I just tested the FLTK examples from IainMccurdyExamples.

It seemed to be a very interesting project, much more complete than all
actual GUI widgets, specialy with the possibility of multiple windows and
tabs in each windows that can also be scrolled and other goodies like to
have different kind of sliders. Another nice feature is the possibility to
change the text of the widgets from csound. I suppose, this offer f.e. the
possibility to have a group of buttons containing the name of the sound
files of a whole folder.

Unfortunaly, it works correctly on Windows (or Linux too maybe), but not on
Mac OS X.
There are horrible clicks that happens when moving any slider, even when
using port opcodes.

I should have read before the following thread here:
http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Fw-Current-Viability-of-FLTK-td5727452.html
specially the message from Iain McCurdy himself.

It would be nice to use all the features of FLTK  in a more modern GUI,
based on Qt, Juce or something else, eventually in another application
connected thru OSC.

Best,
Bernard

P.S.
I tested the html examples in CsoundQt, there is a problem with the buttons:
they send their value when the button is released instead of when the button
is pushed. This is a big problemr in a music application.






--
Sent from: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-General-f1093014.html

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Unfortunately, the FLTK library doesn’t play well with the MacOS objective-c graphics. 
In this system, FLTK is used with no threads, which might explain the behaviour, as 
every time you touch the interface, the audio thread is interrupted causing the
clicks or the sound to stop. Threads in FLTK cause Csound to crash on MacOS
so that’s why they are not used.

Maybe it’s possible to make them work, but I do not think any of us core developers 
will be  spending time trying to hack FLTK to behave. If anyone wants to do this, they’re 
welcome.

========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 10 Sep 2019, at 13:39, Bernard Geyer  wrote:
> 
> I just tested the FLTK examples from IainMccurdyExamples.
> 
> It seemed to be a very interesting project, much more complete than all
> actual GUI widgets, specialy with the possibility of multiple windows and
> tabs in each windows that can also be scrolled and other goodies like to
> have different kind of sliders. Another nice feature is the possibility to
> change the text of the widgets from csound. I suppose, this offer f.e. the
> possibility to have a group of buttons containing the name of the sound
> files of a whole folder.
> 
> Unfortunaly, it works correctly on Windows (or Linux too maybe), but not on
> Mac OS X.
> There are horrible clicks that happens when moving any slider, even when
> using port opcodes.
> 
> I should have read before the following thread here:
> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Fw-Current-Viability-of-FLTK-td5727452.html
> specially the message from Iain McCurdy himself.
> 
> It would be nice to use all the features of FLTK  in a more modern GUI,
> based on Qt, Juce or something else, eventually in another application
> connected thru OSC.
> 
> Best,
> Bernard
> 
> P.S.
> I tested the html examples in CsoundQt, there is a problem with the buttons:
> they send their value when the button is released instead of when the button
> is pushed. This is a big problemr in a music application.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-General-f1093014.html
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Could it be possible to disable these opcodes in the macOS build and add 
a warning in the manual, that these opcodes are not present in macOS?

On a side note, with csoundqt and fltk not being supported anymore there 
is no simple way to share a .csd file with a user interface that will 
work out of the box on all major platforms

On 10.09.19 15:00, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> Unfortunately, the FLTK library doesn’t play well with the MacOS objective-c graphics.
> In this system, FLTK is used with no threads, which might explain the behaviour, as
> every time you touch the interface, the audio thread is interrupted causing the
> clicks or the sound to stop. Threads in FLTK cause Csound to crash on MacOS
> so that’s why they are not used.
>
> Maybe it’s possible to make them work, but I do not think any of us core developers
> will be  spending time trying to hack FLTK to behave. If anyone wants to do this, they’re
> welcome.
>
> ========================
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
>> On 10 Sep 2019, at 13:39, Bernard Geyer  wrote:
>>
>> I just tested the FLTK examples from IainMccurdyExamples.
>>
>> It seemed to be a very interesting project, much more complete than all
>> actual GUI widgets, specialy with the possibility of multiple windows and
>> tabs in each windows that can also be scrolled and other goodies like to
>> have different kind of sliders. Another nice feature is the possibility to
>> change the text of the widgets from csound. I suppose, this offer f.e. the
>> possibility to have a group of buttons containing the name of the sound
>> files of a whole folder.
>>
>> Unfortunaly, it works correctly on Windows (or Linux too maybe), but not on
>> Mac OS X.
>> There are horrible clicks that happens when moving any slider, even when
>> using port opcodes.
>>
>> I should have read before the following thread here:
>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Fw-Current-Viability-of-FLTK-td5727452.html
>> specially the message from Iain McCurdy himself.
>>
>> It would be nice to use all the features of FLTK  in a more modern GUI,
>> based on Qt, Juce or something else, eventually in another application
>> connected thru OSC.
>>
>> Best,
>> Bernard
>>
>> P.S.
>> I tested the html examples in CsoundQt, there is a problem with the buttons:
>> they send their value when the button is released instead of when the button
>> is pushed. This is a big problemr in a music application.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-General-f1093014.html
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>          https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

