Hi,

probably unlikely, but can VST be included when building Csound on Ubuntu?
If so, how?

bye,
Menno

Hi,

Technically, it can be included, but it would only open Linux VSTs,
which you usually have to build yourself (I seem to recall it would
build on Linux, but I'm not 100% sure). As for licensing, I haven't
given it thought, but I suspect it would have the same distribution
issues as on other platforms.

Cheers,
Andrés

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:30 PM, menno  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> probably unlikely, but can VST be included when building Csound on Ubuntu?
> If so, how?
>
> bye,
> Menno
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/VST-tp1223537p1223537.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



-- 


Andrés


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
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It cannot be included until Steinberg changes the license for the VST
SDK. Sorry. Please ask them to do that. I have asked them several
times, but if enough people ask maybe they'll get the message.

Regards,
Mike

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Andres Cabrera  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Technically, it can be included, but it would only open Linux VSTs,
> which you usually have to build yourself (I seem to recall it would
> build on Linux, but I'm not 100% sure). As for licensing, I haven't
> given it thought, but I suspect it would have the same distribution
> issues as on other platforms.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrés
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:30 PM, menno  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> probably unlikely, but can VST be included when building Csound on Ubuntu?
>> If so, how?
>>
>> bye,
>> Menno
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/VST-tp1223537p1223537.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Andrés
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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perhaps something is possible with Csound and Vestige, like Ardour is doing.
http://ardour.org/node/2555
the text says that there is no need to deal with Steinberg anymore.

Menno

I know about vestige. If csound developers and sourceforge are okay with it I will do it.

MKG from cell phone

On Jul 15, 2010 2:28 PM, "menno" <nabob_cd@yahoo.com> wrote:


perhaps something is possible with Csound and Vestige, like Ardour is doing.
http://ardour.org/node/2555
the text says that there is no need to deal with Steinberg anymore.

Menno
--
View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/VST-tp1223537p1223669.html

Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


Send bugs reports to the Source...

Hi,

I think we should do this. Should we make it a separate download which
can be taken down painlessly in the remote scenario that Steinberg
complains?

Cheers,
Andrés

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Michael Gogins
 wrote:
> I know about vestige. If csound developers and sourceforge are okay with it
> I will do it.
>
> MKG from cell phone
>
> On Jul 15, 2010 2:28 PM, "menno"  wrote:
>
>
> perhaps something is possible with Csound and Vestige, like Ardour is doing.
> http://ardour.org/node/2555
> the text says that there is no need to deal with Steinberg anymore.
>
> Menno
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/VST-tp1223537p1223669.html
>
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Source...



-- 


Andrés


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

I'm not at all worried about what Steinberg thinks. I am not that
worried about what SourceForge thinks, because Vestige is available
there (aeffectx.h in Linux MultiMedia Studio). I am worried more about
what the Linux package people think, and what the other Csound
developers think.

I'd love to do this, but not if it's going to cause headaches for
Csound package maintenance.

Regards,
Mike

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Andres Cabrera  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think we should do this. Should we make it a separate download which
> can be taken down painlessly in the remote scenario that Steinberg
> complains?
>
> Cheers,
> Andrés
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Michael Gogins
>  wrote:
>> I know about vestige. If csound developers and sourceforge are okay with it
>> I will do it.
>>
>> MKG from cell phone
>>
>> On Jul 15, 2010 2:28 PM, "menno"  wrote:
>>
>>
>> perhaps something is possible with Csound and Vestige, like Ardour is doing.
>> http://ardour.org/node/2555
>> the text says that there is no need to deal with Steinberg anymore.
>>
>> Menno
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/VST-tp1223537p1223669.html
>>
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Source...
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Andrés
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

On 16/07/10 11:57, Michael Gogins wrote:
> I'm not at all worried about what Steinberg thinks. I am not that
> worried about what SourceForge thinks, because Vestige is available
> there (aeffectx.h in Linux MultiMedia Studio). I am worried more about
> what the Linux package people think, and what the other Csound
> developers think.

I am not at all familiar with the situation with the VST headers. Where
can I read up on that?


-- 
Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

Unfortunately the LMMS aeffectx.h header is GPL so we can't use it after all.

What this file is, is a backwards engineered VST SDK. Supposedly. To
satisfy a judge (but I am not a lawyer) I think probably the author of
this file would have to prove that he or she did not refer to any VST
SDK sources or documentation while preparing it. This is possible, but
would be a lot of work. On the other hand, Steinberg would have to
prove that the author DID look at copyrighted information. This may
not be possible, so it's a wash in my view. In civil law in the US,
cases are decided by "a preponderance of the evidence."

The backwards engineering is possible in principle because VST is a
protocol, not a library. It consists of a few data types, some
callback functions, and a bunch of "opcodes" for a generic callback
function that specify what the callback is supposed to do. In
principle, you can figure out what the protocol is by just using a
debugger with a VST plugin and host, or with a test plugin and a host.

I don't have the experience to figure out how difficult it would be to
reverse engineer the VST protocol as found in Vestige without knowing
anything copyrighted from the VST SDK. I am sure it is possible, I
just don't know if it would take hours, days, weeks, or months. Not
years, I think.

Vestige is GPL, so in principle, one can look at it, understand the
ideas, and then produce one's own LGPL version of it using different
names, formatting, etc., without "copying" anything. This would not be
hard. Copyright is about "expression" (identical text) not "ideas" (as
with patents).

Again, I am not a lawyer.

Hope this helps,
Mike
>

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Felipe Sateler  wrote:
> On 16/07/10 11:57, Michael Gogins wrote:
>> I'm not at all worried about what Steinberg thinks. I am not that
>> worried about what SourceForge thinks, because Vestige is available
>> there (aeffectx.h in Linux MultiMedia Studio). I am worried more about
>> what the Linux package people think, and what the other Csound
>> developers thin
> I am not at all familiar with the situation with the VST headers. Where
> can I read up on that?
>
>
> --
> Saludos,
> Felipe Sateler
>
>