I have a dream for a system that integrates csound with a midi sequencer or 
general source of midi events like Finale, in the following way. Regular 
midi "note on" messages aren't adequate to convey how a note should be 
played by the csound instrument; it needs to know the duration and how that 
note is connected to the following note (legato, staccato) ahead of time. 
Maybe there is a way to write a vst plugin or something like that that 
preprocesses the midi so that additional messages can be sent to the csound 
instrument defining the actual note duration and type of connection; or 
maybe even things like the vibrato intensity, general dynamic contour of 
the note, etc.

The final system would operate like this: if I'm in a sequencer, or in 
Finale, I just start up the playback of a midi track. After perhaps a 
latency, the preprocessor sends enough information to csound to start 
rendering notes.

For those here who know more about these possibilities than I, does this 
sound feasible?

Thanks,
Mike


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Note-ons can be sent to Csound without Csound needing to know the note
duration. When the corresponding note-off message comes it will stop
the note. Using one of the 'r' family envelopes will mean you don't
get a sudden drop in audio but a user-definable fade out. Setting
things like vibrato intensity is a little more tricky but I guess you
could send some kind of midi program event from the sequencer that
Csound will read as a vibrato rate. The limitations here seem to be on
the midi end but I still don't understand where the problem is. Can
you tell us what sequencer you are using and what OS you are on? If
you're working on windows for example you can install midiox and send
midi notes from your sequencer directly to a Csound instrument set up
to listen for midi events. You can send as many midi events as you
like from your sequencer score, it's down to Csound to interpret them.
You can interpret aftertouch for example in any way you like within
your Csound instrument. If you're not working on windows there are
still similar things you can do in all the other operating systems. In
my experience sequencing is a very time consuming process. So much so
that I gave up on it years ago in favor of writing plain old Csound
scores instead.

Rory.


2010/1/10 Michael Mossey :
> I have a dream for a system that integrates csound with a midi sequencer or
> general source of midi events like Finale, in the following way. Regular
> midi "note on" messages aren't adequate to convey how a note should be
> played by the csound instrument; it needs to know the duration and how that
> note is connected to the following note (legato, staccato) ahead of time.
> Maybe there is a way to write a vst plugin or something like that that
> preprocesses the midi so that additional messages can be sent to the csound
> instrument defining the actual note duration and type of connection; or
> maybe even things like the vibrato intensity, general dynamic contour of the
> note, etc.
>
> The final system would operate like this: if I'm in a sequencer, or in
> Finale, I just start up the playback of a midi track. After perhaps a
> latency, the preprocessor sends enough information to csound to start
> rendering notes.
>
> For those here who know more about these possibilities than I, does this
> sound feasible?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>


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It is possible to do what you wish, with the exception of tieing one
note to another, using MIDI and Csound in a sequencer today, and I
have done it. The solution is CsoundVST  together with MIDI opcodes
used by sequencers to send MIDI controllers, pitch pend, and so on to
VST instruments. Currently this only works on Windows but there is no
reason it could not work on Linux and OS X with some tweaks to the
code.

"A Csound Tutorial" by me describes most of this, but does not go into
MIDI controllers or pitch bend. However, that stuff is not difficult.

Hope this helps,
Mike

On 1/10/10, Michael Mossey  wrote:
> I have a dream for a system that integrates csound with a midi sequencer or
> general source of midi events like Finale, in the following way. Regular
> midi "note on" messages aren't adequate to convey how a note should be nd
> played by the csound instrument; it needs to know the duration and how that
> note is connected to the following note (legato, staccato) ahead of time.
> Maybe there is a way to write a vst plugin or something like that that
> preprocesses the midi so that additional messages can be sent to the csound
> instrument defining the actual note duration and type of connection; or
> maybe even things like the vibrato intensity, general dynamic contour of
> the note, etc.
>
> The final system would operate like this: if I'm in a sequencer, or in
> Finale, I just start up the playback of a midi track. After perhaps a
> latency, the preprocessor sends enough information to csound to start
> rendering notes.
>
> For those here who know more about these possibilities than I, does this
> sound feasible?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>

Michael Gogins wrote:
> It is possible to do what you wish, with the exception of tieing one
> note to another, using MIDI and Csound in a sequencer today, and I
> have done it. The solution is CsoundVST  together with MIDI opcodes
> used by sequencers to send MIDI controllers, pitch pend, and so on to
> VST instruments. Currently this only works on Windows but there is no
> reason it could not work on Linux and OS X with some tweaks to the
> code.
> 
> "A Csound Tutorial" by me describes most of this, but does not go into
> MIDI controllers or pitch bend. However, that stuff is not difficult.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Mike
> 

I think this is part of it, but let me be more specific.

