I've just learned that the Linux Audio conference next month will be within
driving distance of my house. I'm not a Linux user, but since I may know a
few of the people there, I thought it might be fun to drop by.

But I'd feel a tiny bit more legit if I had a tiny bit more experience with
Linux. So I would love it if someone could suggest how I might be able to
download and install a good version of Linux to this PC without, you know,
making myself completely crazy.

I found a site (http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download) that
purports to have an Ubuntu installer for Windows, but the installer
complained that I didn't have a disk in the drive -- which was rather silly,
as I had never been instructed that I _needed_ an external disk. And then
the installer's pyrun.exe flat-out wouldn't quit. I had to do a cold boot,
as even Task Manager couldn't make it give up. So I'm not sure that's the
best source of a downloadable version....

Suggestions welcome!

--JA

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On Mar 10, 2012, at 2:15 AM, Jim Aikin wrote:

> I've just learned that the Linux Audio conference next month will be within
> driving distance of my house. I'm not a Linux user, but since I may know a
> few of the people there, I thought it might be fun to drop by.
> 
> But I'd feel a tiny bit more legit if I had a tiny bit more experience with
> Linux. So I would love it if someone could suggest how I might be able to
> download and install a good version of Linux to this PC without, you know,
> making myself completely crazy.
> 
> I found a site (http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download) that
> purports to have an Ubuntu installer for Windows, but the installer
> complained that I didn't have a disk in the drive -- which was rather silly,
> as I had never been instructed that I _needed_ an external disk. And then
> the installer's pyrun.exe flat-out wouldn't quit. I had to do a cold boot,
> as even Task Manager couldn't make it give up. So I'm not sure that's the
> best source of a downloadable version....
> 
> Suggestions welcome!
> 
I managed to install it, just click repeatedly and it installs.

-matti

on 2012-03-09 at 16:15 Jim Aikin wrote:

>But I'd feel a tiny bit more legit if I had a tiny bit more experience
>with Linux. So I would love it if someone could suggest how I might be
>able to download and install a good version of Linux to this PC without,
>you know, making myself completely crazy.

no guarantee about the last part (going crazy trying). actually, no
guarantee about the previous part either (a "good" version of linux), but
i guess that there are basically three possible approaches:

1) try a live distribution: you can boot and try a linux system directly
from the cd or dvd, without any actual installation;

2) install linux on a virtual machine running on your windows system:
you'll be able to run and configure a "real" linux system, without having
to repartition your drive or configuring the boot loader. virtualbox is
free and works great (on linux at least);

3) repartition your drive and actually install linux on your machine:
you'll have a dual boot computer.

i guess there's also 4): if you have an old computer lying around that you
don't use and that you don't mind wiping out, you can use it as a
playground.

as for distributions, ubuntu is usually very easy to install, and most of
the time everything works out of the box. one caveat though: avoid at all
costs an execrable user interface called "unity". when i have to install
ubuntu for some reason, i choose a version called xubuntu, that uses xfce
as default window manager. 

good luck!

Thanks, Luis. Good suggestion!

> i guess there's also 4): if you have an old computer lying around that you
> don't use and that you don't mind wiping out, you can use it as a
> playground. 

As it turns out, I didn't have to wipe it out. I have a WinXP laptop that I
never use because it tends to overheat and shut itself off when asked to do
CPU-intensive tasks (such as, oh, audio DSP, for example). The Ubuntu
Windows download/install worked flawlessly in it, and I now have a dual-boot
machine.

--JA

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I suggest AVlinux - runs also from live dvd, lightwaight and everything ready for audio work.
Tarmo

on 2012-03-09 at 22:42 Jim Aikin wrote:

> The Ubuntu Windows download/install worked flawlessly in it, and I now
> have a dual-boot machine.

great! congratulations, and welcome to the wonderful world of linux... :-)

one problem that i have with ubuntu is that two of the most important
packages for me aren't well supported, and are either somewhat outdated
(csound), or totally obsolete (lilypond). you can get somewhat newer
versions allowing the "unstable" branch.

good luck!

