----- Original Message -----

From: Rory Walsh

To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk

Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:24 AM

Subject: [Csnd] latest installers for windows...

Just tried the latest installer for windows. I choose to install without python and when I run Csound I get the dreaded 'application has failed to start because python25.dll was not found'. I thought this had been sorted out? Perhaps I missed something.

Rory.

This is just a personal opinion, derived from my own experience, I hope 
it is useful. I find that Python and Csound getting along well is 
important for Csound to continue to be up-to-date. I find it essential 
for a synthesis+composition+performance tool to be (relatively) 
accessible to musicians that have no programming background (like myself).

In my experience making something optional is usually equal to slowly 
killing it (e.g. you can optionally work ten more years and get a better 
pension, and you are lucky 'cause your children will have to work those 
extra ten years to get your normal retirement conditions). I wouldn't 
like Python functionality to become optional just because not all of us 
need it. OK, I don't need Python integrated into Csound. Just the 
Csound-Python library to communicate with the Csound API. However, now I 
understand the implications of the following quote by Andrés Cabrera 
(which I must admit I mistrusted when I became interested in doing 
non-acoustic algorithmic composition but now support) in the Csound 
Journal, issue 6:

    Though learning Python means having to grasp a new syntax and a new
    way to express algorithms, it is generally accepted that Python is
    one of the easiest programming languages to learn. Python is an
    interpreted language, which means it executes the code line by line
    as it receives it, without the need of building (compiling) a binary
    to run, like in C or Java. Python is also a weakly typed language,
    which means you don't need to declare variable types (you don't need
    to specify whether you want a string, an array or an integer, Python
    deduces it from what you fill it with), and more importantly, many
    variable type conversions and operations are greatly simplified^1
    .
    It also has very easy-to-use arrays and lists, which can be nested
    and controlled easily. The big bonus of learning Python is that
    apart from enabling more complex data structures, and that all the
    features from the Python language will be available from a Csound
    orchestra or .csd file, you learn a very powerful but simple
    language that can help you in many computer chores.

Plus, it seems to me that the problem is platform specific, right? 
Neither my Mac (10.3.9) or Debian (etch-n-half) have trouble (because 
Python comes pre-installed the shared library is, perhaps, better 
implemented?), nor do they have to deal with window's implementation of 
shared libraries (.dlls), which is a pain in the neck. Why would one 
want to downgrade the Mac and Linux versions?

If this is redundant, I also apologize. I registered in the list after 
this topic was discussed.
Cheers,

Ernesto


Steven Yi wrote:
> Maybe the best solution is to not bother with python detection and
> just making the python related stuff be an optional part of the
> installer?  So that the installer has the "Core Csound" option as a
> required installation option, then the python related opcodes and
> features then as an optional package that has the description "This
> features requires Python 2.5 installed.  If the user does not have
> python installed you may get errors at startup. Python can be
> installed at python.org"  and it will the responsibility of the user
> to actively decide to install python related opcodes or not.  I think
> we may have discussed an option like this before but don't remember
> what the resolution was on it.
>
> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Rory Walsh  wrote:
>   
>> It was the float version that I downloaded. I installed it on a machine that
>> I had just reinstalled windows xp on. Csound was the first thing I installed
>> on it. Is there any chance that you have the python25.dll somewhere on your
>> machine and that Csound knows where to look for it?
>>
>> Rory.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2008/9/22 Art Hunkins 
>>     
>>> IIRC, I had no problems installing the float version without Python -
>>> i.e., the problem is gone for me.
>>>
>>> However, I'm waiting on the portaudio problem, which *is* holding me up.
>>>
>>> I assume the issues are unrelated, as Csound initializes just fine until
>>> just before the end, when it tries to sort out the audio drivers.
>>>
>>> Art Hunkins
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Rory Walsh
>>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:24 AM
>>> Subject: [Csnd] latest installers for windows...
>>> Just tried the latest installer for windows. I choose to install without
>>> python and when I run Csound I get the dreaded 'application has failed to
>>> start because python25.dll was not found'. I thought this had been sorted
>>> out? Perhaps I missed something.
>>>
>>> Rory.
>>>
>>>       
>>     
>
>
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>