I plan to have a csound instrument that "shapes" the note---for example 
applying vibrato with changing intensity over time, or varying the 
"brightness" of the note over time. Because of how it computes the shapes, 
it needs to know the duration ahead of time, as well as the parameters that 
control the shape.

Note that I'm not talking about 'tieing' notes to each other, but a 
separated versus smooth connection, which affects how the csound instrument 
plays the last few ms of the note. Again this needs to be known ahead of 
time; it can't wait until receiving a midi off message.

So if I am going to be driving this via a program that produces midi, such 
as a sequencer or Finale, I need to send extra information to csound, which 
I understand can be sent via the midi controllers (in particular 
controllers I don't need to actually function in their original meaning).

There is an additional wrinkle; I can write an algorithm that determines 
the "shapes" involved in playing the notes by inspecting the composition, 
so they are determined automatically. I actually do not want to determine 
them manually. So that leads to the question of how to write a plug-in that 
can inspect the score.

A hack would be to write a plugin that uses a delay in order to receive 
most note off messages before it needs to start a csound note. This would 
work as long as every note duration is less than the delay.

Thanks,
Mike


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Hi Michael,

I don't know if you've tried my software blue, but I would say it may
work for your situation since it works with Csound note data directly.
 It is also one of the reasons I developed blue in the first place in
that one can program instruments to depend on duration of notes, which
is something I do often.  I would also say that with the Python
NoteProcessor and some scripting, you can have it filter your lists of
notes to change pfield settings depending on duration, location in
note list, check if the note has space behind it, etc. Maybe modify
note durations and things like that to have more legato versus
stoccato.  Plus the source of the notes don't have to be hand-typed
note lists, they could come from one of the other soundObjects in blue
such as the PianoRoll, PatternObject, etc.

The trouble with working with MIDI and Csound in regards to
composition like this where material is pre-formed before performance
is there is a fundamental difference in representation of musical
information, specifically the one you cited about duration vs. note-on
and note-off.  The latter is definitely modeled on a performance-based
view of musical information while Csound has duration involved.

blue is modeled more on the pre-formed composition view and based a
lot on notation of ideas versus performance of ideas.  I would think
it would be very difficult to achieve what you are thinking of doing
without what I'd call hacks to the representation of musical
information for MIDI, such that the information no longer matches up
with the intention of the compositional idea.  That's fine if you're
comfortable with it but for me presents a lot of cognitive dissonance
that slows down the music-making process.

I'd recommend giving blue a try to see if it can work out for your
needs; if not, then maybe it will at least give you ideas on how to
proceed further.

Thanks!
steven


On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Michael Mossey  wrote:
>
>
> Michael Gogins wrote:
>>
>> It is possible to do what you wish, with the exception of tieing one
>> note to another, using MIDI and Csound in a sequencer today, and I
>> have done it. The solution is CsoundVST  together with MIDI opcodes
>> used by sequencers to send MIDI controllers, pitch pend, and so on to
>> VST instruments. Currently this only works on Windows but there is no
>> reason it could not work on Linux and OS X with some tweaks to the
>> code.
>>
>> "A Csound Tutorial" by me describes most of this, but does not go into
>> MIDI controllers or pitch bend. However, that stuff is not difficult.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Mike
>>
>
> I think this is part of it, but let me be more specific.
>
> I plan to have a csound instrument that "shapes" the note---for example
> applying vibrato with changing intensity over time, or varying the
> "brightness" of the note over time. Because of how it computes the shapes,
> it needs to know the duration ahead of time, as well as the parameters that
> control the shape.
>
> Note that I'm not talking about 'tieing' notes to each other, but a
> separated versus smooth connection, which affects how the csound instrument
> plays the last few ms of the note. Again this needs to be known ahead of
> time; it can't wait until receiving a midi off message.
>
> So if I am going to be driving this via a program that produces midi, such
> as a sequencer or Finale, I need to send extra information to csound, which
> I understand can be sent via the midi controllers (in particular controllers
> I don't need to actually function in their original meaning).
>
> There is an additional wrinkle; I can write an algorithm that determines the
> "shapes" involved in playing the notes by inspecting the composition, so
> they are determined automatically. I actually do not want to determine them
> manually. So that leads to the question of how to write a plug-in that can
> inspect the score.
>
> A hack would be to write a plugin that uses a delay in order to receive most
> note off messages before it needs to start a csound note. This would work as
> long as every note duration is less than the delay.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>


