Hi,

So, for any Csound course the way I see it is that we can separate the
learning process into two distinct components: 1) the language itself
and 2) the use of the language to synthesize or process audio. This is
very clear in the FLOSS manual and the Springer book.

My proposal is, what if instead of doing that we have an interactive
sound catalogue of some of the results you can get once you are able to
code the techniques presented in (2)? People could then come to the
website, listen to interesting sounds and then choose a synthesis or
processing technique to study. In the link to the paper I sent in my
first email this is called “consume before produce”. The syntax and the
inner workings of Csound would be explained at the same time as we are
developing the instrument for the chosen technique.

The obvious flaw in this plan is that we would have to explain
everything related to the language itself every time we are explaining a
different technique from (2). However, a possible solution might be to
have a mixture of both approaches:

1) To explain the language we first use small projects (“enablers”).
These would be maybe 2 or 3 incremental, audio-related projects covering
the fundamentals of Csound while at the same time letting you build an
audio-producing instrument.

2) Below each “enabler project” there’s a list of other projects aiming
at building different instruments for the techniques listed in (2).
These free-standing non-sequential projects depend on you having
completed the “enabler” project above (and also the ones before) because
otherwise you wouldn’t understand the syntax or the concepts used.

By having a sound catalogue we can work around the idea that the
computer is just a tool to help you create art and everything you need
to learn in order to do so (the computer stuff) should always stem from
that fact. I imagine we can have other “enabler” projects for, for
example, covering the Cabbage Docs. An enabler project like that could,
after completion, enable you to pick other small non-sequential Cabbage
projects to work on.

What do you think of this approach? We would need to design an
attractive website that has this HTML5 sound player and then a page with
an editor frame, a video (not sure) and text frame. Also maybe have the
reference manual at the right side. Steven's work seems like a great
starting point.

Now, because the original idea was to have a “standard or base set of
materials for teaching Csound” and a “semester plan/syllabus accessible”
we would also need to keep in mind a possible time frame for the
completion of the projects.

Regarding the deepness of the conceptual aspect of each synthesis and
processing technique, I have doubts. It wouldn’t make sense to rewrite
Dodge & Jerse’s book so I was thinking that the conceptual part of the
techniques could be explained in class and, if we were doing videos, we
could have just a small review of the technique at the beginning of each
project. Also the videos would look like the ones Andreas posted (which
seem very well produced!), but in English and with the possibility to
overdub them maybe.

I sincerely apologize for the wall of text! Any thoughts?

Cheers.

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Hi Guillermo,

Apologies for a very long delay to reply, but this topic is very big
and there is a lot to think about. One, I would mention that Dr. B's
TOOTS have been very important for this community:

http://www.csounds.com/toots/

And I think what I've always liked about them is that they had a nice
progression, adding small bits in each TOOT.  I know we've been trying
to be careful to understand what resources we have in the community
and how they may or may not overlap.  I think we have the FLOSS Manual
and new Csound Book to cover a lot of the world of Csound.  But these
books and manuals are not necessarily Tutorials, like the TOOTS, and
it seems like that may be what would work well for an online learning
course.

As an example, please check out the "A Tour of Go" website:

https://tour.golang.org/welcome/1

I modeled the Learn Csound website on it with the thought that users
would do something similar: each page would have some text and maybe
some Csound code to edit and experiment with.  Adding video to the
pages seems like it would be fairly straightforward.

