This week I'm buying a very capable euro-rack modular synth. Yes, I know that
Csound is vastly more powerful than a hardware synth in about 20 different
ways -- but there's something important to be said for playing an actual
physical musical instrument. Having dozens of single-function knobs and
jacks within easy reach appeals to the intuition (to my intuition, anyway)
in a way that typing code and grabbing sliders with the mouse just can't
match.

This is not an anti-Csound rant -- I've got an idea.

A surprising number of the newer euro modules are digital-analog hybrids.
Some use digital memory to store settings. Others have digital waveforms.
All have analog I/O.

So I'm thinking, wouldn't it be neat to have a euro-rack module that an
always-on Csound orchestra could be loaded into from a computer via USB?
This would be the ultimate Anything module. Need an 8-stage envelope
generator? Load one up. Need granular synthesis in your rack? An extra
waveshaper? Csound to the rescue!

Such a module wouldn't be cheap. In addition to a good CPU, it would need
high-resolution ADCs (about 8 of them, 4 for input jacks and 4 for knobs)
and DACs (about 4). It would also need persistent memory, so that it would
power up in the same configuration it had yesterday.

I'm not a hardware developer. I could never build something like this. But
I'll bet there are a couple of people in the Csound community who could.
(Maybe somebody is already working on it.)

Alternatively, the module itself could be "dumb," with just the knobs,
jacks, and a few switches and LEDs. It could be USB'd to a laptop where
Csound was running. That would be cheaper, but it would complicate the
modular rig concept.

So that's today's brainstorm. Does anyone have any thoughts about it?



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This is a great idea.  At the 2013 Csound Conference there was a  presentation of a Csound Eurorack sampler module.

One issue that arises here is knobs and switches. I suppose you could follow the example of Csound on Android and use a variety of manual controls mapped to precreated control channels, and similarly, use a set of patch jacks for cv and audio inputs and outputs that also have precreated channels.

Regards,
Mike

Andrew and Jason's Nebulae Csound module is killer. They have
interfaced several knobs together with a USB input on the front of
their module for loading samples. I believe they are about to do a
production run. They also intend to make the schematics available to
people for free. Nebulae is currently a fixed Csound instrument so to
speak, but they are looking into the possibility of users being able
to load their own instruments on it in time. It really turned my head
inside out thinking of the possibilities. Definitely one of the most
inspiring things I saw at the conference.

On 13 November 2013 17:22, Dominic Melville  wrote:
> A similar thought has crossed my mind. Decent quality AD and DA ICs from TI
> aren't as expensive as you'd think and nor is a basic clock, look how many
> rather good sounding cheap audio interfaces are out there. The CPU side of
> things I have no experience of though. It certainly is possible and I assume
> would need little in the way of an OS, if it's just to run a specially
> compiled Csound.
>
> So yes IMHO a good idea and worthy of research. Most companies like TI will
> give you enough "sample" ICs to build a prototype free, I've had plenty of
> VCAs etc from them for various projects.
>
> If someone with the CPU experience could chime in I'd be interested to see
> if that side of things is possible at a reasonable cost.
>
> Thoughts anyone?
>
> Dominic
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 13, 2013, Jim Aikin wrote:
>>
>> This week I'm buying a very capable euro-rack modular synth. Yes, I know
>> that
>> Csound is vastly more powerful than a hardware synth in about 20 different
>> ways -- but there's something important to be said for playing an actual
>> physical musical instrument. Having dozens of single-function knobs and
>> jacks within easy reach appeals to the intuition (to my intuition, anyway)
>> in a way that typing code and grabbing sliders with the mouse just can't
>> match.
>>
>> This is not an anti-Csound rant -- I've got an idea.
>>
>> A surprising number of the newer euro modules are digital-analog hybrids.
>> Some use digital memory to store settings. Others have digital waveforms.
>> All have analog I/O.
>>
>> So I'm thinking, wouldn't it be neat to have a euro-rack module that an
>> always-on Csound orchestra could be loaded into from a computer via USB?
>> This would be the ultimate Anything module. Need an 8-stage envelope
>> generator? Load one up. Need granular synthesis in your rack? An extra
>> waveshaper? Csound to the rescue!
>>
>> Such a module wouldn't be cheap. In addition to a good CPU, it would need
>> high-resolution ADCs (about 8 of them, 4 for input jacks and 4 for knobs)
>> and DACs (about 4). It would also need persistent memory, so that it would
>> power up in the same configuration it had yesterday.
>>
>> I'm not a hardware developer. I could never build something like this. But
>> I'll bet there are a couple of people in the Csound community who could.
>> (Maybe somebody is already working on it.)
>>
>> Alternatively, the module itself could be "dumb," with just the knobs,
>> jacks, and a few switches and LEDs. It could be USB'd to a laptop where
>> Csound was running. That would be cheaper, but it would complicate the
>> modular rig concept.
>>
>> So that's today's brainstorm. Does anyone have any thoughts about it?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-Euro-Rack-tp5729563.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
>> csound6:
>>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
>> csound5:
>>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>

Btw, Paul Batchelor also demonstrated how he's using multiple
Raspberry PIs to build multi-channel interfaces. If I'm not mistaken
he uses two PIs to give himself 4 outputs, and another one that acts
merely as a controller. In his talk he spoke about different
approaches he had to take in order to maximise efficiency. It showed
once again how simple it is to set up and run Csound on this new small
form devices.

