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[Csnd] building csound into Chrome OS

Date2009-07-08 18:15
FromBrian Redfern
Subject[Csnd] building csound into Chrome OS
Google just announced the development of a Linux-based "Chrome OS,"
now if it were only going to be an in-house Google development it
wouldn't be so exciting. But they plan on having community development
as part of the process. It seems like a great opportunity to take the
same kind of approach to sound that you have on the OLPC, where csound
could be used as a standard audio/synthesis engine. I'm certain Google
hasn't thought of this, but because they plan to open the development
up to the whole Linux community it might be possible to carry over the
same kind of idea that was started in OLPC into an os for generalized
netbook use.

Date2009-07-08 21:02
From"'2+"
Subject[Csnd] Re: building csound into Chrome OS
hmm android, chrome-os, native-client...
a custom python script written for csound might be good on anywhere but
i wonder where csound should actually run on
would olpc-like mean something like
browser > native-client(python) > local-csound
i thought chrome-os is about their cloud so
browser > google-appsengine(python) > csound@google's-server
or maybe that
http://dream.cs.bath.ac.uk/netcsound/
is always enough?
i kinda think so but .. yes web-interactive with gui-funs can be somethang
a competitent to twitter by google based on csound
that will result into a frequently automatically episode-updated
podcast of algo-comps
something like a gui-communication2sound stream
is what i'd expect
oh skype-like direct sound in the track might turn the whole thang esperanto!

btw what's android(local-java-apps) after all?
anyway chrome-os definately sounds csound friendly than android .. and
that's nice

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Brian Redfern wrote:
> Google just announced the development of a Linux-based "Chrome OS,"
> now if it were only going to be an in-house Google development it
> wouldn't be so exciting. But they plan on having community development
> as part of the process. It seems like a great opportunity to take the
> same kind of approach to sound that you have on the OLPC, where csound
> could be used as a standard audio/synthesis engine. I'm certain Google
> hasn't thought of this, but because they plan to open the development
> up to the whole Linux community it might be possible to carry over the
> same kind of idea that was started in OLPC into an os for generalized
> netbook use.
>

-- 
SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
is podcasting:
http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml
and supplying oil.py for free:
http://oilpy.blogspot.com/

Date2009-07-08 21:09
FromBrian Redfern
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS
Android only allows java coding, they did have it open to native code
on sdk 1.0 but have since closed that down. Also its only for cell
phones, so its likely just too limited for something like csound. But
if Chrome OS allows for native linux code then it might be possible to
port over OLPC version of csound, or create a cut-down version minus
python for Chrome OS.

There's no reason why it couldn't be done. I don't think Google knows
about the importance of enabling content creation on netbooks. Without
it, its just a consumer device. This is why the OLPC is so great, its
not just a limited consumer device, its a full on creative platform on
super cheap hardware.

They should have python on Chrome OS. I think it will be a failure if
they make it a consumer only device. They should seriously be looking
at what the OLPC can do, its both a lightweight inexpensive device,
but also supports creative computing.

However OLPC is for kids. I'd love to have something like it that is
built for "grownups," maybe it can't run the Gimp, but maybe the Gimp
could be ported over over. I think it will fail to beat MS if they
don't look at how to support creative computing and not just create
some brain dead consumer device.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:02 PM, '2+ wrote:
> hmm android, chrome-os, native-client...
> a custom python script written for csound might be good on anywhere but
> i wonder where csound should actually run on
> would olpc-like mean something like
> browser > native-client(python) > local-csound
> i thought chrome-os is about their cloud so
> browser > google-appsengine(python) > csound@google's-server
> or maybe that
> http://dream.cs.bath.ac.uk/netcsound/
> is always enough?
> i kinda think so but .. yes web-interactive with gui-funs can be somethang
> a competitent to twitter by google based on csound
> that will result into a frequently automatically episode-updated
> podcast of algo-comps
> something like a gui-communication2sound stream
> is what i'd expect
> oh skype-like direct sound in the track might turn the whole thang esperanto!
>
> btw what's android(local-java-apps) after all?
> anyway chrome-os definately sounds csound friendly than android .. and
> that's nice
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Brian Redfern wrote:
>> Google just announced the development of a Linux-based "Chrome OS,"
>> now if it were only going to be an in-house Google development it
>> wouldn't be so exciting. But they plan on having community development
>> as part of the process. It seems like a great opportunity to take the
>> same kind of approach to sound that you have on the OLPC, where csound
>> could be used as a standard audio/synthesis engine. I'm certain Google
>> hasn't thought of this, but because they plan to open the development
>> up to the whole Linux community it might be possible to carry over the
>> same kind of idea that was started in OLPC into an os for generalized
>> netbook use.
>>
>
> --
> SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
> is podcasting:
> http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml
> and supplying oil.py for free:
> http://oilpy.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>