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Some sequencers send note duration data if known.

MKG from cell phone

On Jan 10, 2010 3:38 PM, "Michael Mossey" <mpm@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:

Michael Gogins wrote: > > It is possible to do what you wish, with the exception of tieing one > n...

I think this is part of it, but let me be more specific.

I plan to have a csound instrument that "shapes" the note---for example applying vibrato with changing intensity over time, or varying the "brightness" of the note over time. Because of how it computes the shapes, it needs to know the duration ahead of time, as well as the parameters that control the shape.

Note that I'm not talking about 'tieing' notes to each other, but a separated versus smooth connection, which affects how the csound instrument plays the last few ms of the note. Again this needs to be known ahead of time; it can't wait until receiving a midi off message.

So if I am going to be driving this via a program that produces midi, such as a sequencer or Finale, I need to send extra information to csound, which I understand can be sent via the midi controllers (in particular controllers I don't need to actually function in their original meaning).

There is an additional wrinkle; I can write an algorithm that determines the "shapes" involved in playing the notes by inspecting the composition, so they are determined automatically. I actually do not want to determine them manually. So that leads to the question of how to write a plug-in that can inspect the score.

A hack would be to write a plugin that uses a delay in order to receive most note off messages before it needs to start a csound note. This would work as long as every note duration is less than the delay.

Thanks, Mike Send bugs reports to this list. To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk w...

Steven Yi wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> 
> I don't know if you've tried my software blue, but I would say it may
> work for your situation since it works with Csound note data directly.


I appreciate your taking the time to explain blue to me. I am interested in it.

However, the problem is that I want my csound instrument to be integrated 
with a midi sequencer or a notation program like Finale because I plan to 
create midi content via improvising on a midi keyboard and/or entering 
regular musical notation.

I don't know if there is any way to do that with blue.

Thanks,
Mike


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cameron bobro wrote:
>   Do you want Csound to be doing it's thing on the fly as you play (kind 
> of hard without a time machine)? Why not record in your sequencer than 
> either run the midi files directly in Csound, or with Csound being 
> driven by the sequencer, with a delay?
> 

Hi Cameron,

Well, no I don't expect Csound to function as a time machine. I will use a 
regular sampler to hear what I am improvising as I play it. However, I 
would then like to render the midi a few moments later. Midi files are a 
bit awkward as an interface. The advantage of playing the midi directly 
from the sequencer or notation program is that you can use all their 
facilities for selecting which midi sections to play, varying the tempo, 
soloing tracks, and anything else it can do.

Capturing the midi realtime in a separate program, using a delay to capture 
note off, and then calling Csound via the API is my only idea so far. It's 
a bit of a hack, but it's the best idea I have.

Thanks,
Mike



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HI Michael,

blue does not currently handle taking input from MIDI and mapping to
SoundObjects but it is on my list of features for the next version of
blue.  I had worked on a notation object for blue a long time ago but
never finished it.

Perhaps after the next version it will be interesting to check blue
once MIDI input is working.

Cheers!
steven

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Michael Mossey  wrote:
>
>
> Steven Yi wrote:
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> I don't know if you've tried my software blue, but I would say it may
>> work for your situation since it works with Csound note data directly.
>
>
> I appreciate your taking the time to explain blue to me. I am interested in
> it.
>
> However, the problem is that I want my csound instrument to be integrated
> with a midi sequencer or a notation program like Finale because I plan to
> create midi content via improvising on a midi keyboard and/or entering
> regular musical notation.
>
> I don't know if there is any way to do that with blue.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>


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michael.gogins wrote:
> 
> Some sequencers send note duration data if known.
> 
This is the first time I've heard of that, and I've used a lot of MIDI
sequencers -- what sequencer are you thinking of? You could do it in Max, of
course.

