Toby,

Good questions. I've waited to respond until my current project was 
completed and posted. Please pardon the lengthy response.

I've often asked myself these questions - not only in regard to Android, but 
to many of my non-traditional projects over recent years. As a matter of 
fact, I'm not sure that what I do any more can be called "writing music." 
Rather, perhaps, "being creative with sound" - or, closer, "creating sonic 
environments." Or maybe "environment paradigms for others to fill with their 
own materials".

But why *this* project?

1) Yes, it does qualify as "geeky experiment." I like to see what can be 
done in a restricted musical setting. What can be done creatively with 
limited resources?

2) Thanks to John Cage, I like to expand my "music box" - my notion of "what 
is music?"

3) I'd much prefer doing creative projects for which I have ideas (and am 
inspired), than not (am not inspired).

4) I'm fascinated by new technology; OTOH I am loathe to get involved 
(because of steep learning curves) unless I see new creative potential that 
seems worth the effort. (So many new products, including my Androids, come 
with such minimal documentation.) In this case, my son (a software 
developer) gifted me with a Samsung Tab 2 7.0; and Csound (thanks to Victor 
and Steven) had been ported to Android. My son is developing media apps for 
Android. I took his challenge to see what might be done by a "regular 
composer" (not a programmer) with Csound on Android. Also, apparently noone 
had yet written a .csd specifically for Victor's CSD Player performance GUI. 
As Android currently lacks MIDI, and my realtime projects use MIDI, I was 
eager to see what Victor's GUI could do (and create a real musical demo for 
it).

5) I've always been a (cheap) minimalist. Prior to the Samsung tablet gift, 
I'd actually purchased a $65 Chinese tablet (Android 2.3) on eBay, just to 
dabble with. (My wife has an Android phone for her business, though I am 
purposefully cellphone-less.) I've made sure that my project also works on 
the $65 device.
(BTW, I've ascertained that my Android devices can render my project without 
glitches at a max of 8000 SR stereo and at no lower than -b256, which *must* 
be specified in CsOptions for reasonable latency. The number "256" is thanks 
to Victor.)

6) I've been particularly interested in low-cost electronics - including XO 
(One Laptop Per Child/Sugar on a Stick) systems. Most of my recent Csound 
(realtime MIDI) creations I've ported to Sugar, for children. Indeed, 
CHIMEPAD was developed as an outgrowth of CHIMEPLAY for XO/Sugar, which 
*began* as a "regular" Csound project. I've always been interested in what 
can be done with less.
(And BTW also, I've found that the current Androids - at least mine - are 
roughly as capable as the XO laptops.)

7) Regarding keyboards and "development work": on the XO I plug in a 
full-size keyboard and do *some* work there. More extensive editing I do on 
my Windows desktop and transfer via thumb drive. I can do virtually nothing 
with the XO keyboard, and even less with the onscreen typing (or 
mini-keypads) of tablets (not to mention phones). For my tablets, I 
"develop" on my desktop, then transfer files either via USB cable (Samsung 
tablet) or thumb drive (my $65 tablet). Both processes are tedious, though 
the former much less so - definitely workable. (I found trying to edit 
onscreen on the Samsung excruciatingly frustrating; I could not type a word 
without mistake, and my touch-typing skill was of no use whatsoever.)

So, often - even during the "compositional" process, I find myself asking, 
"*Why* am I doing this? Shouldn't I be spending my [precious] time 'writing 
real music'?"

My ultimate response/rationale: follow the muse.

Art Hunkins

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Toby" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Csnd] fout on Android?


> I'm just curious; what is the appeal of running csound on a phone or 
> tablet?
> Is it just a geeky experiment, or do you actually want to write music on
> Android?
>
> I suppose I could see doing it with an external keyboard.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tobiah
>
> On 09/10/2012 07:21 PM, Art Hunkins wrote:
>> Should it be possible to use fout in Android Csound similar to other 
>> platforms?
>>
>> I've got a realtime file rendering just fine, but there is no sign of a 
>> designated WAV file writing anywhere. (I've done a complete searchy of 
>> user storage.)
>>
>> In the "error window" there's no sign of anything going awry either.
>>
>> I assume there are no special CsOptions that need to be specified, nor 
>> any fancy way the output filepath must be listed. My fout line is:
>> fout "ChimePad.wav", 4, ga1, ga2
>>
>> Art Hunkins
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe 
>> csound"
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe 
> csound"
> 

I wish there was a "like" button for posts to this list. This is one of the best and most inspirational posts of late. I am not a programmer nor a composer, but as a psychacoustician I am fascinated by general perception and especially form and content of sound. The mystic realm of computer generated sound is very attractive because I can use my knowledge in maths and physics to setup functions and algorithms that create sound, but I don't know what it will sound like until I hear it, and what it sounds like is almost always impossible to describe. So without any real musical talent I can create interesting and fascinating "music". That is why I like (love?) csound. 

