hi marc -
what exactly was the problem with qutecsound's live event panel? on
which platform?
regards -
	joachim

Am 26.07.2011 19:40, schrieb marcedelsteinmd@aol.com:
> Csound List:
> 
> I am a student in Richard Boulanger's Csound class this summer.  As part
> of that experience, I have put together a number of compositions using
> csound, based on re-arrangements of well known songs, or my own note
> list pieces.  To do this, I have created instruments based on csound
> opcodes, plus developed a score that matches or creates original blends
> of melody and harmony, with an aggregation of tracks and timbres.  
> 
> To do this, I tried to use QuteCsound Live Events, but found that I
> could not manipulate the notes (numbers) and columns as I desired.
>  Therefore, I used Microsoft Excel, which I have a lot of experience
> with, to enter the data, use math formulas when appropriate, and then
> copy, cut and paste.  Although not ideal, and a bit cumbersome when
> modifiying the score (cutting and pasting between qutecsound and excel),
> it got the job done.  The score shortcut symbols such as "<" and "."
> help somewhat, but at times can make things more difficult as sometimes
> I wanted to know that value that these symbols were standing for on each
> line of the score.  Also, as qutecsound does not have line numbers
> included on the display, I added columns of line numbers on the right
> side of my score within comments, permitting me to see how the
> composition parts would align with the tempo/beat.  I also used
> TextWrangler to assist with the line number issue.
> 
> Do any of the more experience csound users have any suggestions on
> either how to better use Live Events, or other tools, in the
> compositional process?  Dr. B said that a new version of QuteCsound is
> coming out soon, so I wonder if the new version will have tools to
> assist the compositional process, similar to what I tried to do using Excel.
> 
> I am also taking Dr. B's Audio C-programming class this summer (I guess
> I'm a bit of a masochist :) ).  C-programming allows me to use of
> algorithm techniques, such as through "for" loops, to create scores
> similar to what I could do with Excel.  While a valuable alternative for
> some creative efforts, it doesn't accomplish my compositional goals in
> most cases.
> 
> I am really enjoying learning Csound, as well as following the exchanges
> on the Csound List, by the way.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Marc Edelstein


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>
> I am also taking Dr. B's Audio C-programming class this summer (I guess
> I'm a bit of a masochist :) ).  C-programming allows me to use of
> algorithm techniques, such as through "for" loops, to create scores
> similar to what I could do with Excel.  While a valuable alternative for
> some creative efforts, it doesn't accomplish my compositional goals in
> most cases.
>

I may be an outlier, but to me C is great for writing scores; get round
all the problems with < and >.  For me much easier than Excel, python,
java .....



> I am really enjoying learning Csound, as well as following the exchanges
> on the Csound List, by the way.
>
>

I am sure storms remain on the horizon......  Keep listening; could be
amusing!

==John ff



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Just a note regarding the manual, it is a bit out of date.  I've just
(mostly) converted the manual to mediawiki at
http://blue.kunstmusik.com/wiki .  I need to put in some updated
images then will be doing a walkthrough to update the manual.  Until
that is complete, questions regarding blue can be directed to the blue
mailing list or to me directly.

