This is a personal message for Sal Sophia of this list - sorry.

His direct address rejected this email for some reason.

Thanks -

Art Hunkins

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Art Hunkins" 
To: "sal g sofia" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: Hello Art.


> Hello, Sal,
>
> Thanks for sharing this. Fascinating.
>
> I really know fairly little Latin, though I love liturgy and liturgical 
> music. Here are a couple of ruminations on the two Latin phrases (I assume 
> both sung backwards by male voices unaccompanied - as in a chant choir).
>
> The "O" at the beginning of both phrases suggests addressing (speaking to) 
> whoever follows, and thus the beginning of a phrase - and possibly the 
> beginning of a composition or a verse thereof. (To splice out a segment of 
> tape cleanly this is also a likely assumption.)
>
> The opening of the Offertory of the Requiem Mass immediately comes to 
> mind; however, it lacks the "O" (it is "Domine, Jesu Christe"). 
> Interestingly, Faure, in his Requiem includes the "O" as well as repeating 
> the phrase several times during the movement. Of course, Faure's melody, 
> though sung alone originally by unaccompanied male voices, it not chant or 
> even chant-like. I think the inclusion of "O" in the Faure Requiem is the 
> exception rather than the rule however.
>
> I suggest that "O Salvato (re)" is probably "O Salvator", as I think 
> Salvatore is Italian, not Latin. "Salvatorem" is also possible, but the 
> wrong case (not direct form of address). I cannot identify a chant that 
> begins with this text (though that doesn't mean there isn't one - it's 
> certainly quite likely. It just isn't a well-known one, I guess).
>
> Both texts are certainly liturgical, addressing "God, Jesus" and "Savior" 
> respectively. I'll assume you can identify both snippets as being sung by 
> a choir of unison monks, or similar.
>
> Together with the somber church bell(s?) one makes the liturgical 
> connection, possibly to a funeral. I can't find "O Salvator" in the Roman 
> Liturgy for the Dead, however.
>
> I'd be interested in knowing whatever else you come up with. (Playing the 
> work backwards was certainly an excellent idea.)
>
> Take care -
>
> Art Hunkins
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "sal g sofia" 
> To: "Art Hunkins" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:12 AM
> Subject: Hello Art.
>
>
>>
>> Dear Art,
>>
>> I have been sending my Varese's "Poeme Electronique" analysis to some
>> people, and since you beside music also appreciate Latin I thought you
>> would like to know about this:
>>
>> In the year 2000 while I was a doctoral student of composition, studying
>> with Professor Richard Karpen at the University of Washington, among
>> other music studies and composing I did few analyses (since I am also
>> a percussioner and have a great admiration for Varese and his works)
>> I thought that "Poeme Electronique" would be good food for the brain.
>>
>> Nevertheless, while I enjoyed doing the analysis I
>> also listened to it backwards and found few interesting things in the
>> audio and a few Latin (religious) phrases... "Chart 3".
>>
>> I would appreciate very much your comments.
>>
>> Thank you for your time.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> --Sal
> 

Art,

  Thank you for your enlightening input,
it is good to know what you wrote.

I found out that Edgard Varese was a religious man, in the book
(Varese, A Looking-Glass Diary) that his wife Louise Varese wrote.
A good book to have if you find it.

Best regards,

--Sal





On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Art Hunkins wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Art Hunkins" 
> To: "sal g sofia" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 12:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Hello Art.
>
>
>> Hello, Sal,
>> 
>> Thanks for sharing this. Fascinating.
>> 
>> I really know fairly little Latin, though I love liturgy and liturgical 
>> music. Here are a couple of ruminations on the two Latin phrases (I assume 
>> both sung backwards by male voices unaccompanied - as in a chant choir).
>> 
>> The "O" at the beginning of both phrases suggests addressing (speaking to) 
>> whoever follows, and thus the beginning of a phrase - and possibly the 
>> beginning of a composition or a verse thereof. (To splice out a segment of 
>> tape cleanly this is also a likely assumption.)
>> 
>> The opening of the Offertory of the Requiem Mass immediately comes to mind; 
>> however, it lacks the "O" (it is "Domine, Jesu Christe"). Interestingly, 
>> Faure, in his Requiem includes the "O" as well as repeating the phrase 
>> several times during the movement. Of course, Faure's melody, though sung 
>> alone originally by unaccompanied male voices, it not chant or even 
>> chant-like. I think the inclusion of "O" in the Faure Requiem is the 
>> exception rather than the rule however.
>> 
>> I suggest that "O Salvato (re)" is probably "O Salvator", as I think 
>> Salvatore is Italian, not Latin. "Salvatorem" is also possible, but the 
>> wrong case (not direct form of address). I cannot identify a chant that 
>> begins with this text (though that doesn't mean there isn't one - it's 
>> certainly quite likely. It just isn't a well-known one, I guess).
>> 
>> Both texts are certainly liturgical, addressing "God, Jesus" and "Savior" 
>> respectively. I'll assume you can identify both snippets as being sung by a 
>> choir of unison monks, or similar.
>> 
>> Together with the somber church bell(s?) one makes the liturgical 
>> connection, possibly to a funeral. I can't find "O Salvator" in the Roman 
>> Liturgy for the Dead, however.
>> 
>> I'd be interested in knowing whatever else you come up with. (Playing the 
>> work backwards was certainly an excellent idea.)
>> 
>> Take care -
>> 
>> Art Hunkins
>