Lilypond obsolete? I thought there was a new version of it a couple months ago.

on 2012-03-10 at 09:02 Adam Puckett wrote:

>Lilypond obsolete? I thought there was a new version of it a couple
>months ago.

sorry if i didn't express myself clearly: what i meant was that the
latest version of lilypond that you can get on "stable" debian/ubuntu
repositories is obsolete: like 2.12 something. this is really prehistoric,
and since lilypond doesn't observe much backwards compatibility, it's
pretty much unusable. 

to get the latest *stable* release of lilypond, you have to go for the
*unstable* repositories, and that can get really unstable sometimes.

the latest developing version of lilypond (2.15.x) is not available at all.

the situation is not so extreme but similar with csound: latest stable
version is 5.13, and the latest available in any way is 5.14.

of course you can always install from sources outside the package manager,
but i don't that a bit messy. after all, what's the idea of a distribution
with some sort of package management?


caveat: i'm not very savant in debian/ubuntu, perhaps it's just that i
don't know how to get updated packages. but i doubt it.

Debian uses a much more literal version of stable than most of the software world. I use Debian because having programs rarely crash is a big priority to me. I have a short lit of programs )including csound) that I install from source into /usr/local because I like the newer features. And it is great to have the /usr/bin version of csound around when the up to date one is buggy. If Debian and its forks move to slow feature wise and you don't want to deal with compiling from source I hear great things about Arch and Fedora.

----- Original message -----
>
> on 2012-03-10 at 09:02 Adam Puckett wrote:
>
> > Lilypond obsolete? I thought there was a new version of it a couple
> > months ago.
>
> sorry if i didn't express myself clearly: what i meant was that the
> latest version of lilypond that you can get on "stable" debian/ubuntu
> repositories is obsolete: like 2.12 something. this is really
> prehistoric, and since lilypond doesn't observe much backwards
> compatibility, it's pretty much unusable.
>
> to get the latest *stable* release of lilypond, you have to go for the
> *unstable* repositories, and that can get really unstable sometimes.
>
> the latest developing version of lilypond (2.15.x) is not available at
> all.
>
> the situation is not so extreme but similar with csound: latest stable
> version is 5.13, and the latest available in any way is 5.14.
>
> of course you can always install from sources outside the package
> manager, but i don't that a bit messy. after all, what's the idea of a
> distribution with some sort of package management?
>
>
> caveat: i'm not very savant in debian/ubuntu, perhaps it's just that i
> don't know how to get updated packages. but i doubt it.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>                        https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>

> one caveat though: avoid at all
> costs an execrable user interface called "unity". when i have to install
> ubuntu for some reason, i choose a version called xubuntu, that uses xfce
> as default window manager. 

When I downloaded Ubuntu, what I got was the Unity interface. I can sense,
dimly, that there might be reasons why it's not ideal, so now I've
downloaded xubuntu, which comes as an .iso file. However, I have no idea on
Earth what to do with it. Other than extract the contents, of course.

I used Package Manager to download Csound (5.13 ... oh, well). Package
Manager told me Csound was installed, but Dash can't find it as an app,
which means that I have no idea how to run it. Possibly from the terminal,
but Unity "cleverly" doesn't display the actual directory structure in its
Windows-type file explorer (in particular, there's no Applications
directory, nor anything resembling it), so I'll have to learn to use a few
terminal commands to even find the Csound files.

I also downloaded the most recent Csound 5.16 tarball from SourceForge. What
I now find is that the information Dave Phillips very kindly provided for my
new book about how to compile Csound in Linux doesn't really tell me what to
do. That discussion (on p. 26) begins, "Assuming all of the necessary build
tools are installed...." And already I'm lost. While reading my own book,
which is a chastening experience, I have to say. I should have gone through
this learning process six months ago, shouldn't I?

To some extent I'm just whining. (Whining being one of my less attractive
specialties.) I don't actually NEED Linux at all, much less Csound running
in Linux. But I'm fairly curious about how the whole experience plays out. I
had a look around the Web for Ubuntu documentation, and found nothing
resembling a clear discussion of anything. I'm starting to wonder if the
Linux version of RTFM is AYSA (ask your system administrator).

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Installing the development tools should not be too difficult with the Ubuntu GUI package manager (or whatever it is called). A few weeks ago, I downloaded and installed Ubuntu on a laptop, after installation, it automatically went looking for updates and installed all the devel tools. I still had to go and get emacs, but that was easy enough (using apt-get on the command-line). In fact, I found it very simple to get and install packages. The other day I needed latex. I typed tex on the terminal and the system gave me the name of the package I needed to install for it. 

Previously, I had been using fedora, and the usual thing was to install all of it from the DVDs (all packages came in it), which I think was convenient. But with Ubuntu, it seems to be just as easy.

