The question is too simple and probably is meant to arouse discussion.

It depends. Regarding the individual chord many tunings would sound
"good" and you can use Scala or something to hear them. But of course
chords have meaning mainly in context, and in addition to the harmonic
context (scale, mode, progression, voicing) instrumentation and
tessitura also deeply affect how chords are heard. It even is possible
to use timbres that do not have harmonic partials and with which
completely different tuning systems, neither equally tempered nor
Pythagorean, can be used.

Even the space in which an isolated chord is heard will deeply affect
the sound of the chord -- more or less echo or reverb, background
noise, etc.

If you are not asking the question to arouse discussion, then I wonder
if you would not be better off asking your compositional questions on
a different level, less about individual objects in music and more
about the spirit, feeling, or historical context that you are working
in.

Regards,
Mike

On 12/24/09, cameron bobro  wrote:
> --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Pablo Frank  wrote:
>
>
> sound ratios: 1, 5/4, 3/2
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This is the "all-time classic", the smoothest possible as far as beating.
> Detuning the third a cent or two is arguably just as smooth and more
> pleasant because this will create a very slow and creamy beating. Personally
> I find the most pleasant "major" triads to be sonorities that hardly qualify
> as "major", such as using a 26/21 frequency for the third. Obviously the
> beating is far greater than that of a 5/4, but the exceedly soft feel of the
> third, almost a neutral third, is what gives the "pleasant" character to my
> ears.
>
> Another conception of "pleasant" is "bright and cheerfull". IME the very
> high "major third" of 14/11 freq. ratio is a great candidate for this.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"


-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


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The question is too simple and probably is meant to arouse discussion.

Context is almost always helpful.

You have to be careful with your ears. Get a dB meter - if you have an
iPhone or Android phone you can get a dB meter app. Don't let constant
sounds be louder than about 80 dB.

Insulate the room acoustically if you can, that's always best.

If the sound is not too loud, try masking it with noise, white noise
or surf or something.

If you try with a chord, make a recording of the noise, look at a
sonogram with Audacity or something, then make your chord mask the
exact frequencies if they themselves do not beat. If they do, you are
going to have a hard time.

Hope this helps,
Mike

On 12/24/09, Michael Mossey  wrote:
> On 12/24/2009 7:34 AM, Michael Gogins wrote:
>> The question is too simple and probably is meant to arouse discussion.
>>
>
> Hello Michael and list,
>
> I meant the question in sincerity but didn't realize that omitting my
> context would confuse the matter.
>
> The question is really about leaf blowers.
>
> Every Tuesday morning the gardeners show up outside my apartment while I
> am still trying to sleep. Well, that was no problem until recently. I
> used earplugs and some pink noise cover.
>
> Well, recently one of their leaf-blowers developed a bad bearing and
> whines like heck. It is so piercing that earplugs cannot cover it. If
> you are thinking, "Okay, so tell the guy to fix his leaf blower," you do
> not realize that (1) the guy speaks no significant English, (2) he
> thinks it's amusing that anyone would complain a leaf-blower is
> loud--"duh, of course they are loud" was his attitude (3) he doesn't
> know who he works for, etc. etc.
>
> So I thought that I would try making cover noise with pitched tones. I
> started with a complex chord playing from my speakers, and then wore
> earplugs too. Well, the beating in the chord was harsh and kept me awake.
>
> So that leads me to wonder if I can use a well-tuned major triad that
> won't keep me awake and yet contain pitches close enough to the damn
> leaf-blower to cover it.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"

Context is almost always helpful.

You have to be careful with your ears. Get a dB meter - if you have an
iPhone or Android phone you can get a dB meter app. Don't let constant
sounds be louder than about 80 dB.

Insulate the room acoustically if you can, that's always best.

If the sound is not too loud, try masking it with noise, white noise
or surf or something.

If you try with a chord, make a recording of the noise, look at a
sonogram with Audacity or something, then make your chord mask the
exact frequencies if they themselves do not beat. If they do, you are
going to have a hard time.

