I notice that only some of the entries to the Csound manual list the 
version of Csound that the opcodes was first released in. Could we make 
this standard?

Rory.

Maybe we can just start the practice of doing so from now on. I'm sure 
people will be adding new opcodes to Csound for many years to come, it's 
nice to know when things were added. I was shocked when I saw that 
pvsanal was already available in version 4.13!

Rory.





Andres Cabrera wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I think this kind of consistency is good, but determining the version
> of csound when opcodes appeared will be a massive archeological task,
> which I think serves no real purpose. If anyone wants to do it, it
> would be great, but I don't volunteer...
> 
> In the case of the examples, I also agree, and welcome any
> suggestions, just send me the modified files, and I'll put them in. (I
> can't volunteer for that either =) )
> 
> Cheers,
> Andrés
> 
> 
> On Jan 22, 2008 7:16 AM, Oeyvind Brandtsegg  wrote:
>> Agreed,
>> I also have another question:
>> The examples for each opcode uses different "approaches", for example
>> the oscil example defines named input variables,
>> but the prepiano example just use numbers.
>> I find that the way it's done in the oscil example is more readable,
>> but it will lead to a lot of example code for more complex opcodes
>> (e.g. prepiano with 17 input parameters, or partikkel with 40).
>> I think the readability issue is even more important for the complex opcodes,
>> what do others think ?
>>
>> Oeyvind
>>
>> 2008/1/22, Rory Walsh :
>>
>>> I notice that only some of the entries to the Csound manual list the
>>> version of Csound that the opcodes was first released in. Could we make
>>> this standard?
>>>
>>> Rory.
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Perhaps for the next big Csound anniversary someone could produce a 
Csound opcode time-line including all the previous music N programs that 
led to Csound. The evolution of Csound ain't finished yet!

Rory.


Andres Cabrera wrote:
> Yes, people have been doing that for sometime, and I think it is
> common practice now. It would be really nice to see the evolution of
> csound in the manual, but it's a lot of work...
> 
> Cheers,
> Andrés

Rory Walsh wrote:
> I notice that only some of the entries to the Csound manual list the
> version of Csound that the opcodes was first released in. Could we make
> this standard?

All opcodes from version 3.20 up to at least 4.22 were so documented.
Some care was taken to make the notes as accurate as possible,
but errors and omissions of course remain.

Some early opcodes to update include
fof - Csound V1 April 11, 1990 (see below)
convolve - Csound 3.28 (can't remember who or how I found that, anyway it exists in 3.30)
granule - Csound 3.35 (jpff changelog) 


Manual maintainers in the last several years have kept up the date entry habit
(and I'm sure they've done a grand job!)

So, the undated opcodes can somewhat reasonably be assumed to have been
present in Csound 3.0. Is there big reason to have detail from earlier times?
The purpose of the version entries was that a flurry of versions was released from
several different sources during those years, and users had trouble keeping up.

Some opcode counts:
feb 1988   V2+:  160  (in entry.c)
may 1995 v 3.30:  217 (ca, looks more due to clumsy naming that was fixed in 3.48)
oct 1998 v 3.50:  522  (listed by -z)
june 2000 v 4.06:  621  (listed by -z)


Between initial release and 3.0 there were fewer updates released,
and scant documentation of changes (some can be found by reading code).
The notes mostly concern functionality and bug fixes.

HTH,

	re



Notes for the Feb 19, 1988 distribution:

===== file 'csound.history' =====
14aug87: original ftp distribution
19aug87: added bulletin board info to README
19feb88: fixes to lpc anals and LINEN
21jun88: fixed to run under Sun4 RISC compiler
19sep88: changes and new Makefile to run on Macintosh II under MPW
11apr90: fixed acpsoct, added FOF (no docs yet), Think_C compatible
16apr90: replaced scanf (bugs in Think_C 4.0)
===== eof =====

Notes for Csound 3.0 omits the preceding:

===== file 'EarlyHistory.txt' =====
Feb 6  '91	Unix: initial release of Csound V2;	Mac: parallel release
Feb 11		Unix: small bug fixes, diagrams for manual
Feb 26		Unix: small bugs, fixes for SG-Unix
Feb 28			Mac: Audiomedia & graphs fix;	MIDI to Csound released
Mar 28		Unix: small bugs;			Mac: AIFF sound files added
Aug 15		Unix: Beta sources put on ftp
Oct 15		Unix: can perform from midi scorefiles	Mac: ditto
		Unix: can perform from MIDI keyboard
Feb 15 '92	Unix: improved realtime performance
Apr 17		Unix: more improvements
Jul 24		Unix + Mac: Beta version now the standard;  Manual now in Word
Feb 4  '93	Unix + Mac: Beta with audio anals built in;  Manual also in PS.
===== eof =====

The examples vary greatly in quality to begin with -- many of them seem to
be good for nothing other than showing the general syntax of an opcode.  I
have noticed "bad" examples in the past that do not even produce reasonable
audio output or seem to have been written by someone who had no idea what
the opcode is used for.