Date2009-07-08 21:16
FromSteven Yi
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS
Well in Android, they just reopened native code in SDK 1.5 with their
new NDK (Native Development Kit), but it's pretty much JNI with just a
few libraries available (libm, libc, maybe one or two others), so not
yet enough for Csound. As for browsers, I was thinking that it might
be useful to try using Java Plugin with csnd.jar.  One thing that is a
concern is loading opcode libs.  I am thinking it would be worth
revisiting the idea to collapse back into csound all opcodes that do
not have external dependencies on other libs.  It would certainly make
this kind of thing easier.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Brian Redfern wrote:
> Android only allows java coding, they did have it open to native code
> on sdk 1.0 but have since closed that down. Also its only for cell
> phones, so its likely just too limited for something like csound. But
> if Chrome OS allows for native linux code then it might be possible to
> port over OLPC version of csound, or create a cut-down version minus
> python for Chrome OS.
>
> There's no reason why it couldn't be done. I don't think Google knows
> about the importance of enabling content creation on netbooks. Without
> it, its just a consumer device. This is why the OLPC is so great, its
> not just a limited consumer device, its a full on creative platform on
> super cheap hardware.
>
> They should have python on Chrome OS. I think it will be a failure if
> they make it a consumer only device. They should seriously be looking
> at what the OLPC can do, its both a lightweight inexpensive device,
> but also supports creative computing.
>
> However OLPC is for kids. I'd love to have something like it that is
> built for "grownups," maybe it can't run the Gimp, but maybe the Gimp
> could be ported over over. I think it will fail to beat MS if they
> don't look at how to support creative computing and not just create
> some brain dead consumer device.
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:02 PM, '2+ wrote:
>> hmm android, chrome-os, native-client...
>> a custom python script written for csound might be good on anywhere but
>> i wonder where csound should actually run on
>> would olpc-like mean something like
>> browser > native-client(python) > local-csound
>> i thought chrome-os is about their cloud so
>> browser > google-appsengine(python) > csound@google's-server
>> or maybe that
>> http://dream.cs.bath.ac.uk/netcsound/
>> is always enough?
>> i kinda think so but .. yes web-interactive with gui-funs can be somethang
>> a competitent to twitter by google based on csound
>> that will result into a frequently automatically episode-updated
>> podcast of algo-comps
>> something like a gui-communication2sound stream
>> is what i'd expect
>> oh skype-like direct sound in the track might turn the whole thang esperanto!
>>
>> btw what's android(local-java-apps) after all?
>> anyway chrome-os definately sounds csound friendly than android .. and
>> that's nice
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Brian Redfern wrote:
>>> Google just announced the development of a Linux-based "Chrome OS,"
>>> now if it were only going to be an in-house Google development it
>>> wouldn't be so exciting. But they plan on having community development
>>> as part of the process. It seems like a great opportunity to take the
>>> same kind of approach to sound that you have on the OLPC, where csound
>>> could be used as a standard audio/synthesis engine. I'm certain Google
>>> hasn't thought of this, but because they plan to open the development
>>> up to the whole Linux community it might be possible to carry over the
>>> same kind of idea that was started in OLPC into an os for generalized
>>> netbook use.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
>> is podcasting:
>> http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml
>> and supplying oil.py for free:
>> http://oilpy.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>

Date2009-07-09 04:30
FromDavid Akbari
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS
Possible, but not practical.

Currently it seems that Csound and Python are too inseparably
intertwined to make this practical, with the current build system.

Your best bet with their Chrome OS is to make use of the online Csound
rendering capability that has been graciously kept alive by John
ffitch.

http://dream.cs.bath.ac.uk/netcsound/



-David

Date2009-07-09 07:12
FromBrian Redfern
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS
Well if the OLPC can have both python and csound together I don't know
why they couldn't be ported to the Chrome OS. But since its
essentially vaporware at the moment there's no way to know until a
developer edition gets open sourced, which may not be for another
year.

The main point is that they need to look at Sugar if they want to beat
MS. The reason why Windows is popular on netbooks is not just because
of the familiarity. Its that you have to be a hacker to put a usable
OS on a netbook. People don't just want to be consumers, a lot of
people would like to record sound or edit images. For Chrome to really
take on MS it has to enable creative computing. With windows XP on a
netbook or windows 7 you might not be running adobe photoshop, but you
could run Inkscape for windows or audacity for windows. The mistake
with the EEEPc version of Linux is that it is too limited and too hard
for ordinary people to do creative tasks.

Sugar on my OLPC is really slow, but it does enable me to write csound
music on a netbook. There's no reason why Chrome OS couldn't enable
creative computing, but there is an assumption on the part of creators
of things like Mobilelin, Chrome OS, etc... that ordinary people just
want to surf the web and consume data and maybe just want to only edit
office documents.

