Hi,

i am looking at the manual, working my way down from the csd examples from A
to Z. It is interesting to have a look at all the opcodes, there are some
nice surprises. 
Also i found that some examples in the manual are not working out-of-the-box
and would like to see this changed. This is not meant to offend anyone but i
would like to help to improve the manual further. Another thing i can do is
test these improvements of the manual.

I have 2 guidelines:
- all examples work out-of-the-box (when the opcode permits)
- all examples have sr = 44100 (my soundcard M-Audio does not accept 22050
anymore)

i'm testing with XP, csound5.11, double precision

Who do i contact to get improvements done in the manual?
 
These are my findings from the letters A - B - C:
A
- active
example no.3 no nchnls=1, so error
- hetro / adsyn 
makes noise, does not work
- arson
example sr=22050 instead of 44100, so won't play
- adsynt <---> adsynth2 ??? will look into this later
- alwayson
no example, when to use?
- aresonk
no example, when to use in contrat with areson?
- atonek
no example, when to use in contrat with atone?
- atonex
no example, when to use?
B
- binit
an example is there, but does not work out-of-the-box
- bitshift and bitwise 
no pages in manual
- butterbp, butterbr, butterhp, butterlp
sr=22050, must be 44100
C
- ceil
no example
- chanctrl
no example
- chebychevpoly
missing nchnls=1
- the channel opcodes have no out-of-th-box examples but that is logic
- clfilt
old sr of 22050 instead of 44100
- compress
no out-of-the-box example
- connect
no example
- cpspch
my output = 439.963 and not 440


and will go on like this untill i have finished the manual if this
information is of interest,
I would like some feedback on this.
Menno

Hi Menno,

Thanks very much. This is very useful. The best way to ensure that
your work is incorporated is minimize the work involved.

Ideally, ask John for cvs access, and just commit the files yourself.
If you feel this is over your head, the next best thing is to post the
examples in a zip file, either here or to avoid noise directly in the
dev list.
If you do this, it's very easy for me (or anyone else with cvs access)
to add them.

Cheers,
Andrés


On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 7:59 PM, menno  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> i am looking at the manual, working my way down from the csd examples from A
> to Z. It is interesting to have a look at all the opcodes, there are some
> nice surprises.
> Also i found that some examples in the manual are not working out-of-the-box
> and would like to see this changed. This is not meant to offend anyone but i
> would like to help to improve the manual further. Another thing i can do is
> test these improvements of the manual.
>
> I have 2 guidelines:
> - all examples work out-of-the-box (when the opcode permits)
> - all examples have sr = 44100 (my soundcard M-Audio does not accept 22050
> anymore)
>
> i'm testing with XP, csound5.11, double precision
>
> Who do i contact to get improvements done in the manual?
>
> These are my findings from the letters A - B - C:
> A
> - active
> example no.3 no nchnls=1, so error
> - hetro / adsyn
> makes noise, does not work
> - arson
> example sr=22050 instead of 44100, so won't play
> - adsynt <---> adsynth2 ??? will look into this later
> - alwayson
> no example, when to use?
> - aresonk
> no example, when to use in contrat with areson?
> - atonek
> no example, when to use in contrat with atone?
> - atonex
> no example, when to use?
> B
> - binit
> an example is there, but does not work out-of-the-box
> - bitshift and bitwise
> no pages in manual
> - butterbp, butterbr, butterhp, butterlp
> sr=22050, must be 44100
> C
> - ceil
> no example
> - chanctrl
> no example
> - chebychevpoly
> missing nchnls=1
> - the channel opcodes have no out-of-th-box examples but that is logic
> - clfilt
> old sr of 22050 instead of 44100
> - compress
> no out-of-the-box example
> - connect
> no example
> - cpspch
> my output = 439.963 and not 440
>
>
> and will go on like this untill i have finished the manual if this
> information is of interest,
> I would like some feedback on this.
> Menno
> --
> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/checking-the-manual-A-C-tp28270643p28270643.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



-- 


Andrés


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Hi Andrés

thanks for your response. I will modify and create examples that are wrong,
not complete or non-existant while i am going through the manual. I don't
mind if it takes all year, Csound will stay for a while and so will i.
But there are several opcodes that do not have an example and i don't know
what their purpose is. They are black boxes. The creator of this particular
opcode has put in time and effort to give this opcode a reason to live, but
because there is no working example that tells me that opcode is there with
a reason, the opcode and its purpose dies. A waste of time and energy, i
think. What i'm saying is that i will need help when encountering such
opcodes.
Some examples of this are "arosenk" and "atonek"; there is no example that
tells me right away the reason for its existance. "atone" is clear, i put in
a sample and it hi-pass-filters that sample. But when should i need a k-rate
version of this? I would like to know and i think beginners of Csound will
be helped too with this kind of transparancy.