It’s first time I hear that CsoundQT is not supported anymore.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 10 Sep 2019, at 14:45, Eduardo Moguillansky  wrote:
> 
> Could it be possible to disable these opcodes in the macOS build and add a warning in the manual, that these opcodes are not present in macOS?
> 
> On a side note, with csoundqt and fltk not being supported anymore there is no simple way to share a .csd file with a user interface that will work out of the box on all major platforms
> 
> On 10.09.19 15:00, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> Unfortunately, the FLTK library doesn’t play well with the MacOS objective-c graphics.
>> In this system, FLTK is used with no threads, which might explain the behaviour, as
>> every time you touch the interface, the audio thread is interrupted causing the
>> clicks or the sound to stop. Threads in FLTK cause Csound to crash on MacOS
>> so that’s why they are not used.
>> 
>> Maybe it’s possible to make them work, but I do not think any of us core developers
>> will be  spending time trying to hack FLTK to behave. If anyone wants to do this, they’re
>> welcome.
>> 
>> ========================
>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>> 
>>> On 10 Sep 2019, at 13:39, Bernard Geyer  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I just tested the FLTK examples from IainMccurdyExamples.
>>> 
>>> It seemed to be a very interesting project, much more complete than all
>>> actual GUI widgets, specialy with the possibility of multiple windows and
>>> tabs in each windows that can also be scrolled and other goodies like to
>>> have different kind of sliders. Another nice feature is the possibility to
>>> change the text of the widgets from csound. I suppose, this offer f.e. the
>>> possibility to have a group of buttons containing the name of the sound
>>> files of a whole folder.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunaly, it works correctly on Windows (or Linux too maybe), but not on
>>> Mac OS X.
>>> There are horrible clicks that happens when moving any slider, even when
>>> using port opcodes.
>>> 
>>> I should have read before the following thread here:
>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Fw-Current-Viability-of-FLTK-td5727452.html
>>> specially the message from Iain McCurdy himself.
>>> 
>>> It would be nice to use all the features of FLTK  in a more modern GUI,
>>> based on Qt, Juce or something else, eventually in another application
>>> connected thru OSC.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Bernard
>>> 
>>> P.S.
>>> I tested the html examples in CsoundQt, there is a problem with the buttons:
>>> they send their value when the button is released instead of when the button
>>> is pushed. This is a big problemr in a music application.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-General-f1093014.html
>>> 
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

I got the impression from Tarmo's email is that CsoundQt was in
maintenance mode. That doesn't prevent anyone else from contributing
and/or taking up maintaining the application.

As for user interface, WebAudio Csound works pretty well and designing
an interface for HTML has many options. I'm going to be assembling
some templates/examples for the workshop at the Csound Conference and
will try to cover a number of use cases including MIDI I/O and
realtime audio processing.  (I will be posting the examples once the
workshop is complete, as I'll probably be working on them up until the
conference. ;) ) One todo I have is looking into loading opcode
plugins; I think there's a path to make that work but just need to
spend the time to investigate.

