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[Csnd] csound-double Intel-mac OSX render-to-disk CPU question

Date2009-05-20 02:51
Frompeiman khosravi
Subject[Csnd] csound-double Intel-mac OSX render-to-disk CPU question
Dear all,

I am using csound double to render to disk a very complex CSD that uses PVS opcodes (including the highly CPU intensive pvsblur) with FFTsize=2048, overlap size of FFT/16 or less (e.g. 128), window-size of FFT*8, ksmps=1 and 96khz sr, also using flag -3 (for 24 bit sample output). These settings would naturally be impossible to run in real-time considering the nature of my csd. 

So I am not surprised that at the end of the non-real-time performance the terminal prints out this:

Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 135.728s, CPU: 133.630s 

Is this just theoretical? How can the CPU go over 100% without csound freezing? I admit I don't understand what this means exactly. In short is this a problem or can it cause problems? (apart from the computer fan spinning like crazy and me having to finish a cup of coffee for each render!).

Also would it make sense that for some reason audio signal of 0 sample value seems to create some sort of CPU spike in real-time performance? 

Many Thanks
Peiman

Date2009-05-20 03:03
FromMike Moser-Booth
Subject[Csnd] Re: csound-double Intel-mac OSX render-to-disk CPU question
Hello,

I think the CPU spike has something to do with the fact that Intel 
processors actually have to strain harder when dealing with very small 
values than with large ones. As for the elapsed time, I never really 
paid attention to it, but I always just assumed the "s" stood for 
seconds. But I couldn't finish a cup of coffee in 133 seconds! So maybe 
I'm wrong on that.

.mmb

peiman khosravi wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I am using csound double to render to disk a very complex CSD that 
> uses PVS opcodes (including the highly CPU intensive pvsblur) with 
> FFTsize=2048, overlap size of FFT/16 or less (e.g. 128), window-size 
> of FFT*8, ksmps=1 and 96khz sr, also using flag -3 (for 24 bit sample 
> output). These settings would naturally be impossible to run in 
> real-time considering the nature of my csd. 
>
> So I am not surprised that at the end of the non-real-time performance 
> the terminal prints out this:
>
> Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 135.728s, CPU: 133.630s 
>
> Is this just theoretical? How can the CPU go over 100% without csound 
> freezing? I admit I don't understand what this means exactly. In short 
> is this a problem or can it cause problems? (apart from the computer 
> fan spinning like crazy and me having to finish a cup of coffee for 
> each render!).
>
> Also would it make sense that for some reason audio signal of 0 sample 
> value seems to create some sort of CPU spike in real-time performance? 
>
> Many Thanks
> Peiman


Date2009-05-20 11:03
Frompeiman khosravi
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: csound-double Intel-mac OSX render-to-disk CPU question
Hi Mike,

Thanks for the clarification. In truth I'm batch processing so multiply this by 20!

So CPU: 133.630s is in seconds and not percentage? That makes sense now!

Cheers
Peiman 

2009/5/20 Mike Moser-Booth <mmoserbooth@gmail.com>
Hello,

I think the CPU spike has something to do with the fact that Intel processors actually have to strain harder when dealing with very small values than with large ones. As for the elapsed time, I never really paid attention to it, but I always just assumed the "s" stood for seconds. But I couldn't finish a cup of coffee in 133 seconds! So maybe I'm wrong on that.

.mmb


peiman khosravi wrote:
Dear all,

I am using csound double to render to disk a very complex CSD that uses PVS opcodes (including the highly CPU intensive pvsblur) with FFTsize=2048, overlap size of FFT/16 or less (e.g. 128), window-size of FFT*8, ksmps=1 and 96khz sr, also using flag -3 (for 24 bit sample output). These settings would naturally be impossible to run in real-time considering the nature of my csd.
So I am not surprised that at the end of the non-real-time performance the terminal prints out this:

Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 135.728s, CPU: 133.630s
Is this just theoretical? How can the CPU go over 100% without csound freezing? I admit I don't understand what this means exactly. In short is this a problem or can it cause problems? (apart from the computer fan spinning like crazy and me having to finish a cup of coffee for each render!).

Also would it make sense that for some reason audio signal of 0 sample value seems to create some sort of CPU spike in real-time performance?
Many Thanks
Peiman



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Date2009-05-20 11:12
FromVictor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: Re: csound-double Intel-mac OSX render-to-disk CPU question
AttachmentsNone  None  

Date2009-05-20 11:48
Frompeiman khosravi
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: csound-double Intel-mac OSX render-to-disk CPU question
Thanks very much for the explanation Victor. Now I understand :-)

Best
Peiman

2009/5/20 <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie>
What you get reported is basically the CPU time it takes for the processor to
complete the task. So 133s of CPU time would run in realtime if your sound was lasting
for more than that (give it a few seconds of margin). The other figure is the
total time and it is larger because it acounts for disk access etc (CPU time is
strictly number-crunching time).

Say you have a sound that lasts for 100s and it takes 5s to generate it. It means
that you are taking around 5% of CPU, and that it runs on 0.05 of realtime.

Victor


----- Original Message -----
From: peiman khosravi <peimankhosravi@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 11:04 am
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: csound-double Intel-mac OSX render-to-disk CPU question
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk

> Hi Mike,

>
Thanks for the clarification. In truth I'm batch processing so multiply this by 20!