I will create working examples (starting with A -C that i have covered so
far) and will zipp it and send it to you. Will you add them to cvs?
Then i will create a list of opcodes that i do not know how to deal with. I
will try to get in touch with their creators and post my findings.
Can i stay in touch with you off-list?

bye,
Menno




Andres Cabrera wrote:
> 
> Hi Menno,
> 
> Thanks very much. This is very useful. The best way to ensure that
> your work is incorporated is minimize the work involved.
> 
> Ideally, ask John for cvs access, and just commit the files yourself.
> If you feel this is over your head, the next best thing is to post the
> examples in a zip file, either here or to avoid noise directly in the
> dev list.
> If you do this, it's very easy for me (or anyone else with cvs access)
> to add them.
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/checking-the-manual-A-C-tp28270643p28280975.html
Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



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These are the results of looking into the examples A-C:
- a zipped file with examples that work out-of-the-box over here:
  http://old.nabble.com/file/p28282393/improved%2Bexamples.zip
improved+examples.zip 
- problems with opcodes that have bugs or examples for opcodes that i can
not create because i do not know what their purposes are:


A

- hetro / adsyn 
makes noise, does not work in XP, 5.11, double precision. Bug?

- adsynt <---> adsynth2
the example of adsynt works fine, but replacing adsynt by adsynt2 does not
pruduce the desired result, Bug? 

- alwayson
no example, so when to use?

- aresonk
no example, so when to use?

- atonek
no example, so when to use?

- atonex
opcode is not affected by changing the inumlayer. Sounds always the same, no
matter what value Bug?


B

- bitshift and bitwise 
there are csd's in the examplefolder, but they have no pages in manual



C

- ceil
no example, and i don't know what to do with it

- the channel opcodes have no out-of-the-box examples but that is logic

- connect
no example, so when to use?

- cpspch
my output = 439.963 and not 440. This should be changed in the manual


Maybe it is a good idea to try to find answers on the dev- list and dig
further there?
Menno

Hi menno -

i think what you are doing there is really important. Thanks.
I can contribute an example for ceil (you can use the similar later  
for floor, if you like):



-nm0


instr 1
inum = p4
iceil = ceil(inum)
print iceil
endin


i 1 0 0 1
i . . . 0.999999
i . . . 0.000001
i . . . 0
i . . . -0.0000001
i . . . -0.9999999
i . . . -1
e



Best -

	joachim


Am 18.04.2010 um 15:57 schrieb menno:

>
> These are the results of looking into the examples A-C:
> - a zipped file with examples that work out-of-the-box over here:
>  http://old.nabble.com/file/p28282393/improved%2Bexamples.zip
> improved+examples.zip
> - problems with opcodes that have bugs or examples for opcodes that  
> i can
> not create because i do not know what their purposes are:
>
>
> A
>
> - hetro / adsyn
> makes noise, does not work in XP, 5.11, double precision. Bug?
>
> - adsynt <---> adsynth2
> the example of adsynt works fine, but replacing adsynt by adsynt2  
> does not
> pruduce the desired result, Bug?
>
> - alwayson
> no example, so when to use?
>
> - aresonk
> no example, so when to use?
>
> - atonek
> no example, so when to use?
>
> - atonex
> opcode is not affected by changing the inumlayer. Sounds always the  
> same, no
> matter what value Bug?
>
>
> B
>
> - bitshift and bitwise
> there are csd's in the examplefolder, but they have no pages in manual
>
>
>
> C
>
> - ceil
> no example, and i don't know what to do with it
>
> - the channel opcodes have no out-of-the-box examples but that is  
> logic
>
> - connect
> no example, so when to use?
>
> - cpspch
> my output = 439.963 and not 440. This should be changed in the manual
>
>
> Maybe it is a good idea to try to find answers on the dev- list and  
> dig
> further there?
> Menno
> -- 
> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/checking-the-manual-A-C-tp28270643p28282393.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



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Thanks Joachim for your example, great that you find this is important too.
I tried it out and immediately i understand what "ceil" does. And it proves
the importance of simple, good examples. This will be packed in a new zip
file where the opcodes
that-have-problems-at-the-moment-but-will-be-solved-in-the-near-future are
gathered.