Looking back at the original poster's question, you could control a Csound
instrument's vibrato rate or whatever k-rate parameter you like using MIDI
Control Change messages from the sequencer. This wouldn't be too tricky, and
it might get you where you want to go.

OTOH, I think I agree with Rory (if I'm not putting words into his mouth,
which I probably am) that this sounds like a case of trying to put a round
peg in a square hole. The "notes" in a Csound score are not very analogous
to MIDI notes. Each system has its own strengths and its own limitations,
but they're very different! And a notation-based interface is yet further
afield from Csound. If you want to generate synthesized sound from a program
like Finale, using conventional VST synthesizers would be a lot easier, and
it might be more musically congruent as well. Or at least, that's my best
guess, without really knowing what you have in mind musically.

--Jim Aikin

Hi,

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:47 AM, Jim Aikin  wrote:
> OTOH, I think I agree with Rory (if I'm not putting words into his mouth,
> which I probably am) that this sounds like a case of trying to put a round
> peg in a square hole. The "notes" in a Csound score are not very analogous
> to MIDI notes. Each system has its own strengths and its own limitations,
> but they're very different! And a notation-based interface is yet further
> afield from Csound. If you want to generate synthesized sound from a program
> like Finale, using conventional VST synthesizers would be a lot easier, and
> it might be more musically congruent as well. Or at least, that's my best
> guess, without really knowing what you have in mind musically.
>


I think MIDI notes are Csound "i" events with few p-fields. What's
good about Csound score over MIDI is that you can pass as many
parameters as you want. There is a big difference in control messages,
though, as there is no score equivalent of control change, and
anything to this effect must be written in the orchestra.

Cheers,
Andrés


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Mikes midi command line flags made a big improvement with regards to
midi, I wonder if they could be extended so that users could pass
control change data via the command line too? I haven't checked the
code but it would seem to me to be relatively straightforward? That
way users could pass control change as p-fields to their instruments.
Mike will know better.

Rory.

2010/1/11 Andres Cabrera :
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:47 AM, Jim Aikin  wrote:
>> OTOH, I think I agree with Rory (if I'm not putting words into his mouth,
>> which I probably am) that this sounds like a case of trying to put a round
>> peg in a square hole. The "notes" in a Csound score are not very analogous
>> to MIDI notes. Each system has its own strengths and its own limitations,
>> but they're very different! And a notation-based interface is yet further
>> afield from Csound. If you want to generate synthesized sound from a program
>> like Finale, using conventional VST synthesizers would be a lot easier, and
>> it might be more musically congruent as well. Or at least, that's my best
>> guess, without really knowing what you have in mind musically.
>>
>
>
> I think MIDI notes are Csound "i" events with few p-fields. What's
> good about Csound score over MIDI is that you can pass as many
> parameters as you want. There is a big difference in control messages,
> though, as there is no score equivalent of control change, and
> anything to this effect must be written in the orchestra.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrés
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"


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Hi,

That would be nice, but the big limitation is that they would only be
passed at initialization, not as real control changes... which makes
them much less useful, and they won't work as people are used to....

They could however be passed say in a global k-rate variable, but I'm
not sure it's such a good idea to allow the definition of a global
variable from the command line. Sounds a bit messy to me.


