Thanks for your informative reply!

I will think about what you ask for regarding time/frequency and hetro, although I'm not a primary developer in these areas. I do know enough about the PVS facilities that I think you can probably figure out some way to do what you want with these opcodes instead of hetro. Or is PVS what you meant by "vocoder" and you prefer the sound of hetro/adsyn?

By the way, as computers go multi-core, we are working on making Csound multi-threaded and this should begin to really speed things up in the next year or so. I expect about 50% faster with 2 cores, 75%-100% faster with 3 cores, and so on.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Mooney/Maxine Heller 
>Sent: Jul 1, 2008 1:29 PM
>To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>Subject: [Csnd] Re:  Re: Csound on Sonus
>
>Mike--
>
>Thanks for listening.
>
>At 02:00 PM 6/29/2008, you wrote:
>
>>What are the pros and cons, for you personally, of working with 
>>Csound versus working with Kyma?
>
>Kyma is more intuitive than Csound; Csound provides a deeper 
>understanding of what is actually happening. I first tried Csound in 
>the mid 90s but couldn't figure it out. Kyma taught me a lot and now 
>Csound makes sense. Kyma is faster and its deeper levels allow for a 
>great deal of detailed control over sounds, though it is quite 
>possible to work "out of the box" as it were, in a preset sort of 
>mode, with the many sounds that come ready made. Csound more or less 
>forces me to create detailed control, to pay more attention to 
>nuance, which for me is a plus. Though I personally don't work this 
>way, Kyma certainly has much more power and adaptability for live 
>real time interactive performance than Csound. The Kyma developers 
>have put a lot of effort into this. The tremendous advantage of 
>Csound, of course, is the price difference. The manuals in both cases 
>are excellent.
>
>
>>What features would you like to see added to Csound?
>
>Kyma has a time-frequency stretcher that is really nice. It works 
>from a sample. The closest thing I've found in Csound is sndwarp 
>(which is not working in 5.n if I recall correctly some postings from 
>a short while back). Functionally it allows for separate enveloping 
>of frequency and speed through the file (in either direction), sort 
>of like using GEN05 or GEN07 envelopes with adsynt/phasorbnk sounds.
>
>Another feature that would be helpful is more direct access and 
>control over the amplitude/frequency data generating with the Hetro 
>utility. For example, to use the frequencies of one sound with the 
>amplitudes of another. I know this can be done with vocoders but 
>vocoders seem to have a particular sound quality that I don't always 
>want. Something a step removed that would allow me to apply the het 
>data as controllers or envelopes for another sound is what I have in mind.
>
>Some of the Csound features are hard to find in the Manual. For 
>example, it would be nice to list the GENS and utilities in the 
>alphabetical list at end.
>
>These things could well exist! My exploration of Csound has been very 
>slow and deliberate.
>
>
>
>>Do you plan to keep on using Csound? If so, why, and if not, why not?
>
>Most definitely. I like knowing what makes a sound tick, which in 
>turn makes it easier to realize what's in my head, and ultimately 
>makes the technology transparent. The learning/challenge aspect of 
>Csound is the big attraction for me. The other thing that has always 
>attracted me to Csound (why I looked at it in the first place) is its 
>relative timelessness. If there is anything that represents "computer 
>music" as a stable environment with longevity, it's Csound. It strips 
>away the ever-changing commercial software/hardware layer and lets me 
>work far more directly with sound in a manner that's been around for 
>quite a while and looks like it will continue.
>
>It is also economic reality that since retiring from my day job I 
>cannot afford the expensive upgrade rounds that Kyma and everything 
>else force one into. With Csound, a decent computer, I/O, and DA 
>converter are all I really need.
>
>
>>How did you make these pieces? I am particularly interested to know 
>>if you assembled the parts in directly in the Csound languages, or 
>>with a makefile, or with a scripting language, or in Pro Tools or 
>>some other editor -- or whatever.
>
>My method of working with Csound is pretty much the same as it was 
>with Kyma: I develop the sounds and get them functioning then apply 
>whatever controls and score parameters are needed to generate the 
>finished version of that sound for the composition at hand. How much 
>of this is done in a single csd file depends a lot on the complexity 
>of the sound. "A Little Noise Goes a Long Way" (which is  just a 
>bunch of severely tweaked nested allpass filters feeding each other, 
>based and Hans Mikelson's chapter in the Csound book), was done 
>mostly in a single csd file in Csound. The "Olbum's Furniture" piece 
>uses several reinit loops that didn't work too well together in file, 
>so it was more a case of making layers and mixing them in SONAR. The 
>only other software I use is Adobe Audition for tweaking output 
>sounds when needed and getting samples ready for use in Csound, and 
>some simple C++ programs for generating parameter values. All of this 
>is very interactive, sort of composing from the inside out.
>
>I used scripting in Kyma. Python seems like a good approach but so 
>far I haven't had much luck getting it to work and have put it aside for now.
>
>My eternal thanks to you and the other Csound developers--
>
>--David
>
>
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "David Mooney/Maxine Heller" 
>>To: 
>>Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:37 AM
>>Subject: [Csnd] Csound on Sonus
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > My first two "full length" Csound works have been archived on the
>> > Sonus.ca web site. To listen, go to Sonus.ca and search for "mooney".
>> > The Csound pieces are at the end of the list, on the second screen:
>> > "A Little Noise Goes a Long Way," played last fall at Electronic
>> > Music Midwest, and "Olbum's Furniture," completed earlier this year.
>> > (The other works on Sonus were done with Kyma). Enjoy--
>> >
>> > --David
>> >
>> > David Mooney:  dmooney@city-net.com
>> > Maxine Heller:  mheller@city-net.com
>> > Opaque Melodies:  www.city-net.com/~moko/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Send bugs reports to this list.
>> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Send bugs reports to this list.
>>To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>>"unsubscribe csound"
>
>David Mooney:  dmooney@city-net.com
>Maxine Heller:  mheller@city-net.com
>Opaque Melodies:  www.city-net.com/~moko/
>
>
>
>Send bugs reports to this list.
>To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

