[Csnd] building csound into Chrome OS
Date | 2009-07-08 18:15 |
From | Brian Redfern |
Subject | [Csnd] building csound into Chrome OS |
Google just announced the development of a Linux-based "Chrome OS," now if it were only going to be an in-house Google development it wouldn't be so exciting. But they plan on having community development as part of the process. It seems like a great opportunity to take the same kind of approach to sound that you have on the OLPC, where csound could be used as a standard audio/synthesis engine. I'm certain Google hasn't thought of this, but because they plan to open the development up to the whole Linux community it might be possible to carry over the same kind of idea that was started in OLPC into an os for generalized netbook use. |
Date | 2009-07-08 21:02 |
From | "'2+" |
Subject | [Csnd] Re: building csound into Chrome OS |
hmm android, chrome-os, native-client... a custom python script written for csound might be good on anywhere but i wonder where csound should actually run on would olpc-like mean something like browser > native-client(python) > local-csound i thought chrome-os is about their cloud so browser > google-appsengine(python) > csound@google's-server or maybe that http://dream.cs.bath.ac.uk/netcsound/ is always enough? i kinda think so but .. yes web-interactive with gui-funs can be somethang a competitent to twitter by google based on csound that will result into a frequently automatically episode-updated podcast of algo-comps something like a gui-communication2sound stream is what i'd expect oh skype-like direct sound in the track might turn the whole thang esperanto! btw what's android(local-java-apps) after all? anyway chrome-os definately sounds csound friendly than android .. and that's nice On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Brian Redfern |
Date | 2009-07-08 21:09 |
From | Brian Redfern |
Subject | [Csnd] Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS |
Android only allows java coding, they did have it open to native code on sdk 1.0 but have since closed that down. Also its only for cell phones, so its likely just too limited for something like csound. But if Chrome OS allows for native linux code then it might be possible to port over OLPC version of csound, or create a cut-down version minus python for Chrome OS. There's no reason why it couldn't be done. I don't think Google knows about the importance of enabling content creation on netbooks. Without it, its just a consumer device. This is why the OLPC is so great, its not just a limited consumer device, its a full on creative platform on super cheap hardware. They should have python on Chrome OS. I think it will be a failure if they make it a consumer only device. They should seriously be looking at what the OLPC can do, its both a lightweight inexpensive device, but also supports creative computing. However OLPC is for kids. I'd love to have something like it that is built for "grownups," maybe it can't run the Gimp, but maybe the Gimp could be ported over over. I think it will fail to beat MS if they don't look at how to support creative computing and not just create some brain dead consumer device. On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:02 PM, '2+ |
Date | 2009-07-08 21:16 |
From | Steven Yi |
Subject | [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS |
Well in Android, they just reopened native code in SDK 1.5 with their new NDK (Native Development Kit), but it's pretty much JNI with just a few libraries available (libm, libc, maybe one or two others), so not yet enough for Csound. As for browsers, I was thinking that it might be useful to try using Java Plugin with csnd.jar. One thing that is a concern is loading opcode libs. I am thinking it would be worth revisiting the idea to collapse back into csound all opcodes that do not have external dependencies on other libs. It would certainly make this kind of thing easier. On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Brian Redfern |
Date | 2009-07-09 04:30 |
From | David Akbari |
Subject | [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS |
Possible, but not practical. Currently it seems that Csound and Python are too inseparably intertwined to make this practical, with the current build system. Your best bet with their Chrome OS is to make use of the online Csound rendering capability that has been graciously kept alive by John ffitch. http://dream.cs.bath.ac.uk/netcsound/ -David |
Date | 2009-07-09 07:12 |
From | Brian Redfern |
Subject | [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS |
Well if the OLPC can have both python and csound together I don't know why they couldn't be ported to the Chrome OS. But since its essentially vaporware at the moment there's no way to know until a developer edition gets open sourced, which may not be for another year. The main point is that they need to look at Sugar if they want to beat MS. The reason why Windows is popular on netbooks is not just because of the familiarity. Its that you have to be a hacker to put a usable OS on a netbook. People don't just want to be consumers, a lot of people would like to record sound or edit images. For Chrome to really take on MS it has to enable creative computing. With windows XP on a netbook or windows 7 you might not be running adobe photoshop, but you could run Inkscape for windows or audacity for windows. The mistake with the EEEPc version of Linux is that it is too limited and too hard for ordinary people to do creative tasks. Sugar on my OLPC is really slow, but it does enable me to write csound music on a netbook. There's no reason why Chrome OS couldn't enable creative computing, but there is an assumption on the part of creators of things like Mobilelin, Chrome OS, etc... that ordinary people just want to surf the web and consume data and maybe just want to only edit office documents. It might be possible to take something like Chrome OS and tweek it for a multimedia appliance as some people have done with 64Studio. On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:30 PM, David Akbari |
Date | 2009-07-09 21:21 |
From | "'2+" |
Subject | [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS |
a bit too far ot but what about csound.js? i once ran into somethang like this: http://sk89q.therisenrealm.com/playground/jswav/ for a slow small thang i think it's cute and the structure is simple we don't even need a cloud nor a local-app to genarate a sound just a browser actually am gradually shifting myself to general language oriented i mean algo-comp2wav directly by python (no csound) just takin care of what i calc for each sample i think i'll also work on osillator.hs (which is just a design of algo-comped-value goin up'n'down) and take adbantage of its stdout from various languages am not serious about js at this moment but if js and html>5 and chrome-os is a way to go cheap 'n' minimal maybe that's another alternative? btw am interested in the rather minimal browser "uzbl" i'd like uzbluntu running on arm-y mobile device most of things via browser is nice but no reason at all to get rid of taking advantage of apt -- SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra is podcasting: http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml and supplying oil.py for free: http://oilpy.blogspot.com/ |
Date | 2009-07-09 22:27 |
From | Brian Redfern |
Subject | [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS |
Actually I think I was being totally deluded here. I think Google's goal is to run an OS where everything goes through the browser and basically no applications can run locally. So you'd have to run csound on a server to make it work, but even then you couldn't necessarily hear the results. Ultimately 64Studio or Fedora is a better platform to build a "csound machine," a small laptop like an EEEPc or other netbook that's tuned to run csound "right out of the box" like the OLPC, with front end applications that allow a non coder to start making music right away, like a grown-up version of Tam Tam. On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 1:21 PM, '2+ |
Date | 2009-07-09 22:33 |
From | Michael Gogins |
Subject | [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS |
I have an Acer Aspire One, 1 GM RAM 160 GB HD, Atom processor. Runs about 1/3 the speed of my Toshiba Qosmio, but is actually very useful, I carry it around all the time and make Csound music on it. My netbook uses the Eeebuntu distro of Ubuntu, which has a special kernel built for netbooks. I installed it over Windows XP and everything ran out of the box, including sound. Regards, Mike On 7/9/09, Brian Redfern |