On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 10:20 AM Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
>
> It’s first time I hear that CsoundQT is not supported anymore.
> ========================
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
> > On 10 Sep 2019, at 14:45, Eduardo Moguillansky  wrote:
> >
> > Could it be possible to disable these opcodes in the macOS build and add a warning in the manual, that these opcodes are not present in macOS?
> >
> > On a side note, with csoundqt and fltk not being supported anymore there is no simple way to share a .csd file with a user interface that will work out of the box on all major platforms
> >
> > On 10.09.19 15:00, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >> Unfortunately, the FLTK library doesn’t play well with the MacOS objective-c graphics.
> >> In this system, FLTK is used with no threads, which might explain the behaviour, as
> >> every time you touch the interface, the audio thread is interrupted causing the
> >> clicks or the sound to stop. Threads in FLTK cause Csound to crash on MacOS
> >> so that’s why they are not used.
> >>
> >> Maybe it’s possible to make them work, but I do not think any of us core developers
> >> will be  spending time trying to hack FLTK to behave. If anyone wants to do this, they’re
> >> welcome.
> >>
> >> ========================
> >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> >> Maynooth University
> >> Ireland
> >>
> >>> On 10 Sep 2019, at 13:39, Bernard Geyer  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I just tested the FLTK examples from IainMccurdyExamples.
> >>>
> >>> It seemed to be a very interesting project, much more complete than all
> >>> actual GUI widgets, specialy with the possibility of multiple windows and
> >>> tabs in each windows that can also be scrolled and other goodies like to
> >>> have different kind of sliders. Another nice feature is the possibility to
> >>> change the text of the widgets from csound. I suppose, this offer f.e. the
> >>> possibility to have a group of buttons containing the name of the sound
> >>> files of a whole folder.
> >>>
> >>> Unfortunaly, it works correctly on Windows (or Linux too maybe), but not on
> >>> Mac OS X.
> >>> There are horrible clicks that happens when moving any slider, even when
> >>> using port opcodes.
> >>>
> >>> I should have read before the following thread here:
> >>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Fw-Current-Viability-of-FLTK-td5727452.html
> >>> specially the message from Iain McCurdy himself.
> >>>
> >>> It would be nice to use all the features of FLTK  in a more modern GUI,
> >>> based on Qt, Juce or something else, eventually in another application
> >>> connected thru OSC.
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Bernard
> >>>
> >>> P.S.
> >>> I tested the html examples in CsoundQt, there is a problem with the buttons:
> >>> they send their value when the button is released instead of when the button
> >>> is pushed. This is a big problemr in a music application.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Sent from: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-General-f1093014.html
> >>>
> >>> Csound mailing list
> >>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>
> >> Csound mailing list
> >> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >> Send bugs reports to
> >>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >
> > Csound mailing list
> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > Send bugs reports to
> >       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Just by reading the answers I realize that we have very different needs, 
and that is fine. For myself, I need to be able to give a student or a 
musician, who has at most been exposed to something like max a .csd file 
and he/she should be able to figure out how to run that. Up to now, 
csoundqt would sort of fill this niche, although quite bug-ridden in 
macOS (which is what 99% of all students / musicians use), and too 
complex in general. All other major computer-music frameworks have this 
solved (pd, supercollider, etc). Of course it's great to be able to run 
csound code in so different environments, but I think we should all 
share an interest in designing a better / more polished frontend 
experience.

eduardo

On 10.09.19 17:19, Steven Yi wrote:
> I got the impression from Tarmo's email is that CsoundQt was in
> maintenance mode. That doesn't prevent anyone else from contributing
> and/or taking up maintaining the application.
>
> As for user interface, WebAudio Csound works pretty well and designing
> an interface for HTML has many options. I'm going to be assembling
> some templates/examples for the workshop at the Csound Conference and
> will try to cover a number of use cases including MIDI I/O and
> realtime audio processing.  (I will be posting the examples once the
> workshop is complete, as I'll probably be working on them up until the
> conference. ;) ) One todo I have is looking into loading opcode
> plugins; I think there's a path to make that work but just need to
> spend the time to investigate.
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 10:20 AM Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> It’s first time I hear that CsoundQT is not supported anymore.
>> ========================
>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>>
>>> On 10 Sep 2019, at 14:45, Eduardo Moguillansky  wrote:
>>>
>>> Could it be possible to disable these opcodes in the macOS build and add a warning in the manual, that these opcodes are not present in macOS?
>>>
>>> On a side note, with csoundqt and fltk not being supported anymore there is no simple way to share a .csd file with a user interface that will work out of the box on all major platforms
>>>
>>> On 10.09.19 15:00, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>> Unfortunately, the FLTK library doesn’t play well with the MacOS objective-c graphics.
>>>> In this system, FLTK is used with no threads, which might explain the behaviour, as
>>>> every time you touch the interface, the audio thread is interrupted causing the
>>>> clicks or the sound to stop. Threads in FLTK cause Csound to crash on MacOS
>>>> so that’s why they are not used.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it’s possible to make them work, but I do not think any of us core developers
>>>> will be  spending time trying to hack FLTK to behave. If anyone wants to do this, they’re
>>>> welcome.
>>>>
>>>> ========================
>>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>>>> Maynooth University
>>>> Ireland
>>>>
>>>>> On 10 Sep 2019, at 13:39, Bernard Geyer  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I just tested the FLTK examples from IainMccurdyExamples.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seemed to be a very interesting project, much more complete than all
>>>>> actual GUI widgets, specialy with the possibility of multiple windows and
>>>>> tabs in each windows that can also be scrolled and other goodies like to
>>>>> have different kind of sliders. Another nice feature is the possibility to
>>>>> change the text of the widgets from csound. I suppose, this offer f.e. the
>>>>> possibility to have a group of buttons containing the name of the sound
>>>>> files of a whole folder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunaly, it works correctly on Windows (or Linux too maybe), but not on
>>>>> Mac OS X.
>>>>> There are horrible clicks that happens when moving any slider, even when
>>>>> using port opcodes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I should have read before the following thread here:
>>>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Fw-Current-Viability-of-FLTK-td5727452.html
>>>>> specially the message from Iain McCurdy himself.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be nice to use all the features of FLTK  in a more modern GUI,
>>>>> based on Qt, Juce or something else, eventually in another application
>>>>> connected thru OSC.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Bernard
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S.
>>>>> I tested the html examples in CsoundQt, there is a problem with the buttons:
>>>>> they send their value when the button is released instead of when the button
>>>>> is pushed. This is a big problemr in a music application.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent from: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-General-f1093014.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>          https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>          https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>          https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

