Hi All,

I've been listening to Erasure's "What Will I Say When You're Gone?"
quite a bit the past week and have been trying to figure out a sound
in it.  The song is available here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOlq9BoDg6o

and the sound starts in at about 1:33. I was seeing some full spectrum
action in an FFT and was thinking it might be a modal synth with an
impulse + other excitation resonating a bank of filters, but I haven't
quite gotten figured it out yet.

Anyone have some thoughts?

Thanks!
steven


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As a quick guess:

there is some "orchstration" going on there - a filtered noise decaying 
tone is doubled at a two-octave distance (I think! with all the other 
stuff going on it is difficult to be certain), plus at least one further 
semi-independent homophonic voice at the top (contrary motion sort of 
thing). So it is a sequence of (probably) three note chords. There is a 
further voice adding the little descant figure, pretty much the same 
"plucked noise" patch - white noise through a standard VCO resonant 
filter not quite all the way to oscillation, but pretty high Q, and all 
through ADSR. The shape of the decay is so much like short semi-gated 
reverb that that might well be what they are doing.

So in short - not one tone, but three played together tightly. Maybe the 
doubling sound is handled as one played synth note in a multi-oscillator 
setup. Possibly the base tone is reinforced by something more centred 
timbrally; doesn't sound as noise-based as the upper tones. Could be a 
simple staccato bowed cello or bass tone, filtered and with a slightly 
rounded attack. A sampled string sound. Sort of thing.

Richard Dobson




On 17/10/2011 00:46, Steven Yi wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I've been listening to Erasure's "What Will I Say When You're Gone?"
> quite a bit the past week and have been trying to figure out a sound
> in it.  The song is available here:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOlq9BoDg6o
>
> and the sound starts in at about 1:33. I was seeing some full spectrum
> action in an FFT and was thinking it might be a modal synth with an
> impulse + other excitation resonating a bank of filters, but I haven't
> quite gotten figured it out yet.
>
> Anyone have some thoughts?
>
> Thanks!
> steven
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



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Out of curiosity Richard, did you come to this conclusion just by
listening to it or did you do a quick FFT analysis? I fear the
former...

On 17 October 2011 11:23, Richard Dobson  wrote:
> As a quick guess:
>
> there is some "orchstration" going on there - a filtered noise decaying tone
> is doubled at a two-octave distance (I think! with all the other stuff going
> on it is difficult to be certain), plus at least one further
> semi-independent homophonic voice at the top (contrary motion sort of
> thing). So it is a sequence of (probably) three note chords. There is a
> further voice adding the little descant figure, pretty much the same
> "plucked noise" patch - white noise through a standard VCO resonant filter
> not quite all the way to oscillation, but pretty high Q, and all through
> ADSR. The shape of the decay is so much like short semi-gated reverb that
> that might well be what they are doing.
>
> So in short - not one tone, but three played together tightly. Maybe the
> doubling sound is handled as one played synth note in a multi-oscillator
> setup. Possibly the base tone is reinforced by something more centred
> timbrally; doesn't sound as noise-based as the upper tones. Could be a
> simple staccato bowed cello or bass tone, filtered and with a slightly
> rounded attack. A sampled string sound. Sort of thing.
>
> Richard Dobson
>
>
>
>
> On 17/10/2011 00:46, Steven Yi wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I've been listening to Erasure's "What Will I Say When You're Gone?"
>> quite a bit the past week and have been trying to figure out a sound
>> in it.  The song is available here:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOlq9BoDg6o
>>
>> and the sound starts in at about 1:33. I was seeing some full spectrum
>> action in an FFT and was thinking it might be a modal synth with an
>> impulse + other excitation resonating a bank of filters, but I haven't
>> quite gotten figured it out yet.
>>
>> Anyone have some thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> steven
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>


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Yes, listening. I am not very good at figuring stuff out from FFTs :-(. 
There is so much going on the the track I wonder how clear an FFT would 
be. Possibly a massive partial-track (sines+noise style) analysis would 
enable one to separate things out a bit. Maybe the "Sonic Visualiser" 
tool (www.sonicvisualiser.org) would be useful there?

Richard Dobson



On 17/10/2011 11:26, Rory Walsh wrote:
> Out of curiosity Richard, did you come to this conclusion just by
> listening to it or did you do a quick FFT analysis? I fear the
> former...
>
> On 17 October 2011 11:23, Richard Dobson  wrote:
>> As a quick guess:
>>
>> there is some "orchstration" going on there - a filtered noise decaying tone
>> is doubled at a two-octave distance (I think! with all the other stuff going
>> on it is difficult to be certain), plus at least one further
>> semi-independent homophonic voice at the top (contrary motion sort of
>> thing). So it is a sequence of (probably) three note chords. There is a
>> further voice adding the little descant figure, pretty much the same
>> "plucked noise" patch - white noise through a standard VCO resonant filter
>> not quite all the way to oscillation, but pretty high Q, and all through
>> ADSR. The shape of the decay is so much like short semi-gated reverb that
>> that might well be what they are doing.
>>
>> So in short - not one tone, but three played together tightly. Maybe the
>> doubling sound is handled as one played synth note in a multi-oscillator
>> setup. Possibly the base tone is reinforced by something more centred
>> timbrally; doesn't sound as noise-based as the upper tones. Could be a
>> simple staccato bowed cello or bass tone, filtered and with a slightly
>> rounded attack. A sampled string sound. Sort of thing.
>>
>> Richard Dobson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 17/10/2011 00:46, Steven Yi wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I've been listening to Erasure's "What Will I Say When You're Gone?"
>>> quite a bit the past week and have been trying to figure out a sound
>>> in it.  The song is available here:
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOlq9BoDg6o
>>>
>>> and the sound starts in at about 1:33. I was seeing some full spectrum
>>> action in an FFT and was thinking it might be a modal synth with an
>>> impulse + other excitation resonating a bank of filters, but I haven't
>>> quite gotten figured it out yet.
>>>
>>> Anyone have some thoughts?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> steven
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



