Yes,... much effort into Physical Modeling. Many audio companies do
that (including the one I work for, Line 6). Fetish-ism? Maybe,
maybe not. No more a fetish than anyone else specializing to such
a depth as to be obsessive in the eyes of some quarters. 

One man's generalism, is another man's fetish-ism. Like everthing 
in this universe, it's relative to your frame or point of reference.

Is that why Gradient Calculus was invented, to deal such difference 
levels? I guess I'll read Feynman again to make sure.

Enjoy, cheers,
-Partev



===================================================================



--- vip@avatar.com.au wrote:

From: DavidW 
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: [OT] Human speech is music to out ears
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:03:49 +1100

On 11/12/2009, at 12:05 AM, Peiman Khosravi wrote:

> I agree with most of what you say. But can you clarify this point? I  
> have never heard of timbre-fetishism.
>
> P
>
> On 10 Dec 2009, at 04:53, DavidW wrote:
>
>> most computer music composers seem to be still more enchanted by  
>> timbre-fetishisms than music per se.
>> Sigh,

A term I invented a few years ago to describe a kind of musical  
practice in which the effort and thus resulting interest is almost  
exclusively timbral.
For example, an enormous effort has gone into the building and  
tweaking of physical models to produce the sounds musical instruments  
make when activated by some dumb activator, but little effort in the  
building and tweaking of physical models to a gesturally rich sequence  
of activations of such models.
The underlying assumption is that the sound of the instrument is more  
important that the way it is played. Well that isn't the case in the  
acoustic instrumental music world, where an accomplished musician is  
evaluated primarily according to their "musicianship", not the  
complexity of their instrument.

It is this concentration on the synthesis of sounds synthesised from  
such models, and the almost exclusive ignoring of the temporal,  
gestural means of activating them , that I label "timbre-fetishism".

It's historical origins are in the European practices of dissolving  
melody and rhythm into "resonances" (late piano works of Liszt, 2nd  
Viennese School and the serialists etc.


David
________________________________________________
Dr David Worrall.
- Experimental Polymedia:	  worrall.avatar.com.au
- Sonification: www.sonifiction.com.au
- Education for Financial Independence: www.mindthemarkets.com.au








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_____________________________________________________________
Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.


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Hi Partev,

I see little point in arguing a case on the basis of a  
misinterpretation (unintended or otherwise) of what I wrote. Let me  
just say that I describe it as a fetish (of composers, sound designers  
etc - I couldn't care less what audio companies do) not because of the  
considerable effort etc that has/is being applied, but that this  
effort is disproportionate to the effort applied to the modelling of  
the _means_ of activation which in the physical world is at least as  
complex: a beater or bow in the hand of an intelligent feedback- 
sensitive being, for example. The 'fetish' label is not meant to imply  
any moral position. People can fetishise resonators all they like. I'm  
just  saying that such an obsession may be a distraction to the main  
goal, that of subtle expression.

David

On 16/12/2009, at 3:15 PM, Partev Barr Sarkissian wrote:

> Yes,... much effort into Physical Modeling. Many audio companies do
> that (including the one I work for, Line 6). Fetish-ism? Maybe,
> maybe not. No more a fetish than anyone else specializing to such
> a depth as to be obsessive in the eyes of some quarters.
>
> One man's generalism, is another man's fetish-ism. Like everthing
> in this universe, it's relative to your frame or point of reference.
>
> Is that why Gradient Calculus was invented, to deal such difference
> levels? I guess I'll read Feynman again to make sure.
>
> Enjoy, cheers,
> -Partev
>
>
>
> ===================================================================
>
>
>
> --- vip@avatar.com.au wrote:
>
> From: DavidW 
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: [OT] Human speech is music to out ears
> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:03:49 +1100
>
> On 11/12/2009, at 12:05 AM, Peiman Khosravi wrote:
>
>> I agree with most of what you say. But can you clarify this point? I
>> have never heard of timbre-fetishism.
>>
>> P
>>
>> On 10 Dec 2009, at 04:53, DavidW wrote:
>>
>>> most computer music composers seem to be still more enchanted by
>>> timbre-fetishisms than music per se.
>>> Sigh,
>
> A term I invented a few years ago to describe a kind of musical
> practice in which the effort and thus resulting interest is almost
> exclusively timbral.
> For example, an enormous effort has gone into the building and
> tweaking of physical models to produce the sounds musical instruments
> make when activated by some dumb activator, but little effort in the
> building and tweaking of physical models to a gesturally rich sequence
> of activations of such models.
> The underlying assumption is that the sound of the instrument is more
> important that the way it is played. Well that isn't the case in the
> acoustic instrumental music world, where an accomplished musician is
> evaluated primarily according to their "musicianship", not the
> complexity of their instrument.
>
> It is this concentration on the synthesis of sounds synthesised from
> such models, and the almost exclusive ignoring of the temporal,
> gestural means of activating them , that I label "timbre-fetishism".
>
> It's historical origins are in the European practices of dissolving
> melody and rhythm into "resonances" (late piano works of Liszt, 2nd
> Viennese School and the serialists etc.
>
...

________________________________________________
Dr David Worrall.
- Experimental Polymedia:	  worrall.avatar.com.au
- Sonification: www.sonifiction.com.au
- Education for Financial Independence: www.mindthemarkets.com.au








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> it could hardly be denied that precisely 
> under the fascist whip of 12-tET that timbre as Ding-an-sich has 
> riotously bloomed.

Godwin point reached :)


Stef




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