I have contributed to CsoundQt and developed my own Csound front ends,
including CsoundVstMain,  CsoundHtml5, and of course the Csound for
Android app. I also have used NW.js, SciTE, and Atom as front ends for
Csound. So I think I have some experience in this area.

I agree that CsoundQt provided a good selection of features for the
general user of Csound. I would summarize these as:

1. Run any CSD, ORC/SCO combination, or HTML file with one click.
2. Provide syntax coloring and context-sensitive help.
3. Provide a form builder for Csound control widgets.
4. Provide sensible defaults for Csound command-line options.
5. Install easily.
6. Use the core Csound API for compatibility across versions of Csound.
7. Come with an extensive library of examples that work (this is
probably the most important item).

There are some things about CsoundQt that I did not like.

1. The HTML5 integration depended on Qt's WebEngine, for which the app
had to provide some glue code to inject JavaScript proxy classes for
the native Csound object.
2. The key bindings were idiosyncratic in some cases.
3. Copy and paste did not work for me very well between CsoundQt and
other editors.
4. The use of defaults and presets was not intuitive.

If I were to improve CsoundQt, I would:

1. Change from the WebEngine to the Chromium Embedded Framework, which
is more feature complete and more performant.
2. Make key bindings like other editors on the same operating system,
with user customizability.
3. Change the copy and paste behavior to work like other editors.
4. Simplify the settings pages, and assume that expert users will
simply specify command line flags or use the  tag.

After several years, work on "host bindings" for WebAssembly code is
now proceeding. This would make it easier for C or C++ code to bind to
the Document Object Model in the browser. That in turn should make it
possible to create an HTML5 Csound front end that runs Csound in the
same process (although, of course, the actual Csound performance
occurs in the audio callback and is, in effect, in a separate thread).
Then the HTML5 environment can host both Csound and the front end, and
easily support user-defined HTML5 user interfaces.

Not only that, but various projects are preparing runtimes for
WebAssembly that run on the desktop. That might enable such an HTML5
Csound front end to access the native file system.

For myself, though, I have to say that running the csound.node addon
in NW.js, and editing the code in a regular code editor, is entirely
adequate and I have come to prefer working in this way to using any
other front end.

Anyway, I think that the Csound developers and community should either
improve CsoundQt, or develop a somewhat more lightweight version of
the same sort of thing. In that case agreeing on a set of desired
features would be a good first step, before deciding on platform
(WebAssembly, customization of an existing code editor, NW.js app, Qt
application, etc.) or implementation language.

Regards,
Mike




3.