It might be possible to take something like Chrome OS and tweek it for
a multimedia appliance as some people have done with 64Studio.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:30 PM, David Akbari wrote:
> Possible, but not practical.
>
> Currently it seems that Csound and Python are too inseparably
> intertwined to make this practical, with the current build system.
>
> Your best bet with their Chrome OS is to make use of the online Csound
> rendering capability that has been graciously kept alive by John
> ffitch.
>
> http://dream.cs.bath.ac.uk/netcsound/
>
>
>
> -David
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>

Date2009-07-09 21:21
From"'2+"
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS
a bit too far ot but

what about csound.js?
i once ran into somethang like this:
http://sk89q.therisenrealm.com/playground/jswav/
for a slow small thang
i think it's cute and the structure is simple
we don't even need a cloud nor a local-app to genarate a sound
 just a browser

actually
am gradually shifting myself to general language oriented
i mean algo-comp2wav directly by python (no csound)
just takin care of what i calc for each sample
i think i'll also work on osillator.hs
(which is just a design of algo-comped-value goin up'n'down)
and take adbantage of its stdout from various languages

am not serious about js at this moment but
if js and html>5 and chrome-os is a way to go cheap 'n' minimal
maybe that's another alternative?

btw
am interested in the rather minimal browser "uzbl"
i'd like uzbluntu running on arm-y mobile device
most of things via browser is nice
but no reason at all to get rid of taking advantage of apt

-- 
SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
is podcasting:
http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml
and supplying oil.py for free:
http://oilpy.blogspot.com/

Date2009-07-09 22:27
FromBrian Redfern
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS
Actually I think I was being totally deluded here. I think Google's
goal is to run an OS where everything goes through the browser and
basically no applications can run locally. So you'd have to run csound
on a server to make it work, but even then you couldn't necessarily
hear the results.

Ultimately 64Studio or Fedora is a better platform to build a "csound
machine," a small laptop like an EEEPc or other netbook that's tuned
to run csound "right out of the box" like the OLPC, with front end
applications that allow a non coder to start making music right away,
like a grown-up version of Tam Tam.

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 1:21 PM, '2+ wrote:
> a bit too far ot but
>
> what about csound.js?
> i once ran into somethang like this:
> http://sk89q.therisenrealm.com/playground/jswav/
> for a slow small thang
> i think it's cute and the structure is simple
> we don't even need a cloud nor a local-app to genarate a sound
>  just a browser
>
> actually
> am gradually shifting myself to general language oriented
> i mean algo-comp2wav directly by python (no csound)
> just takin care of what i calc for each sample
> i think i'll also work on osillator.hs
> (which is just a design of algo-comped-value goin up'n'down)
> and take adbantage of its stdout from various languages
>
> am not serious about js at this moment but
> if js and html>5 and chrome-os is a way to go cheap 'n' minimal
> maybe that's another alternative?
>
> btw
> am interested in the rather minimal browser "uzbl"
> i'd like uzbluntu running on arm-y mobile device
> most of things via browser is nice
> but no reason at all to get rid of taking advantage of apt
>
> --
> SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
> is podcasting:
> http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml
> and supplying oil.py for free:
> http://oilpy.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>


Date2009-07-09 22:33
FromMichael Gogins
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: building csound into Chrome OS
I have an Acer Aspire One, 1 GM RAM 160 GB HD, Atom processor. Runs
about 1/3 the speed of my Toshiba Qosmio, but is actually very useful,
I carry it around all the time and make Csound music on it.

My netbook uses the Eeebuntu distro of Ubuntu, which has a special
kernel built for netbooks. I installed it over Windows XP and
everything ran out of the box, including sound.

Regards,
Mike

On 7/9/09, Brian Redfern  wrote:
> Actually I think I was being totally deluded here. I think Google's
> goal is to run an OS where everything goes through the browser and
> basically no applications can run locally. So you'd have to run csound
> on a server to make it work, but even then you couldn't necessarily
> hear the results.
>
> Ultimately 64Studio or Fedora is a better platform to build a "csound
> machine," a small laptop like an EEEPc or other netbook that's tuned
> to run csound "right out of the box" like the OLPC, with front end
> applications that allow a non coder to start making music right away,
> like a grown-up version of Tam Tam.
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 1:21 PM, '2+ wrote:
>> a bit too far ot but
>>
>> what about csound.js?
>> i once ran into somethang like this:
>> http://sk89q.therisenrealm.com/playground/jswav/
>> for a slow small thang
>> i think it's cute and the structure is simple
>> we don't even need a cloud nor a local-app to genarate a sound
>>  just a browser
>>
>> actually
>> am gradually shifting myself to general language oriented
>> i mean algo-comp2wav directly by python (no csound)
>> just takin care of what i calc for each sample
>> i think i'll also work on osillator.hs
>> (which is just a design of algo-comped-value goin up'n'down)
>> and take adbantage of its stdout from various languages
>>
>> am not serious about js at this moment but
>> if js and html>5 and chrome-os is a way to go cheap 'n' minimal
>> maybe that's another alternative?
>>
>> btw
>> am interested in the rather minimal browser "uzbl"
>> i'd like uzbluntu running on arm-y mobile device
>> most of things via browser is nice
>> but no reason at all to get rid of taking advantage of apt
>>
>> --
>> SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
>> is podcasting:
>> http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml
>> and supplying oil.py for free:
>> http://oilpy.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"


-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com