Hi Peiman -

as to the GUI: did you try QuteCsound? For me it's exactly what you  
request (and what I was looking for before Andrés did it). Or what is  
different in SC's GUI objects?

Ciao -
	joachim



Am 05.07.2009 um 11:32 schrieb peiman khosravi:

> Hi,
>
> Are you using csound~ external inside max?
>
> On a different note I would like to see one thing in csound, a  
> better and easier framework for GUI design. I find the FLTK opcodes  
> too tricky and some very important features like file browser or a  
> real time table editor and a selectable waveform viewer are missing,  
> besides the FLTK stuff doesn't work as it should on Leopard with the  
> current tiger build of csound. Supercollider has an amazing set of  
> objects for GUI design. At the moment I am using max to design GUIs  
> for my csound instruments but not everyone can afford max.
>
> Again I love csladspa but I would love to be able to build csound  
> [AU] plugins on the mac with fancy-ish GUIs (GUI design is minimal  
> with csladspa as ladspa pluigins don't support elaborate GUIs). This  
> is possible with pluggo and max/msp but unfortunately Cycling74 is  
> no longer continuing the development of pluggo (this has been  
> officially announced) in max5 which means it is no longer worth  
> designing pluggo plugins as no one will be using max 4 in the near  
> future.
>
> Thanks
> Peiman
>
>
>
> 2009/7/5 Jason Adams 
> First off let me say that i'm new to this world (lovin' it, but  
> still new), but i think the biggest thing that is/was standing in  
> the way for myself to really dig in was the translation.  It was  
> figuring out what the heck a "modified hyperbolic tangent  
> distortion" is in laymans terms... (which is somewhat like a  
> morphable distortion from soft clipping to hard clipping, in musical  
> terms)  although the manual is amazing in that distort1 is exactly  
> what it says, a "modified hyperbolic tangent distortion".  i laughed  
> at a few of the definitions right off the bat, even thought they are  
> spot on, i had to translate the technical, exact definition into  
> musical language that i understand.
>
> i think mike has some good suggestions... practical, building block  
> toots, for those who can't afford/have-access-to the Csound book.  - 
> using Csound with sequencers/DAWs, that would be amazing... i'm  
> currently trying to figure how to pipe audio from max into Csound to  
> do live granular/chopping/mayhem/resonating-Lanksy-style electric  
> bass performance stuff and it's been a realy pain (i had little idea  
> of where to start).
>
> this said, as a newb... i can't believe not only how active the  
> community is (my inbox is constantly full) but also how interested  
> you cats are in bring Csound to the masses while at the same time  
> figuring out uber-geeky ways of making this program better (perhaps  
> why i have come to really like this community... ah, the comfort in  
> discovering like-minded individuals).
>
> best of luck in this... there is any way i could be of service my  
> email is available... heck, here it is... jadams1@berklee.net
>
> ciao
> jAdams
> ---------------------------------------
> Original E-mail
> From: Mike Moser-Booth 
> Date: 07/05/2009 12:23 AM
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: How to make Csound more user-friendly
>
>
> I definitely agree that a sort of practical guide would go a long  
> way to help new users of Csound. I think it might be worth taking a  
> look at what other music programming environments have done in this  
> area. Max/MSP and Pd immediately come to mind here. They both come  
