yes, but where should the module (for Apple's
python.framework) go? It's OK if you have
MacPython, everything goes into /Library...
but afaik, the only place apple's python will
look for modules by default is inside its own
framework.

Victor

> completely understand!
>
> one potential problem with writing to
> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/l
> ib/python2.3
>
> is that is violates Apples ¿recommendation?:
> "The Frameworks directory in the system domain is for
> Apple-provided   frameworks only. Developers should
> install their custom frameworks in   either the local or
> user domain."
>  l/  BPFileSystem/Articles/LibraryDirectory.html>
>
> A problem will presumably onlt arise if/when an OS upgrade
> auto   reconfigures that dir.
>
> this might also be interesting ....  if you can't sleep:
>  l/  BPFileSystem/Articles/WhereToPutFiles.html>
>
> David
> On 13/11/2007, at 9:32 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>
> > I just want to simplify the packaging. As it is I can
> > support the csnd module for both 2.3 and 2.4, doing a
> > double build, but I wanted to avoid it.
> >
> > Victor
> >
> > At 21:20 12/11/2007, you wrote:
> >> I guess it's a matter of priorities.
> >> * With a .dmg, the python install is a very easy
> process. >> * v2.4 is a marked improvement and in
> learning python, and whilst >> backwards compatibility is
> strong (deprecation is maintained),  it >> will be often
> the case that the documentation, examples etc on the >>
> web, including python.org use even non-esoteric features
> from 2.4 >> which would be more confusing to a novice.
> >> * In using an API, there is a different 'balance'
> between the >> wrapping environment and the library than
> there is between multiple >> (insular) compilations. Ditto
> extending vs embedding.  To the extent >> that an API is a
> 'break-out' technology, I predict trying to maintain >>
> the 'broken-to' environ. will be a losing battle. Give up
> now! :-) >> * I prefer to think of it as providing lead
> ership rather than
> >> imposing. For example, users who need to do
> computationally >> challenging processing would soon turn
> to numpy. >> * Active Python
> (http://www.activestate.com/Products/  >> activepython/?
> _x=1) is now shipping for v2.5.  I'll be looking at   >>
> that over xmas. >>
> >>>> Would that be legal?
> >> I'm not sure - you could ask the python-mac SIG list
> (pythonmac-   >> sig@python.org). I think this issue has
> been addressed in the eggs. >>
> (http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PythonEggs ). >>
> >> If you want to continue to support v2.3, why not just
> have a >> separate .dmg for it?  Perhaps I've missed
> something. >>
> >> David
> >> On 11/11/2007, at 10:18 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >>
> >>> yes 2.4. My problem is that until Apple does not
> >>> move to 2.4, I have to keep supplying the 2.3
> >>> module, as I cannot force people to install 2.4.
> >>> A solution would be to add the MacPython installer
> >>> to the package. Would that be legal?
> >>
> >>> Victor
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, I realised after I'd sent the previous that it
> wasn't >>>> (solvable).
> >>>>
> >>>>   my suggestion to those caught by this is to start
> to >>>> experiment   with csnd.py in anticipation of  Matt
> >>>> updatin. I would also recommend upgrading to Python
> 2.4 >>>> (at least)  - v2.3 is   really now in the dark
> ages. >>>>
> >>>> David
> >>>> On 11/11/2007, at 8:16 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Not I don't think it's solvable. This is
> >>>>> because the python interpreter is Intel and
> >>>>> the module is PPC. The two don't agree. Rosetta
> >>>>> won't help here because it works at the process
> >>>>> level. If you ran a PPC interepreter, then it
> >>>>> would work (but all the dependencies would have
> >>>>> to be PPC as well). In fact that's the same
> >>>>> thing that stops Matt's frontend working with
> >>>>> Intel
>  CsoundLib.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Victor
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> yes .. Matt .... apologies. it was 5am ish!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> with PPC version installed, using Apple's python:
> >>>>>>> drwIntel:~  drw$ /usr/bin/pythonPython 2.3.5 (#1,
> Jan >>>> 13 >>> 2006,   20:13:11)
> >>>>>>> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on
> >>>> darwin >>> ...
> >>>>>>>>>> import csnd
> >>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>>>>>>   File "", line 1, in ?
> >>>>>>>   File
> >>>>
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/
> >>>>>>> lib/python2.3/csnd.py", line 4, in ? >>>
> import >>>> _csnd >>> ImportError:
> >>>>>>>
> dlopen(/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/ >>>>>>
> Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/_csnd.so, 2): no suitable >>>>
> image >>> found.    Did find: >>>>>>>
> >>>>
> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/
> >>>>>> lib/python2.3/_csnd.so: mach-o, but wrong
> architecture >>>>>>>> if you ignore and simply insist, it
> doesn't >>>> complain: >>>>>> import csnd
> >>>>>>>>>> dir()
> >>>>>>> ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__'
> , >>>>>>> 'csnd'] >>>
> >>>>>> but it hasn't imported properly:
> >>>>>>>>>> dir(csnd)
> >>>>>>> ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__',
> '__name__'] >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Using python2.4:
> >>>>>>> drwIntel:~ drw$ python
> >>>>>>> Python 2.4.3 (#1, Mar 30 2006, 11:02:16)
> >>>>>>> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on
> >>>> darwin >> ..
> >>>>>>>>>> import csnd
> >>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>>>>>>   File "", line 1, in ?
> >>>>>>>   File
> >>>>
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/
> >>>>>>> python2.4/csnd.py", line 7, in ? ImportError: No
> >>>> module >>> named _csnd >>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> and it complains no matter how many times you try
