I just wondered what the story was behind this website.
What squatter nabbed csound.com before the csound community
did, how did that happen, and how much do they want for it?

Tobiah

Tobiah wrote:
> I just wondered what the story was behind this website.
> What squatter nabbed csound.com before the csound community
> did, how did that happen, and how much do they want for it?
> 
> Tobiah
> 
> 

I'm starting to get the feeling that I've been here before
(hear CSNY), but why does Dr. B own 'csound.org' and it doesn't
alias csounds.com?

Tobiah

Tobiah,

Many years ago, (a few before The Csound Book was complete) one of my  
coolest Csound students at Berklee bought the
domain name and planned to develop the site and grow the community  
around it....   He actually planned to give it to me fully developed
as a gift, but... his life got complicated - and he accidently let the  
renewal of the name/owner slip away - and someone else grabbed it....

I keep waiting for csound.com to expire - and I have contacted the  
company in Korea that sells synths - to see if I could buy it from  
them...
but no answer or ?

Yes I do own - csound.org - and the fact that it does not alias to  
csounds.com is an oversight.  I will look into that shortly.  Thanks  
for reminding me
to do this.

Dr. B.

================================================
   Dr. Richard Boulanger
   Professor of Electronic Production and Design
   Music Technology Division
   Berklee College of Music
   1140 Boylston Street
   Boston, MA 02135
   rboulanger@berklee.edu
   http://csounds.com/boulanger
   617-747-2485 (office)
=================================================

On Apr 20, 2009, at 7:29 PM, Tobiah wrote:

> I just wondered what the story was behind this website.
> What squatter nabbed csound.com before the csound community
> did, how did that happen, and how much do they want for it?
>
> Tobiah
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"

By the way... I don't twitter, but if I did... I would tell you that I  
am sitting here at Max Mathews home talking about Music5 and Csound
over a glass of rum - this very afternoon - and I should get back to  
that!

-dB

================================================
   Dr. Richard Boulanger
   Professor of Electronic Production and Design
   Music Technology Division
   Berklee College of Music
   1140 Boylston Street
   Boston, MA 02135
   rboulanger@berklee.edu
   http://csounds.com/boulanger
   617-747-2485 (office)
=================================================

On Apr 20, 2009, at 7:32 PM, Tobiah wrote:

> Tobiah wrote:
>> I just wondered what the story was behind this website.
>> What squatter nabbed csound.com before the csound community
>> did, how did that happen, and how much do they want for it?
>> Tobiah
>
> I'm starting to get the feeling that I've been here before
> (hear CSNY), but why does Dr. B own 'csound.org' and it doesn't
> alias csounds.com?
>
> Tobiah
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"

Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
> Tobiah,
> 
> Many years ago, (a few before The Csound Book was complete) one of my 
> coolest Csound students at Berklee bought the
> domain name and planned to develop the site and grow the community 
> around it....   He actually planned to give it to me fully developed
> as a gift, but... his life got complicated - and he accidently let the 
> renewal of the name/owner slip away - and someone else grabbed it....
> 
> I keep waiting for csound.com to expire - and I have contacted the 
> company in Korea that sells synths - to see if I could buy it from them...
> but no answer or ?

I just checked csound.com, and it's for sale. Am I confused or is this good news?

Mike

Wow.... tell me where I can purchase the name.  I just checked at  
network solutions - and they say that
csound.com is taken.

-dr.B.

================================================
   Dr. Richard Boulanger
   Professor of Electronic Production and Design
   Music Technology Division
   Berklee College of Music
   1140 Boylston Street
   Boston, MA 02135
   rboulanger@berklee.edu
   http://csounds.com/boulanger
   617-747-2485 (office)
=================================================

On Apr 21, 2009, at 1:00 AM, Michael Mossey wrote:

>
>
> Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
>> Tobiah,
>> Many years ago, (a few before The Csound Book was complete) one of  
>> my coolest Csound students at Berklee bought the
>> domain name and planned to develop the site and grow the community  
>> around it....   He actually planned to give it to me fully developed
>> as a gift, but... his life got complicated - and he accidently let  
>> the renewal of the name/owner slip away - and someone else grabbed  
>> it....
>> I keep waiting for csound.com to expire - and I have contacted the  
>> company in Korea that sells synths - to see if I could buy it from  
>> them...
>> but no answer or ?
>
> I just checked csound.com, and it's for sale. Am I confused or is  
> this good news?
>
> Mike
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"

The domain "csound.com" is not available.