Victor
On 11 Mar 2012, at 07:43, Jim Aikin wrote:

>> one caveat though: avoid at all
>> costs an execrable user interface called "unity". when i have to install
>> ubuntu for some reason, i choose a version called xubuntu, that uses xfce
>> as default window manager. 
> 
> When I downloaded Ubuntu, what I got was the Unity interface. I can sense,
> dimly, that there might be reasons why it's not ideal, so now I've
> downloaded xubuntu, which comes as an .iso file. However, I have no idea on
> Earth what to do with it. Other than extract the contents, of course.
> 
> I used Package Manager to download Csound (5.13 ... oh, well). Package
> Manager told me Csound was installed, but Dash can't find it as an app,
> which means that I have no idea how to run it. Possibly from the terminal,
> but Unity "cleverly" doesn't display the actual directory structure in its
> Windows-type file explorer (in particular, there's no Applications
> directory, nor anything resembling it), so I'll have to learn to use a few
> terminal commands to even find the Csound files.
> 
> I also downloaded the most recent Csound 5.16 tarball from SourceForge. What
> I now find is that the information Dave Phillips very kindly provided for my
> new book about how to compile Csound in Linux doesn't really tell me what to
> do. That discussion (on p. 26) begins, "Assuming all of the necessary build
> tools are installed...." And already I'm lost. While reading my own book,
> which is a chastening experience, I have to say. I should have gone through
> this learning process six months ago, shouldn't I?
> 
> To some extent I'm just whining. (Whining being one of my less attractive
> specialties.) I don't actually NEED Linux at all, much less Csound running
> in Linux. But I'm fairly curious about how the whole experience plays out. I
> had a look around the Web for Ubuntu documentation, and found nothing
> resembling a clear discussion of anything. I'm starting to wonder if the
> Linux version of RTFM is AYSA (ask your system administrator).
> 
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/OT-Installing-Linux-in-a-Windows-7-Machine-tp5551998p5554237.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 

Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie

on 2012-03-10 at 23:43 Jim Aikin wrote:

>When I downloaded Ubuntu, what I got was the Unity interface. I can sense,
>dimly, that there might be reasons why it's not ideal, so now I've
>downloaded xubuntu, which comes as an .iso file. However, I have no idea
>on Earth what to do with it. Other than extract the contents, of course.

you'll have to boot from it, so you should either burn the image to a CD,
or put it on a usb flash drive. if you already have ubuntu, there's a
specific tool to make a bootable usb drive, but can also do it from
windows. i have an old 1GB drive that is ideal for this, much better than
burning cds!

i found these instructions on the web that seem to be fairly complete:

http://blog.sudobits.com/2011/04/23/how-to-install-ubuntu-11-04-from-usb-or-cd/


>I used Package Manager to download Csound (5.13 ... oh, well). 

yes, i warned you about it... later on you'll learn to add "unstable"
repositories, and you'll get 5.14... yay!

>Package Manager told me Csound was installed, but Dash can't find it as
>an app, which means that I have no idea how to run it. Possibly from the
>terminal,

yes.

>but Unity "cleverly" doesn't display the actual directory structure in its
>Windows-type file explorer

my advice would be to get rid of unity as soon as possible. either install
xubuntu, or try to find out if you can choose a different "desktop". most
probably you can install xfce on top of your ubuntu, but since it is a new
installation, perhaps it's cleaner to start again directly form xubuntu.


>(in particular, there's no Applications directory, nor anything
>resembling it), so I'll have to learn to use a few terminal commands to
>even find the Csound files.

type csound on the terminal and the command will be found. most probably
all the executable files are under /usr/bin. try entering "which
csound" (without the "). wherever it is, it'll be in the PATH (try "echo
$PATH" on the terminal. remember: the terminal is your friend...)

learning about the filesystem hierarchy is also illuminating:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard


>I also downloaded the most recent Csound 5.16 tarball from SourceForge.
>What I now find is that the information Dave Phillips very kindly
>provided for my new book about how to compile Csound in Linux doesn't
>really tell me what to do. That discussion (on p. 26) begins, "Assuming
>all of the necessary build tools are installed...." And already I'm lost.

linux distributions based on binary packages (virtually all distributions)
don't provide by default all the header files needed for compilation. those
usually are found in packages ending with -dev. i don't remember exactly
which packages you need for compiling csound, but i'm sure it's documented
somewhere. you'll get help on this.


>I don't actually NEED Linux at all, much less Csound running in Linux.
>But I'm fairly curious about how the whole experience plays out.

the experience can be very interesting... provided you get rid of unity
(did i mention that already?) and learn how to use the command line and
the basic unix tools. that's *my* idea of having fun with a computer!