> to >>>>>> import. This one might be solvable... perhaps
> its just >>>> a >> naming
>  convention?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> David
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/11/2007, at 6:07 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> you probably mean Matt Ingalls, not Mike Gogins.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What is the problem by the way?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Victor
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I've just re-tested and I can confirm that (on an
> >>>> intel >>>> OSX) I have   the same problem when I use
> >>>> Csound PPC. >> Mike >> has indicated in a   recent
> post on >>>> the CS-Dev >> list that >> he will move
> macCsound to a >>>> universal >> binary soon. In >> the
> mean-time, whenever  I >>>> need the >> other   one, I
> simply >> install it from the >>>> relevant .dmg >> over
> the top of the >> existing. And do >>>> it again to switch
> >> back. Not very elegant >> but, hey, >>>>  it works!
> >>>> >>>>>>>> David
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 11/11/2007, at 1:24 AM, joachim heintz wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> No it's the same result with the -g option.
> Thanks >>>>>>>>> anyway for the   idea. I think all the
> problems are >>>>>>>>> raising because I am using the
> Csound PPC version >>>> on >>>>> an IntelMac, because
> formerly I worked such a >>>> lot in >>>> MacCsound that
> it's hard to change all this >>>> stuff to >> FLTK >>>
> widgets. You are using the MacIntel >>>> version of >>
> Csound, >> right? > >>>>>>>>>     joachim
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Am 09.11.2007 um 23:57 schrieb David Worrall:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I can confirm that this eg works for me under
> >>>>>>>>>> OSX 10.4.10
> >>>>>>>>>> IDLE 1.1.3
> >>>>>>>>>> Python 2.4.3.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> But I've found things quickly get stuffed up
> with >>>> the >>>> graphic   >> output turned on.
> >>>>>>>>>> Can you try it with the -g command line option?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> This tells me I should include a .csd with the
> >>>>>> example >> description.
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> David
> >>>>>>>>>> On 10/11/2007, at 8:53 AM, joachim heintz
> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, but the task
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> import csnd
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> is ok in MacPython 2.3 (IDLE 1.0). The csnd
> module >>>>>> is >> found and   >>> can be loaded
> correctly. >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> But when I go to the terminal and try the same
> in >>>>>>>> /usr/bin/  >>> python2.3 I get:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Python 2.3.5 (#1, Jan 13 2006, 20:13:11)
> >>>>>>>>>>> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)]
> on >>>>>>>> darwin >>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits"
> or >>>>>>>> "license" for more   >>> information.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> import csnd
> >>>>>>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>>>>>>>>>>   File "", line 1, in ?
> >>>>>>>>>>>   File
> >>>>
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/
> >>>>>>>>>>> lib/python2.3/csnd.py", line 7, in ? >>>>> >>
> >>>> import _csnd >>>>> ImportError: >>>> >>>>
> dlopen(/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/
> >>>>>>>>>>> Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/_csnd.so, 2): no >>
> >>>> suitable image >>>>> found.  Did find: >>>>>>> >>>>
> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/
> >>>>>>>>>>> lib/python2.3/_csnd.so: mach-o, but wrong >>
> >>>> architecture >>>>>>>> Is this because of the PPC
> version >>>>>> (being on an >> IntelMac)? Why no   >>>
> problem with >> >>>> MacPython/ IDLE? >>>>> >>>>>>>
> joachim >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Am 09.11.2007 um 22:14 schrieb Oeyvind
> Brandtsegg: >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think one should not run any halfway
> complex >>>>>> stuff >> in IDLE. >>>> I do not remember
> the exact >>>> reason >> why, >> neither the exact >>>>
> implications, but >>>> it has to >> with >> IDLE itself
> being written in   >>>> >>>> Python. >>>>>>>> This means
> we get one Python app running >>>> on top of
> >>>> another and   >>>> it does
> >>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes lead to unexpected results and
> strange >>>>>>>> error messages. >>>> Repeat, do not run
> stuff in >>>> IDLE. >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> best
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Oeyvind
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2007/11/9, Victor Lazzarini
> >>>>>>>> : >>>>> The code is
> >>>> correct. >> The >> -1 answer means that >>>>>
> probably the >>>> CSD was not >> found >> or that other
> >>>>> problem >>>> happened during the >>>> compilation.
> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -1 actually means an error. Also in
> OSX maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>> the csound messages have been
> printed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> console (see it in utilities)
> , not the terminal. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (On Windows, if I run it from Idle, I also
> do >>>>>>>>>>>>> not get any Csound messages)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Victor
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi David -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I find it very useful. But your example
> >>>> "Playing >> an >>>>>>>> existing csd   file" doesn't
> work >>>> on my system >>>> (MacPython >>>>>> 2.3, Csound
> PPC 5.07). >>>> No   error >>>> messages, but it returns
> >>>>>> -1: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> import csnd