Thanks!
steven

On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Michael Bechard  wrote:
> I'm one of the "blue" evangelists on this list, so I'll chime in and
> proselytize. blue can solve the following problems you cited:
> - note manipulation: Notes can be arranged in blue on a grpahic timeline via
> things called SoundObjects. A SoundObject is a generalization of a musical
> event in a timeline, and can be a collection of manually-typed i-statements,
> notes arranged on a graphic piano roll, note events triggered via a graphic
> drum-grid type display, or even a collection of other, embedded
> SoundObjects, all arranged in a timeline local to the parent SoundObject.
> SoundObjects themselves can be stretched, shrunk, set to loop, and further
> manipulated in complex ways via objects called NoteProcessors which are
> applied to SoundObjects, and can manipulated any field in the contained
> i-statements in practically any manner (i.e. incrementing the pitch field up
> with each note played in the SoundObject). It's a very powerful, flexible
> composition paradigm.
> - note alignment with the tempo: in blue, one can either rely on a
> t-statement declared as one would normally in a csd file, or on a graphic
> representation of the tempo in the main view. This tempo can be manipulated
> like a drawn line, having the tempo decay or increase over a period of time,
> or jump abruptly at any given point. As the tempo increases or decreases,
> this is shown graphically in the time-view of blue, where individual
> hash-marks denote beats according to the current tempo. When placing
> SoundObjects in the time-line, you can have the sound objects lock to the
> beats as you drag them around. Also, when you loop a SoundObject, you can
> see where the loop point is and make sure it aligns with other sound objects
> and/or the beats in the tempo.
>
> - math formulas/algorithmic composition: one type of SoundObject can
> generate i-statements via Python or Java script (sorta Java, at any rate).
> You can point it at an existing, saved script on the harddrive, or write the
> script directly into the SoundObject. The notes generated from that script
> follow all the normal rules of a SoundObject, so within that object they can
> be dragged around the timeline, stretched, shrunk, looped, ...
>
> You should really check it out in more detail; there's so much more to it
> than what I've listed here. You'll wonder why people even bother with typing
> i-statements once you get the hang of it.
> This manual is kind of old, I believe, but it still accurately represents
> blue's flexibility and approach to composition:
> http://blue.kunstmusik.com/manual/html/index.html. I think most of the more
> recent changes to blue since that manual was made have been in regards to
> real-time integration with the CSound API.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
>
> ________________________________
> From: "marcedelsteinmd@aol.com" 
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Cc: rboulanger@berklee.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 12:40 PM
> Subject: [Csnd] Question about composing using csound
>
> Csound List:
>
> I am a student in Richard Boulanger's Csound class this summer.  As part of
> that experience, I have put together a number of compositions using csound,
> based on re-arrangements of well known songs, or my own note list pieces.
>  To do this, I have created instruments based on csound opcodes, plus
> developed a score that matches or creates original blends of melody and
> harmony, with an aggregation of tracks and timbres.
> To do this, I tried to use QuteCsound Live Events, but found that I could
> not manipulate the notes (numbers) and columns as I desired.  Therefore, I
> used Microsoft Excel, which I have a lot of experience with, to enter the
> data, use math formulas when appropriate, and then copy, cut and paste.
>  Although not ideal, and a bit cumbersome when modifiying the score (cutting
> and pasting between qutecsound and excel), it got the job done.  The score
> shortcut symbols such as "<" and "." help somewhat, but at times can make
> things more difficult as sometimes I wanted to know that value that these
> symbols were standing for on each line of the score.  Also, as qutecsound
> does not have line numbers included on the display, I added columns of line
> numbers on the right side of my score within comments, permitting me to see
> how the composition parts would align with the tempo/beat.  I also used
> TextWrangler to assist with the line number issue.
> Do any of the more experience csound users have any suggestions on either
> how to better use Live Events, or other tools, in the compositional process?
>  Dr. B said that a new version of QuteCsound is coming out soon, so I wonder
> if the new version will have tools to assist the compositional process,
> similar to what I tried to do using Excel.
> I am also taking Dr. B's Audio C-programming class this summer (I guess I'm
> a bit of a masochist :) ).  C-programming allows me to use of algorithm
> techniques, such as through "for" loops, to create scores similar to what I
> could do with Excel.  While a valuable alternative for some creative
> efforts, it doesn't accomplish my compositional goals in most cases.
> I am really enjoying learning Csound, as well as following the exchanges on
> the Csound List, by the way.
> Thanks.
> Marc Edelstein
>
>


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            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
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+1 to Michael's comments. I use blue a lot as well, especially the Piano
Roll (which works very well with microtonal scales, including ones
created using Scala) and the Python Object (in which I write Python code
to generate score statements; often, I'll define a set of functions in
one object, and then call that function in several other objects that
are on the timeline).

Similar to the graphical tempo line that Michael mentions, you can also
draw other segmented lines that can be used to automate any parameters
in your instruments (via gk... variables).