In my opinion it would be better to get the ats  opodes really  
working, as these opcodes already give access to all that David  
Mooney is asking for, just a pity they don't work so well. They're  
working perfectly in supercollider by the way. Also ATS analysis is  
much better sounding than hetro and can be applied to more complex  
sounds (due to the noise extraction function).

To get the ats opcodes working would be a valuable investment for all  
those that are interested in frequency domain synthesis and csound. I  
for one would send flowers to whoever fixes them, or maybe a pint is  
more promising? Don't lets have to learn supercollider just because  
of one non-maintained opcode. I haven't heard back from the developer  
yet since last year, he did say he is busy, but can someone else fix  
them? I'll happily do the testing :-)

Thanks very much

Best
Peiman

On 1 Jul 2008, at 18:53, Michael Gogins wrote:

> Thanks for your informative reply!
>
> I will think about what you ask for regarding time/frequency and  
> hetro, although I'm not a primary developer in these areas. I do  
> know enough about the PVS facilities that I think you can probably  
> figure out some way to do what you want with these opcodes instead  
> of hetro. Or is PVS what you meant by "vocoder" and you prefer the  
> sound of hetro/adsyn?
>
> By the way, as computers go multi-core, we are working on making  
> Csound multi-threaded and this should begin to really speed things  
> up in the next year or so. I expect about 50% faster with 2 cores,  
> 75%-100% faster with 3 cores, and so on.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Mooney/Maxine Heller 
>> Sent: Jul 1, 2008 1:29 PM
>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> Subject: [Csnd] Re:  Re: Csound on Sonus
>>
>> Mike--
>>
>> Thanks for listening.
>>
>> At 02:00 PM 6/29/2008, you wrote:
>>
>>> What are the pros and cons, for you personally, of working with
>>> Csound versus working with Kyma?
>>
>> Kyma is more intuitive than Csound; Csound provides a deeper
>> understanding of what is actually happening. I first tried Csound in
>> the mid 90s but couldn't figure it out. Kyma taught me a lot and now
>> Csound makes sense. Kyma is faster and its deeper levels allow for a
>> great deal of detailed control over sounds, though it is quite
>> possible to work "out of the box" as it were, in a preset sort of
>> mode, with the many sounds that come ready made. Csound more or less
>> forces me to create detailed control, to pay more attention to
>> nuance, which for me is a plus. Though I personally don't work this
>> way, Kyma certainly has much more power and adaptability for live
>> real time interactive performance than Csound. The Kyma developers
>> have put a lot of effort into this. The tremendous advantage of
>> Csound, of course, is the price difference. The manuals in both cases
>> are excellent.
>>
>>
>>> What features would you like to see added to Csound?
>>
>> Kyma has a time-frequency stretcher that is really nice. It works
>> from a sample. The closest thing I've found in Csound is sndwarp
>> (which is not working in 5.n if I recall correctly some postings from
>> a short while back). Functionally it allows for separate enveloping
>> of frequency and speed through the file (in either direction), sort
>> of like using GEN05 or GEN07 envelopes with adsynt/phasorbnk sounds.
>>
>> Another feature that would be helpful is more direct access and
>> control over the amplitude/frequency data generating with the Hetro
>> utility. For example, to use the frequencies of one sound with the
>> amplitudes of another. I know this can be done with vocoders but
>> vocoders seem to have a particular sound quality that I don't always
>> want. Something a step removed that would allow me to apply the het
>> data as controllers or envelopes for another sound is what I have  
>> in mind.
>>