> with fairly extensive tutorials that start with the most basic  
> "Hello World" patches and work their way up to more complicated  
> techniques in a logical progression. Not only are the techniques  
> practical themselves, but they are made more so by the fact  
> information from preceding tutorials are applicable to later  
> tutorials, thus making concepts that may initially seem out of reach  
> more accessible. I know that seems elementary, but it seems to be  
> lacking quite a bit in Csound world. So many tutorials are scattered  
> in different sources and often assume a prior knowledge that one  
> must search elsewhere to find. Dr. B's TOOTS are the only thing that  
> immediately comes to mind that even comes close to fulfilling this  
> paradigm, as they address the absolute beginner and build up from  
> there.
>
> I would be very willing to contribute to a project like this. Just a  
> couple of things I would add to your list, Joachim, off the top of  
> my head:
> -using Csound in conjunction with sequencers/DAWs
> -a general "Using the Command Line" tutorial, as most people these  
> days simply don't use it and don't have a clue
>
> .mmb
>
> joachim heintz wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to discuss this more in detail. I'd appreciate if we could  
>> define some subjects/ projects: what must be done to improve the  
>> user-friendlyness of Csound, and how can it be done? If there is a  
>> consensus about some points, we could perhaps have some groups of  
>> people who are willing to contribute to a certain issue.
>>
>> To begin with my own opinion: I'd like to have something like a  
>> practical guide (and contribute to it) to the different approaches  
>> of Csound. There should be good examples with rather short  
>> explanations to the different chapters of Csound, including
>> - general configuration
>> - working with live input
>> - working with MIDI
>> - loop constructions and event management
>> - classical sound synthesis
>> - granular synthesis
>> - spectral processing
>> - working with the API
>> - using Csound and the utilities with Shell Scripts
>> - and and and ...
>>
>> The goal of this practical guide would be:
>> 1) to collect the most important informations about the different  
>> ways of using Csound (for example, "what you should know about  
>> commandline flags", "what you should know when you work with MIDI  
>> input")
>> 2) to give hints about which opcodes can be used for the different  
>> approaches, uncluding some kind of selection (for example, the pvs  
>> opcodes are actually replacing some older opcodes, or poscil can be  
>> used instead of oscil also for non-power-of-two function tables)
>> 3) to show a rich collection of good examples: good in programming,  
>> with interesting musical results.
>>
>> What others think about this? And are there other items, perhaps  
>> more necessary?
>>
>>     joachim
>>
>>
>> Am 29.06.2009 um 00:51 schrieb Jacob Joaquin:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Csound is not user-friendly.  If developers and others in the  
>>> community spent
>>> a full year working towards improving the user-experience, while  
>>> putting on
>>> hold everything else Csound related, this would be time well  
>>> spent.  People
>>> are easily turned off the number of hoops they have to jump  
>>> through -
>>> whether its issues with Python, or just rendering a file.  Csound is
>>> supposed to be an instrument of musical expression, not a  
>>> technical hurdle.
>>>
>>> In my humble opinion.  :)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>
>

