I am rediscovering my Clavia Nord modular G2 again. ( I use it in a new band
I joined).
As some of you may know, this is a free programming synthesiser, with a lot
of building blocks (FM, additive, subtractive, effects, etc).
But it is limited:
- no samples
- small memory

I was thinking: what if a synth like this existed based on Csound? 
That would be a killer synth!

Just dreaming...

Richard



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I have the exact same dream. 
I was thinking you'd get a bit along the way with a raspberry pi, a midi keyboard, a decent general purpose midi controller all thrown together in nice suitcase (AKS, anyone?) with a small screen for widgets etc. 
You could even do some lovely tactile patch bay solutions using the pri's GPIO-pins.
The rpi is of course somewhat limited if one wants to run heavy stuff (ksmps=1, multichannel output etc), but other than that...

/A



26 okt 2012 kl. 10:22 skrev zappfinger :

> I am rediscovering my Clavia Nord modular G2 again. ( I use it in a new band
> I joined).
> As some of you may know, this is a free programming synthesiser, with a lot
> of building blocks (FM, additive, subtractive, effects, etc).
> But it is limited:
> - no samples
> - small memory
> 
> I was thinking: what if a synth like this existed based on Csound? 
> That would be a killer synth!
> 
> Just dreaming...
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Just-dreaming-Csound-synth-tp5717377.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 

> I am rediscovering my Clavia Nord modular G2 again. ( I use it in a new
band I joined).
> As some of you may know, this is a free programming synthesiser, with a
> lot of building blocks (FM,
> additive, subtractive, effects, etc).
> But it is limited:
> - no samples
> - small memory
> 
> I was thinking: what if a synth like this existed based on Csound?
> That would be a killer synth! 

I've dreamt about this too. I even did a little design work, and looked
around for a graphic programming environment that would run it. (Processing
is one possibility.)

On mature reflection, however, I realized that Csound already _is_ that
synthesizer. Trying to build a general-purpose modular that could be used in
many pieces of music would _limit_ Csound. You would only have, let's say,
three LFOs. What if you needed five for some reason? In native Csound, you
have an essentially unlimited rack of LFOs, envelopes, oscillators, and so
forth.

True, the patching is not as intuitive as with the Nord Modular or another
graphically editable patchable synth (such as Reason, which is pretty darn
hefty when you look at it as a single instrument). But if you want to use
Csound in a band/gigging context, it's not too difficult to create a new
.csd for each song.

A bigger limitation in using Csound this way is sound design: You have no
convenient patch library containing hundreds of professionally crafted
presets. Trying to reinvent the work of people like Howard Scarr, Eric
Persing, and Skippy Lehmkuhl ... I don't even want to think about it.

--JA



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Wasn't someone attempting this many years ago (10+) with a SHARC processor?



On 10/26/12 1:15 PM, Jim Aikin wrote:
>> I am rediscovering my Clavia Nord modular G2 again. ( I use it in a new
> band I joined).
>> As some of you may know, this is a free programming synthesiser, with a
>> lot of building blocks (FM,
>> additive, subtractive, effects, etc).
>> But it is limited:
>> - no samples
>> - small memory
>>
>> I was thinking: what if a synth like this existed based on Csound?
>> That would be a killer synth!
> I've dreamt about this too. I even did a little design work, and looked
> around for a graphic programming environment that would run it. (Processing
> is one possibility.)
>
> On mature reflection, however, I realized that Csound already _is_ that
> synthesizer. Trying to build a general-purpose modular that could be used in
> many pieces of music would _limit_ Csound. You would only have, let's say,
> three LFOs. What if you needed five for some reason? In native Csound, you
> have an essentially unlimited rack of LFOs, envelopes, oscillators, and so
> forth.
>
> True, the patching is not as intuitive as with the Nord Modular or another
> graphically editable patchable synth (such as Reason, which is pretty darn
> hefty when you look at it as a single instrument). But if you want to use
> Csound in a band/gigging context, it's not too difficult to create a new
> .csd for each song.
>
> A bigger limitation in using Csound this way is sound design: You have no
> convenient patch library containing hundreds of professionally crafted
> presets. Trying to reinvent the work of people like Howard Scarr, Eric
> Persing, and Skippy Lehmkuhl ... I don't even want to think about it.
>
> --JA
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Just-dreaming-Csound-synth-tp5717377p5717393.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Barry Vercoe ported Csound to the SHARC under the name "Extended
Csound." The project was a technical success but not a very big
business success -- as far as I know. Today's ordinary PCs run Csound
much faster than Extended Csound on the SHARC, and (again, as far as I
know) the project has not been kept technically up to date, which
would enable it to run faster than ordinary Csound.

There is a large body of instrument designs and example pieces for
Csound that is comparable in size and quality to the similar archives
for Reaktor, Nord, etc. But of course it is all text-based.