If i were to make a prediction, i would say that it will never be 
available, since reserving a domain one does not use is so easy to do.
Unless the planet becomes really-really poor, people that reserve such 
useless (to them) domain, will have no reason to let go. In which case, 
i suspect that we will not be interested, as well.

Aside all these, the domain itself is of no real importance. Major 
search engines evaluate the content of any given web site, not the 
domain or the site title. Anyone can confirm immediately that Google 
indeed presents "csounds.com" as the first result when one types 
"csound" as a search term.

In order for this to change, one should create a web site, with more 
content than "csounds.com", and have the "csound.com" domain as well. 
This is very unlikely to happen.

On a more national level, i would suggest that people interested go on 
and reserve "csounds.xxx" or "csound.xxx" and re-direct any hits to 
"csounds.com", as a service to the csound community. Perhaps someone of 
the "Csound Elders" could co-ordinate this. Note, that the best solution 
(reserve a national domain name and donate it to Dr. B., may not be 
feasible, due to restrictions in local registries that require some sort 
of physical presence of any given institution or organization in order 
to provide a local domain name.

Panos




Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
> Wow.... tell me where I can purchase the name.  I just checked at 
> network solutions - and they say that
> csound.com is taken.
> 
> -dr.B.
> 
> ================================================
>   Dr. Richard Boulanger
>   Professor of Electronic Production and Design
>   Music Technology Division
>   Berklee College of Music
>   1140 Boylston Street
>   Boston, MA 02135
>   rboulanger@berklee.edu
>   http://csounds.com/boulanger
>   617-747-2485 (office)
> =================================================
> 
> On Apr 21, 2009, at 1:00 AM, Michael Mossey wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
>>> Tobiah,
>>> Many years ago, (a few before The Csound Book was complete) one of my 
>>> coolest Csound students at Berklee bought the
>>> domain name and planned to develop the site and grow the community 
>>> around it....   He actually planned to give it to me fully developed
>>> as a gift, but... his life got complicated - and he accidently let 
>>> the renewal of the name/owner slip away - and someone else grabbed 
>>> it....
>>> I keep waiting for csound.com to expire - and I have contacted the 
>>> company in Korea that sells synths - to see if I could buy it from 
>>> them...
>>> but no answer or ?
>>
>> I just checked csound.com, and it's for sale. Am I confused or is this 
>> good news?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>> "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe 
> csound"
> 

Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
> Wow.... tell me where I can purchase the name.  I just checked at 
> network solutions - and they say that
> csound.com is taken.
> 
> -dr.B.
> 

I entered http://csound.com in my browser, and it took me to a page that was 
obviously one of these "holding" (or whatever they are called) pages, at the bottom a 
note said the domain was for sale through fabulous.com. I clicked on the link to 
fabulous.com and reached a page where I could make an offer for csound.com.

I went ahead and made an offer of $100... somehow I doubt they will be interested, 
but if it succeeds, I'll donate the domain.

-Mike

Mike,

Wow. Interesting.  I never found the "for sale" link.  Cool news.
Keep us/me posted. I would be happy to reimburse you, if you get it.....
I would love to have it and have it point to csounds.com.

-dB

================================================
   Dr. Richard Boulanger
   Professor of Electronic Production and Design
   Music Technology Division
   Berklee College of Music
   1140 Boylston Street
   Boston, MA 02135
   rboulanger@berklee.edu
   http://csounds.com/boulanger
   617-747-2485 (office)
=================================================

On Apr 21, 2009, at 4:39 AM, Michael Mossey wrote:

>
>
> Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
>> Wow.... tell me where I can purchase the name.  I just checked at  
>> network solutions - and they say that
>> csound.com is taken.
>> -dr.B.
>
> I entered http://csound.com in my browser, and it took me to a page  
> that was obviously one of these "holding" (or whatever they are  
> called) pages, at the bottom a note said the domain was for sale  
> through fabulous.com. I clicked on the link to fabulous.com and  
> reached a page where I could make an offer for csound.com.
>
> I went ahead and made an offer of $100... somehow I doubt they will  
> be interested, but if it succeeds, I'll donate the domain.
>
> -Mike
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"

Perhaps, you did not pay enough attention to my post?
The domain is not available.


Panos




Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
> Mike,
> 
> Wow. Interesting.  I never found the "for sale" link.  Cool news.
> Keep us/me posted. I would be happy to reimburse you, if you get it.....
> I would love to have it and have it point to csounds.com.
> 
> -dB

Hello Panos,

I did pay attention to your very thoughtful and informative and  
positive post.
And thanks for your feedback and suggestions and advice.

I will echo here again... that my efforts to purchase csound.com over
the years have not been too successful, but...  maybe in this market
Michael will succeed.