Hi,

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 8:14 AM, peiman khosravi wrote:
> Hi,
> Yes I love QuteCsound and blue as front-ends but I was thinking that csound
> itself should include opcodes that can be hardcoded in the score and are
> platform independent (like the FLTK). In his way GUIs can be designed in
> such a way that even someone not knowing anything about csound can use them
> (like cecilia) without requiring extra

QuteCsound is crossplatform (and a frontend like cecilia...). The
widgets are not part of the score, but they are part of the csd file,
even though QuteCsound hides this part.

> front-ends. Maybe even a utility for easily designing FLTK GUIs is
> sufficient + we badly need a line/table editor, a file browser and a
> selectable waveform viewer they are also missing in QuteCsound (this is not
> a complain I think QuteCsound is great and I'm sure Andres will add these
> features at some point).

The only bad complaint is a silent complaint... =) There's no
line/table editor yet, as I'm not sure how viable it is as everytime
the table is changed, the whole table (or a large part of it) must be
passed to Csound which may be too expensive.

The other two are already available, you can browse files using the
_Browse channels (seems hacky, but I'm still trying to stay somewhat
compatible with MacCsound), see the . You can view the ftables with
the graph widget (which will also show the output of dispftt and
display).

Cheers,
Andrés

> Best
> Peiman
> 2009/7/5 joachim heintz 
>>
>> Hi Peiman -
>>
>> as to the GUI: did you try QuteCsound? For me it's exactly what you
>> request (and what I was looking for before Andrés did it). Or what is
>> different in SC's GUI objects?
>>
>> Ciao -
>>        joachim
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 05.07.2009 um 11:32 schrieb peiman khosravi:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Are you using csound~ external inside max?
>>>
>>> On a different note I would like to see one thing in csound, a better and
>>> easier framework for GUI design. I find the FLTK opcodes too tricky and some
>>> very important features like file browser or a real time table editor and a
>>> selectable waveform viewer are missing, besides the FLTK stuff doesn't work
>>> as it should on Leopard with the current tiger build of csound.
>>> Supercollider has an amazing set of objects for GUI design. At the moment I
>>> am using max to design GUIs for my csound instruments but not everyone can
>>> afford max.
>>>
>>> Again I love csladspa but I would love to be able to build csound [AU]
>>> plugins on the mac with fancy-ish GUIs (GUI design is minimal with csladspa
>>> as ladspa pluigins don't support elaborate GUIs). This is possible with
>>> pluggo and max/msp but unfortunately Cycling74 is no longer continuing the
>>> development of pluggo (this has been officially announced) in max5 which
>>> means it is no longer worth designing pluggo plugins as no one will be using
>>> max 4 in the near future.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Peiman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/7/5 Jason Adams 
>>> First off let me say that i'm new to this world (lovin' it, but still
>>> new), but i think the biggest thing that is/was standing in the way for
>>> myself to really dig in was the translation.  It was figuring out what the
>>> heck a "modified hyperbolic tangent distortion" is in laymans terms...
>>> (which is somewhat like a morphable distortion from soft clipping to hard
>>> clipping, in musical terms)  although the manual is amazing in that distort1
>>> is exactly what it says, a "modified hyperbolic tangent distortion".  i
>>> laughed at a few of the definitions right off the bat, even thought they are
>>> spot on, i had to translate the technical, exact definition into musical
>>> language that i understand.
>>>
>>> i think mike has some good suggestions... practical, building block
>>> toots, for those who can't afford/have-access-to the Csound book.  -using
>>> Csound with sequencers/DAWs, that would be amazing... i'm currently trying
>>> to figure how to pipe audio from max into Csound to do live
>>> granular/chopping/mayhem/resonating-Lanksy-style electric bass performance
>>> stuff and it's been a realy pain (i had little idea of where to start).
>>>
>>> this said, as a newb... i can't believe not only how active the community
>>> is (my inbox is constantly full) but also how interested you cats are in
>>> bring Csound to the masses while at the same time figuring out uber-geeky