-----------------------------------------------------
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 5:36 PM Eduardo Moguillansky
 wrote:
>
> Just by reading the answers I realize that we have very different needs,
> and that is fine. For myself, I need to be able to give a student or a
> musician, who has at most been exposed to something like max a .csd file
> and he/she should be able to figure out how to run that. Up to now,
> csoundqt would sort of fill this niche, although quite bug-ridden in
> macOS (which is what 99% of all students / musicians use), and too
> complex in general. All other major computer-music frameworks have this
> solved (pd, supercollider, etc). Of course it's great to be able to run
> csound code in so different environments, but I think we should all
> share an interest in designing a better / more polished frontend
> experience.
>
> eduardo
>
> On 10.09.19 17:19, Steven Yi wrote:
> > I got the impression from Tarmo's email is that CsoundQt was in
> > maintenance mode. That doesn't prevent anyone else from contributing
> > and/or taking up maintaining the application.
> >
> > As for user interface, WebAudio Csound works pretty well and designing
> > an interface for HTML has many options. I'm going to be assembling
> > some templates/examples for the workshop at the Csound Conference and
> > will try to cover a number of use cases including MIDI I/O and
> > realtime audio processing.  (I will be posting the examples once the
> > workshop is complete, as I'll probably be working on them up until the
> > conference. ;) ) One todo I have is looking into loading opcode
> > plugins; I think there's a path to make that work but just need to
> > spend the time to investigate.
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 10:20 AM Victor Lazzarini
> >  wrote:
> >> It’s first time I hear that CsoundQT is not supported anymore.
> >> ========================
> >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> >> Maynooth University
> >> Ireland
> >>
> >>> On 10 Sep 2019, at 14:45, Eduardo Moguillansky  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Could it be possible to disable these opcodes in the macOS build and add a warning in the manual, that these opcodes are not present in macOS?
> >>>
> >>> On a side note, with csoundqt and fltk not being supported anymore there is no simple way to share a .csd file with a user interface that will work out of the box on all major platforms
> >>>
> >>> On 10.09.19 15:00, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >>>> Unfortunately, the FLTK library doesn’t play well with the MacOS objective-c graphics.
> >>>> In this system, FLTK is used with no threads, which might explain the behaviour, as
> >>>> every time you touch the interface, the audio thread is interrupted causing the
> >>>> clicks or the sound to stop. Threads in FLTK cause Csound to crash on MacOS
> >>>> so that’s why they are not used.
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe it’s possible to make them work, but I do not think any of us core developers
> >>>> will be  spending time trying to hack FLTK to behave. If anyone wants to do this, they’re
> >>>> welcome.
> >>>>
> >>>> ========================
> >>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> >>>> Maynooth University
> >>>> Ireland
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 10 Sep 2019, at 13:39, Bernard Geyer  wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I just tested the FLTK examples from IainMccurdyExamples.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It seemed to be a very interesting project, much more complete than all
> >>>>> actual GUI widgets, specialy with the possibility of multiple windows and
> >>>>> tabs in each windows that can also be scrolled and other goodies like to
> >>>>> have different kind of sliders. Another nice feature is the possibility to
> >>>>> change the text of the widgets from csound. I suppose, this offer f.e. the
> >>>>> possibility to have a group of buttons containing the name of the sound
> >>>>> files of a whole folder.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Unfortunaly, it works correctly on Windows (or Linux too maybe), but not on
> >>>>> Mac OS X.
> >>>>> There are horrible clicks that happens when moving any slider, even when
> >>>>> using port opcodes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I should have read before the following thread here:
> >>>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Fw-Current-Viability-of-FLTK-td5727452.html
> >>>>> specially the message from Iain McCurdy himself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It would be nice to use all the features of FLTK  in a more modern GUI,
> >>>>> based on Qt, Juce or something else, eventually in another application
> >>>>> connected thru OSC.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best,
> >>>>> Bernard
> >>>>>
> >>>>> P.S.
> >>>>> I tested the html examples in CsoundQt, there is a problem with the buttons:
> >>>>> they send their value when the button is released instead of when the button
> >>>>> is pushed. This is a big problemr in a music application.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Sent from: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-General-f1093014.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>          https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>> Csound mailing list
> >>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>
> >> Csound mailing list
> >> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >> Send bugs reports to
> >>          https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > Csound mailing list
> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > Send bugs reports to
> >          https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

I think it's good discuss the topic of frontends since we haven't had
a conversation about this kind of thing in a while. I'll describe my
perspective so the comments are understood through that lens.

I myself don't use CsoundQt, nor do I teach with it, so I can't say I
know the issues involved there. The students I have use Windows as
that is what is in the classrooms, but I am in a college of computing
rather than at a conservatory. I am using a web-based editor for
teaching at the moment (live.csound.com, though I will switch to
ide.csound.com once that is ready), and it has worked for me on my Mac
as well as in the classroom.  I think if I introduce a desktop csound
frontend, I will probably use Blue or Cabbage as they would work
better for the particular topics I am covering in my course, but I
will likely not have time to go into either program this semester
unfortunately.