There were still a lot of inconsistencies in opcode descriptions the last
time I checked too.  Many of the opcodes used to be grouped together on
pages (eg. expon and line).  When the manual was converted to a
one-page-per-opcode layout, the descriptions were often not rewritten to
take this into account.  Thus, you find cryptic statements on some pages
like this one on the "line" opcode page:

ia -- starting value. Zero is illegal for exponentials.

Andres and others have been silently fixing up a lot of problems with the
manual, but it would be best if ALL users helped us comb through the entire
thing for errors, inconsistencies, bad examples, etc.  Maybe we could have
an organized "manual error hunt" week or something ...

So, please report specific manual problems when you find them.  (Oops -- I
think I just incriminated my failure to do so ... ;)

Anthony Kozar
mailing-lists-1001 AT anthonykozar DOT net
http://anthonykozar.net/

Oeyvind Brandtsegg wrote on 1/22/08 7:16 AM:

> Agreed,
> I also have another question:
> The examples for each opcode uses different "approaches", for example
> the oscil example defines named input variables,
> but the prepiano example just use numbers.
> I find that the way it's done in the oscil example is more readable,
> but it will lead to a lot of example code for more complex opcodes
> (e.g. prepiano with 17 input parameters, or partikkel with 40).
> I think the readability issue is even more important for the complex opcodes,
> what do others think ?
> 
> Oeyvind
> 
> 2008/1/22, Rory Walsh :
>> I notice that only some of the entries to the Csound manual list the
>> version of Csound that the opcodes was first released in. Could we make
>> this standard?

rasmus wrote on 1/22/08 7:01 PM:

> Some opcode counts:
> feb 1988   V2+:  160  (in entry.c)
> may 1995 v 3.30:  217 (ca, looks more due to clumsy naming that was fixed in
> 3.48)
> oct 1998 v 3.50:  522  (listed by -z)
> june 2000 v 4.06:  621  (listed by -z)

Jan. 2008, v 5.08 beta: 1264    ^_^

(this is on MacOS 9 which does not include many of the optional opcode
libraries such as FLTK, fluid, STK, etc.)

Anthony Kozar
mailing-lists-1001 AT anthonykozar DOT net
http://anthonykozar.net/

Andres Cabrera wrote:
> Hi rasmus,
> 
> Interesting info. I've added the information you've provided to the entries.
> 
> Just to double check, fof was added to version 1?

An unnumbered update to V1, yes. As per the notes quoted below.
The 1988 version could still be picked up from an MIT server in year 2000.
The 3.30 distro I stumbled over just recently through some ftp archiver bot.

I've managed to lose all other versions pre 2001 when swapping hard disks
some time (and good riddance, there's enough dusty old junk to go around).

>> Notes for the Feb 19, 1988 distribution:

Well. Guess I should explain how a "1988 distribution" can contain notes for 1990.
It doesn't. "csound.history" file was (if I recall) found at the mit.edu ftp 
where I grabbed the oldest version I could see.

>> ===== file 'csound.history' =====
>> 14aug87: original ftp distribution
>> 19aug87: added bulletin board info to README
>> 19feb88: fixes to lpc anals and LINEN
>> 21jun88: fixed to run under Sun4 RISC compiler
>> 19sep88: changes and new Makefile to run on Macintosh II under MPW
>> 11apr90: fixed acpsoct, added FOF (no docs yet), Think_C compatible
>> 16apr90: replaced scanf (bugs in Think_C 4.0)
>> ===== eof =====
>>
>> Notes for Csound 3.0 omits the preceding:

This is from a set of ASCII manual files for 3.30, but dated later, 1999.
Probably same thing here: a text file at the ftp from wherever I grabbed the files.
Not likely to have been called "EarlyHistory.txt" in original form.

>> ===== file 'EarlyHistory.txt' =====
>> Feb 6  '91      Unix: initial release of Csound V2;     Mac: parallel release
>> Feb 11          Unix: small bug fixes, diagrams for manual
>> Feb 26          Unix: small bugs, fixes for SG-Unix
>> Feb 28                  Mac: Audiomedia & graphs fix;   MIDI to Csound released
>> Mar 28          Unix: small bugs;                       Mac: AIFF sound files added
>> Aug 15          Unix: Beta sources put on ftp
>> Oct 15          Unix: can perform from midi scorefiles  Mac: ditto
>>                 Unix: can perform from MIDI keyboard
>> Feb 15 '92      Unix: improved realtime performance
>> Apr 17          Unix: more improvements
>> Jul 24          Unix + Mac: Beta version now the standard;  Manual now in Word
>> Feb 4  '93      Unix + Mac: Beta with audio anals built in;  Manual also in PS.
>> ===== eof =====
>>

You can have the files if you like. (Please. I don't want them, who cares about all this...! ;)

	re

Andres Cabrera wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Jan 22, 2008 8:25 PM, rasmus  wrote:
>> You can have the files if you like. (Please. I don't want them, who cares about all this...! ;)
>>
>>         re
>>
> 
> It might be fun to see them =)

http://www.abc.se/~re/Stuff/