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cs = csnd.Csound()
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fname >>>>
> "/Users/jh/Documents/Csound/PythonInCsound/pythontest.csd"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cs.Perform(fname) >>>>>> -1 >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I first run main.py from Oeyvinds
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> PartikkelCloudDesigner (it   stops at a
> certain >>>>>>>> point, but >>>>>> after loading all the
> csnd stuff), >>>>>> it's >>  ok (returns 0) >>>>>> and
> "test.aif" is >>>> written >> in the >> directory of the
> >>>>>> >>>> PartikkelCloudDesigner. >> So maybe >> there
> has to be one >>>> or >>>>>> more other >> tasks before >>
> cs.Perform(fname)? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>     joachim
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 09.11.2007 um 13:33 schrieb David
> Worrall: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been finding my way around the python
> >>>>>>>> wrappers for >>>>>>> csnd. In my   search I've
> come >>>>>> across >> quite a few people >>>>>>> who have
> found the >>>>>> process >> just too hard. So, bearing
> >>>>>>> in mind >>>>>> thathis process >> is   likely to
> attract new users >>>>>>>>>>>>> ,  I thought it >> would
> be good to begin   to >>>> put >> a >>>>>> graduated >>
> introduction together. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've just scratched
> out a >> temporary >>>> beginning, for the >>>>>>>>>
> moment at >> >>>> http://www.avatar.com.au/sonify/csnd/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>> couple of things suggest
> themselves. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reference material
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apart from some simple examples, it would
> be >>>>>> good >> to >>>>>>> merge the   output from
> help(csnd) >>>> with >> the >> info in the >>>>>>> header
> files, >>>> particularly >> csound.h >>>>>>>>> Has anyone
> written such >>>> a script? It >> wouldn't be >> too
> >>>>>>> hard a hack >>>> and then each >> version or
> compile >> options >>>>>>> >>>> change, a reference >>
> could   be computed by >> the user >>>>>>>>>> particular
> to >> their own system. > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Examples
> >>>>>>>>>>> -------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From what I can
> see, the only example from the >>>>>>>> examples >>>>>>>
> directory   in the sources that runs >>>>>> on >> the
> default OSX >>>>>>> .dmg install of v5.7 >>>>>> without >>
> being modified is >>>>>>> Victor's vu.py (It >>>>>> relies
> on >> TclSTk being   installed.) >>>>>>> tFair >>>>>>
> enough - It is a >> "way in" I could put up a hacked
> >>>>>>>>>>>>  down version (no >> graphics),
>  just to
> >>>> illustrate >> the use of >>>>>>> >>
> >>>> CsoundPerformanceThread and >> SetChannel and proceed
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that way ... > >>>>>>> >> I'm not sure if
> >>>> people would find >> these type of things >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> useful.   Perhaps you have >> other ideas. >>
> Feedback? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ciao, >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> _________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experimental polymedia:
> www.avatar.com.au >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sonic Communications
> Research Group, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> University of Canberra:
> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/ > >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> _________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> experimental polymedia:    www.avatar.com.au
> >>>>>>>>>> Sonic Communications Research Group, >>>>>>>>>>
> University of Canberra: >>>>>>>>
> creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/ >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> experimental polymedia:    www.avatar.com.au
> >>>>>>>> Sonic Communications Research Group,
> >>>>>>>> University of Canberra:
> >>>>>> creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/ >>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _________________________________________________
> >>>>>> experimental polymedia:    www.avatar.com.au
> >>>>>> Sonic Communications Research Group,
> >>>>>> University of Canberra:
> >>>> creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/ >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk
> with >>>>> body   "unsubscribe csound"
> >>>>
> >>>> _________________________________________________
> >>>> experimental polymedia:    www.avatar.com.au
> >>>> Sonic Communications Research Group,
> >>>> University of Canberra:     crea
> tive.canberra.edu.au/scrg/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
> >>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk
> with >>>> body "unsubscribe csound"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Send bugs reports to this list.
> >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with
> body >>> "unsubscribe csound"
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________
> >> experimental polymedia: www.avatar.com.au
> >> Sonic Communications Research Group,
> >> University of Canberra: creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Send bugs reports to this list.
> >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with
> body   >> "unsubscribe csound"
> >
> > Victor Lazzarini
> > Music Technology Laboratory
> > Music Department
> > National University of Ireland, Maynooth
> >
> >
> >
> > Send bugs reports to this list.
> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with
> > body   "unsubscribe csound"
> >
>
> _________________________________________________
> experimental polymedia:    www.avatar.com.au
> Sonic Communications Research Group,
> University of Canberra:     creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with
> body "unsubscribe csound"