In reality, the better Csound instruments sound better than the better
Reaktor patches, and better than the better VST synthesizer patches
(in my experience, which is reasonably broad). On the other hand, some
of the commercial software has capabilities that Csound doesn't yet
have, such as transcribing audio into MIDI, auto-tune, and so on.

What I think most people want here is a "graphical patcher" that would
enable one to design good Csound instruments by patching together
little boxes with little wires on a form, while hearing what is
happening. This is possible to some extent with various tools today,
including Cabel and Surmulot.

Ideally, such a tool would integrate with CsoundQt or Cabbage or blue,
and patches would be saved in the relevant files for future editing.

Regards,
Mike

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Michael Rhoades
 wrote:
> Wasn't someone attempting this many years ago (10+) with a SHARC processor?
>
>
>
>
> On 10/26/12 1:15 PM, Jim Aikin wrote:
>>>
>>> I am rediscovering my Clavia Nord modular G2 again. ( I use it in a new
>>
>> band I joined).
>>>
>>> As some of you may know, this is a free programming synthesiser, with a
>>> lot of building blocks (FM,
>>> additive, subtractive, effects, etc).
>>> But it is limited:
>>> - no samples
>>> - small memory
>>>
>>> I was thinking: what if a synth like this existed based on Csound?
>>> That would be a killer synth!
>>
>> I've dreamt about this too. I even did a little design work, and looked
>> around for a graphic programming environment that would run it.
>> (Processing
>> is one possibility.)
>>
>> On mature reflection, however, I realized that Csound already _is_ that
>> synthesizer. Trying to build a general-purpose modular that could be used
>> in
>> many pieces of music would _limit_ Csound. You would only have, let's say,
>> three LFOs. What if you needed five for some reason? In native Csound, you
>> have an essentially unlimited rack of LFOs, envelopes, oscillators, and so
>> forth.
>>
>> True, the patching is not as intuitive as with the Nord Modular or another
>> graphically editable patchable synth (such as Reason, which is pretty darn
>> hefty when you look at it as a single instrument). But if you want to use
>> Csound in a band/gigging context, it's not too difficult to create a new
>> .csd for each song.
>>
>> A bigger limitation in using Csound this way is sound design: You have no
>> convenient patch library containing hundreds of professionally crafted
>> presets. Trying to reinvent the work of people like Howard Scarr, Eric
>> Persing, and Skippy Lehmkuhl ... I don't even want to think about it.
>>
>> --JA
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Just-dreaming-Csound-synth-tp5717377p5717393.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

> What I think most people want here is a "graphical patcher" that would
> enable one to design good Csound instruments by patching together
> little boxes with little wires on a form, while hearing what is
> happening. This is possible to some extent with various tools today,
> including Cabel and Surmulot.

I'm currently working on a graphical patcher, yup, a Cabbage patcher!.
It's still a long way from realisation, but it lets users connect
their Cabbage instruments together in a patching environment similar
to Max/Pd. Double clicking a node will let you edit the Csound text
directly, and I'm currently looking at clever ways of updated
instruments without causing clicks in the signal output. I use it
myself a lot and even in its raw state I find it really speeds up
sound design. However, it won't be ready for public consumption until
same time in the new year...

Oh yes... it all comes back to me now. I remember thinking that the 
SHARC would have worked well in those days in a stand alone synth.

I find Absynth, FM8 and Metasynth (for example) to have great sound 
quality and they are easy to use however I always seem to run into a 
limitation at some point where I want to do something they are not 
capable of. Of course Csound has no such limits... Plus, for some 
reason, I like having all of the parameters right there in front of me 
in a single text file. I can see the overall configuration I am working 
with much better from that perspective rather than having to toggle 
through the various GUI screens. That said, I realize that perspective 
is not universal.