But my single favorite feature is the fact that I can just move,
stretch, or shrink any object on the timeline and it will simply rescale
it in regards to time (of course, you can set objects to use absolute
time as well).

- Dave

On 7/26/2011 2:24 PM, Michael Bechard wrote:
> I'm one of the "blue" evangelists on this list, so I'll chime in and
> proselytize. blue can solve the following problems you cited:
> 
> - note manipulation: Notes can be arranged in blue on a grpahic timeline
> via things called SoundObjects. A SoundObject is a generalization of a
> musical event in a timeline, and can be a collection of manually-typed
> i-statements, notes arranged on a graphic piano roll, note events
> triggered via a graphic drum-grid type display, or even a collection of
> other, embedded SoundObjects, all arranged in a timeline local to the
> parent SoundObject. SoundObjects themselves can be stretched, shrunk,
> set to loop, and further manipulated in complex ways via objects called
> NoteProcessors which are applied to SoundObjects, and can manipulated
> any field in the contained i-statements in practically any manner (i.e.
> incrementing the pitch field up with each note played in the
> SoundObject). It's a very powerful, flexible composition paradigm.
> 
> - note alignment with the tempo: in blue, one can either rely on a
> t-statement declared as one would normally in a csd file, or on a
> graphic representation of the tempo in the main view. This tempo can be
> manipulated like a drawn line, having the tempo decay or increase over a
> period of time, or jump abruptly at any given point. As the tempo
> increases or decreases, this is shown graphically in the time-view of
> blue, where individual hash-marks denote beats according to the current
> tempo. When placing SoundObjects in the time-line, you can have the
> sound objects lock to the beats as you drag them around. Also, when you
> loop a SoundObject, you can see where the loop point is and make sure it
> aligns with other sound objects and/or the beats in the tempo.
> 
> - math formulas/algorithmic composition: one type of SoundObject can
> generate i-statements via Python or Java script (sorta Java, at any
> rate). You can point it at an existing, saved script on the harddrive,
> or write the script directly into the SoundObject. The notes generated
> from that script follow all the normal rules of a SoundObject, so within
> that object they can be dragged around the timeline, stretched, shrunk,
> looped, ...
> 
> You should really check it out in more detail; there's so much more to
> it than what I've listed here. You'll wonder why people even bother with
> typing i-statements once you get the hang of it.
> 
> This manual is kind of old, I believe, but it still accurately
> represents blue's flexibility and approach to composition:
> http://blue.kunstmusik.com/manual/html/index.html. I think most of the
> more recent changes to blue since that manual was made have been in
> regards to real-time integration with the CSound API.
> 
> Thanks,
> Michael
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "marcedelsteinmd@aol.com" 
> *To:* csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> *Cc:* rboulanger@berklee.edu
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 26, 2011 12:40 PM
> *Subject:* [Csnd] Question about composing using csound
> 
> Csound List:
> 
> I am a student in Richard Boulanger's Csound class this summer.  As part
> of that experience, I have put together a number of compositions using
> csound, based on re-arrangements of well known songs, or my own note
> list pieces.  To do this, I have created instruments based on csound
> opcodes, plus developed a score that matches or creates original blends
> of melody and harmony, with an aggregation of tracks and timbres.  
> 
> To do this, I tried to use QuteCsound Live Events, but found that I
> could not manipulate the notes (numbers) and columns as I desired.
>  Therefore, I used Microsoft Excel, which I have a lot of experience
> with, to enter the data, use math formulas when appropriate, and then
> copy, cut and paste.  Although not ideal, and a bit cumbersome when
> modifiying the score (cutting and pasting between qutecsound and excel),
> it got the job done.  The score shortcut symbols such as "<" and "."
> help somewhat, but at times can make things more difficult as sometimes
> I wanted to know that value that these symbols were standing for on each
> line of the score.  Also, as qutecsound does not have line numbers
> included on the display, I added columns of line numbers on the right
> side of my score within comments, permitting me to see how the
> composition parts would align with the tempo/beat.  I also used
> TextWrangler to assist with the line number issue.
> 
> Do any of the more experience csound users have any suggestions on
> either how to better use Live Events, or other tools, in the
> compositional process?  Dr. B said that a new version of QuteCsound is
> coming out soon, so I wonder if the new version will have tools to
> assist the compositional process, similar to what I tried to do using Excel.
> 
> I am also taking Dr. B's Audio C-programming class this summer (I guess
> I'm a bit of a masochist :) ).  C-programming allows me to use of
> algorithm techniques, such as through "for" loops, to create scores
> similar to what I could do with Excel.  While a valuable alternative for
> some creative efforts, it doesn't accomplish my compositional goals in
> most cases.
> 
> I am really enjoying learning Csound, as well as following the exchanges
> on the Csound List, by the way.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Marc Edelstein
> 
> 