/Anders

14 sep 2012 kl. 17:53 skrev "Art Hunkins" :

> Toby,
> 
> Good questions. I've waited to respond until my current project was completed and posted. Please pardon the lengthy response.
> 
> I've often asked myself these questions - not only in regard to Android, but to many of my non-traditional projects over recent years. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure that what I do any more can be called "writing music." Rather, perhaps, "being creative with sound" - or, closer, "creating sonic environments." Or maybe "environment paradigms for others to fill with their own materials".
> 
> But why *this* project?
> 
> 1) Yes, it does qualify as "geeky experiment." I like to see what can be done in a restricted musical setting. What can be done creatively with limited resources?
> 
> 2) Thanks to John Cage, I like to expand my "music box" - my notion of "what is music?"
> 
> 3) I'd much prefer doing creative projects for which I have ideas (and am inspired), than not (am not inspired).
> 
> 4) I'm fascinated by new technology; OTOH I am loathe to get involved (because of steep learning curves) unless I see new creative potential that seems worth the effort. (So many new products, including my Androids, come with such minimal documentation.) In this case, my son (a software developer) gifted me with a Samsung Tab 2 7.0; and Csound (thanks to Victor and Steven) had been ported to Android. My son is developing media apps for Android. I took his challenge to see what might be done by a "regular composer" (not a programmer) with Csound on Android. Also, apparently noone had yet written a .csd specifically for Victor's CSD Player performance GUI. As Android currently lacks MIDI, and my realtime projects use MIDI, I was eager to see what Victor's GUI could do (and create a real musical demo for it).
> 
> 5) I've always been a (cheap) minimalist. Prior to the Samsung tablet gift, I'd actually purchased a $65 Chinese tablet (Android 2.3) on eBay, just to dabble with. (My wife has an Android phone for her business, though I am purposefully cellphone-less.) I've made sure that my project also works on the $65 device.
> (BTW, I've ascertained that my Android devices can render my project without glitches at a max of 8000 SR stereo and at no lower than -b256, which *must* be specified in CsOptions for reasonable latency. The number "256" is thanks to Victor.)
> 
> 6) I've been particularly interested in low-cost electronics - including XO (One Laptop Per Child/Sugar on a Stick) systems. Most of my recent Csound (realtime MIDI) creations I've ported to Sugar, for children. Indeed, CHIMEPAD was developed as an outgrowth of CHIMEPLAY for XO/Sugar, which *began* as a "regular" Csound project. I've always been interested in what can be done with less.
> (And BTW also, I've found that the current Androids - at least mine - are roughly as capable as the XO laptops.)
> 
> 7) Regarding keyboards and "development work": on the XO I plug in a full-size keyboard and do *some* work there. More extensive editing I do on my Windows desktop and transfer via thumb drive. I can do virtually nothing with the XO keyboard, and even less with the onscreen typing (or mini-keypads) of tablets (not to mention phones). For my tablets, I "develop" on my desktop, then transfer files either via USB cable (Samsung tablet) or thumb drive (my $65 tablet). Both processes are tedious, though the former much less so - definitely workable. (I found trying to edit onscreen on the Samsung excruciatingly frustrating; I could not type a word without mistake, and my touch-typing skill was of no use whatsoever.)
> 
> So, often - even during the "compositional" process, I find myself asking, "*Why* am I doing this? Shouldn't I be spending my [precious] time 'writing real music'?"
> 
> My ultimate response/rationale: follow the muse.
> 
> Art Hunkins
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toby" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Csnd] fout on Android?
> 
> 
>> I'm just curious; what is the appeal of running csound on a phone or tablet?
>> Is it just a geeky experiment, or do you actually want to write music on
>> Android?
>> 
>> I suppose I could see doing it with an external keyboard.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Tobiah
>> 
>> On 09/10/2012 07:21 PM, Art Hunkins wrote:
>>> Should it be possible to use fout in Android Csound similar to other platforms?
>>> 
>>> I've got a realtime file rendering just fine, but there is no sign of a designated WAV file writing anywhere. (I've done a complete searchy of user storage.)
>>> 
>>> In the "error window" there's no sign of anything going awry either.
>>> 
>>> I assume there are no special CsOptions that need to be specified, nor any fancy way the output filepath must be listed. My fout line is:
>>> fout "ChimePad.wav", 4, ga1, ga2
>>> 
>>> Art Hunkins
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 

Absolutely! Art, you are an inspiration to everyone on this list. You
never stop! It amazes me how you keep finding new ways to create and
share your music. Since I joined this mailing list you've always been
the one constant. Always probing for new ways to do things and always
sharing your results with the rest of the community. Long may you
continue to do so! It's clear that you're not just a great cellist, or
technician, you're an educator, an inspiration, and a friend to
everyone who's ever dabbled in the strange and murky world of computer
music!