>>> ways of making this program better (perhaps why i have come to really like
>>> this community... ah, the comfort in discovering like-minded individuals).
>>>
>>> best of luck in this... there is any way i could be of service my email
>>> is available... heck, here it is... jadams1@berklee.net
>>>
>>> ciao
>>> jAdams
>>> ---------------------------------------
>>> Original E-mail
>>> From: Mike Moser-Booth 
>>> Date: 07/05/2009 12:23 AM
>>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: How to make Csound more user-friendly
>>>
>>>
>>> I definitely agree that a sort of practical guide would go a long way to
>>> help new users of Csound. I think it might be worth taking a look at what
>>> other music programming environments have done in this area. Max/MSP and Pd
>>> immediately come to mind here. They both come with fairly extensive
>>> tutorials that start with the most basic "Hello World" patches and work
>>> their way up to more complicated techniques in a logical progression. Not
>>> only are the techniques practical themselves, but they are made more so by
>>> the fact information from preceding tutorials are applicable to later
>>> tutorials, thus making concepts that may initially seem out of reach more
>>> accessible. I know that seems elementary, but it seems to be lacking quite a
>>> bit in Csound world. So many tutorials are scattered in different sources
>>> and often assume a prior knowledge that one must search elsewhere to find.
>>> Dr. B's TOOTS are the only thing that immediately comes to mind that even
>>> comes close to fulfilling this paradigm, as they address the absolute
>>> beginner and build up from there.
>>>
>>> I would be very willing to contribute to a project like this. Just a
>>> couple of things I would add to your list, Joachim, off the top of my head:
>>> -using Csound in conjunction with sequencers/DAWs
>>> -a general "Using the Command Line" tutorial, as most people these days
>>> simply don't use it and don't have a clue
>>>
>>> .mmb
>>>
>>> joachim heintz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to discuss this more in detail. I'd appreciate if we could
>>>> define some subjects/ projects: what must be done to improve the
>>>> user-friendlyness of Csound, and how can it be done? If there is a consensus
>>>> about some points, we could perhaps have some groups of people who are
>>>> willing to contribute to a certain issue.
>>>>
>>>> To begin with my own opinion: I'd like to have something like a
>>>> practical guide (and contribute to it) to the different approaches of
>>>> Csound. There should be good examples with rather short explanations to the
>>>> different chapters of Csound, including
>>>> - general configuration
>>>> - working with live input
>>>> - working with MIDI
>>>> - loop constructions and event management
>>>> - classical sound synthesis
>>>> - granular synthesis
>>>> - spectral processing
>>>> - working with the API
>>>> - using Csound and the utilities with Shell Scripts
>>>> - and and and ...
>>>>
>>>> The goal of this practical guide would be:
>>>> 1) to collect the most important informations about the different ways
>>>> of using Csound (for example, "what you should know about commandline
>>>> flags", "what you should know when you work with MIDI input")
>>>> 2) to give hints about which opcodes can be used for the different
>>>> approaches, uncluding some kind of selection (for example, the pvs opcodes
>>>> are actually replacing some older opcodes, or poscil can be used instead of
>>>> oscil also for non-power-of-two function tables)
>>>> 3) to show a rich collection of good examples: good in programming, with
>>>> interesting musical results.
>>>>
>>>> What others think about this? And are there other items, perhaps more
>>>> necessary?
>>>>
>>>>    joachim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 29.06.2009 um 00:51 schrieb Jacob Joaquin:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound is not user-friendly.  If developers and others in the community
>>>>> spent
>>>>> a full year working towards improving the user-experience, while
>>>>> putting on
>>>>> hold everything else Csound related, this would be time well spent.
>>>>>  People
>>>>> are easily turned off the number of hoops they have to jump through -
>>>>> whether its issues with Python, or just rendering a file.  Csound is
>>>>> supposed to be an instrument of musical expression, not a technical
>>>>> hurdle.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my humble opinion.  :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>