Cheers,
Andrés

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Rory Walsh  wrote:
> Mikes midi command line flags made a big improvement with regards to
> midi, I wonder if they could be extended so that users could pass
> control change data via the command line too? I haven't checked the
> code but it would seem to me to be relatively straightforward? That
> way users could pass control change as p-fields to their instruments.
> Mike will know better.
>
> Rory.
>
> 2010/1/11 Andres Cabrera :
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:47 AM, Jim Aikin  wrote:
>>> OTOH, I think I agree with Rory (if I'm not putting words into his mouth,
>>> which I probably am) that this sounds like a case of trying to put a round
>>> peg in a square hole. The "notes" in a Csound score are not very analogous
>>> to MIDI notes. Each system has its own strengths and its own limitations,
>>> but they're very different! And a notation-based interface is yet further
>>> afield from Csound. If you want to generate synthesized sound from a program
>>> like Finale, using conventional VST synthesizers would be a lot easier, and
>>> it might be more musically congruent as well. Or at least, that's my best
>>> guess, without really knowing what you have in mind musically.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I think MIDI notes are Csound "i" events with few p-fields. What's
>> good about Csound score over MIDI is that you can pass as many
>> parameters as you want. There is a big difference in control messages,
>> though, as there is no score equivalent of control change, and
>> anything to this effect must be written in the orchestra.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrés
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"



-- 


Andrés


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Good point, I wasn't thinking straight! They can be passed as is using
the midi opcodes so I guess with a bit of work all control changes can
be utilised within an instrument.

Rory.


2010/1/11 Andres Cabrera :
> Hi,
>
> That would be nice, but the big limitation is that they would only be
> passed at initialization, not as real control changes... which makes
> them much less useful, and they won't work as people are used to....
>
> They could however be passed say in a global k-rate variable, but I'm
> not sure it's such a good idea to allow the definition of a global
> variable from the command line. Sounds a bit messy to me.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Andrés
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Rory Walsh  wrote:
>> Mikes midi command line flags made a big improvement with regards to
>> midi, I wonder if they could be extended so that users could pass
>> control change data via the command line too? I haven't checked the
>> code but it would seem to me to be relatively straightforward? That
>> way users could pass control change as p-fields to their instruments.
>> Mike will know better.
>>
>> Rory.
>>
>> 2010/1/11 Andres Cabrera :
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:47 AM, Jim Aikin  wrote:
>>>> OTOH, I think I agree with Rory (if I'm not putting words into his mouth,
>>>> which I probably am) that this sounds like a case of trying to put a round
>>>> peg in a square hole. The "notes" in a Csound score are not very analogous
>>>> to MIDI notes. Each system has its own strengths and its own limitations,
>>>> but they're very different! And a notation-based interface is yet further
>>>> afield from Csound. If you want to generate synthesized sound from a program
>>>> like Finale, using conventional VST synthesizers would be a lot easier, and
>>>> it might be more musically congruent as well. Or at least, that's my best
>>>> guess, without really knowing what you have in mind musically.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think MIDI notes are Csound "i" events with few p-fields. What's
>>> good about Csound score over MIDI is that you can pass as many
>>> parameters as you want. There is a big difference in control messages,
>>> though, as there is no score equivalent of control change, and
>>> anything to this effect must be written in the orchestra.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Andrés
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"


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I guess you could also do this using Pd, which is open source.

Rory.