Thanks!
steven


On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Guillermo Senna  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> So, for any Csound course the way I see it is that we can separate the
> learning process into two distinct components: 1) the language itself
> and 2) the use of the language to synthesize or process audio. This is
> very clear in the FLOSS manual and the Springer book.
>
> My proposal is, what if instead of doing that we have an interactive
> sound catalogue of some of the results you can get once you are able to
> code the techniques presented in (2)? People could then come to the
> website, listen to interesting sounds and then choose a synthesis or
> processing technique to study. In the link to the paper I sent in my
> first email this is called “consume before produce”. The syntax and the
> inner workings of Csound would be explained at the same time as we are
> developing the instrument for the chosen technique.
>
> The obvious flaw in this plan is that we would have to explain
> everything related to the language itself every time we are explaining a
> different technique from (2). However, a possible solution might be to
> have a mixture of both approaches:
>
> 1) To explain the language we first use small projects (“enablers”).
> These would be maybe 2 or 3 incremental, audio-related projects covering
> the fundamentals of Csound while at the same time letting you build an
> audio-producing instrument.
>
> 2) Below each “enabler project” there’s a list of other projects aiming
> at building different instruments for the techniques listed in (2).
> These free-standing non-sequential projects depend on you having
> completed the “enabler” project above (and also the ones before) because
> otherwise you wouldn’t understand the syntax or the concepts used.
>
> By having a sound catalogue we can work around the idea that the
> computer is just a tool to help you create art and everything you need
> to learn in order to do so (the computer stuff) should always stem from
> that fact. I imagine we can have other “enabler” projects for, for
> example, covering the Cabbage Docs. An enabler project like that could,
> after completion, enable you to pick other small non-sequential Cabbage
> projects to work on.
>
> What do you think of this approach? We would need to design an
> attractive website that has this HTML5 sound player and then a page with
> an editor frame, a video (not sure) and text frame. Also maybe have the
> reference manual at the right side. Steven's work seems like a great
> starting point.
>
> Now, because the original idea was to have a “standard or base set of
> materials for teaching Csound” and a “semester plan/syllabus accessible”
> we would also need to keep in mind a possible time frame for the
> completion of the projects.
>
> Regarding the deepness of the conceptual aspect of each synthesis and
> processing technique, I have doubts. It wouldn’t make sense to rewrite
> Dodge & Jerse’s book so I was thinking that the conceptual part of the
> techniques could be explained in class and, if we were doing videos, we
> could have just a small review of the technique at the beginning of each
> project. Also the videos would look like the ones Andreas posted (which
> seem very well produced!), but in English and with the possibility to
> overdub them maybe.
>
> I sincerely apologize for the wall of text! Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers.
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Hi Steve,

Thanks for mentioning the TOOTs. I plan to keep every book, pdf and
website at hand for building each chapter.

I like the Go tour. The chapters/lessons should look like that, maybe
with the addition of the Csound Ref. Manual available somewhere. I'd
still need to figure out how to design the main menu in order to
accommodate this idea of having "enabler" projects and audio examples
for each chapter. But I don't see any problems so far. Just a lot to be
done.

I'm kind of busy right now, but in a couple of weeks I think I can start
writing the first lesson. I'm aiming at having something basic (but
usable) by March.

Thanks again, Steven! Cheers.

On 30/10/17 22:08, Steven Yi wrote:
> Hi Guillermo,
>
> Apologies for a very long delay to reply, but this topic is very big
> and there is a lot to think about. One, I would mention that Dr. B's
> TOOTS have been very important for this community:
>
> http://www.csounds.com/toots/
>
> And I think what I've always liked about them is that they had a nice
> progression, adding small bits in each TOOT.  I know we've been trying
> to be careful to understand what resources we have in the community
> and how they may or may not overlap.  I think we have the FLOSS Manual
> and new Csound Book to cover a lot of the world of Csound.  But these
> books and manuals are not necessarily Tutorials, like the TOOTS, and
> it seems like that may be what would work well for an online learning
> course.
>
> As an example, please check out the "A Tour of Go" website:
>
> https://tour.golang.org/welcome/1
>
> I modeled the Learn Csound website on it with the thought that users
> would do something similar: each page would have some text and maybe
> some Csound code to edit and experiment with.  Adding video to the
> pages seems like it would be fairly straightforward.
>
> Thanks!
> steven
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Guillermo Senna  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> So, for any Csound course the way I see it is that we can separate the
>> learning process into two distinct components: 1) the language itself
>> and 2) the use of the language to synthesize or process audio. This is
>> very clear in the FLOSS manual and the Springer book.
>>
>> My proposal is, what if instead of doing that we have an interactive
>> sound catalogue of some of the results you can get once you are able to
>> code the techniques presented in (2)? People could then come to the
>> website, listen to interesting sounds and then choose a synthesis or
>> processing technique to study. In the link to the paper I sent in my
>> first email this is called “consume before produce”. The syntax and the
>> inner workings of Csound would be explained at the same time as we are
>> developing the instrument for the chosen technique.
>>
>> The obvious flaw in this plan is that we would have to explain
>> everything related to the language itself every time we are explaining a
>> different technique from (2). However, a possible solution might be to
>> have a mixture of both approaches:
>>
>> 1) To explain the language we first use small projects (“enablers”).
>> These would be maybe 2 or 3 incremental, audio-related projects covering
>> the fundamentals of Csound while at the same time letting you build an
>> audio-producing instrument.
>>
>> 2) Below each “enabler project” there’s a list of other projects aiming
>> at building different instruments for the techniques listed in (2).
>> These free-standing non-sequential projects depend on you having
>> completed the “enabler” project above (and also the ones before) because
>> otherwise you wouldn’t understand the syntax or the concepts used.
>>
>> By having a sound catalogue we can work around the idea that the
>> computer is just a tool to help you create art and everything you need
>> to learn in order to do so (the computer stuff) should always stem from
>> that fact. I imagine we can have other “enabler” projects for, for
>> example, covering the Cabbage Docs. An enabler project like that could,
>> after completion, enable you to pick other small non-sequential Cabbage
>> projects to work on.
>>
>> What do you think of this approach? We would need to design an
>> attractive website that has this HTML5 sound player and then a page with
>> an editor frame, a video (not sure) and text frame. Also maybe have the
>> reference manual at the right side. Steven's work seems like a great
>> starting point.
>>
>> Now, because the original idea was to have a “standard or base set of
>> materials for teaching Csound” and a “semester plan/syllabus accessible”
>> we would also need to keep in mind a possible time frame for the
>> completion of the projects.
>>
>> Regarding the deepness of the conceptual aspect of each synthesis and
>> processing technique, I have doubts. It wouldn’t make sense to rewrite
>> Dodge & Jerse’s book so I was thinking that the conceptual part of the
>> techniques could be explained in class and, if we were doing videos, we
>> could have just a small review of the technique at the beginning of each
>> project. Also the videos would look like the ones Andreas posted (which
>> seem very well produced!), but in English and with the possibility to
>> overdub them maybe.
>>
>> I sincerely apologize for the wall of text! Any thoughts?
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Thanks, Dr. B! I'm also looking forward to following your "Cooking with
Csound" show.

Cheers.


On 31/10/17 03:06, Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
> Steven,
>
> Thanks for mentioning these "classic" toots of mine from way back when.
>
> I do find them to be a good model... and they have worked well at Berklee
> and now with my students in China (both in this form and expanded
> as Chapter1 of The Csound Book).
>
> In my classes, I then take them to many other places - with other tools
> (like Cecilia4, CsoundForLive, csSpectral, Csound for iOS, Cabbage,
> great Csound compositions like Iain's "Csound Haiku" and Steven's "Cyclic
> Bells" & "On the Sensation of Tone",
> and the study of synth and signal processing techniques - now as shown in
> great detail
> in Victor's GREAT GREAT new Computer Music Instruments Springer Book!)
>
> So, attention to The Csound Book, The Floss Manual, The new Springer Csound
> Book, etc... is very important in my classes.
>
> Working with Csound using Commercial Production tools is a priority
> (Cabbage and Csound for Live and Csound MIDI help with this)
>
> All the "new" ways of working/designing/embedding Csound is so important.
> - I am still learning every day from what is shared on this list, the
> journal and at the conferences!  THANKS for the INSPIRATION
>
> Video Demos/Tutorials are becoming increasingly important... and so...
>
> I plan to make more video demos
>
> I am considering doing a live monthly CsoundTV show from my studio
> "This week's episode - Let's check out this opcode, lets' check out this
> piece, let's make an instrument and a piece of our own with it!"
>
> I am also thinking about doing a live Modular Synthesizer Composition Show
> from my studio
> "This week's episode - Let's check out this module and patch together a
> piece"
>
> These would be like cooking shows... but I would be cooking up sounds and
> pieces
>
> Making "music" with Csound is the ultimate goal
> The work of my colleagues and my students is a source of endless
> inspiration
> - for which I am eternally grateful
>
> Guillermo - good luck on your online course.  I am sure it will be great.
> Can't wait to "take it"
>
> Best
>
> Dr.B.
>
> _____________________________________________
> *Dr. Richard Boulanger*
> Professor of Electronic Production and Design
> Professional Writing and Music Technology Division
> Berklee College of Music
> ______________________________________________
> President of *Boulanger Labs* - http://boulangerlabs.com
> Author & Editor of *The Csound Book* -
> http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/csound-book
> Author & Editor of *The Audio Programming Book* -
> http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/audio-programming-book
> ______________________________________________
> about: http://www.boulangerlabs.com/#about
> about: http://www.csounds.com/community/developers/dr-richard-boulanger/
> music:
> http://www.csounds.com/community/developers/dr-richard-boulanger/dr-richard-boulanger-music/
> ______________________________________________
> email: rboulanger@berklee.edu
> facebook: https://www.facebook.com/richard.boulanger.58
>
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>
>> Hi Guillermo,
>>
>> Apologies for a very long delay to reply, but this topic is very big
>> and there is a lot to think about. One, I would mention that Dr. B's
>> TOOTS have been very important for this community:
>>
>> http://www.csounds.com/toots/
>>
>> And I think what I've always liked about them is that they had a nice
>> progression, adding small bits in each TOOT.  I know we've been trying
>> to be careful to understand what resources we have in the community
>> and how they may or may not overlap.  I think we have the FLOSS Manual
>> and new Csound Book to cover a lot of the world of Csound.  But these
>> books and manuals are not necessarily Tutorials, like the TOOTS, and
>> it seems like that may be what would work well for an online learning
>> course.
>>
>> As an example, please check out the "A Tour of Go" website:
>>
>> https://tour.golang.org/welcome/1
>>
>> I modeled the Learn Csound website on it with the thought that users
>> would do something similar: each page would have some text and maybe
>> some Csound code to edit and experiment with.  Adding video to the
>> pages seems like it would be fairly straightforward.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> steven
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Guillermo Senna  wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> So, for any Csound course the way I see it is that we can separate the
>>> learning process into two distinct components: 1) the language itself
>>> and 2) the use of the language to synthesize or process audio. This is
>>> very clear in the FLOSS manual and the Springer book.
>>>
>>> My proposal is, what if instead of doing that we have an interactive
>>> sound catalogue of some of the results you can get once you are able to
>>> code the techniques presented in (2)? People could then come to the
>>> website, listen to interesting sounds and then choose a synthesis or
>>> processing technique to study. In the link to the paper I sent in my
>>> first email this is called “consume before produce”. The syntax and the
>>> inner workings of Csound would be explained at the same time as we are
>>> developing the instrument for the chosen technique.
>>>
>>> The obvious flaw in this plan is that we would have to explain
>>> everything related to the language itself every time we are explaining a
>>> different technique from (2). However, a possible solution might be to
>>> have a mixture of both approaches:
>>>
>>> 1) To explain the language we first use small projects (“enablers”).
>>> These would be maybe 2 or 3 incremental, audio-related projects covering
>>> the fundamentals of Csound while at the same time letting you build an
>>> audio-producing instrument.
>>>
>>> 2) Below each “enabler project” there’s a list of other projects aiming
>>> at building different instruments for the techniques listed in (2).
>>> These free-standing non-sequential projects depend on you having
>>> completed the “enabler” project above (and also the ones before) because
>>> otherwise you wouldn’t understand the syntax or the concepts used.
>>>
>>> By having a sound catalogue we can work around the idea that the
>>> computer is just a tool to help you create art and everything you need
>>> to learn in order to do so (the computer stuff) should always stem from
>>> that fact. I imagine we can have other “enabler” projects for, for
>>> example, covering the Cabbage Docs. An enabler project like that could,
>>> after completion, enable you to pick other small non-sequential Cabbage
>>> projects to work on.
>>>
>>> What do you think of this approach? We would need to design an
>>> attractive website that has this HTML5 sound player and then a page with
>>> an editor frame, a video (not sure) and text frame. Also maybe have the
>>> reference manual at the right side. Steven's work seems like a great
>>> starting point.
>>>
>>> Now, because the original idea was to have a “standard or base set of
>>> materials for teaching Csound” and a “semester plan/syllabus accessible”
>>> we would also need to keep in mind a possible time frame for the
>>> completion of the projects.
>>>
>>> Regarding the deepness of the conceptual aspect of each synthesis and
>>> processing technique, I have doubts. It wouldn’t make sense to rewrite
>>> Dodge & Jerse’s book so I was thinking that the conceptual part of the
>>> techniques could be explained in class and, if we were doing videos, we
>>> could have just a small review of the technique at the beginning of each
>>> project. Also the videos would look like the ones Andreas posted (which
>>> seem very well produced!), but in English and with the possibility to
>>> overdub them maybe.
>>>
>>> I sincerely apologize for the wall of text! Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

+1 I love the idea of a cooking-show for sounds!  Chef Dr. B!  (Or
would that be, Dr. Chef B? ;) )

I'm planning out some ideas for video tutorials myself, though mostly
on Blue.  I've been planning out the first set of videos as a virtual
version of the workshop I gave in Montevideo, but I'll be thinking
about a cooking show format now too. ;)  (How about the title, "Red
Hot in Blue!"  ;)  )

I'm looking forward to all of these things and hope others get
inspired to share their work too!

On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Guillermo Senna  wrote:
> Thanks, Dr. B! I'm also looking forward to following your "Cooking with
> Csound" show.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
> On 31/10/17 03:06, Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
>> Steven,
>>
>> Thanks for mentioning these "classic" toots of mine from way back when.
>>
>> I do find them to be a good model... and they have worked well at Berklee
>> and now with my students in China (both in this form and expanded
>> as Chapter1 of The Csound Book).
>>
>> In my classes, I then take them to many other places - with other tools
>> (like Cecilia4, CsoundForLive, csSpectral, Csound for iOS, Cabbage,
>> great Csound compositions like Iain's "Csound Haiku" and Steven's "Cyclic
>> Bells" & "On the Sensation of Tone",
>> and the study of synth and signal processing techniques - now as shown in
>> great detail
>> in Victor's GREAT GREAT new Computer Music Instruments Springer Book!)
>>
>> So, attention to The Csound Book, The Floss Manual, The new Springer Csound
>> Book, etc... is very important in my classes.
>>
>> Working with Csound using Commercial Production tools is a priority
>> (Cabbage and Csound for Live and Csound MIDI help with this)
>>
>> All the "new" ways of working/designing/embedding Csound is so important.
>> - I am still learning every day from what is shared on this list, the
>> journal and at the conferences!  THANKS for the INSPIRATION
>>
>> Video Demos/Tutorials are becoming increasingly important... and so...
>>
>> I plan to make more video demos
>>
>> I am considering doing a live monthly CsoundTV show from my studio
>> "This week's episode - Let's check out this opcode, lets' check out this
>> piece, let's make an instrument and a piece of our own with it!"
>>
>> I am also thinking about doing a live Modular Synthesizer Composition Show
>> from my studio
>> "This week's episode - Let's check out this module and patch together a
>> piece"
>>
>> These would be like cooking shows... but I would be cooking up sounds and
>> pieces
>>
>> Making "music" with Csound is the ultimate goal
>> The work of my colleagues and my students is a source of endless
>> inspiration
>> - for which I am eternally grateful
>>
>> Guillermo - good luck on your online course.  I am sure it will be great.
>> Can't wait to "take it"
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Dr.B.
>>
>> _____________________________________________
>> *Dr. Richard Boulanger*
>> Professor of Electronic Production and Design
>> Professional Writing and Music Technology Division
>> Berklee College of Music
>> ______________________________________________
>> President of *Boulanger Labs* - http://boulangerlabs.com
>> Author & Editor of *The Csound Book* -
>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/csound-book
>> Author & Editor of *The Audio Programming Book* -
>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/audio-programming-book
>> ______________________________________________
>> about: http://www.boulangerlabs.com/#about
>> about: http://www.csounds.com/community/developers/dr-richard-boulanger/
>> music:
>> http://www.csounds.com/community/developers/dr-richard-boulanger/dr-richard-boulanger-music/
>> ______________________________________________
>> email: rboulanger@berklee.edu
>> facebook: https://www.facebook.com/richard.boulanger.58
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Guillermo,
>>>
>>> Apologies for a very long delay to reply, but this topic is very big
>>> and there is a lot to think about. One, I would mention that Dr. B's
>>> TOOTS have been very important for this community:
>>>
>>> http://www.csounds.com/toots/
>>>
>>> And I think what I've always liked about them is that they had a nice
>>> progression, adding small bits in each TOOT.  I know we've been trying
>>> to be careful to understand what resources we have in the community
>>> and how they may or may not overlap.  I think we have the FLOSS Manual
>>> and new Csound Book to cover a lot of the world of Csound.  But these
>>> books and manuals are not necessarily Tutorials, like the TOOTS, and
>>> it seems like that may be what would work well for an online learning
>>> course.
>>>
>>> As an example, please check out the "A Tour of Go" website:
>>>
>>> https://tour.golang.org/welcome/1
>>>
>>> I modeled the Learn Csound website on it with the thought that users
>>> would do something similar: each page would have some text and maybe
>>> some Csound code to edit and experiment with.  Adding video to the
>>> pages seems like it would be fairly straightforward.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> steven
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Guillermo Senna  wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> So, for any Csound course the way I see it is that we can separate the
>>>> learning process into two distinct components: 1) the language itself
>>>> and 2) the use of the language to synthesize or process audio. This is
>>>> very clear in the FLOSS manual and the Springer book.
>>>>
>>>> My proposal is, what if instead of doing that we have an interactive
>>>> sound catalogue of some of the results you can get once you are able to
>>>> code the techniques presented in (2)? People could then come to the
>>>> website, listen to interesting sounds and then choose a synthesis or
>>>> processing technique to study. In the link to the paper I sent in my
>>>> first email this is called “consume before produce”. The syntax and the
>>>> inner workings of Csound would be explained at the same time as we are
>>>> developing the instrument for the chosen technique.
>>>>
>>>> The obvious flaw in this plan is that we would have to explain
>>>> everything related to the language itself every time we are explaining a
>>>> different technique from (2). However, a possible solution might be to
>>>> have a mixture of both approaches:
>>>>
>>>> 1) To explain the language we first use small projects (“enablers”).
>>>> These would be maybe 2 or 3 incremental, audio-related projects covering
>>>> the fundamentals of Csound while at the same time letting you build an
>>>> audio-producing instrument.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Below each “enabler project” there’s a list of other projects aiming
>>>> at building different instruments for the techniques listed in (2).
>>>> These free-standing non-sequential projects depend on you having
>>>> completed the “enabler” project above (and also the ones before) because
>>>> otherwise you wouldn’t understand the syntax or the concepts used.
>>>>
>>>> By having a sound catalogue we can work around the idea that the
>>>> computer is just a tool to help you create art and everything you need
>>>> to learn in order to do so (the computer stuff) should always stem from
>>>> that fact. I imagine we can have other “enabler” projects for, for
>>>> example, covering the Cabbage Docs. An enabler project like that could,
>>>> after completion, enable you to pick other small non-sequential Cabbage
>>>> projects to work on.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think of this approach? We would need to design an
>>>> attractive website that has this HTML5 sound player and then a page with
>>>> an editor frame, a video (not sure) and text frame. Also maybe have the
>>>> reference manual at the right side. Steven's work seems like a great
>>>> starting point.
>>>>
>>>> Now, because the original idea was to have a “standard or base set of
>>>> materials for teaching Csound” and a “semester plan/syllabus accessible”
>>>> we would also need to keep in mind a possible time frame for the
>>>> completion of the projects.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the deepness of the conceptual aspect of each synthesis and
>>>> processing technique, I have doubts. It wouldn’t make sense to rewrite
>>>> Dodge & Jerse’s book so I was thinking that the conceptual part of the
>>>> techniques could be explained in class and, if we were doing videos, we
>>>> could have just a small review of the technique at the beginning of each
>>>> project. Also the videos would look like the ones Andreas posted (which
>>>> seem very well produced!), but in English and with the possibility to
>>>> overdub them maybe.
>>>>
>>>> I sincerely apologize for the wall of text! Any thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers.
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
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Send bugs reports to
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Great discussion.

Some comments.Conceptually there are a couple things to consider no
matter the medium used to present the concepts.

1) Translation - Many users approach Csound with familiarity in
computer science, music, or related fields. Finding accessible ways to
bridge gaps between what is already known, and how it is realized in
Csound is a huge learner outcome. This is critically important because
things like "intonation" or "prosody" may have different meanings
across fields.

2) The "What is it" and "Why do I care?" - This question has to be
answered. A possible answer is something like "it is the most powerful
software synthesizer ever limited only by your imagination." Has to be
accessible.

3) Good Design Process - Making sure Design Inputs are clearly stated
at the outset saves tons of time and frustration. "Did I make the
product right?" versus "Did I make the right product?"

Making videos is easy. Making good videos not so much!

I still have a lot of work to do in this way, and I will be making
more videos as I think of stuff that may be half way interesting.
Cannot promise it will be instructive, lol.

Cheers,
David

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Guillermo Senna  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> So, for any Csound course the way I see it is that we can separate the
> learning process into two distinct components: 1) the language itself
> and 2) the use of the language to synthesize or process audio. This is
> very clear in the FLOSS manual and the Springer book.
>
> My proposal is, what if instead of doing that we have an interactive
> sound catalogue of some of the results you can get once you are able to
> code the techniques presented in (2)? People could then come to the
> website, listen to interesting sounds and then choose a synthesis or
> processing technique to study. In the link to the paper I sent in my
> first email this is called “consume before produce”. The syntax and the
> inner workings of Csound would be explained at the same time as we are
> developing the instrument for the chosen technique.
>
> The obvious flaw in this plan is that we would have to explain
> everything related to the language itself every time we are explaining a
> different technique from (2). However, a possible solution might be to
> have a mixture of both approaches:
>
> 1) To explain the language we first use small projects (“enablers”).
> These would be maybe 2 or 3 incremental, audio-related projects covering
> the fundamentals of Csound while at the same time letting you build an
> audio-producing instrument.
>
> 2) Below each “enabler project” there’s a list of other projects aiming
> at building different instruments for the techniques listed in (2).
> These free-standing non-sequential projects depend on you having
> completed the “enabler” project above (and also the ones before) because
> otherwise you wouldn’t understand the syntax or the concepts used.
>
> By having a sound catalogue we can work around the idea that the
> computer is just a tool to help you create art and everything you need
> to learn in order to do so (the computer stuff) should always stem from
> that fact. I imagine we can have other “enabler” projects for, for
> example, covering the Cabbage Docs. An enabler project like that could,
> after completion, enable you to pick other small non-sequential Cabbage
> projects to work on.
>
> What do you think of this approach? We would need to design an
> attractive website that has this HTML5 sound player and then a page with
> an editor frame, a video (not sure) and text frame. Also maybe have the
> reference manual at the right side. Steven's work seems like a great
> starting point.
>
> Now, because the original idea was to have a “standard or base set of
> materials for teaching Csound” and a “semester plan/syllabus accessible”
> we would also need to keep in mind a possible time frame for the
> completion of the projects.
>
> Regarding the deepness of the conceptual aspect of each synthesis and
> processing technique, I have doubts. It wouldn’t make sense to rewrite
> Dodge & Jerse’s book so I was thinking that the conceptual part of the
> techniques could be explained in class and, if we were doing videos, we
> could have just a small review of the technique at the beginning of each
> project. Also the videos would look like the ones Andreas posted (which
> seem very well produced!), but in English and with the possibility to
> overdub them maybe.
>
> I sincerely apologize for the wall of text! Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers.
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here