>
So CPU: 133.630s is in seconds and not percentage? That makes sense now!

>
>
Cheers
Peiman 
>
>
2009/5/20 Mike Moser-Booth <mmoserbooth@gmail.com>
>

> Hello,
>
>
>
> I think the CPU spike has something to do with the fact that Intel processors actually have to strain harder when dealing with very small values than with large ones. As for the elapsed time, I never really paid attention to it, but I always just assumed the "s" stood for seconds. But I couldn't finish a cup of coffee in 133 seconds! So maybe I'm wrong on that.
>
>
>
>
> .mmb

>
>
>
> peiman khosravi wrote:
>
>

> Dear all,
>
>
>
> I am using csound double to render to disk a very complex CSD that uses PVS opcodes (including the highly CPU intensive pvsblur) with FFTsize=2048, overlap size of FFT/16 or less (e.g. 128), window-size of FFT*8, ksmps=1 and 96khz sr, also using flag -3 (for 24 bit sample output). These settings would naturally be impossible to run in real-time considering the nature of my csd.
>
>
> So I am not surprised that at the end of the non-real-time performance the terminal prints out this:
>
>
>
> Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 135.728s, CPU: 133.630s
>
> Is this just theoretical? How can the CPU go over 100% without csound freezing? I admit I don't understand what this means exactly. In short is this a problem or can it cause problems? (apart from the computer fan spinning like crazy and me having to finish a cup of coffee for each render!).
>
>
>
>
> Also would it make sense that for some reason audio signal of 0 sample value seems to create some sort of CPU spike in real-time performance?
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Peiman
>
>

>
>
>
>
>
>

> Send bugs reports to this list.
>
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>

>

>

Dr Victor Lazzarini, Senior Lecturer, Dept. of Music,National University of Ireland, Maynooth


Date2009-05-20 16:50
FromMichael Gogins
Subject[Csnd] Re: csound-double Intel-mac OSX render-to-disk CPU question
The CPU of course cannot go over 100%. CPU time is not real time. What
you are ultimately interested in real time or wall clock time, the
time that you yourself experience. The CPU is not necessarily running
at every point of wall clock time.

If the computer is set up right, it of course will devote itself to
100% of CPU time to computing an intense job. This is what we want,
with just enough power left over to handle interruptions.

Floating point numbers very close to 0 can indeed cause performance
problems on some computers. This is the dreaded "denormal" problem and
you can google this term to learn more.

Hope this helps,
Mike

On 5/19/09, peiman khosravi  wrote:
> Dear all,
> I am using csound double to render to disk a very complex CSD that uses PVS
> opcodes (including the highly CPU intensive pvsblur) with FFTsize=2048,
> overlap size of FFT/16 or less (e.g. 128), window-size of FFT*8, ksmps=1 and
> 96khz sr, also using flag -3 (for 24 bit sample output). These settings
> would naturally be impossible to run in real-time considering the nature of
> my csd.
>
> So I am not surprised that at the end of the non-real-time performance the
> terminal prints out this:
>
> Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 135.728s, CPU: 133.630s
>
> Is this just theoretical? How can the CPU go over 100% without csound
> freezing? I admit I don't understand what this means exactly. In short is
> this a problem or can it cause problems? (apart from the computer
> fan spinning like crazy and me having to finish a cup of coffee for each
> render!).
>
> Also would it make sense that for some reason audio signal of 0 sample value
> seems to create some sort of CPU spike in real-time performance?
>
> Many Thanks
> Peiman
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"


-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

Date2009-05-20 17:10
Frompeiman khosravi
Subject[Csnd] Re: Re: csound-double Intel-mac OSX render-to-disk CPU question
ahhh great! I just found out that there is even a denorm opcode! 

Thanks Michael

Peiman

2009/5/20 Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@gmail.com>
The CPU of course cannot go over 100%. CPU time is not real time. What
you are ultimately interested in real time or wall clock time, the
time that you yourself experience. The CPU is not necessarily running
at every point of wall clock time.

If the computer is set up right, it of course will devote itself to
100% of CPU time to computing an intense job. This is what we want,
with just enough power left over to handle interruptions.

Floating point numbers very close to 0 can indeed cause performance
problems on some computers. This is the dreaded "denormal" problem and
you can google this term to learn more.

Hope this helps,
Mike

On 5/19/09, peiman khosravi <peimankhosravi@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
> I am using csound double to render to disk a very complex CSD that uses PVS
> opcodes (including the highly CPU intensive pvsblur) with FFTsize=2048,
> overlap size of FFT/16 or less (e.g. 128), window-size of FFT*8, ksmps=1 and
> 96khz sr, also using flag -3 (for 24 bit sample output). These settings
> would naturally be impossible to run in real-time considering the nature of
> my csd.
>
> So I am not surprised that at the end of the non-real-time performance the
> terminal prints out this:
>
> Elapsed time at end of performance: real: 135.728s, CPU: 133.630s
>
> Is this just theoretical? How can the CPU go over 100% without csound
> freezing? I admit I don't understand what this means exactly. In short is
> this a problem or can it cause problems? (apart from the computer
> fan spinning like crazy and me having to finish a cup of coffee for each
> render!).
>
> Also would it make sense that for some reason audio signal of 0 sample value
> seems to create some sort of CPU spike in real-time performance?
>
> Many Thanks
> Peiman
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"


--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


Send bugs reports to this list.
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"