-- 


Andrés

Andres,

It is a wonderful front-end ... and it keeps getting better all the  
time.  An amazing piece of work.
The fact that it is cross-platform now (i was using it on the PC this  
evening running XP)...

also wonderful.

Looking forward to your continued improvements.

For sure it needs to be included with the PC builds - and distributed  
with Csound (so that it
is there waiting for the beginner - the minute they install Csound.   
Absolutely love that
it has so many wonderful examples built in too.

-dB


On Jul 5, 2009, at 10:35 PM, Andres Cabrera wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 8:14 AM, peiman khosravi > wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Yes I love QuteCsound and blue as front-ends but I was thinking  
>> that csound
>> itself should include opcodes that can be hardcoded in the score  
>> and are
>> platform independent (like the FLTK). In his way GUIs can be  
>> designed in
>> such a way that even someone not knowing anything about csound can  
>> use them
>> (like cecilia) without requiring extra
>
> QuteCsound is crossplatform (and a frontend like cecilia...). The
> widgets are not part of the score, but they are part of the csd file,
> even though QuteCsound hides this part.
>
>> front-ends. Maybe even a utility for easily designing FLTK GUIs is
>> sufficient + we badly need a line/table editor, a file browser and a
>> selectable waveform viewer they are also missing in QuteCsound  
>> (this is not
>> a complain I think QuteCsound is great and I'm sure Andres will add  
>> these
>> features at some point).
>
> The only bad complaint is a silent complaint... =) There's no
> line/table editor yet, as I'm not sure how viable it is as everytime
> the table is changed, the whole table (or a large part of it) must be
> passed to Csound which may be too expensive.
>
> The other two are already available, you can browse files using the
> _Browse channels (seems hacky, but I'm still trying to stay somewhat
> compatible with MacCsound), see the . You can view the ftables with
> the graph widget (which will also show the output of dispftt and
> display).
>
> Cheers,
> Andrés
>
>> Best
>> Peiman
>> 2009/7/5 joachim heintz 
>>>
>>> Hi Peiman -
>>>
>>> as to the GUI: did you try QuteCsound? For me it's exactly what you
>>> request (and what I was looking for before Andrés did it). Or what  
>>> is
>>> different in SC's GUI objects?
>>>
>>> Ciao -
>>>        joachim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 05.07.2009 um 11:32 schrieb peiman khosravi:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Are you using csound~ external inside max?
>>>>
>>>> On a different note I would like to see one thing in csound, a  
>>>> better and
>>>> easier framework for GUI design. I find the FLTK opcodes too  
>>>> tricky and some
>>>> very important features like file browser or a real time table  
>>>> editor and a
>>>> selectable waveform viewer are missing, besides the FLTK stuff  
>>>> doesn't work
>>>> as it should on Leopard with the current tiger build of csound.
>>>> Supercollider has an amazing set of objects for GUI design. At  
>>>> the moment I
>>>> am using max to design GUIs for my csound instruments but not  
>>>> everyone can
>>>> afford max.
>>>>
>>>> Again I love csladspa but I would love to be able to build csound  
>>>> [AU]
>>>> plugins on the mac with fancy-ish GUIs (GUI design is minimal  
>>>> with csladspa
>>>> as ladspa pluigins don't support elaborate GUIs). This is  
>>>> possible with
>>>> pluggo and max/msp but unfortunately Cycling74 is no longer  
>>>> continuing the
>>>> development of pluggo (this has been officially announced) in  
>>>> max5 which
>>>> means it is no longer worth designing pluggo plugins as no one  
>>>> will be using
>>>> max 4 in the near future.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Peiman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2009/7/5 Jason Adams 
>>>> First off let me say that i'm new to this world (lovin' it, but  
>>>> still
>>>> new), but i think the biggest thing that is/was standing in the  
>>>> way for
>>>> myself to really dig in was the translation.  It was figuring out  
>>>> what the
>>>> heck a "modified hyperbolic tangent distortion" is in laymans  
>>>> terms...
>>>> (which is somewhat like a morphable distortion from soft clipping  
>>>> to hard
>>>> clipping, in musical terms)  although the manual is amazing in  
>>>> that distort1
>>>> is exactly what it says, a "modified hyperbolic tangent  
>>>> distortion".  i
>>>> laughed at a few of the definitions right off the bat, even  
>>>> thought they are
>>>> spot on, i had to translate the technical, exact definition into  
>>>> musical
>>>> language that i understand.
>>>>
>>>> i think mike has some good suggestions... practical, building block
>>>> toots, for those who can't afford/have-access-to the Csound  
>>>> book.  -using
>>>> Csound with sequencers/DAWs, that would be amazing... i'm  
>>>> currently trying
>>>> to figure how to pipe audio from max into Csound to do live
>>>> granular/chopping/mayhem/resonating-Lanksy-style electric bass  
>>>> performance
>>>> stuff and it's been a realy pain (i had little idea of where to  
>>>> start).
>>>>
>>>> this said, as a newb... i can't believe not only how active the  