I was not aware CsoundQt was not running well, but the last time I
tried it was on Windows and it worked for the small amount of things I
tested. I downloaded it just now on Mac and had problems.  Using the
default CsoundQt settings with portaudio I kept getting messages of
'*** PortAudio: error: -9998: Invalid number of channels'. I had to to
either turn off using CsoundQt's settings for audio and just use
CsOptions or switch to CoreAudio driver to get Csound to run. When
running, I ran into the app freezing, sometimes asking for microphone
access or sometimes just frozen requiring force quitting. I don't know
if the situation is different on other versions of OSX, but on 10.14.6
it was not a great experience and very different than what I remember
from running on Windows. As for complexity, I did find the UI feeling
a bit cluttered to start, but reorganizing things and leaving just the
code editor, console, and opcode help windows there felt good to me.
If I used CsoundQt, I'm not sure I'd ever use the live events, HTML
view, or Python-related features. I also tend to use dark themes in
most of my software so I did not find the code editor easy to look at.
I do like that CsoundQt has a GUI builder rather than having to use
code to create GUIs.

Right now, I'm focused on the Web IDE for teaching and (hopefully) for
community building purposes, csound-live-code for performance, and
Blue for my own composing work. When I do live coding on the desktop I
typically to use vim, but I would like to revisit the Csound VS Code
plugin sometime to add a few more features like support for live
coding.

Regarding GUIs and Csound, the Web IDE won't have an interface builder
to start but it's a part of the roadmap for later phases. For myself,
I use Blue's interface builder when I build GUI instruments and
effects, but that doesn't overlap with the use cases that most people
here use UI's for when working with Csound.

I do have hopes that the Web IDE will be a good and useful environment
for working with Csound. Ed, Hlodver, and I are working on this now
but it is not quite ready for general testing yet (hopefully soon).

For my mention of HTML and WebCsound, it was just to discuss a
possibility and perhaps because it's a lot on my mind. Thinking about
it in terms of appropriateness for musicians in general, I am not so
sure. It'd be very flexible and powerful if you're already versed in
web programming, but I imagine it would be a steep learning curve
otherwise. That said, being able to deliver music projects that "just
run" via browser has been a pretty amazing experience for me. Perhaps
a combination of the Web IDE for general usage and
WebCsound+HTML/JS/CSS for custom applications can address many of the
use cases.