>I had a look around the Web for Ubuntu documentation, and found nothing
>resembling a clear discussion of anything.

it's funny, my experience is the opposite. i'm pretty sure ubuntu is the
distributions with more users, most of them linux newbies, and there are
plenty forums and blog discussing every virtually problem you might
encounter using ubuntu (well, perhaps not with csound...). the "answers"
and "solutions" offered are not always 100% reliable, though...

good luck (and don't look back)!

lj

I like Unity, and use it as my default computer user interface.

I had to monkey with it to get it to behave, though. The first thing I
did was to install Synaptic, which makes it much easier to find and
install software packages for all sources.

The second thing is to create icons on the startup bar or whatever
it's called for the terminal,and  for Synpatic. And of course for
qtcreator and for CsoundQt and Emacs.

Then I customized the file browser to show lists and to include the
entire file system.

None of this was particularly hard to do. What I like about Unity is
that it gets out of the way and leaves me with more screen real
estate.

I find, unfortunately, that I have go through something like these
steps on EVERY operating system I install these days.

Regards,
Mike

On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:23 AM, luis jure  wrote:
>
> on 2012-03-10 at 23:43 Jim Aikin wrote:
>
>>When I downloaded Ubuntu, what I got was the Unity interface. I can sense,
>>dimly, that there might be reasons why it's not ideal, so now I've
>>downloaded xubuntu, which comes as an .iso file. However, I have no idea
>>on Earth what to do with it. Other than extract the contents, of course.
>
> you'll have to boot from it, so you should either burn the image to a CD,
> or put it on a usb flash drive. if you already have ubuntu, there's a
> specific tool to make a bootable usb drive, but can also do it from
> windows. i have an old 1GB drive that is ideal for this, much better than
> burning cds!
>
> i found these instructions on the web that seem to be fairly complete:
>
> http://blog.sudobits.com/2011/04/23/how-to-install-ubuntu-11-04-from-usb-or-cd/
>
>
>>I used Package Manager to download Csound (5.13 ... oh, well).
>
> yes, i warned you about it... later on you'll learn to add "unstable"
> repositories, and you'll get 5.14... yay!
>
>>Package Manager told me Csound was installed, but Dash can't find it as
>>an app, which means that I have no idea how to run it. Possibly from the
>>terminal,
>
> yes.
>
>>but Unity "cleverly" doesn't display the actual directory structure in its
>>Windows-type file explorer
>
> my advice would be to get rid of unity as soon as possible. either install
> xubuntu, or try to find out if you can choose a different "desktop". most
> probably you can install xfce on top of your ubuntu, but since it is a new
> installation, perhaps it's cleaner to start again directly form xubuntu.
>
>
>>(in particular, there's no Applications directory, nor anything
>>resembling it), so I'll have to learn to use a few terminal commands to
>>even find the Csound files.
>
> type csound on the terminal and the command will be found. most probably
> all the executable files are under /usr/bin. try entering "which
> csound" (without the "). wherever it is, it'll be in the PATH (try "echo
> $PATH" on the terminal. remember: the terminal is your friend...)
>
> learning about the filesystem hierarchy is also illuminating:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
>
>
>>I also downloaded the most recent Csound 5.16 tarball from SourceForge.
>>What I now find is that the information Dave Phillips very kindly
>>provided for my new book about how to compile Csound in Linux doesn't
>>really tell me what to do. That discussion (on p. 26) begins, "Assuming
>>all of the necessary build tools are installed...." And already I'm lost.
>
> linux distributions based on binary packages (virtually all distributions)
> don't provide by default all the header files needed for compilation. those
> usually are found in packages ending with -dev. i don't remember exactly
> which packages you need for compiling csound, but i'm sure it's documented
> somewhere. you'll get help on this.
>
>
>>I don't actually NEED Linux at all, much less Csound running in Linux.
>>But I'm fairly curious about how the whole experience plays out.
>
> the experience can be very interesting... provided you get rid of unity
> (did i mention that already?) and learn how to use the command line and
> the basic unix tools. that's *my* idea of having fun with a computer!
>
>
>>I had a look around the Web for Ubuntu documentation, and found nothing
>>resembling a clear discussion of anything.
>
> it's funny, my experience is the opposite. i'm pretty sure ubuntu is the
> distributions with more users, most of them linux newbies, and there are
> plenty forums and blog discussing every virtually problem you might
> encounter using ubuntu (well, perhaps not with csound...). the "answers"
> and "solutions" offered are not always 100% reliable, though...
>
> good luck (and don't look back)!
>
> lj
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

On 03/11/2012 03:43 AM, Jim Aikin wrote:

> ... I also downloaded the most recent Csound 5.16 tarball from 
> SourceForge. What I now find is that the information Dave Phillips 
> very kindly provided for my new book about how to compile Csound in 
> Linux doesn't really tell me what to do. That discussion (on p. 26) 
> begins, "Assuming all of the necessary build tools are installed...." 
> And already I'm lost. While reading my own book, which is a chastening 
> experience, I have to say.