On 13 November 2013 17:29, Rory Walsh  wrote:
> Andrew and Jason's Nebulae Csound module is killer. They have
> interfaced several knobs together with a USB input on the front of
> their module for loading samples. I believe they are about to do a
> production run. They also intend to make the schematics available to
> people for free. Nebulae is currently a fixed Csound instrument so to
> speak, but they are looking into the possibility of users being able
> to load their own instruments on it in time. It really turned my head
> inside out thinking of the possibilities. Definitely one of the most
> inspiring things I saw at the conference.
>
> On 13 November 2013 17:22, Dominic Melville  wrote:
>> A similar thought has crossed my mind. Decent quality AD and DA ICs from TI
>> aren't as expensive as you'd think and nor is a basic clock, look how many
>> rather good sounding cheap audio interfaces are out there. The CPU side of
>> things I have no experience of though. It certainly is possible and I assume
>> would need little in the way of an OS, if it's just to run a specially
>> compiled Csound.
>>
>> So yes IMHO a good idea and worthy of research. Most companies like TI will
>> give you enough "sample" ICs to build a prototype free, I've had plenty of
>> VCAs etc from them for various projects.
>>
>> If someone with the CPU experience could chime in I'd be interested to see
>> if that side of things is possible at a reasonable cost.
>>
>> Thoughts anyone?
>>
>> Dominic
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 13, 2013, Jim Aikin wrote:
>>>
>>> This week I'm buying a very capable euro-rack modular synth. Yes, I know
>>> that
>>> Csound is vastly more powerful than a hardware synth in about 20 different
>>> ways -- but there's something important to be said for playing an actual
>>> physical musical instrument. Having dozens of single-function knobs and
>>> jacks within easy reach appeals to the intuition (to my intuition, anyway)
>>> in a way that typing code and grabbing sliders with the mouse just can't
>>> match.
>>>
>>> This is not an anti-Csound rant -- I've got an idea.
>>>
>>> A surprising number of the newer euro modules are digital-analog hybrids.
>>> Some use digital memory to store settings. Others have digital waveforms.
>>> All have analog I/O.
>>>
>>> So I'm thinking, wouldn't it be neat to have a euro-rack module that an
>>> always-on Csound orchestra could be loaded into from a computer via USB?
>>> This would be the ultimate Anything module. Need an 8-stage envelope
>>> generator? Load one up. Need granular synthesis in your rack? An extra
>>> waveshaper? Csound to the rescue!
>>>
>>> Such a module wouldn't be cheap. In addition to a good CPU, it would need
>>> high-resolution ADCs (about 8 of them, 4 for input jacks and 4 for knobs)
>>> and DACs (about 4). It would also need persistent memory, so that it would
>>> power up in the same configuration it had yesterday.
>>>
>>> I'm not a hardware developer. I could never build something like this. But
>>> I'll bet there are a couple of people in the Csound community who could.
>>> (Maybe somebody is already working on it.)
>>>
>>> Alternatively, the module itself could be "dumb," with just the knobs,
>>> jacks, and a few switches and LEDs. It could be USB'd to a laptop where
>>> Csound was running. That would be cheaper, but it would complicate the
>>> modular rig concept.
>>>
>>> So that's today's brainstorm. Does anyone have any thoughts about it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-Euro-Rack-tp5729563.html
>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
>>> csound6:
>>>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
>>> csound5:
>>>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>

Did you check out http://www.csounds.com/journal/issue18/eurorack.html
We're still waiting for the presentations from the conference to be
put up online. I guess you'll find more information there once they
come on stream.