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Thanks Richard for your comments.  I was using sonicvisualiser myself
to look at the FFT, but as you mention there's a lot going on in there
so was going off a little bit from ear and from what I saw in the FFT.
 I also thought about a thick reverb as a possibility.  I didn't think
that the noise component I heard might be separate from the shiny-ish
sound, or that there might be some layer, as it sounded like an
excitation and body kind of sound to me, but I'm going to be
continuing to experiment to see if I can recreate the sound.

On the other hand, I just put together a nice modal synthesis
instrument last night that I'll probably have my hands full with for a
few days. :P

Thanks again!
steven

On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Richard Dobson
 wrote:
> Yes, listening. I am not very good at figuring stuff out from FFTs :-(.
> There is so much going on the the track I wonder how clear an FFT would be.
> Possibly a massive partial-track (sines+noise style) analysis would enable
> one to separate things out a bit. Maybe the "Sonic Visualiser" tool
> (www.sonicvisualiser.org) would be useful there?
>
> Richard Dobson
>
>
>
> On 17/10/2011 11:26, Rory Walsh wrote:
>>
>> Out of curiosity Richard, did you come to this conclusion just by
>> listening to it or did you do a quick FFT analysis? I fear the
>> former...
>>
>> On 17 October 2011 11:23, Richard Dobson
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> As a quick guess:
>>>
>>> there is some "orchstration" going on there - a filtered noise decaying
>>> tone
>>> is doubled at a two-octave distance (I think! with all the other stuff
>>> going
>>> on it is difficult to be certain), plus at least one further
>>> semi-independent homophonic voice at the top (contrary motion sort of
>>> thing). So it is a sequence of (probably) three note chords. There is a
>>> further voice adding the little descant figure, pretty much the same
>>> "plucked noise" patch - white noise through a standard VCO resonant
>>> filter
>>> not quite all the way to oscillation, but pretty high Q, and all through
>>> ADSR. The shape of the decay is so much like short semi-gated reverb that
>>> that might well be what they are doing.
>>>
>>> So in short - not one tone, but three played together tightly. Maybe the
>>> doubling sound is handled as one played synth note in a multi-oscillator
>>> setup. Possibly the base tone is reinforced by something more centred
>>> timbrally; doesn't sound as noise-based as the upper tones. Could be a
>>> simple staccato bowed cello or bass tone, filtered and with a slightly
>>> rounded attack. A sampled string sound. Sort of thing.
>>>
>>> Richard Dobson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17/10/2011 00:46, Steven Yi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I've been listening to Erasure's "What Will I Say When You're Gone?"
>>>> quite a bit the past week and have been trying to figure out a sound
>>>> in it.  The song is available here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOlq9BoDg6o
>>>>
>>>> and the sound starts in at about 1:33. I was seeing some full spectrum
>>>> action in an FFT and was thinking it might be a modal synth with an
>>>> impulse + other excitation resonating a bank of filters, but I haven't
>>>> quite gotten figured it out yet.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have some thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> steven
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>


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Yes, my bet would be it's a synth that's being harmonized (octaves)
with possibly a tiny tiny bit of feedback.

P

On 17 October 2011 11:23, Richard Dobson  wrote:
> As a quick guess:
>
> there is some "orchstration" going on there - a filtered noise decaying tone
> is doubled at a two-octave distance (I think! with all the other stuff going
> on it is difficult to be certain), plus at least one further
> semi-independent homophonic voice at the top (contrary motion sort of
> thing). So it is a sequence of (probably) three note chords. There is a
> further voice adding the little descant figure, pretty much the same
> "plucked noise" patch - white noise through a standard VCO resonant filter
> not quite all the way to oscillation, but pretty high Q, and all through
> ADSR. The shape of the decay is so much like short semi-gated reverb that
> that might well be what they are doing.
>
> So in short - not one tone, but three played together tightly. Maybe the
> doubling sound is handled as one played synth note in a multi-oscillator
> setup. Possibly the base tone is reinforced by something more centred
> timbrally; doesn't sound as noise-based as the upper tones. Could be a
> simple staccato bowed cello or bass tone, filtered and with a slightly
> rounded attack. A sampled string sound. Sort of thing.
>
> Richard Dobson
>
>
>
>
> On 17/10/2011 00:46, Steven Yi wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I've been listening to Erasure's "What Will I Say When You're Gone?"
>> quite a bit the past week and have been trying to figure out a sound
>> in it.  The song is available here:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOlq9BoDg6o
>>
>> and the sound starts in at about 1:33. I was seeing some full spectrum
>> action in an FFT and was thinking it might be a modal synth with an
>> impulse + other excitation resonating a bank of filters, but I haven't
>> quite gotten figured it out yet.
>>
>> Anyone have some thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> steven
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>


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