>> Some of the Csound features are hard to find in the Manual. For
>> example, it would be nice to list the GENS and utilities in the
>> alphabetical list at end.
>>
>> These things could well exist! My exploration of Csound has been very
>> slow and deliberate.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Do you plan to keep on using Csound? If so, why, and if not, why  
>>> not?
>>
>> Most definitely. I like knowing what makes a sound tick, which in
>> turn makes it easier to realize what's in my head, and ultimately
>> makes the technology transparent. The learning/challenge aspect of
>> Csound is the big attraction for me. The other thing that has always
>> attracted me to Csound (why I looked at it in the first place) is its
>> relative timelessness. If there is anything that represents "computer
>> music" as a stable environment with longevity, it's Csound. It strips
>> away the ever-changing commercial software/hardware layer and lets me
>> work far more directly with sound in a manner that's been around for
>> quite a while and looks like it will continue.
>>
>> It is also economic reality that since retiring from my day job I
>> cannot afford the expensive upgrade rounds that Kyma and everything
>> else force one into. With Csound, a decent computer, I/O, and DA
>> converter are all I really need.
>>
>>
>>> How did you make these pieces? I am particularly interested to know
>>> if you assembled the parts in directly in the Csound languages, or
>>> with a makefile, or with a scripting language, or in Pro Tools or
>>> some other editor -- or whatever.
>>
>> My method of working with Csound is pretty much the same as it was
>> with Kyma: I develop the sounds and get them functioning then apply
>> whatever controls and score parameters are needed to generate the
>> finished version of that sound for the composition at hand. How much
>> of this is done in a single csd file depends a lot on the complexity
>> of the sound. "A Little Noise Goes a Long Way" (which is  just a
>> bunch of severely tweaked nested allpass filters feeding each other,
>> based and Hans Mikelson's chapter in the Csound book), was done
>> mostly in a single csd file in Csound. The "Olbum's Furniture" piece
>> uses several reinit loops that didn't work too well together in file,
>> so it was more a case of making layers and mixing them in SONAR. The
>> only other software I use is Adobe Audition for tweaking output
>> sounds when needed and getting samples ready for use in Csound, and
>> some simple C++ programs for generating parameter values. All of this
>> is very interactive, sort of composing from the inside out.
>>
>> I used scripting in Kyma. Python seems like a good approach but so
>> far I haven't had much luck getting it to work and have put it  
>> aside for now.
>>
>> My eternal thanks to you and the other Csound developers--
>>
>> --David
>>
>>
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "David Mooney/Maxine Heller" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:37 AM
>>> Subject: [Csnd] Csound on Sonus
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My first two "full length" Csound works have been archived on the
>>>> Sonus.ca web site. To listen, go to Sonus.ca and search for  
>>>> "mooney".
>>>> The Csound pieces are at the end of the list, on the second screen:
>>>> "A Little Noise Goes a Long Way," played last fall at Electronic
>>>> Music Midwest, and "Olbum's Furniture," completed earlier this  
>>>> year.
>>>> (The other works on Sonus were done with Kyma). Enjoy--
>>>>
>>>> --David
>>>>
>>>> David Mooney:  dmooney@city-net.com
>>>> Maxine Heller:  mheller@city-net.com
>>>> Opaque Melodies:  www.city-net.com/~moko/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>> David Mooney:  dmooney@city-net.com
>> Maxine Heller:  mheller@city-net.com
>> Opaque Melodies:  www.city-net.com/~moko/
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"