On a virgin system I think
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current
  is a symlink to
/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/ (the  
shipped one)
and if you put the files in
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/lib/
they should be found by % python.

My system is so _not_ virginal and I can't remember - perhaps someone  
who hasn't downloaded another python can inform us of the contents of
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/lib/
For eg, I wonder if
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/lib/python2.3/ 
site-packages exists on those machines.

David
On 14/11/2007, at 8:05 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> yes, but where should the module (for Apple's
> python.framework) go? It's OK if you have
> MacPython, everything goes into /Library...
> but afaik, the only place apple's python will
> look for modules by default is inside its own
> framework.
>
> Victor
>
>> completely understand!
>>
>> one potential problem with writing to
>> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/l
>> ib/python2.3
>>
>> is that is violates Apples ¿recommendation?:
>> "The Frameworks directory in the system domain is for
>> Apple-provided   frameworks only. Developers should
>> install their custom frameworks in   either the local or
>> user domain."
>> > l/  BPFileSystem/Articles/LibraryDirectory.html>
>>
>> A problem will presumably onlt arise if/when an OS upgrade
>> auto   reconfigures that dir.
>>
>> this might also be interesting ....  if you can't sleep:
>> > l/  BPFileSystem/Articles/WhereToPutFiles.html>
>>
>> David
>> On 13/11/2007, at 9:32 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>
>>> I just want to simplify the packaging. As it is I can
>>> support the csnd module for both 2.3 and 2.4, doing a
>>> double build, but I wanted to avoid it.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>> At 21:20 12/11/2007, you wrote:
>>>> I guess it's a matter of priorities.
>>>> * With a .dmg, the python install is a very easy
>> process. >> * v2.4 is a marked improvement and in
>> learning python, and whilst >> backwards compatibility is
>> strong (deprecation is maintained),  it >> will be often
>> the case that the documentation, examples etc on the >>
>> web, including python.org use even non-esoteric features
>> from 2.4 >> which would be more confusing to a novice.
>>>> * In using an API, there is a different 'balance'
>> between the >> wrapping environment and the library than
>> there is between multiple >> (insular) compilations. Ditto
>> extending vs embedding.  To the extent >> that an API is a
>> 'break-out' technology, I predict trying to maintain >>
>> the 'broken-to' environ. will be a losing battle. Give up
>> now! :-) >> * I prefer to think of it as providing lead
>> ership rather than
>>>> imposing. For example, users who need to do
>> computationally >> challenging processing would soon turn
>> to numpy. >> * Active Python
>> (http://www.activestate.com/Products/  >> activepython/?
>> _x=1) is now shipping for v2.5.  I'll be looking at   >>
>> that over xmas. >>
>>>>>> Would that be legal?
>>>> I'm not sure - you could ask the python-mac SIG list
>> (pythonmac-   >> sig@python.org). I think this issue has
>> been addressed in the eggs. >>
>> (http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PythonEggs ). >>
>>>> If you want to continue to support v2.3, why not just
>> have a >> separate .dmg for it?  Perhaps I've missed
>> something. >>
>>>> David
>>>> On 11/11/2007, at 10:18 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> yes 2.4. My problem is that until Apple does not
>>>>> move to 2.4, I have to keep supplying the 2.3
>>>>> module, as I cannot force people to install 2.4.
>>>>> A solution would be to add the MacPython installer
>>>>> to the package. Would that be legal?
>>>>
>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I realised after I'd sent the previous that it
>> wasn't >>>> (solvable).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   my suggestion to those caught by this is to start
>> to >>>> experiment   with csnd.py in anticipation of  Matt
>>>>>> updatin. I would also recommend upgrading to Python
>> 2.4 >>>> (at least)  - v2.3 is   really now in the dark
>> ages. >>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>> On 11/11/2007, at 8:16 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not I don't think it's solvable. This is
>>>>>>> because the python interpreter is Intel and
>>>>>>> the module is PPC. The two don't agree. Rosetta
>>>>>>> won't help here because it works at the process
>>>>>>> level. If you ran a PPC interepreter, then it
>>>>>>> would work (but all the dependencies would have
>>>>>>> to be PPC as well). In fact that's the same
>>>>>>> thing that stops Matt's frontend working with
>>>>>>> Intel
>>  CsoundLib.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yes .. Matt .... apologies. it was 5am ish!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with PPC version installed, using Apple's python:
>>>>>>>>> drwIntel:~  drw$ /usr/bin/pythonPython 2.3.5 (#1,
>> Jan >>>> 13 >>> 2006,   20:13:11)
>>>>>>>>> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on
>>>>>> darwin >>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>> import csnd
>>>>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>>>>>>   File "", line 1, in ?
>>>>>>>>>   File
