In my travels on the websphere, I sometimes come across weird stuff, but look at this course here, taught to doctoral students:

http://digital.music.cornell.edu/cemc/music6420

They are still using score11 in the syllabus! The beginning tutorial is still Barry's.  
I thought this must be an old website, but it does not look like it. 

Surely we need to go on an evangelization campaign, not to spread the word to new users, but to reach csound users still rooted in 91.

Regards

Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie

On 03/04/2012 07:55 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> http://digital.music.cornell.edu/cemc/music6420
> They are still using score11 in the syllabus! The beginning tutorial is still Barry's.
> I thought this must be an old website, but it does not look like it.

you are surprised that an academic institution is mired in the past, 
refusing to move beyond "tradition"?

you cannot be- you are attached to one yourself.

but, i wholeheartedly agree that there are far better tools and 
materials freely available to use in an electronic music curriculum 
[like csound].

would a "wall of shame" help ... ?

-- 
http://or8.net/~johns "yeah yeah yeah" -beatles

yes, I'm quite surprised. We try to keep up with the latest developments, not only in Csound, but also with other languages (pd, SC3), which we teach here. I don't see that being in an academic institution should necessarily mean we are mired in the past. I would not have expected an institution with the status of the University in question to be so far behind the state-of-art.

Victor
On 5 Mar 2012, at 14:34, john saylor wrote:

> On 03/04/2012 07:55 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> http://digital.music.cornell.edu/cemc/music6420
>> They are still using score11 in the syllabus! The beginning tutorial is still Barry's.
>> I thought this must be an old website, but it does not look like it.
> 
> you are surprised that an academic institution is mired in the past, refusing to move beyond "tradition"?
> 
> you cannot be- you are attached to one yourself.
> 
> but, i wholeheartedly agree that there are far better tools and materials freely available to use in an electronic music curriculum [like csound].
> 
> would a "wall of shame" help ... ?
> 
> -- 
> http://or8.net/~johns "yeah yeah yeah" -beatles
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 

Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie

on 2012-03-05 at 09:34 john saylor wrote:

>you are surprised that an academic institution is mired in the past, 
>refusing to move beyond "tradition"?

i'm not sure your pessimistic view of academic institutions is wholly
justified. i think, on the contrary, that universities and academic
institutions in general should be places of research and advance in
knowledge. and they very often are. otherwise, there would be no csound to
speak of.

it's ironic that you say that in a csound mailing list, being that the
whole lineage of Music-N languages was developed mostly in academic
institutions. places like stanford, mit, san diego, princeton, columbia,
to name just the few that i can recall off the top of my head.

so i guess that academic institutions are what people attached to them
make them be... (sorry, i got lost in the middle of the sentence...)

On 03/05/2012 10:39 AM, luis jure wrote:
> i'm not sure your pessimistic view of academic institutions is wholly
> justified.

i didn't mean to imply that all academic institutions are backward 
looking, but my experience has been that most are.

i guess cornell is teaching score11. i am not making that up.

-- 
http://or8.net/~johns "yeah yeah yeah" -beatles

On 05/03/2012 06:26, Deepak wrote:
> Hi Everyone....
>
> I had found the following link from eastman school's website, a couple
> of months back...Seems like the website is from the 90's, but I am not
> too sure if they are still going about teaching Csound the same way now,
> as they did in the 90's...
>
> http://ecmc.rochester.edu/ecmc/docs/allan.cs/chapter1.html#
>
> It provided a good introduction to Csound, but seems like they are also
> using score11 in the syllabus...
>

I seem to recall that we never saw an open-source distribution of 
Score11. Is it actually available? Otherwise I am inclined to say "lucky 
them".

Any attempt to add bar/beat notation to the current score language is 
almost by definition bound to fail, as whatever is done will be found to 
have some limitation a week later. Far better IMO to have or develop an 
external preprocessor, perhaps not unlike score11, which generates a 
Csound score. And whatever happened to "SCOT"? That did just about 
exactly what people are asking for.

Richard Dobson

> And whatever happened to "SCOT"?.

Yes! "SCOT" was a very interesting language close to traditional music notation
and orchestral dynamics and more.
--Sal Sofia 
______________________________________
From: Richard Dobson [richarddobson@blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 11:46 AM
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [Csnd] [OT] csound evangelization much needed, but for reasons

On 05/03/2012 06:26, Deepak wrote:
> Hi Everyone....
>
> I had found the following link from eastman school's website, a couple
> of months back...Seems like the website is from the 90's, but I am not
> too sure if they are still going about teaching Csound the same way now,
> as they did in the 90's...
>
> http://ecmc.rochester.edu/ecmc/docs/allan.cs/chapter1.html#
>
> It provided a good introduction to Csound, but seems like they are also
> using score11 in the syllabus...
>

I seem to recall that we never saw an open-source distribution of
Score11. Is it actually available? Otherwise I am inclined to say "lucky
them".