Hi Jim,

The information is there, just not in the best order (my fault, sorry 
about that). You want to start with the instructions on p.27 for 
acquiring the essential tools required for building software for Linux:

     sudo apt-get build-essential

Then you can use apt-get to retrieve Csound's dependencies:

     sudo apt-get build-dep csound

Now you can go to your Csound source directory and run the scons 
commands on p.26.

I hope that helps. Btw, I haven't built the most recent versions of 
Csound, I'm not sure what - if anything - has changed wrt the Linux 
build process.

Also btw, I'll be at LAC. :)

Best,

dp











> I should have gone through this learning process six months ago, 
> shouldn't I? To some extent I'm just whining. (Whining being one of my 
> less attractive specialties.) I don't actually NEED Linux at all, much 
> less Csound running in Linux. But I'm fairly curious about how the 
> whole experience plays out. I had a look around the Web for Ubuntu 
> documentation, and found nothing resembling a clear discussion of 
> anything. I'm starting to wonder if the Linux version of RTFM is AYSA 
> (ask your system administrator). -- View this message in context: 
> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/OT-Installing-Linux-in-a-Windows-7-Machine-tp5551998p5554237.html 
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker 
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, 
> send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" 

This is so nice that you all will be at LAC! Very much looking forward to seeing you there!

Sorry for intruding, but what is this document that Jim and dp refer to?

Panos



On Mar 11, 2012, at 5:01 PM, Dave Phillips wrote:

> On 03/11/2012 03:43 AM, Jim Aikin wrote:
> 
>> ... I also downloaded the most recent Csound 5.16 tarball from SourceForge. What I now find is that the information Dave Phillips very kindly provided for my new book about how to compile Csound in Linux doesn't really tell me what to do. That discussion (on p. 26) begins, "Assuming all of the necessary build tools are installed...." And already I'm lost. While reading my own book, which is a chastening experience, I have to say.
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> The information is there, just not in the best order (my fault, sorry about that). You want to start with the instructions on p.27 for acquiring the essential tools required for building software for Linux:
> 
>    sudo apt-get build-essential
> 
> Then you can use apt-get to retrieve Csound's dependencies:
> 
>    sudo apt-get build-dep csound
> 
> Now you can go to your Csound source directory and run the scons commands on p.26.
> 
> I hope that helps. Btw, I haven't built the most recent versions of Csound, I'm not sure what - if anything - has changed wrt the Linux build process.
> 
> Also btw, I'll be at LAC. :)
> 
> Best,
> 
> dp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> I should have gone through this learning process six months ago, shouldn't I? To some extent I'm just whining. (Whining being one of my less attractive specialties.) I don't actually NEED Linux at all, much less Csound running in Linux. But I'm fairly curious about how the whole experience plays out. I had a look around the Web for Ubuntu documentation, and found nothing resembling a clear discussion of anything. I'm starting to wonder if the Linux version of RTFM is AYSA (ask your system administrator). -- View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/OT-Installing-Linux-in-a-Windows-7-Machine-tp5551998p5554237.html Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" 
> 
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 

On 03/11/2012 01:48 PM, Panos Katergiathis wrote:
> Sorry for intruding, but what is this document that Jim and dp refer to?
>
>

Hi Panos,

Jim's excellent book Csound Power, it's listed on Amazon at :

     
http://www.amazon.com/Csound-Power-Jim-Aikin/dp/1435460049/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331488411&sr=1-1

Best,

dp

Oh.. i have the book....
I was just imagining that there were instructions for installing on Ubuntu in another document?
Are there?

Panos




On Mar 11, 2012, at 7:55 PM, Dave Phillips wrote:

> On 03/11/2012 01:48 PM, Panos Katergiathis wrote:
>> Sorry for intruding, but what is this document that Jim and dp refer to?
>> 
>> 
> 
> Hi Panos,
> 
> Jim's excellent book Csound Power, it's listed on Amazon at :
> 
>    http://www.amazon.com/Csound-Power-Jim-Aikin/dp/1435460049/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331488411&sr=1-1
> 
> Best,
> 
> dp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>