>>>>>>
>> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/
>>>>>>>>> lib/python2.3/csnd.py", line 4, in ? >>>
>> import >>>> _csnd >>> ImportError:
>>>>>>>>>
>> dlopen(/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/ >>>>>>
>> Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/_csnd.so, 2): no suitable >>>>
>> image >>> found.    Did find: >>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/
>>>>>>>> lib/python2.3/_csnd.so: mach-o, but wrong
>> architecture >>>>>>>> if you ignore and simply insist, it
>> doesn't >>>> complain: >>>>>> import csnd
>>>>>>>>>>>> dir()
>>>>>>>>> ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__'
>> , >>>>>>> 'csnd'] >>>
>>>>>>>> but it hasn't imported properly:
>>>>>>>>>>>> dir(csnd)
>>>>>>>>> ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__',
>> '__name__'] >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Using python2.4:
>>>>>>>>> drwIntel:~ drw$ python
>>>>>>>>> Python 2.4.3 (#1, Mar 30 2006, 11:02:16)
>>>>>>>>> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on
>>>>>> darwin >> ..
>>>>>>>>>>>> import csnd
>>>>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>>>>>>   File "", line 1, in ?
>>>>>>>>>   File
>>>>>>
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/
>>>>>>>>> python2.4/csnd.py", line 7, in ? ImportError: No
>>>>>> module >>> named _csnd >>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and it complains no matter how many times you try
>> to >>>>>> import. This one might be solvable... perhaps
>> its just >>>> a >> naming
>>  convention?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2007, at 6:07 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you probably mean Matt Ingalls, not Mike Gogins.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What is the problem by the way?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've just re-tested and I can confirm that (on an
>>>>>> intel >>>> OSX) I have   the same problem when I use
>>>>>> Csound PPC. >> Mike >> has indicated in a   recent
>> post on >>>> the CS-Dev >> list that >> he will move
>> macCsound to a >>>> universal >> binary soon. In >> the
>> mean-time, whenever  I >>>> need the >> other   one, I
>> simply >> install it from the >>>> relevant .dmg >> over
>> the top of the >> existing. And do >>>> it again to switch
>>>> back. Not very elegant >> but, hey, >>>>  it works!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2007, at 1:24 AM, joachim heintz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No it's the same result with the -g option.
>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> anyway for the   idea. I think all the
>> problems are >>>>>>>>> raising because I am using the
>> Csound PPC version >>>> on >>>>> an IntelMac, because
>> formerly I worked such a >>>> lot in >>>> MacCsound that
>> it's hard to change all this >>>> stuff to >> FLTK >>>
>> widgets. You are using the MacIntel >>>> version of >>
>> Csound, >> right? > >>>>>>>>>     joachim
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Am 09.11.2007 um 23:57 schrieb David Worrall:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I can confirm that this eg works for me under
>>>>>>>>>>>> OSX 10.4.10
>>>>>>>>>>>> IDLE 1.1.3
>>>>>>>>>>>> Python 2.4.3.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But I've found things quickly get stuffed up
>> with >>>> the >>>> graphic   >> output turned on.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you try it with the -g command line option?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This tells me I should include a .csd with the
>>>>>>>> example >> description.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/11/2007, at 8:53 AM, joachim heintz
>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, but the task
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> import csnd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is ok in MacPython 2.3 (IDLE 1.0). The csnd
>> module >>>>>> is >> found and   >>> can be loaded
>> correctly. >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But when I go to the terminal and try the same
>> in >>>>>>>> /usr/bin/  >>> python2.3 I get:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Python 2.3.5 (#1, Jan 13 2006, 20:13:11)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)]
>> on >>>>>>>> darwin >>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits"
>> or >>>>>>>> "license" for more   >>> information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> import csnd
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   File "", line 1, in ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   File
>>>>>>
>> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lib/python2.3/csnd.py", line 7, in ? >>>>> >>
>>>>>> import _csnd >>>>> ImportError: >>>> >>>>
>> dlopen(/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/_csnd.so, 2): no >>
>>>>>> suitable image >>>>> found.  Did find: >>>>>>> >>>>
>> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lib/python2.3/_csnd.so: mach-o, but wrong >>
>>>>>> architecture >>>>>>>> Is this because of the PPC
>> version >>>>>> (being on an >> IntelMac)? Why no   >>>
>> problem with >> >>>> MacPython/ IDLE? >>>>> >>>>>>>
>> joachim >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 09.11.2007 um 22:14 schrieb Oeyvind
>> Brandtsegg: >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think one should not run any halfway