2010/1/11 Jason a :
> Mike, i think building a Max widget would be the simplest solution.  you can
> build in a control rate for vibrato/attack parameters/ that is based off of
> velocity very easily, and don't forget about aftertouch and other midi info,
> like comparing note-off messages with incoming note-on messages thus
> handling your legato/staccato issue.  if you're using a mac, then you can
> use Midi Pipe to easily send info (without the risk of feedback which you
> can get by using the iac and not properly handling the midi end in, say,
> Logic's Environment screen).
>
> I use Csound all of the time in my compositions as a sound source (using a
> max widget and midi pipe for midi info, and soundflower for audio related
> stuff, ie. processing) and processing.  if you're not a Max user, i could
> probably whip something up that could at least get you back to creating as
> soon as possible if you need it... just email me...
>
> FWIW, blue is awesome. you may like that. and about all of the rest of the
> suggestions come from super-geniuses so they may be the ones to listen too.
>
> ciao,
> jadams
>
> email (just in case you decide to take me up on the offer):
> electronic.adams@gmail.com
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:45 AM, Rory Walsh  wrote:
>>
>> Good point, I wasn't thinking straight! They can be passed as is using
>> the midi opcodes so I guess with a bit of work all control changes can
>> be utilised within an instrument.
>>
>> Rory.
>>
>>
>> 2010/1/11 Andres Cabrera :
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > That would be nice, but the big limitation is that they would only be
>> > passed at initialization, not as real control changes... which makes
>> > them much less useful, and they won't work as people are used to....
>> >
>> > They could however be passed say in a global k-rate variable, but I'm
>> > not sure it's such a good idea to allow the definition of a global
>> > variable from the command line. Sounds a bit messy to me.
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Andrés
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Rory Walsh  wrote:
>> >> Mikes midi command line flags made a big improvement with regards to
>> >> midi, I wonder if they could be extended so that users could pass
>> >> control change data via the command line too? I haven't checked the
>> >> code but it would seem to me to be relatively straightforward? That
>> >> way users could pass control change as p-fields to their instruments.
>> >> Mike will know better.
>> >>
>> >> Rory.
>> >>
>> >> 2010/1/11 Andres Cabrera :
>> >>> Hi,
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:47 AM, Jim Aikin 
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>> OTOH, I think I agree with Rory (if I'm not putting words into his
>> >>>> mouth,
>> >>>> which I probably am) that this sounds like a case of trying to put a
>> >>>> round
>> >>>> peg in a square hole. The "notes" in a Csound score are not very
>> >>>> analogous
>> >>>> to MIDI notes. Each system has its own strengths and its own
>> >>>> limitations,
>> >>>> but they're very different! And a notation-based interface is yet
>> >>>> further
>> >>>> afield from Csound. If you want to generate synthesized sound from a
>> >>>> program
>> >>>> like Finale, using conventional VST synthesizers would be a lot
>> >>>> easier, and
>> >>>> it might be more musically congruent as well. Or at least, that's my
>> >>>> best
>> >>>> guess, without really knowing what you have in mind musically.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I think MIDI notes are Csound "i" events with few p-fields. What's
>> >>> good about Csound score over MIDI is that you can pass as many
>> >>> parameters as you want. There is a big difference in control messages,
>> >>> though, as there is no score equivalent of control change, and
>> >>> anything to this effect must be written in the orchestra.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> Andrés
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>> >>> "unsubscribe csound"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>> >> "unsubscribe csound"
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> >
>> > Andrés
>> >
>> >
>> > Send bugs reports to this list.
>> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> > csound"
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>
>
> --
> ciao,
> jAdams
>
>
>
>


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Hi Jason,
So if I understand, MAX/MSP is a commercial program, right? Does it have 
programmable synthesis capabilities that resemble csound?

Thanks,
Mike

Jason a wrote:
> Mike, i think building a Max widget would be the simplest solution.  you 
> can build in a control rate for vibrato/attack parameters/ that is based 
> off of velocity very easily, and don't forget about aftertouch and other 
> midi info, like comparing note-off messages with incoming note-on 
> messages thus handling your legato/staccato issue.  if you're using a 
> mac, then you can use Midi Pipe to easily send info (without the risk of 
> feedback which you can get by using the iac and not properly handling 
> the midi end in, say, Logic's Environment screen). 
> 
> I use Csound all of the time in my compositions as a sound source (using 
> a max widget and midi pipe for midi info, and soundflower for audio 
> related stuff, ie. processing) and processing.  if you're not a Max 
> user, i could probably whip something up that could at least get you 
> back to creating as soon as possible if you need it... just email me...
> 
> FWIW, blue is awesome. you may like that. and about all of the rest of 
> the suggestions come from super-geniuses so they may be the ones to 
> listen too. 
> 
> ciao,
> jadams
> 


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Yes and no.

Csound has more capabilities. For example, Csound will automatically
allocate voices as required to render polyphonic scores. You have to
pre-allocate voices in Max/MSP. Csound has more opcodes, and better
time/frequency tools.

But, Max/MSP has a much better user interface and is more widely used.
The synthesis and time/frequency capabilities are not bad, either --
just not as complete as Csound's.

Pure Data is an open source, freely available package that is more or
less a low-rent clone of Max/MSP.

