluid" 
>>>family of opcodes, and now I´m getting the same error "no legal opcode", 
>>>even if I set the OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 to "lib" and "lib64". Any 
>>>idea about that?
>>>
>>>here is the error for "fluidLoad":
>>>"error:  no legal opcode, line 11:
>>>fluidLoad "steinway.sf2", ienginenum"
>>>
>>>ps1: Steven, that "Steinway Grand Piano.SF2" file that you use in the 
>>>documentation example for "fluidEngine" is available on the net?
>>>
>>>ps2: I went far enough with "sf" opcodes to where all work, list and 
>>>assign presets, but the "sfplay" produces no sound, I don´t know if the 
>>>error is the SF2 file
>>>
>>>ps3: btw, anybody know what´s the soundfont opcodes which Csound will 
>>>make standard in the future? the "sf" or the "fluid" family of opcodes? 
>>>the fluid apparently have more resources and documentation examples.
>>--
>>Send bugs reports to this list.
>>To unsubscribe, send email to csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>http://messenger.msn.com.br
>
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You can get lots of them from places like

http://www.hammersound.net

If you want a CD of free fonts I send a disk to Dr. B a while back. If he
wants to post the files on line, then I have no objections other than some
of them have copyright but I dont recall which ones. lol. I do know that all
of it is/was ok to use for non-commercial purposes, but beyond that I can
not say.

I also send a bunch of Impulse responses, 2 cds, and a bunch of freeware
audio stuff, most of which is excellent. In fact most of you probably have a
good deal of it already.

I have made all of these available to Csounds at no charge. So if several
people want to collect these, then perhaps it might bring in a few dollars
for Dr. B and the web site if you ask him for them, rather than me. I
suggest $30us for the collection on DVD, but I have not discussed it with
him.


Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Yi [mailto:stevenyi@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 5:20 PM
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [Csnd] Piano instrument


Hi Robson,

I think I got the sf2 file from here:

http://www.pianosounds.com/freesoundfont.htm

Either that, or I did buy a CD from Hammersound a few years ago which
I'm not sure they offer or not anymore.

Regarding the sf and fluid opcodes, they're a bit different and have
different usages.  WIth the sf opcodes, you get the waveform stored in
the sf2 file and can manipulate that, while with the fluid opcodes,
you can use the sf2 as you would play it with MIDI on a sf2 sampler
(which fluid is), and you get all of the effects the sf2 format
supports (i.e. lfo envelope).  Fluid also does 8x oversampling (I
believe) which matches the hardware Soundblaster cards.

I've attached a Piano tremelo example that uses the fluid opcodes.

steven


On 9/10/05, Robson Cozendey  wrote:
> Thank you, Istvan!
> It worked for the "sf" soundfont family opcodes, but not for the "fluid"
> family of opcodes, and now I´m getting the same error "no legal opcode",
> even if I set the OPCODEDIR and OPCODEDIR64 to "lib" and "lib64". Any idea
> about that?
>
> here is the error for "fluidLoad":
> "error:  no legal opcode, line 11:
> fluidLoad "steinway.sf2", ienginenum"
>
> ps1: Steven, that "Steinway Grand Piano.SF2" file that you use in the
> documentation example for "fluidEngine" is available on the net?
>
> ps2: I went far enough with "sf" opcodes to where all work, list and
assign
> presets, but the "sfplay" produces no sound, I don´t know if the error is
> the SF2 file
>
> ps3: btw, anybody know what´s the soundfont opcodes which Csound will make
> standard in the future? the "sf" or the "fluid" family of opcodes? the
fluid
> apparently have more resources and documentation examples.
>
>
>
> >From: Istvan Varga 
> >Reply-To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> >To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> >Subject: Re: [Csnd] Piano instrument
> >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:16:59 +0200
> >
> >Robson Cozendey wrote:
> >
> >>but the CSound (version 5.0) is giving the message:
> >>
> >>"error:  no legal opcode, line 2:
> >>ihandle sfload "steinway.SF2" "
> >
> >You probably did not set the OPCODEDIR environment variable,
> >or OPCODEDIR64 if you use double precision, to the directory
> >containing plugin libraries, such as sfont.dll or libsfont.so.
> >
> >--
> >Send bugs reports to this list.
> >To unsubscribe, send email to csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chegou o que faltava: MSN Acesso Grátis. Instale Já!
> http://www.msn.com.br/discador
>
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>

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