>> complex >>>>>> stuff >> in IDLE. >>>> I do not remember
>> the exact >>>> reason >> why, >> neither the exact >>>>
>> implications, but >>>> it has to >> with >> IDLE itself
>> being written in   >>>> >>>> Python. >>>>>>>> This means
>> we get one Python app running >>>> on top of
>>>>>> another and   >>>> it does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes lead to unexpected results and
>> strange >>>>>>>> error messages. >>>> Repeat, do not run
>> stuff in >>>> IDLE. >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oeyvind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007/11/9, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>>>>>> : >>>>> The code is
>>>>>> correct. >> The >> -1 answer means that >>>>>
>> probably the >>>> CSD was not >> found >> or that other
>>>>>>> problem >>>> happened during the >>>> compilation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -1 actually means an error. Also in
>> OSX maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>> the csound messages have been
>> printed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> console (see it in utilities)
>> , not the terminal. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (On Windows, if I run it from Idle, I also
>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>> not get any Csound messages)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi David -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I find it very useful. But your example
>>>>>> "Playing >> an >>>>>>>> existing csd   file" doesn't
>> work >>>> on my system >>>> (MacPython >>>>>> 2.3, Csound
>> PPC 5.07). >>>> No   error >>>> messages, but it returns
>>>>>>>> -1: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> import csnd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cs = csnd.Csound()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fname >>>>
>> "/Users/jh/Documents/Csound/PythonInCsound/pythontest.csd"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cs.Perform(fname) >>>>>> -1 >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I first run main.py from Oeyvinds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PartikkelCloudDesigner (it   stops at a
>> certain >>>>>>>> point, but >>>>>> after loading all the
>> csnd stuff), >>>>>> it's >>  ok (returns 0) >>>>>> and
>> "test.aif" is >>>> written >> in the >> directory of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> PartikkelCloudDesigner. >> So maybe >> there
>> has to be one >>>> or >>>>>> more other >> tasks before >>
>> cs.Perform(fname)? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     joachim
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 09.11.2007 um 13:33 schrieb David
>> Worrall: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been finding my way around the python
>>>>>>>>>> wrappers for >>>>>>> csnd. In my   search I've
>> come >>>>>> across >> quite a few people >>>>>>> who have
>> found the >>>>>> process >> just too hard. So, bearing
>>>>>>>>> in mind >>>>>> thathis process >> is   likely to
>> attract new users >>>>>>>>>>>>> ,  I thought it >> would
>> be good to begin   to >>>> put >> a >>>>>> graduated >>
>> introduction together. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've just scratched
>> out a >> temporary >>>> beginning, for the >>>>>>>>>
>> moment at >> >>>> http://www.avatar.com.au/sonify/csnd/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>> couple of things suggest
>> themselves. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reference material
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apart from some simple examples, it would
>> be >>>>>> good >> to >>>>>>> merge the   output from
>> help(csnd) >>>> with >> the >> info in the >>>>>>> header
>> files, >>>> particularly >> csound.h >>>>>>>>> Has anyone
>> written such >>>> a script? It >> wouldn't be >> too
>>>>>>>>> hard a hack >>>> and then each >> version or
>> compile >> options >>>>>>> >>>> change, a reference >>
>> could   be computed by >> the user >>>>>>>>>> particular
>> to >> their own system. > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Examples
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From what I can
>> see, the only example from the >>>>>>>> examples >>>>>>>
>> directory   in the sources that runs >>>>>> on >> the
>> default OSX >>>>>>> .dmg install of v5.7 >>>>>> without >>
>> being modified is >>>>>>> Victor's vu.py (It >>>>>> relies
>> on >> TclSTk being   installed.) >>>>>>> tFair >>>>>>
>> enough - It is a >> "way in" I could put up a hacked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  down version (no >> graphics),
>>  just to
>>>>>> illustrate >> the use of >>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> CsoundPerformanceThread and >> SetChannel and proceed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that way ... > >>>>>>> >> I'm not sure if
>>>>>> people would find >> these type of things >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> useful.   Perhaps you have >> other ideas. >>
>> Feedback? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ciao, >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
....
_________________________________________________
experimental polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
Sonic Communications Research Group,
University of Canberra:	 creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/