>>>> community
>>>> is (my inbox is constantly full) but also how interested you cats  
>>>> are in
>>>> bring Csound to the masses while at the same time figuring out  
>>>> uber-geeky
>>>> ways of making this program better (perhaps why i have come to  
>>>> really like
>>>> this community... ah, the comfort in discovering like-minded  
>>>> individuals).
>>>>
>>>> best of luck in this... there is any way i could be of service my  
>>>> email
>>>> is available... heck, here it is... jadams1@berklee.net
>>>>
>>>> ciao
>>>> jAdams
>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>> Original E-mail
>>>> From: Mike Moser-Booth 
>>>> Date: 07/05/2009 12:23 AM
>>>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: How to make Csound more user-friendly
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I definitely agree that a sort of practical guide would go a long  
>>>> way to
>>>> help new users of Csound. I think it might be worth taking a look  
>>>> at what
>>>> other music programming environments have done in this area. Max/ 
>>>> MSP and Pd
>>>> immediately come to mind here. They both come with fairly extensive
>>>> tutorials that start with the most basic "Hello World" patches  
>>>> and work
>>>> their way up to more complicated techniques in a logical  
>>>> progression. Not
>>>> only are the techniques practical themselves, but they are made  
>>>> more so by
>>>> the fact information from preceding tutorials are applicable to  
>>>> later
>>>> tutorials, thus making concepts that may initially seem out of  
>>>> reach more
>>>> accessible. I know that seems elementary, but it seems to be  
>>>> lacking quite a
>>>> bit in Csound world. So many tutorials are scattered in different  
>>>> sources
>>>> and often assume a prior knowledge that one must search elsewhere  
>>>> to find.
>>>> Dr. B's TOOTS are the only thing that immediately comes to mind  
>>>> that even
>>>> comes close to fulfilling this paradigm, as they address the  
>>>> absolute
>>>> beginner and build up from there.
>>>>
>>>> I would be very willing to contribute to a project like this.  
>>>> Just a
>>>> couple of things I would add to your list, Joachim, off the top  
>>>> of my head:
>>>> -using Csound in conjunction with sequencers/DAWs
>>>> -a general "Using the Command Line" tutorial, as most people  
>>>> these days
>>>> simply don't use it and don't have a clue
>>>>
>>>> .mmb
>>>>
>>>> joachim heintz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to discuss this more in detail. I'd appreciate if we  
>>>>> could
>>>>> define some subjects/ projects: what must be done to improve the
>>>>> user-friendlyness of Csound, and how can it be done? If there is  
>>>>> a consensus
>>>>> about some points, we could perhaps have some groups of people  
>>>>> who are
>>>>> willing to contribute to a certain issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> To begin with my own opinion: I'd like to have something like a
>>>>> practical guide (and contribute to it) to the different  
>>>>> approaches of
>>>>> Csound. There should be good examples with rather short  
>>>>> explanations to the
>>>>> different chapters of Csound, including
>>>>> - general configuration
>>>>> - working with live input
>>>>> - working with MIDI
>>>>> - loop constructions and event management
>>>>> - classical sound synthesis
>>>>> - granular synthesis
>>>>> - spectral processing
>>>>> - working with the API
>>>>> - using Csound and the utilities with Shell Scripts
>>>>> - and and and ...
>>>>>
>>>>> The goal of this practical guide would be:
>>>>> 1) to collect the most important informations about the  
>>>>> different ways
>>>>> of using Csound (for example, "what you should know about  
>>>>> commandline
>>>>> flags", "what you should know when you work with MIDI input")
>>>>> 2) to give hints about which opcodes can be used for the different
>>>>> approaches, uncluding some kind of selection (for example, the  
>>>>> pvs opcodes
>>>>> are actually replacing some older opcodes, or poscil can be used  
>>>>> instead of
>>>>> oscil also for non-power-of-two function tables)
>>>>> 3) to show a rich collection of good examples: good in  
>>>>> programming, with
>>>>> interesting musical results.
>>>>>
>>>>> What others think about this? And are there other items, perhaps  
>>>>> more
>>>>> necessary?
>>>>>
>>>>>    joachim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 29.06.2009 um 00:51 schrieb Jacob Joaquin:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Csound is not user-friendly.  If developers and others in the  
>>>>>> community
>>>>>> spent
>>>>>> a full year working towards improving the user-experience, while
>>>>>> putting on
>>>>>> hold everything else Csound related, this would be time well  
>>>>>> spent.
>>>>>>  People
>>>>>> are easily turned off the number of hoops they have to jump  
>>>>>> through -
>>>>>> whether its issues with Python, or just rendering a file.   
>>>>>> Csound is
>>>>>> supposed to be an instrument of musical expression, not a  
>>>>>> technical
>>>>>> hurdle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my humble opinion.  :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>> "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
> Andrés
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"