Any attempt to add bar/beat notation to the current score language is
almost by definition bound to fail, as whatever is done will be found to
have some limitation a week later. Far better IMO to have or develop an
external preprocessor, perhaps not unlike score11, which generates a
Csound score. And whatever happened to "SCOT"? That did just about
exactly what people are asking for.

Richard Dobson




Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Answer to my own question - the sources should still be there, in 
util1/scot; just a couple of C files, no special requirements to build.

So that could be as good a starting point as any for a revamped version. 
It writes a plain .sco file; perhaps a refinement would be for it to 
insert the score text into a supplied .csd file.

Richard Dobson




On 05/03/2012 18:30, Sal G Sofia wrote:
>> And whatever happened to "SCOT"?.
>
> Yes! "SCOT" was a very interesting language close to traditional music notation
> and orchestral dynamics and more.

If it wrote to stdout then it would fit the current .csd form


> Answer to my own question - the sources should still be there, in
> util1/scot; just a couple of C files, no special requirements to build.
>
> So that could be as good a starting point as any for a revamped version.
> It writes a plain .sco file; perhaps a refinement would be for it to
> insert the score text into a supplied .csd file.
>
> Richard Dobson

As supplied (scot_main.c)  it can read from stdin but writes to a named 
outfile. Could easily be changed though.

Richard Dobson


On 05/03/2012 19:32, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
> If it wrote to stdout then it would fit the current .csd form
>
>
>> Answer to my own question - the sources should still be there, in
>> util1/scot; just a couple of C files, no special requirements to build.
>>
>> So that could be as good a starting point as any for a revamped version.
>> It writes a plain .sco file; perhaps a refinement would be for it to
>> insert the score text into a supplied .csd file.
>>
>> Richard Dobson
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>

I see it as a noble goal to learn the tools of the past with the
thoughts of the present in mind. Perhaps teaching what some might see
as an anachronism has some utility in teaching students a broader
sensibility than what would otherwise be possible using only modern
software.

Otherwise, why learn traditional harmony and counterpoint in music?
Why not just look to jazz and 20th century composition... In a way I
think the whole idea of teaching an "antique" programming language
relates to that venerable sensibility.

A very interesting finding, thanks for sharing.


David

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> yes, I'm quite surprised. We try to keep up with the latest developments, not only in Csound, but also with other languages (pd, SC3), which we teach here. I don't see that being in an academic institution should necessarily mean we are mired in the past. I would not have expected an institution with the status of the University in question to be so far behind the state-of-art.
>
> Victor
> On 5 Mar 2012, at 14:34, john saylor wrote:
>
>> On 03/04/2012 07:55 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>> http://digital.music.cornell.edu/cemc/music6420
>>> They are still using score11 in the syllabus! The beginning tutorial is still Barry's.
>>> I thought this must be an old website, but it does not look like it.
>>
>> you are surprised that an academic institution is mired in the past, refusing to move beyond "tradition"?
>>
>> you cannot be- you are attached to one yourself.
>>
>> but, i wholeheartedly agree that there are far better tools and materials freely available to use in an electronic music curriculum [like csound].
>>
>> would a "wall of shame" help ... ?
>>
>> --
>> http://or8.net/~johns "yeah yeah yeah" -beatles
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> Dept. of Music
> NUI Maynooth Ireland
> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>

On 03/06/2012 02:41 AM, Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
> Score11 was really wonderful - and inspired in many ways by Smith's 
> Score10.  It was never open source.

Btw, IIRC nGen is also not open-source. Unless Michel has changed its 
status ?

Also: Didn't someone from this list get a version of Score11 made 
publicly available at one time ? Or am I just dreaming out loud ?

Best,

dp

On 03/05/2012 08:42 PM, peiman khosravi wrote:
> One can still use old tools to teach about sound, sound perception and
> music technology.

you can learn about sound in many ways.

i don't think students are particularly helped by learning these early 
synthesis packages when there have been [internet] generations of 
advancement in freely available alternatives.

-- 
http://or8.net/~johns "yeah yeah yeah" -beatles

completely OT, but for some reason, this thread made me remember umberto
eco's Il nuovo medioevo (i think the title in english was "the return of
the middle ages"). written in 1972, eco compared our times (well, those
times...) with the beginning of a new middle age. in this context,
universities and other academic institutions would be the equivalent of
medieval monasteries, and academics like the monks that tried to preserve
classical knowledge, awaiting a renaissance... that's at least how i
remember it, i read this essay many years ago.

so i guess that the role of academic institutions is to keep and preserve,
as well as advance, knowledge.