Hope this helps,
Mike

On 1/11/10, Michael Mossey  wrote:
> Hi Jason,
> So if I understand, MAX/MSP is a commercial program, right? Does it have
> programmable synthesis capabilities that resemble csound?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> Jason a wrote:
>> Mike, i think building a Max widget would be the simplest solution.  you
>> can build in a control rate for vibrato/attack parameters/ that is based
>> off of velocity very easily, and don't forget about aftertouch and other
>> midi info, like comparing note-off messages with incoming note-on
>> messages thus handling your legato/staccato issue.  if you're using a
>> mac, then you can use Midi Pipe to easily send info (without the risk of
>> feedback which you can get by using the iac and not properly handling
>> the midi end in, say, Logic's Environment screen).
>>
>> I use Csound all of the time in my compositions as a sound source (using
>> a max widget and midi pipe for midi info, and soundflower for audio
>> related stuff, ie. processing) and processing.  if you're not a Max
>> user, i could probably whip something up that could at least get you
>> back to creating as soon as possible if you need it... just email me...
>>
>> FWIW, blue is awesome. you may like that. and about all of the rest of
>> the suggestions come from super-geniuses so they may be the ones to
>> listen too.
>>
>> ciao,
>> jadams
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>

It certainly does although it's a graphical data flow language rather
than a text based one. Pd is often referred to as the ugly sister of
Max/MSP. It's true it doesn't look as good but it's free, has a huge
community with a great mailing list and functions just as well as
Max/MSP in my humble opinion. Both systems let you interact directly
with an instance Csound.

Rory.


2010/1/11 Michael Mossey :
> Hi Jason,
> So if I understand, MAX/MSP is a commercial program, right? Does it have
> programmable synthesis capabilities that resemble csound?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> Jason a wrote:
>>
>> Mike, i think building a Max widget would be the simplest solution.  you
>> can build in a control rate for vibrato/attack parameters/ that is based off
>> of velocity very easily, and don't forget about aftertouch and other midi
>> info, like comparing note-off messages with incoming note-on messages thus
>> handling your legato/staccato issue.  if you're using a mac, then you can
>> use Midi Pipe to easily send info (without the risk of feedback which you
>> can get by using the iac and not properly handling the midi end in, say,
>> Logic's Environment screen).
>> I use Csound all of the time in my compositions as a sound source (using a
>> max widget and midi pipe for midi info, and soundflower for audio related
>> stuff, ie. processing) and processing.  if you're not a Max user, i could
>> probably whip something up that could at least get you back to creating as
>> soon as possible if you need it... just email me...
>>
>> FWIW, blue is awesome. you may like that. and about all of the rest of the
>> suggestions come from super-geniuses so they may be the ones to listen too.
>> ciao,
>> jadams
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>


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You can also interact with csound using nyquist on linux with lisp.
Also Chuck is pretty cool software and uses the stk library so any
synthesis you do with stk opcodes in csound can also be done with
Chuck.

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Rory Walsh  wrote:
> It certainly does although it's a graphical data flow language rather
> than a text based one. Pd is often referred to as the ugly sister of
> Max/MSP. It's true it doesn't look as good but it's free, has a huge
> community with a great mailing list and functions just as well as
> Max/MSP in my humble opinion. Both systems let you interact directly
> with an instance Csound.
>
> Rory.
>
>
> 2010/1/11 Michael Mossey :
>> Hi Jason,
>> So if I understand, MAX/MSP is a commercial program, right? Does it have
>> programmable synthesis capabilities that resemble csound?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
>>
>> Jason a wrote:
>>>
>>> Mike, i think building a Max widget would be the simplest solution.  you
>>> can build in a control rate for vibrato/attack parameters/ that is based off
>>> of velocity very easily, and don't forget about aftertouch and other midi
>>> info, like comparing note-off messages with incoming note-on messages thus
>>> handling your legato/staccato issue.  if you're using a mac, then you can
>>> use Midi Pipe to easily send info (without the risk of feedback which you
>>> can get by using the iac and not properly handling the midi end in, say,
>>> Logic's Environment screen).
>>> I use Csound all of the time in my compositions as a sound source (using a
>>> max widget and midi pipe for midi info, and soundflower for audio related
>>> stuff, ie. processing) and processing.  if you're not a Max user, i could
>>> probably whip something up that could at least get you back to creating as
>>> soon as possible if you need it... just email me...
>>>
>>> FWIW, blue is awesome. you may like that. and about all of the rest of the
>>> suggestions come from super-geniuses so they may be the ones to listen too.
>>> ciao,
>>> jadams
>>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"


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