On 10/26/12 3:09 PM, Michael Gogins wrote:
> Barry Vercoe ported Csound to the SHARC under the name "Extended
> Csound." The project was a technical success but not a very big
> business success -- as far as I know. Today's ordinary PCs run Csound
> much faster than Extended Csound on the SHARC, and (again, as far as I
> know) the project has not been kept technically up to date, which
> would enable it to run faster than ordinary Csound.
>
> There is a large body of instrument designs and example pieces for
> Csound that is comparable in size and quality to the similar archives
> for Reaktor, Nord, etc. But of course it is all text-based.
>
> In reality, the better Csound instruments sound better than the better
> Reaktor patches, and better than the better VST synthesizer patches
> (in my experience, which is reasonably broad). On the other hand, some
> of the commercial software has capabilities that Csound doesn't yet
> have, such as transcribing audio into MIDI, auto-tune, and so on.
>
> What I think most people want here is a "graphical patcher" that would
> enable one to design good Csound instruments by patching together
> little boxes with little wires on a form, while hearing what is
> happening. This is possible to some extent with various tools today,
> including Cabel and Surmulot.
>
> Ideally, such a tool would integrate with CsoundQt or Cabbage or blue,
> and patches would be saved in the relevant files for future editing.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Michael Rhoades
>  wrote:
>> Wasn't someone attempting this many years ago (10+) with a SHARC processor?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/26/12 1:15 PM, Jim Aikin wrote:
>>>> I am rediscovering my Clavia Nord modular G2 again. ( I use it in a new
>>> band I joined).
>>>> As some of you may know, this is a free programming synthesiser, with a
>>>> lot of building blocks (FM,
>>>> additive, subtractive, effects, etc).
>>>> But it is limited:
>>>> - no samples
>>>> - small memory
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking: what if a synth like this existed based on Csound?
>>>> That would be a killer synth!
>>> I've dreamt about this too. I even did a little design work, and looked
>>> around for a graphic programming environment that would run it.
>>> (Processing
>>> is one possibility.)
>>>
>>> On mature reflection, however, I realized that Csound already _is_ that
>>> synthesizer. Trying to build a general-purpose modular that could be used
>>> in
>>> many pieces of music would _limit_ Csound. You would only have, let's say,
>>> three LFOs. What if you needed five for some reason? In native Csound, you
>>> have an essentially unlimited rack of LFOs, envelopes, oscillators, and so
>>> forth.
>>>
>>> True, the patching is not as intuitive as with the Nord Modular or another
>>> graphically editable patchable synth (such as Reason, which is pretty darn
>>> hefty when you look at it as a single instrument). But if you want to use
>>> Csound in a band/gigging context, it's not too difficult to create a new
>>> .csd for each song.
>>>
>>> A bigger limitation in using Csound this way is sound design: You have no
>>> convenient patch library containing hundreds of professionally crafted
>>> presets. Trying to reinvent the work of people like Howard Scarr, Eric
>>> Persing, and Skippy Lehmkuhl ... I don't even want to think about it.
>>>
>>> --JA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Just-dreaming-Csound-synth-tp5717377p5717393.html
>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>               https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>
>

I have some preliminary designs for a patcher as well. No UI done yet, but it's in the list of todos. I still have questions though about it, and still have the thought that it is faster to use code+gui widget designer o build things.

A "GUI patcher" and "code with widgets" are two different use cases. I
have more use for code with widgets, but I would definitely have some
use for a patcher.

Best,
Mike

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Steven Yi  wrote:
> I have some preliminary designs for a patcher as well. No UI done yet, but
> it's in the list of todos. I still have questions though about it, and still
> have the thought that it is faster to use code+gui widget designer o build
> things.
>
> On Oct 26, 2012 8:29 PM, "Rory Walsh"  wrote:
>>
>> > What I think most people want here is a "graphical patcher" that would
>> > enable one to design good Csound instruments by patching together
>> > little boxes with little wires on a form, while hearing what is
>> > happening. This is possible to some extent with various tools today,
>> > including Cabel and Surmulot.
>>
>> I'm currently working on a graphical patcher, yup, a Cabbage patcher!.
>> It's still a long way from realisation, but it lets users connect
>> their Cabbage instruments together in a patching environment similar
>> to Max/Pd. Double clicking a node will let you edit the Csound text
>> directly, and I'm currently looking at clever ways of updated
>> instruments without causing clicks in the signal output. I use it
>> myself a lot and even in its raw state I find it really speeds up
>> sound design. However, it won't be ready for public consumption until
>> same time in the new year...
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

Funny that you write this, as I also rediscoverd my G2 a week ago.
The big difference between Csound and G2 is for me, that the G2 is a 
-only- musical instrument - that has it's limitations but on the other 
hand it gives you the power to "master" it in a way. And you do not have 
to care about interfacing, thats the best thing with it. Sometimes I 
hate these 8 Knobs, because there should be more! But you don't think 
about connecting your Ipad to it. ;-)

Thinking about a CsoundInABox comes to the question of "What is the 
right controller for Csound?" I think everybody has it's own answer.But 
it would be a nice DIY project to build Csound-Keyboards. Mine would be 
green, possibly?

Alex


Am 26.10.12 10:22, schrieb zappfinger:
> I am rediscovering my Clavia Nord modular G2 again. ( I use it in a new band
> I joined).
> As some of you may know, this is a free programming synthesiser, with a lot
> of building blocks (FM, additive, subtractive, effects, etc).
> But it is limited:
> - no samples
> - small memory
>
> I was thinking: what if a synth like this existed based on Csound?
> That would be a killer synth!
>
> Just dreaming...
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Just-dreaming-Csound-synth-tp5717377.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>

Alex, that would be sea green, I guess?

The G2 is in itself a nice midi controller, or can be setup as such.


Richard



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