Always hopeful...

Dr. B.


On Apr 21, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Panos Katergiathis wrote:

>
> Perhaps, you did not pay enough attention to my post?
> The domain is not available.
>
>
> Panos
>
>
>
>
> Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
>> Mike,
>> Wow. Interesting.  I never found the "for sale" link.  Cool news.
>> Keep us/me posted. I would be happy to reimburse you, if you get  
>> it.....
>> I would love to have it and have it point to csounds.com.
>> -dB
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"

Panos Katergiathis wrote:
> 
> Perhaps, you did not pay enough attention to my post?
> The domain is not available.

Maybe there is trouble here making a distinction between
'available' and 'for sale'.  Every domain name is for sale,
although some have very high price tags indeed.  What about
google.com... 100 Billion maybe?

Tobiah

Panos Katergiathis wrote:
> 
> Perhaps, you did not pay enough attention to my post?
> The domain is not available.
> 

Where are you getting that information?

What does it mean if one goes to csound.com and finds a link to a page saying that it 
  is for sale?

-Mike

Tobiah wrote:
> Panos Katergiathis wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps, you did not pay enough attention to my post?
>> The domain is not available.
> 
> Maybe there is trouble here making a distinction between
> 'available' and 'for sale'.  Every domain name is for sale,
> although some have very high price tags indeed.  What about
> google.com... 100 Billion maybe?

There's also the distinction that some owners are actively trying to sell their 
domains, which appears to the be the case with csound.com. At least it appears so 
from the link to fabulous.com, but I'm not sure.

-Mike

Hello

A conversation about domain names and such is absolutely off-topic.
However, since you insist, here are some answers.

a) A domain's availability is a pretty specific thing. It can be checked 
  via any registrar (such as Networksolutions). In the case of 
"csound.com", the domain is not available.

b) This means that someone has already registered it. If the 
registration was made by a person or an organization that has an 
interest in csound itself, we would be able to see some web site under 
that domain, with some content about csound. This is not the case.

c) Unfortunately, this usually means that someone has registered the 
domain in the hope that (sometime in the future) some profit may rise 
out of it, in the sense that other parties may see some value 
(commercial or otherwise) in acquiring and using the domain. That might 
result in them purchasing the domain for a value much bigger than the 
few dollars usually required on a yearly basis for domain ownership.

d) The key-term is "few dollars". People and organizations that engage 
in this type of activity (keeping domain names "parked" for serving some 
future need) are out of control: the law does not prohibit such use and 
the cost for doing it is indeed very low. So there is no motive for them 
to get rid of the domain prior to achieving a proper price for it.

e) Such parked domains usually display something like the content one 
encounters in "csound.com" as it is right now: some advertising, some 
pictures, some links and a form for submitting the amount of money one 
would be willing to pay for acquiring the domain. It is possible that no 
one actually reads such submissions unless the amount of money proposed 
is bigger than a pre-specified figure (which of course we don't know 
what it is).

f) Based on the above, i predict that "csound.com" will remain "parked", 
unless - at some point - the csound community decides to make a really 
generous bid for it, but since we don't know what "generous" may mean, 
chances are that we will keep on failing. Not to mention that if someone 
typed an amount such as e.g. 5.000 dollars (that is, give thousand) it 
may only result in the owner having his/hers hopes raised and decide to 
wait a little longer for an even higher bid.

Concluding : a bidding process that has no expiration date, no minimum 
amount of money related, not showing the contact information of the 
person organizing the bid can NOT be a valid one.

Of course... i could be wrong... :) (that was a joke, sorry for my 
less-than-perfect english).

Kind Regards

Panos






Michael Mossey wrote:
> 
> 
> Tobiah wrote:
>> Panos Katergiathis wrote:
>>>
>>> Perhaps, you did not pay enough attention to my post?
>>> The domain is not available.
>>
>> Maybe there is trouble here making a distinction between
>> 'available' and 'for sale'.  Every domain name is for sale,
>> although some have very high price tags indeed.  What about
>> google.com... 100 Billion maybe?
> 
> There's also the distinction that some owners are actively trying to 
> sell their domains, which appears to the be the case with csound.com. At 
> least it appears so from the link to fabulous.com, but I'm not sure.
> 
> -Mike
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe 
> csound"
> 

Panos Katergiathis wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> A conversation about domain names and such is absolutely off-topic.
> However, since you insist, here are some answers.

Panos,

I disagree that it's off topic.

I think you have some very good points, but I must say that I find your 
condescension distressing. You could have given us all the same information, but 
kept your replies respectful.