On 13 November 2013 18:03, Dominic Melville  wrote:
> I'm going to have to look into the Nebulae, not aware of this till now. The
> Raspberry option is a good one, but possibly limited CPU power. There are a
> few small scale computer boards about now that could be used.
>
> Can someone point me in the direction of some info on running or compiling
> Csound on such a thing please? I've got the tech skills to build the
> hardware, and although I've used Csound since my degree over ten years ago
> I'm only just learning C programming proper recently.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dominic
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 13, 2013, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>
>> Btw, Paul Batchelor also demonstrated how he's using multiple
>> Raspberry PIs to build multi-channel interfaces. If I'm not mistaken
>> he uses two PIs to give himself 4 outputs, and another one that acts
>> merely as a controller. In his talk he spoke about different
>> approaches he had to take in order to maximise efficiency. It showed
>> once again how simple it is to set up and run Csound on this new small
>> form devices.
>>
>> On 13 November 2013 17:29, Rory Walsh  wrote:
>> > Andrew and Jason's Nebulae Csound module is killer. They have
>> > interfaced several knobs together with a USB input on the front of
>> > their module for loading samples. I believe they are about to do a
>> > production run. They also intend to make the schematics available to
>> > people for free. Nebulae is currently a fixed Csound instrument so to
>> > speak, but they are looking into the possibility of users being able
>> > to load their own instruments on it in time. It really turned my head
>> > inside out thinking of the possibilities. Definitely one of the most
>> > inspiring things I saw at the conference.
>> >
>> > On 13 November 2013 17:22, Dominic Melville 
>> > wrote:
>> >> A similar thought has crossed my mind. Decent quality AD and DA ICs
>> >> from TI
>> >> aren't as expensive as you'd think and nor is a basic clock, look how
>> >> many
>> >> rather good sounding cheap audio interfaces are out there. The CPU side
>> >> of
>> >> things I have no experience of though. It certainly is possible and I
>> >> assume
>> >> would need little in the way of an OS, if it's just to run a specially
>> >> compiled Csound.
>> >>
>> >> So yes IMHO a good idea and worthy of research. Most companies like TI
>> >> will
>> >> give you enough "sample" ICs to build a prototype free, I've had plenty
>> >> of
>> >> VCAs etc from them for various projects.
>> >>
>> >> If someone with the CPU experience could chime in I'd be interested to
>> >> see
>> >> if that side of things is possible at a reasonable cost.
>> >>
>> >> Thoughts anyone?
>> >>
>> >> Dominic
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wednesday, November 13, 2013, Jim Aikin wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> This week I'm buying a very capable euro-rack modular synth. Yes, I
>> >>> know
>> >>> that
>> >>> Csound is vastly more powerful than a hardware synth in about 20
>> >>> different
>> >>> ways -- but there's something important to be said for playing an
>> >>> actual
>> >>> physical musical instrument. Having dozens of single-function knobs
>> >>> and
>> >>> jacks within easy reach appeals to the intuition (to my intuition,
>> >>> anyway)
>> >>> in a way that typing code and grabbing sliders with the mouse just
>> >>> can't
>> >>> match.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is not an anti-Csound rant -- I've got an idea.
>> >>>
>> >>> A surprising number of the newer euro modules are digital-analog
>> >>> hybrids.
>> >>> Some use digital memory to store settings. Others have digital
>> >>> waveforms.
>> >>> All have analog I/O.
>> >>>
>> >>> So I'm thinking, wouldn't it be neat to have a euro-rack module that
>> >>> an
>> >>> always-on Csound orchestra could be loaded into from a computer via
>> >>> USB?
>> >>> This would be the ultimate Anything module. Need an 8-stage envelope
>> >>> generator? Load one up. Need granular synthesis in your rack? An extra
>> >>> waveshaper? Csound to the rescue!
>> >>>
>> >>> Such a module wouldn't be cheap. In addition to a good CPU, it would
>> >>> need
>> >>> high-resolution ADCs (about 8 of them, 4 for input jacks and 4 for
>> >>> knobs)
>> >>> and DACs (about 4). It would also need persistent memory, so that it
>> >>> would
>> >>> power up in the same configuration it had yesterday.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm not a hardware developer. I could never build something like this.
>> >>> But
>> >>> I'll bet there are a couple of people in the Csound community who
>> >>> could.
>> >>> (Maybe somebody is already working on it.)
>> >>>
>> >>> Alternatively, the module itself could be "dumb," with just the knobs,
>> >>> jacks, and a few switches and LEDs. It could be USB'd to a laptop
>> >>> where
>> >>> Csound was running. That would be cheaper, but it would complicate the
>> >>> modular rig concept.
>> >>>
>> >>> So that's today's brainstorm. Does anyone have any thoughts about it?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> View this message in context:
>> >>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Csound-Euro-Rack-tp5729563.html
>> >>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers

Let us know how it turns out.

sent from a mobile device...

> Those are all very good ideas that you have for a Csound module. Jason and
I's module
> is geared towards being a single purpose module but can easily be modified
> to become
> an "anything" module. It's just a matter of changing the startup script.
> One thing the
> module does not have is audio input. We have plans to build a module in
> the future with
> audio input that is meant to be a "load your own .csd module". TI has some
> class
> compliant ADC/DACs that we are prototyping with. 
> 
> Dominic, you should look into using Arch linux on the Pi instead of
> Raspbian. We have
> found this to be a vast improvement in CPU performance. You will need to
> compile
> csound yourself though on arch. 
> 
> We will be doing a production run of our module in a few weeks and will
> also be publishing
> the source code, schematics and a hackers guide. Will let the list know
> when this
> happens!

It's exciting to learn that you're working on this.

A couple of the people on the muffwiggler euro forum mentioned the Monome
Aleph in this regard. It's not cheap ($1,400) and it's not built into a
rackable module, but it's user-programmable and has 4 audio ins, 4 audio
outs, 4 CV ins, 4 CV outs, 4 knobs, and a little LCD.

Apparently, user programming of the Aleph will be done directly in C, which
means that users will have to learn some audio DSP, or else be satisfied
with the code that others have uploaded. Csound would, to my way of
thinking, be a better choice ... but possibly I'm biased.

--JA



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