I think that it is OK to install an extension module into
/System/Library/...  although who knows if it is guaranteed to be preserved
if you install an Apple update to Python.  I would interpret the quote below
as not applying to this situation because you are not installing a framework
to /System, just an extension to an Apple framework.

Regarding redistributing Python 2.4 or later, I think this web page answers
the question of legality with an unambiguous "Yes":

http://www.python.org/psf/license/

(I don't know if the Sourceforge "source code requirement" would apply to
including someone else's binary package in our installers though ...)

Anthony

Victor Lazzarini wrote on 11/14/07 4:05 AM:

> yes, but where should the module (for Apple's
> python.framework) go? It's OK if you have
> MacPython, everything goes into /Library...
> but afaik, the only place apple's python will
> look for modules by default is inside its own
> framework.
> 
> Victor
> 
>> one potential problem with writing to
>> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/l
>> ib/python2.3
>> 
>> is that is violates Apples ¿recommendation?:
>> "The Frameworks directory in the system domain is for
>> Apple-provided   frameworks only. Developers should
>> install their custom frameworks in   either the local or
>> user domain."
>> > l/  BPFileSystem/Articles/LibraryDirectory.html>

>>>> On 11/11/2007, at 10:18 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> yes 2.4. My problem is that until Apple does not
>>>>> move to 2.4, I have to keep supplying the 2.3
>>>>> module, as I cannot force people to install 2.4.
>>>>> A solution would be to add the MacPython installer
>>>>> to the package. Would that be legal?

