I'm working real-time project involving multiple audio channels.
I have multiple instances of csound(an instance per channel). 
I decided to not use threads from csound lib, instead I manage threads by
hand, using  cpu affinity API.
Now I need to mix channels from different csound instances. It seems that
opcodes like MixerSend, MixerReceive are not appropriate for my case.

Could someone give me a hand?
Thanks.




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Could you clarify if you are using one thread per csound?  I think to
make things sync up for mixing, it'd be best to run the csound
instances together read the outputs from some instances then write
that as the inputs to another csound instance (could use channels or
use SPIN and SPOUT to read from the audio ins/outs for the Csound
instance).

On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 2:07 AM, imaia  wrote:
> I'm working real-time project involving multiple audio channels.
> I have multiple instances of csound(an instance per channel).
> I decided to not use threads from csound lib, instead I manage threads by
> hand, using  cpu affinity API.
> Now I need to mix channels from different csound instances. It seems that
> opcodes like MixerSend, MixerReceive are not appropriate for my case.
>
> Could someone give me a hand?
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Mixing-channels-from-different-csound-instances-tp5730035.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
> csound6:
>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
> csound5:
>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>

I'm using one thread per csound instance. But I'm using my own pthreads 
instead of csound's thread API.

What you mean when you say ' run the csound instances together' ? On
multiple threads in the same process? That's my case.

So, If I use either SPIN/SPOUT or channels, the things will be synchronized?

Thanks.




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The behavior I want is the same found in mixing equipment.
Multiple independent I/O channels, each one with a chain o effects.
The system has multiple output cards.
In some circumstances,  channels need to be mixed in a single output card.

I'm asking myself whether I need sync to mix audio channels. I don't know
the answer yet.

I found in cs6 API : csound{Get/Set}AudioChannel that could be used to
communicate cs instances. It's synchronized through spinlocks. In this case
I could use chnget, chnset in .cds files.

I'm in a good direction?




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>From this description it seems it might be a good idea to just use one
instance of Csound,
as you have have as many inputs and outputs as you like in one instance.
If you communicate with several different soundcards, you could make
an aggregate device by conneting all hardware to jack and then let
csound read/write to jack.
Each channel could have independent processing and/or you could route
flexible between channels according to needs (e.g. common aux send).
If you need to split processing load onto several CPU cores, this
should be possible with the recent multicore support within one Csound
instance, and if your channels are indeed separate (not too much
sending back and forth between channels) the multicore facilities
should do a reasonably good job of automatically distributing the load
on the available CPUs.
Hope I did not misunderstand you use case(?), but perhaps you do not
need to split into several instances.
best
Oeyvind

2013/11/28 imaia :
> The behavior I want is the same found in mixing equipment.
> Multiple independent I/O channels, each one with a chain o effects.
> The system has multiple output cards.
> In some circumstances,  channels need to be mixed in a single output card.
>
> I'm asking myself whether I need sync to mix audio channels. I don't know
> the answer yet.
>
> I found in cs6 API : csound{Get/Set}AudioChannel that could be used to
> communicate cs instances. It's synchronized through spinlocks. In this case
> I could use chnget, chnset in .cds files.
>
> I'm in a good direction?
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Mixing-channels-from-different-csound-instances-tp5730035p5730277.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
> csound6:
>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
> csound5:
>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



-- 

Oeyvind Brandtsegg
Professor of Music Technology
NTNU
7491 Trondheim
Norway
Cell: +47 92 203 205

http://flyndresang.no/
http://www.partikkelaudio.com/
http://soundcloud.com/brandtsegg
http://soundcloud.com/t-emp

Thanks for the replies.

I will try a single csound instance and csound's multicore implementation. 
My question is about the load balancing and speedup in csound's multicore.
How csound decides what's is a good load in one instance? 

In Top/threadsafe.c , I can see "CsoundLockMutex" which makes the calling
thread sleep. I think it would be better use spinlocks instead of mutex.





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We do use spin locks in a number of places in the codebase, probably
more than actual locks now.  (Look for csoundSpinLock and
csoundSpinUnLock).  The multi-core implementation is mostly held
within the Engine/cs_par_* files.  I haven't looked through the
multicore implementation in depth, but as far as I understand, it uses
a SAT solver to figure out dependency of nodes upon each other, splits
up work by instrument instance, respects Csound's natural instrument
ordering, and uses some cost analysis to figure out if it's worth
splitting up the work or just to go ahead and do it.  John would be
able to better explain (and correct me if I've gotten it wrong!).

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 3:26 PM, imaia  wrote:
> Thanks for the replies.
>
> I will try a single csound instance and csound's multicore implementation.
> My question is about the load balancing and speedup in csound's multicore.
> How csound decides what's is a good load in one instance?
>
> In Top/threadsafe.c , I can see "CsoundLockMutex" which makes the calling
> thread sleep. I think it would be better use spinlocks instead of mutex.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Mixing-channels-from-different-csound-instances-tp5730035p5730344.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
> csound6:
>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
> csound5:
>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>

Thanks for the explanations Steven,

I can't figure out how many threads csound creates to control performance of
one instance. It's something the API user can control? It would be nice to
limit the number of threads and CPU affinity of these threads. I say that
because it's important in real-time performance a CPU dedicated to I/O and
interrupts events while the other on audio processing.