Hope this helps,
Mike
  

The most satisfying beating may be location specific, with the level
of satisfaction being directly proportional to how close the beating
is to the leaf-blower operator's head.  For maximum irony, use a rake
=)

~ af



On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Michael Mossey  wrote:
> On 12/24/2009 11:04 AM, Michael Gogins wrote:
>
> Context is almost always helpful.
>
> You have to be careful with your ears. Get a dB meter - if you have an
> iPhone or Android phone you can get a dB meter app. Don't let constant
> sounds be louder than about 80 dB.
>
> Insulate the room acoustically if you can, that's always best.
>
> If the sound is not too loud, try masking it with noise, white noise
> or surf or something.
>
> If you try with a chord, make a recording of the noise, look at a
> sonogram with Audacity or something, then make your chord mask the
> exact frequencies if they themselves do not beat. If they do, you are
> going to have a hard time.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Mike
>
>
> HI Mike
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I always wear earplugs at night, so neither the
> leaf blower nor any masking noise I use will be very loud at my eardrum. The
> leaf blower's noise is not particularly loud, but it is "piercing." The high
> pitch, purity of the tone, the way it reflects off nearby buildings, etc.,
> all contributes to make a sound that is quite alarming to my unconscious
> mind. Hence I wake up.
>
> I don't think there is any hope of matching the frequency without beats, as
> the frequency changes. However, my hope is that if I use masking noise that
> includes a high pure tone, my brain will "get used to it" and the additional
> noise from the leaf blower won't wake me up.
>
> My first attempt to use tones as masking noise was a disaster. The chord I
> used was in equal temperament and had ugly beats. For that reason, or
> whatever reason, the masking noise was just as alarming to my unconscious as
> the leaf blower.
>
> Sigh. Experimentation will be needed.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
>


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In that case the suggestions by others about just intonation triads
may be helpful. Experiment with different voicings.

Regards,
Mike

On 12/24/09, Michael Mossey  wrote:
> On 12/24/2009 11:04 AM, Michael Gogins wrote:
>> Context is almost always helpful.
>>
>> You have to be careful with your ears. Get a dB meter - if you have an
>> iPhone or Android phone you can get a dB meter app. Don't let constant
>> sounds be louder than about 80 dB.
>>
>> Insulate the room acoustically if you can, that's always best.
>>
>> If the sound is not too loud, try masking it with noise, white noise
>> or surf or something.
>>
>> If you try with a chord, make a recording of the noise, look at a
>> sonogram with Audacity or something, then make your chord mask the
>> exact frequencies if they themselves do not beat. If they do, you are
>> going to have a hard time.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Mike
>>
> HI Mike
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I always wear earplugs at night, so neither
> the leaf blower nor any masking noise I use will be very loud at my
> eardrum. The leaf blower's noise is not particularly loud, but it is
> "piercing." The high pitch, purity of the tone, the way it reflects off
> nearby buildings, etc., all contributes to make a sound that is quite
> alarming to my unconscious mind. Hence I wake up.
>
> I don't think there is any hope of matching the frequency without beats,
> as the frequency changes. However, my hope is that if I use masking
> noise that includes a high pure tone, my brain will "get used to it" and
> the additional noise from the leaf blower won't wake me up.
>
> My first attempt to use tones as masking noise was a disaster. The chord
> I used was in equal temperament and had ugly beats. For that reason, or
> whatever reason, the masking noise was just as alarming to my
> unconscious as the leaf blower.
>
> Sigh. Experimentation will be needed.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"

andy fillebrown wrote:
> The most satisfying beating may be location specific, with the level
> of satisfaction being directly proportional to how close the beating
> is to the leaf-blower operator's head.  For maximum irony, use a rake
> =)
> 
> ~ af
> 
> 


Thanks for a good laugh on Christmas Day!



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Partch's tonality system is a good place to explore this further.

--David

> Detuning the third a cent or two is arguably just as smooth and more
> pleasant because this will create a very slow and creamy beating.
> Personally I find the most pleasant "major" triads to be sonorities that
> hardly qualify as "major", such as using a 26/21 frequency for the third.
> Obviously the beating is far greater than that of a 5/4, but the exceedly
> soft feel of the third, almost a neutral third, is what gives the
> "pleasant" character to my ears.
>  
> Another conception of "pleasant" is "bright and cheerfull". IME the very
> high "major third" of 14/11 freq. ratio is a great candidate for this. 
> csound"