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hi marc -

there are three video tutorials by andrés; they are listed here:
http://en.flossmanuals.net/csound/ch078_links/

andrés is very busy at the moment, so i am sure that any help to improve
documentation of the live event sheet is very much welcome and appreciated.

best -

	joachim


Am 27.07.2011 02:37, schrieb marcedelsteinmd@aol.com:
> Joachim:
> 
> Thank you for responding so promptly.
> 
> I use a MacBookPro with Snow Leopard 10.6.8.  I have version 0.6.1 of
> quteCsound.
> 
> I was not having a particular problem with Live Event per se.  I was
> able to use Live Events to some extent.   I was unable to find much in
> the way of instructions on the use of Live Events so had to use trial
> and error to learn the how to use the tool, and to perform the data
> manipulation.  At some point it was easier to use Excel, which I am very
> familiar with, than try to work with Live Events. Any guidance on how
> best to take advantage of Live Events, or other quteCsound tools, is
> most appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Marc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joachim heintz 
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Sent: Tue, Jul 26, 2011 1:48 pm
> Subject: Re: [Csnd] Question about composing using csound
> 
> hi marc -
> what exactly was the problem with qutecsound's live event panel? on
> which platform?
> regards -
>     joachim
> 
> Am 26.07.2011 19:40, schrieb marcedelsteinmd@aol.com :
>> Csound List:
>> 
>> I am a student in Richard Boulanger's Csound class this summer.  As part
>> of that experience, I have put together a number of compositions using
>> csound, based on re-arrangements of well known songs, or my own note
>> list pieces.  To do this, I have created instruments based on csound
>> opcodes, plus developed a score that matches or creates original blends
>> of melody and harmony, with an aggregation of tracks and timbres.  
>> 
>> To do this, I tried to use QuteCsound Live Events, but found that I
>> could not manipulate the notes (numbers) and columns as I desired.
>>  Therefore, I used Microsoft Excel, which I have a lot of experience
>> with, to enter the data, use math formulas when appropriate, and then
>> copy, cut and paste.  Although not ideal, and a bit cumbersome when
>> modifiying the score (cutting and pasting between qutecsound and excel),
>> it got the job done.  The score shortcut symbols such as "<" and "."
>> help somewhat, but at times can make things more difficult as sometimes
>> I wanted to know that value that these symbols were standing for on each
>> line of the score.  Also, as qutecsound does not have line numbers
>> included on the display, I added columns of line numbers on the right
>> side of my score within comments, permitting me to see how the
>> composition parts would align with the tempo/beat.  I also used
>> TextWrangler to assist with the line number issue.
>> 
>> Do any of the more experience csound users have any suggestions on
>> either how to better use Live Events, or other tools, in the
>> compositional process?  Dr. B said that a new version of QuteCsound is
>> coming out soon, so I wonder if the new version will have tools to
>> assist the compositional process, similar to what I tried to do using Excel.
>> 
>> I am also taking Dr. B's Audio C-programming class this summer (I guess
>> I'm a bit of a masochist :) ).  C-programming allows me to use of
>> algorithm techniques, such as through "for" loops, to create scores
>> similar to what I could do with Excel.  While a valuable alternative for
>> some creative efforts, it doesn't accomplish my compositional goals in
>> most cases.
>> 
>> I am really enjoying learning Csound, as well as following the exchanges
>> on the Csound List, by the way.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Marc Edelstein
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk  with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 


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