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You can control the number of threads with -j # where # is number of
threads (or can use --num-threads).  Those should work with
csoundSetOption.  As for affinity, I think it isn't used because it is
isn't supported on all platforms.  I suppose it could be enabled
depending on OS. Victor or John would know more about that area of
code.

On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 8:06 PM, imaia  wrote:
> Thanks for the explanations Steven,
>
> I can't figure out how many threads csound creates to control performance of
> one instance. It's something the API user can control? It would be nice to
> limit the number of threads and CPU affinity of these threads. I say that
> because it's important in real-time performance a CPU dedicated to I/O and
> interrupts events while the other on audio processing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Mixing-channels-from-different-csound-instances-tp5730035p5730431.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
> csound6:
>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
> csound5:
>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>

Ah thanks! It seems good the "--num-threads" option. I will use
csoundSetOption in my code.

The only remaining question is how to route several channels from a single
csound instances to different soundcards?






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The only way I see for doing that would be to disable csound's
hardware IO and to handle it yourself.  You can do that with calling
csoundSetHostImplementedIO to disable csound from trying to open
hardware devices.  From there, you could do your own hardware device
opening, running of csound, and splitting of audio from the csound
spout to the various hardware devices.

On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 11:04 PM, imaia  wrote:
> Ah thanks! It seems good the "--num-threads" option. I will use
> csoundSetOption in my code.
>
> The only remaining question is how to route several channels from a single
> csound instances to different soundcards?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Mixing-channels-from-different-csound-instances-tp5730035p5730437.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
> csound6:
>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
> csound5:
>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>

Or you could create an aggregate device, combining several hardware
devices into what looks like one device for Csound.
On OSX it can be done in the system audio setup, under windows with
ASIO4ALL, under Linux I'm not sure yet (must be possible).
I did say earlier that you could do this in jack, but it seems I was
wrong about tha, as jack only can relate to one hardware device at a
time (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Oeyvind

2013/12/2 Steven Yi :
> The only way I see for doing that would be to disable csound's
> hardware IO and to handle it yourself.  You can do that with calling
> csoundSetHostImplementedIO to disable csound from trying to open
> hardware devices.  From there, you could do your own hardware device
> opening, running of csound, and splitting of audio from the csound
> spout to the various hardware devices.
>
> On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 11:04 PM, imaia  wrote:
>> Ah thanks! It seems good the "--num-threads" option. I will use
>> csoundSetOption in my code.
>>
>> The only remaining question is how to route several channels from a single
>> csound instances to different soundcards?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Mixing-channels-from-different-csound-instances-tp5730035p5730437.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
>> csound6:
>>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
>> csound5:
>>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
> csound6:
>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
> csound5:
>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



-- 

Oeyvind Brandtsegg
Professor of Music Technology
NTNU
7491 Trondheim
Norway
Cell: +47 92 203 205

http://flyndresang.no/
http://www.partikkelaudio.com/
http://soundcloud.com/brandtsegg
http://soundcloud.com/t-emp

Just to chime in: An aggregate device can be done with alsa on Linux by creating a "multi" virtual device in your .asoundrc config file. 

Regards,
Anders



2 dec 2013 kl. 08:29 skrev Oeyvind Brandtsegg :

> Or you could create an aggregate device, combining several hardware
> devices into what looks like one device for Csound.
> On OSX it can be done in the system audio setup, under windows with
> ASIO4ALL, under Linux I'm not sure yet (must be possible).
> I did say earlier that you could do this in jack, but it seems I was
> wrong about tha, as jack only can relate to one hardware device at a
> time (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
> Oeyvind
> 
> 2013/12/2 Steven Yi :
>> The only way I see for doing that would be to disable csound's
>> hardware IO and to handle it yourself.  You can do that with calling
>> csoundSetHostImplementedIO to disable csound from trying to open
>> hardware devices.  From there, you could do your own hardware device
>> opening, running of csound, and splitting of audio from the csound
>> spout to the various hardware devices.
>> 
>> On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 11:04 PM, imaia  wrote:
>>> Ah thanks! It seems good the "--num-threads" option. I will use
>>> csoundSetOption in my code.
>>> 
>>> The only remaining question is how to route several channels from a single
>>> csound instances to different soundcards?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Mixing-channels-from-different-csound-instances-tp5730035p5730437.html
>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
>>> csound6:
>>>            https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
>>> csound5:
>>>            https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>> 
>> 
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
>> csound6:
>>            https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
>> csound5:
>>            https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Oeyvind Brandtsegg
> Professor of Music Technology
> NTNU
> 7491 Trondheim
> Norway
> Cell: +47 92 203 205
> 
> http://flyndresang.no/
> http://www.partikkelaudio.com/
> http://soundcloud.com/brandtsegg
> http://soundcloud.com/t-emp
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
> csound6:
>            https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
> csound5:
>            https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 

These are for API calls and they should be OK. Spinlocks are used in other places, here I think
mutexes are better suited.

Victor
On 29 Nov 2013, at 20:26, imaia  wrote:

> In Top/threadsafe.c , I can see "CsoundLockMutex" which makes the calling
> thread sleep. I think it would be better use spinlocks instead of mutex.