Menno 


joachim heintz wrote:
> 
> Hi menno -
> 
> i think what you are doing there is really important. Thanks.
> I can contribute an example for ceil (you can use the similar later  
> for floor, if you like):
> 
> 
> 
> -nm0
> 
> 
> instr 1
> inum = p4
> iceil = ceil(inum)
> print iceil
> endin
> 
> 
> i 1 0 0 1
> i . . . 0.999999
> i . . . 0.000001
> i . . . 0
> i . . . -0.0000001
> i . . . -0.9999999
> i . . . -1
> e
> 
> 
> 
> Best -
> 
> 	joachim
> 
> 
> Am 18.04.2010 um 15:57 schrieb menno:
> 
>>
>> These are the results of looking into the examples A-C:
>> - a zipped file with examples that work out-of-the-box over here:
>>  http://old.nabble.com/file/p28282393/improved%2Bexamples.zip
>> improved+examples.zip
>> - problems with opcodes that have bugs or examples for opcodes that  
>> i can
>> not create because i do not know what their purposes are:
>>
>>
>> A
>>
>> - hetro / adsyn
>> makes noise, does not work in XP, 5.11, double precision. Bug?
>>
>> - adsynt <---> adsynth2
>> the example of adsynt works fine, but replacing adsynt by adsynt2  
>> does not
>> pruduce the desired result, Bug?
>>
>> - alwayson
>> no example, so when to use?
>>
>> - aresonk
>> no example, so when to use?
>>
>> - atonek
>> no example, so when to use?
>>
>> - atonex
>> opcode is not affected by changing the inumlayer. Sounds always the  
>> same, no
>> matter what value Bug?
>>
>>
>> B
>>
>> - bitshift and bitwise
>> there are csd's in the examplefolder, but they have no pages in manual
>>
>>
>>
>> C
>>
>> - ceil
>> no example, and i don't know what to do with it
>>
>> - the channel opcodes have no out-of-the-box examples but that is  
>> logic
>>
>> - connect
>> no example, so when to use?
>>
>> - cpspch
>> my output = 439.963 and not 440. This should be changed in the manual
>>
>>
>> Maybe it is a good idea to try to find answers on the dev- list and  
>> dig
>> further there?
>> Menno
>> -- 
>> View this message in context:
>> http://old.nabble.com/checking-the-manual-A-C-tp28270643p28282393.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
> 
> 
> 

replying to myself again, but i like to mention that the following csd's are
removed from the list:
bitwise.csd, bitshift.csd because there exist pages describing them. They
can be found under << and & . i didn't know that, but i found out when i was
looking at divide.csd that was also not mentioned in the manual under the
opcode "divide". But it was there under / . :)
Also "ceil" has been removed because now there is a good example available.

This thread is getting a bit messy so i will continue my findings on a blog
page. People interested can go there and perhaps help with examples i can
not create myself.

thanks,
Menno

Hello menno,

I agree that this work to confirm and improve all the examples in the  
manual is incredibly important.

For sure we need one good example per opcode, but, in some cases, it  
would be nice to have even more than one.

Thanks so much for your work on this project.  And good luck.

Dr. B.

On Apr 18, 2010, at 11:55 AM, joachim heintz wrote:

> Hi menno -
>
> i think what you are doing there is really important. Thanks.
> I can contribute an example for ceil (you can use the similar later  
> for floor, if you like):
>
> 
> 
> -nm0
> 
> 
> instr 1
> inum = p4
> iceil = ceil(inum)
> print iceil
> endin
> 
> 
> i 1 0 0 1
> i . . . 0.999999
> i . . . 0.000001
> i . . . 0
> i . . . -0.0000001
> i . . . -0.9999999
> i . . . -1
> e
> 
> 
>
> Best -
>
> 	joachim
>
>
> Am 18.04.2010 um 15:57 schrieb menno:
>
>>
>> These are the results of looking into the examples A-C:
>> - a zipped file with examples that work out-of-the-box over here:
>> http://old.nabble.com/file/p28282393/improved%2Bexamples.zip
>> improved+examples.zip
>> - problems with opcodes that have bugs or examples for opcodes that  
>> i can
>> not create because i do not know what their purposes are:
>>
>>
>> A
>>
>> - hetro / adsyn
>> makes noise, does not work in XP, 5.11, double precision. Bug?
>>
>> - adsynt <---> adsynth2
>> the example of adsynt works fine, but replacing adsynt by adsynt2  
>> does not
>> pruduce the desired result, Bug?
>>
>> - alwayson
>> no example, so when to use?
>>
>> - aresonk
>> no example, so when to use?
>>
>> - atonek
>> no example, so when to use?
>>
>> - atonex
>> opcode is not affected by changing the inumlayer. Sounds always the  
>> same, no
>> matter what value Bug?
>>
>>
>> B
>>
>> - bitshift and bitwise
>> there are csd's in the examplefolder, but they have no pages in  
>> manual
>>
>>
>>
>> C
>>
>> - ceil
>> no example, and i don't know what to do with it
>>
>> - the channel opcodes have no out-of-the-box examples but that is  
>> logic
>>
>> - connect
>> no example, so when to use?
>>
>> - cpspch
>> my output = 439.963 and not 440. This should be changed in the manual
>>
>>
>> Maybe it is a good idea to try to find answers on the dev- list and  
>> dig
>> further there?
>> Menno
>> -- 
>> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/checking-the-manual-A-C-tp28270643p28282393.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>



Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Thanks for your support, Dr. Boulanger
it is because i am not a programmer that i personally am in need of such
examples. And there must be others like me, looking at that high mountain of
learning that has to be traversed when not having a big talent for
programming. Simple examples of each and every opcode should be self
explainatory as to why such an opcode was invented in the first place. And
no fiddling around with examples that are nearly complete because they lack
a score or signal rate and control rate is not specified and so on. They
only confuse beginners. Just plain and clear csd files that work right away.
But i see the beaty and possibilities of csound, so i keep going.
The downside of the fact that i am not a programmer is of course that i can
not always come up with new examples because i do not comprehend what the
author's intentions were when he created that particular opcode.
i use a blog http://www.csounds.com/node/1394 where i mention the opcodes
that i can not create an example for, in the hope that other people might
jump in. 

Menno