On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 5:36 PM Eduardo Moguillansky
 wrote:
>
> Just by reading the answers I realize that we have very different needs,
> and that is fine. For myself, I need to be able to give a student or a
> musician, who has at most been exposed to something like max a .csd file
> and he/she should be able to figure out how to run that. Up to now,
> csoundqt would sort of fill this niche, although quite bug-ridden in
> macOS (which is what 99% of all students / musicians use), and too
> complex in general. All other major computer-music frameworks have this
> solved (pd, supercollider, etc). Of course it's great to be able to run
> csound code in so different environments, but I think we should all
> share an interest in designing a better / more polished frontend
> experience.
>
> eduardo
>
> On 10.09.19 17:19, Steven Yi wrote:
> > I got the impression from Tarmo's email is that CsoundQt was in
> > maintenance mode. That doesn't prevent anyone else from contributing
> > and/or taking up maintaining the application.
> >
> > As for user interface, WebAudio Csound works pretty well and designing
> > an interface for HTML has many options. I'm going to be assembling
> > some templates/examples for the workshop at the Csound Conference and
> > will try to cover a number of use cases including MIDI I/O and
> > realtime audio processing.  (I will be posting the examples once the
> > workshop is complete, as I'll probably be working on them up until the
> > conference. ;) ) One todo I have is looking into loading opcode
> > plugins; I think there's a path to make that work but just need to
> > spend the time to investigate.
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 10:20 AM Victor Lazzarini
> >  wrote:
> >> It’s first time I hear that CsoundQT is not supported anymore.
> >> ========================
> >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> >> Maynooth University
> >> Ireland
> >>
> >>> On 10 Sep 2019, at 14:45, Eduardo Moguillansky  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Could it be possible to disable these opcodes in the macOS build and add a warning in the manual, that these opcodes are not present in macOS?
> >>>
> >>> On a side note, with csoundqt and fltk not being supported anymore there is no simple way to share a .csd file with a user interface that will work out of the box on all major platforms
> >>>
> >>> On 10.09.19 15:00, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >>>> Unfortunately, the FLTK library doesn’t play well with the MacOS objective-c graphics.
> >>>> In this system, FLTK is used with no threads, which might explain the behaviour, as
> >>>> every time you touch the interface, the audio thread is interrupted causing the
> >>>> clicks or the sound to stop. Threads in FLTK cause Csound to crash on MacOS
> >>>> so that’s why they are not used.
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe it’s possible to make them work, but I do not think any of us core developers
> >>>> will be  spending time trying to hack FLTK to behave. If anyone wants to do this, they’re
> >>>> welcome.
> >>>>
> >>>> ========================
> >>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> >>>> Maynooth University
> >>>> Ireland
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 10 Sep 2019, at 13:39, Bernard Geyer  wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I just tested the FLTK examples from IainMccurdyExamples.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It seemed to be a very interesting project, much more complete than all
> >>>>> actual GUI widgets, specialy with the possibility of multiple windows and
> >>>>> tabs in each windows that can also be scrolled and other goodies like to
> >>>>> have different kind of sliders. Another nice feature is the possibility to
> >>>>> change the text of the widgets from csound. I suppose, this offer f.e. the
> >>>>> possibility to have a group of buttons containing the name of the sound
> >>>>> files of a whole folder.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Unfortunaly, it works correctly on Windows (or Linux too maybe), but not on
> >>>>> Mac OS X.
> >>>>> There are horrible clicks that happens when moving any slider, even when
> >>>>> using port opcodes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I should have read before the following thread here:
> >>>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Fw-Current-Viability-of-FLTK-td5727452.html
> >>>>> specially the message from Iain McCurdy himself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It would be nice to use all the features of FLTK  in a more modern GUI,
> >>>>> based on Qt, Juce or something else, eventually in another application
> >>>>> connected thru OSC.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best,
> >>>>> Bernard
> >>>>>
> >>>>> P.S.
> >>>>> I tested the html examples in CsoundQt, there is a problem with the buttons:
> >>>>> they send their value when the button is released instead of when the button
> >>>>> is pushed. This is a big problemr in a music application.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Sent from: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-General-f1093014.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>          https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>> Csound mailing list
> >>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>
> >> Csound mailing list
> >> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >> Send bugs reports to
> >>          https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > Csound mailing list
> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > Send bugs reports to
> >          https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

If you need a GUI for your Csound code, you could try Cabbage (https://cabbageaudio.com/). It's an opensource project by Rory Walsh (based on the Juce framework) that allows to make very nice GUIs for Csound programs, and you can easily export your work as a VST or AU plugin. It works nicely on Windows and MacOSX and it should work on Linux too (I haven't tried yet on Linux).

This is an example of what you can get with its widgets:

It has a nice Csound IDE too, with syntax highlighting:

Regards,

Il 2019-09-10 14:39 Bernard Geyer ha scritto:

I just tested the FLTK examples from IainMccurdyExamples.

It seemed to be a very interesting project, much more complete than all
actual GUI widgets, specialy with the possibility of multiple windows and
tabs in each windows that can also be scrolled and other goodies like to
have different kind of sliders. Another nice feature is the possibility to
change the text of the widgets from csound. I suppose, this offer f.e. the
possibility to have a group of buttons containing the name of the sound
files of a whole folder.

Unfortunaly, it works correctly on Windows (or Linux too maybe), but not on
Mac OS X.
There are horrible clicks that happens when moving any slider, even when
using port opcodes.

I should have read before the following thread here:
http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Fw-Current-Viability-of-FLTK-td5727452.html
specially the message from Iain McCurdy himself.

It would be nice to use all the features of FLTK  in a more modern GUI,
based on Qt, Juce or something else, eventually in another application
connected thru OSC.

Best,
Bernard

P.S.
I tested the html examples in CsoundQt, there is a problem with the buttons:
they send their value when the button is released instead of when the button
is pushed. This is a big problemr in a music application.






--
Sent from: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-General-f1093014.html

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

I'm very interested by custom themes, but I couldn't find the doc about them.

Multi-channel seems to work correctly now, I just tested it in 5.1.
Maybe more people should try to test it now.

Greetings,
Bernard




--
Sent from: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-General-f1093014.html

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here