Sorry for the delay  - I've been in discussion wrt this on the mac- 
python dev list. They say it's _not_ recommended to use /System/Library.

Result: Put 3rd party packages in  /Library/Python/2.3/site-packages
which has a lovely little README and is found by python internally.

Here's the summary of my discussion on the mac python developer's list:

> On 15/11/2007, at 2:56 AM, Paul Sargent wrote:
>
>>
>> On 14 Nov 2007, at 13:16, David Worrall wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> What is the correct location for 3rd party site-packages to be  
>>> used with the system python?
>>>
>>
>> >>> import sys
>> >>> print sys.path
>> ['',
>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
>> python25.zip',
>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
>> python2.5',
>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
>> python2.5/plat-darwin',
>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
>> python2.5/plat-mac',
>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
>> python2.5/plat-mac/lib-scriptpackages',
>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/Extras/ 
>> lib/python',
>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
>> python2.5/lib-tk',
>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
>> python2.5/lib-dynload',
>> '/Library/Python/2.5/site-packages',
>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/Extras/ 
>> lib/python/PyObjC']
>>
>> Looks like /Library/Python/2.5/site-packages
>>
>> Fairly unsurprising really.
>>

>> On 14 Nov 2007, at 21:16, David Worrall wrote:
>>> Unsurprising? perhaps if you're telepathic:
>>>
>>> >>> import sys
>>> >>> print sys.path
>>> ['',
>>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
>>> python23.zip',
>>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
>>> python2.3',
>>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
>>> python2.3/plat-darwin',
>>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
>>> python2.3/plat-mac',
>>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
>>> python2.3/plat-mac/lib-scriptpackages',
>>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
>>> python2.3/lib-tk',
>>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
>>> python2.3/lib-dynload',
>>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
>>> python2.3/site-packages',
>>> '/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Extras/ 
>>> lib/python']
>>>
>>> which doesn't include a
>>> '/Library/Python/2.3/site-packages'
>>>
>>> Following Paul's lead, however
>>> /Library/Python/2.3/site-packages
>>> has a lovely little README
>>> and is in the path
>>> So why doesn't /Library/Python/2.3/site-packages show up in  
>>> sys.path?
>>>
>>> Fairly surprising, really.
>

David


On 15/11/2007, at 4:13 AM, Anthony Kozar wrote:

> I think that it is OK to install an extension module into
> /System/Library/...  although who knows if it is guaranteed to be  
> preserved
> if you install an Apple update to Python.  I would interpret the  
> quote below
> as not applying to this situation because you are not installing a  
> framework
> to /System, just an extension to an Apple framework.
>
> Regarding redistributing Python 2.4 or later, I think this web page  
> answers
> the question of legality with an unambiguous "Yes":
>
> http://www.python.org/psf/license/
>
> (I don't know if the Sourceforge "source code requirement" would  
> apply to
> including someone else's binary package in our installers though ...)
>
> Anthony
>
> Victor Lazzarini wrote on 11/14/07 4:05 AM:
>
>> yes, but where should the module (for Apple's
>> python.framework) go? It's OK if you have
>> MacPython, everything goes into /Library...
>> but afaik, the only place apple's python will
>> look for modules by default is inside its own
>> framework.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>>> one potential problem with writing to
>>> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/l
>>> ib/python2.3
>>>
>>> is that is violates Apples ¿recommendation?:
>>> "The Frameworks directory in the system domain is for
>>> Apple-provided   frameworks only. Developers should
>>> install their custom frameworks in   either the local or
>>> user domain."
>>> >> l/  BPFileSystem/Articles/LibraryDirectory.html>
>
>>>>> On 11/11/2007, at 10:18 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> yes 2.4. My problem is that until Apple does not
>>>>>> move to 2.4, I have to keep supplying the 2.3
>>>>>> module, as I cannot force people to install 2.4.
>>>>>> A solution would be to add the MacPython installer
>>>>>> to the package. Would that be legal?
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>

_________________________________________________
experimental polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
Sonic Communications Research Group,
University of Canberra:	 creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg/