I'd like to address the issue of a "non-installer-used" version for 
Windows - i.e, a .zip archive.

Is it not true that the only real difference between the two is that the 
installer gives the Python option and installs environment variables?

Wouldn't you get the same installation by using the installer, specifying 
"no Python", then deleting the environment variables (which amount to 6 or 
so entries)?

I'd be interested in knowing what, if any, *other* value there would be in 
offering a .zip archive version. (One idea would be to offer a further 
"stripped-down" version. I work in such a version myself - putting 
everything [which is not much] in a single folder. But this is a 
customization for my own unique purpose.

If there is a verifiable need for a .zip distribution, and the above 
assumptions are correct, it should be simple for someone to install the 
float version (default location), without Python, zip it up (optionally 
stripping it down a bit - any stripping would need to be discussed), and 
send it back somewhere for download.

I'd volunteer for such a task, always upgrading to the most recent *float* 
release (Windows - I only use the real-time version). I could upload to my 
own website, to csounds.com or to sourceforge, for that matter.

I'm wide open to ideas/feedback (and will do *nothing* without substantial 
encouragement).

Art Hunkins

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Panos Katergiathis" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:09 AM
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Version 5.09 released


>
> Thank you all for your hard work.
>
> Three questions though:
> a) Where can it be downloaded?
> b) Has anyone removed the "Beta" indicator from the Windows version?
> c) Is there a non-installer-used version for Windows?
>
> Panos
>
>
>
>
>
> jpff wrote:
>> We are pleased to announce the release of the next version of csound,
>> 5.09
>>
>> This is mainly a maintenence release but there are major new opcodes
>> and operations.
>>
>> At present the CVS is missing a few packages; these will be added in
>> the next few days.
>>
>> ==John ffitch
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Notes for 5.09
>> ==============
>>
>> New Opcodes:
>>      ambisonics now in bformenc1/bformdec1 and correct.
>>      bformenc1/bformdec1 are now depreicated and should not be used
>>      Chua's Oscillator
>>      Csound i-rate and k-rate opcodes for much standard linear algebra 
>> over
>> real and complex vectors and matrices: elementwise arithmetic, norms,
>> transpose and conjugate, inner products, matrix inverse, LU 
>> decomposition,
>> QR decomposition, and QR-based eigenvalue decomposition. Includes
>> copying vectors to and from a-rate signals, function tables, and 
>> f-signals.
>>      Vosim opcode
>>      dcblock2 opcode
>>      setscorepos and rewindscore opcodes
>>
>> New Gen
>>      exp plugin GEN
>>
>> Modified Opcodes and Gens:
>>      vbap family now take k-rate third and fourth arguments
>>      Deprecate soundout in favour of fout
>>      Added 'skip normalisation argument'  to tanh GEN
>>      Fixed space opcodes to accept non-pow-2 (deferred) tables
>>      Added optional envelopes for sfont opcode (extra argument) using
>> sfont file parameters Bugs fixed:
>>      printk and printks check that opcode is initialised
>>      poscil no longer overwrites frequency if variable is shared
>>      Error on /* */ comments in orchestra fixed
>>      Fixed pvsmorph bug System Changes:
>>      New parser has #include and argumentless macros
>>      Allow scientific notation (as was in csound4!) in Gen23
>>      pulseaudio IO plugin module
>>      added scheduler priority option on alsa
>>
>> Internal:
>>      A number of small changes
>>      Includes experimental multicore
>>      Less casting between floats and doubles in float version
>>      buzz rewritten
>>
>>
>> **end**
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe 
>> csound"
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe 
> csound" 

> Wouldn't you get the same installation by using the installer, 
> specifying "no Python", then deleting the environment variables (which 
> amount to 6 or so entries)?

yes, indeed.

> I'd be interested in knowing what, if any, *other* value there would be 
> in offering a .zip archive version. (One idea would be to offer a 
> further "stripped-down" version. I work in such a version myself - 
> putting everything [which is not much] in a single folder. But this is a 
> customization for my own unique purpose.

I use a stripped-down version myself, but it's quite likely that no two 
people would agree about what should be in it.

now, to answer your question: I develop a set of programs where csound 
is mainly a component. currently, I have to launch the installer in a 
virtual OS (a sandbox so that I know for sure my system settings will 
not be messed up), pick up the files, maybe kill a couple python-related 
dlls, then add a csound.bat allowing me to work with csound without the 
need for any environment variable (see below).

then I can go back to my main system, where I can at last work at the 
same time with different flavors of csound, in a space not polluted by 
global environment variables, and thus develop and test my software as I 
wish.

so a plain zip would be nice for me. I would just have to unzip it, 
period. no need for any *other* value :)

it would be even more useful to an end-user of my software: he could 
upgrade csound by himself, simply by replacing the content of a folder. 
currently, it is a very non-trivial operation that I do not even want to 
describe in a how-to text.

does this answer your question ?

> 
> If there is a verifiable need for a .zip distribution, and the above 
> assumptions are correct, it should be simple for someone to install the 
> float version (default location), without Python, zip it up (optionally 
> stripping it down a bit - any stripping would need to be discussed), and 
> send it back somewhere for download.
> 
> I'd volunteer for such a task, always upgrading to the most recent 
> *float* release (Windows - I only use the real-time version). I could 
> upload to my own website, to csounds.com or to sourceforge, for that 
> matter.

the point is: I don't understand why the csound maintainers do not 
provide the .zip on sourceforge along with the installer; for them, it 
should be an utterly trivial task. considering that I and others have 
asked for this at least a dozen times these last *years*, the fact that 
  this is not there yet just puzzles me.

... as do the python dependency, but that is another story.


regards,

Stef


appendix: the csound.bat contents

	@cd %~p0
	@set CSOUNDRC=..\.csoundrc
	@set OPCODEDIR64=..\plugins64
	@set OPCODEDIR=..\plugins
	@set RAWWAVE_PATH=..\samples
	@set SFOUTYP=WAV
	@set PYTHONPATH=%PYTHONPATH%;%~p0
	csound.exe %*

... just put this in the csound/bin folder, zip the csound folder and 
you're done.

Art Hunkins wrote:

> I'm wide open to ideas/feedback (and will do *nothing* without 
> substantial encouragement).

Measured in hundreds of begging e-mail messages ? :)

Seriously, i may be wrong but your question can be reversed: what is the 
point in providing an installer? What purpose does it serve?

Windows users (myself included) always think of "installed" software, as 
software that has installed hundreds of dll files, in hundreds of 
possible locations, accompanied by hundreds of registry entries. 
Therefore, as software that can not be un-installed.

Perhaps, Csound does not follow the rule.. perhaps uninstalling it only 
means that one can delete the related directory, and that is it?

Do as you will (i would think that it wouldn't be too difficult to 
provide that zip file). Also, someone please remove that "Beta" 
indicator, or provide some explanation on its purpose (it only appears 
on Windows, not Mac nor Linux).

Many thanks

Panos