Mike

Hello Michael

I am not sure what you mean.
As i already pointed out, my english is less than perfect.
So, perhaps some of my natural politeness is lost in translation?

Kind Regards

Panos




Michael P Mossey wrote:
> I think you have some very good points, but I must say that I find your 
> condescension distressing. You could have given us all the same 
> information, but kept your replies respectful.

Panos Katergiathis wrote:
> 
..
> 
> f) Based on the above, i predict that "csound.com" will remain "parked", 
> unless - at some point - the csound community decides to make a really 
> generous bid for it, but since we don't know what "generous" may mean, 
> chances are that we will keep on failing. Not to mention that if someone 
> typed an amount such as e.g. 5.000 dollars (that is, give thousand) it 
> may only result in the owner having his/hers hopes raised and decide to 
> wait a little longer for an even higher bid.
> 

All of which rather ignores the fact that (a)  Csound already has a 
long-established and well-known website with a perfectly suitable name 
and (b) Csound is not a commercial product, whether as a language or as 
software. The arguments about  a "proper price" are somewhat unlikely in 
this respect. Sure,  domain names clearly targeting a major company or 
product type may sell for high sums, but Csound is not one such. A bid 
of $100  is already generous IMO! Basically, it would be nice to have, 
but we can manage without it as we already have done. So it may well be 
a sort of zombie domain, with someone waiting forever for a bid that 
will never arrive; but without trying one will never know one way or the 
other. And no sane company would these days bring to market some product 
called "csound", be it audio related or concerning waterproof duct tape.

Richard Dobson

I don't know if this is still the case, but there was a time when
searching for domains on network solutions resulted in them
immediately claiming and squatting and offering it for registration
for a ridiculous amount.
I literally found dozens of almost identical blog posts like this:
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/web_services_browser/network_solutions_domain_squatter.html

It's not impossible that someone else (less susceptible to popular
outrage, perhaps) could do the same.  Generally the idea was that a
registrar can get their money back with no questions asked after a
certain period, so they had nothing to lose by jumping on domains
people searched at their site, then, if the people didn't cave in and
register through them (for an outrageous price), they could just
release it after a week or two with no loss, at which point the poor
person with the original idea would have to contend with other
squatters who were now aware that it was becoming available.

I searched for a domain at their site, saw it was available, and then
found it unavailable at every other site; still showing as available
from their search alone.

I'm pretty sure Network Solutions stopped, because they have something
to lose from popular outrage, but maybe this is something to look into
before dropping hundreds of dollars.
-Chuckk


On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Dr. Richard Boulanger
 wrote:
> Wow.... tell me where I can purchase the name.  I just checked at network
> solutions - and they say that
> csound.com is taken.
>
> -dr.B.
>
> ================================================
>  Dr. Richard Boulanger
>  Professor of Electronic Production and Design
>  Music Technology Division
>  Berklee College of Music
>  1140 Boylston Street
>  Boston, MA 02135
>  rboulanger@berklee.edu
>  http://csounds.com/boulanger
>  617-747-2485 (office)
> =================================================
>
> On Apr 21, 2009, at 1:00 AM, Michael Mossey wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
>>>
>>> Tobiah,
>>> Many years ago, (a few before The Csound Book was complete) one of my
>>> coolest Csound students at Berklee bought the
>>> domain name and planned to develop the site and grow the community around
>>> it....   He actually planned to give it to me fully developed
>>> as a gift, but... his life got complicated - and he accidently let the
>>> renewal of the name/owner slip away - and someone else grabbed it....
>>> I keep waiting for csound.com to expire - and I have contacted the
>>> company in Korea that sells synths - to see if I could buy it from them...
>>> but no answer or ?
>>
>> I just checked csound.com, and it's for sale. Am I confused or is this
>> good news?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>



-- 
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com

Panos Katergiathis wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> A conversation about domain names and such is absolutely off-topic.
> However, since you insist, here are some answers.

I'm still not sure about the semantics (read: implied intent) of
your posts about this.  You state rather firmly that the domain
name is 'not available' (I now take that to mean that this community,
try as it may, can not conceivably ever own the name).  You make 
some interesting points about why it may be unlikely, but they are
not iron clad.

As to your English, I think that it rivals, or surpasses my own in
clarity and structure.  I'm a native speaker of the language 
(well, if you can count California in that pool).

Also, as to whether the subject is on topic, I believe that it is
very much so.  The future of csound is tightly tied to its presence
on the internet, and quite soundly tied to that, is the internet name
under which it can be found.

Tobiah