Hello everyone,

I would write something for an audio system with eight channels.

What are the operational codes that I know (besides outo) in order to make
the signal paths in space ... and other things?
Where can I find examples?

Thanks for any suggestions ...

e

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I would recommend the ambisonic opcodes if you have a circle or a cube.

==John ff

> Hello everyone,
>
> I would write something for an audio system with eight channels.
>
> What are the operational codes that I know (besides outo) in order to make
> the signal paths in space ... and other things?
> Where can I find examples?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions ...
>
> e
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/eight-channels-tp4412966p4412966.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>
>
>




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Or vbap8 for amplitude panning.

P

On 20/05/2011 17:28, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
> I would recommend the ambisonic opcodes if you have a circle or a cube.
>
> ==John ff
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I would write something for an audio system with eight channels.
>>
>> What are the operational codes that I know (besides outo) in order to make
>> the signal paths in space ... and other things?
>> Where can I find examples?
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions ...
>>
>> e
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/eight-channels-tp4412966p4412966.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
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spat3d has treated me well.

-Chet

On May 20, 2011, at 12:40 PM, peiman khosravi wrote:

> Or vbap8 for amplitude panning.
>
> P
>
> On 20/05/2011 17:28, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>> I would recommend the ambisonic opcodes if you have a circle or a  
>> cube.
>>
>> ==John ff
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> I would write something for an audio system with eight channels.
>>>
>>> What are the operational codes that I know (besides outo) in order  
>>> to make
>>> the signal paths in space ... and other things?
>>> Where can I find examples?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any suggestions ...
>>>
>>> e
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/eight-channels-tp4412966p4412966.html
>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>> "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
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>



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Trouble is people often expect these tools to just work, which they 
don't of course. I'm a little skeptical of Ambisonic as it seems to 
encourage a sort of hands-off approach - e.g. just think about where you 
want your sounds to be and let the software worry about how it's done. 
In my experience panners rarely produce satisfactory results and should 
be used carefully and with a lot of thought and experimentation.

Maybe I'm wrong but I can't stand the term 'spatialisation'. The concept 
is philosophically and phenomenologically flawed to the point of 
absurdity( A sound is already spatial, by virtue of being a sound). 
What's wrong with 'sound projection'?

...rant over!

P

On 20/05/2011 17:28, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
> I would recommend the ambisonic opcodes if you have a circle or a cube.
>
> ==John ff
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I would write something for an audio system with eight channels.
>>
>> What are the operational codes that I know (besides outo) in order to make
>> the signal paths in space ... and other things?
>> Where can I find examples?
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions ...
>>
>> e
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/eight-channels-tp4412966p4412966.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>



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Joachin's piece at LAC was a good example of 8-channel ambisonics.

Victor
On 20 May 2011, at 17:52, peiman khosravi wrote:

>
> Trouble is people often expect these tools to just work, which they  
> don't of course. I'm a little skeptical of Ambisonic as it seems to  
> encourage a sort of hands-off approach - e.g. just think about where  
> you want your sounds to be and let the software worry about how it's  
> done. In my experience panners rarely produce satisfactory results  
> and should be used carefully and with a lot of thought and  
> experimentation.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong but I can't stand the term 'spatialisation'. The  
> concept is philosophically and phenomenologically flawed to the  
> point of absurdity( A sound is already spatial, by virtue of being a  
> sound). What's wrong with 'sound projection'?
>
> ...rant over!
>
> P
>
> On 20/05/2011 17:28, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>> I would recommend the ambisonic opcodes if you have a circle or a  
>> cube.
>>
>> ==John ff
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> I would write something for an audio system with eight channels.
>>>
>>> What are the operational codes that I know (besides outo) in order  
>>> to make
>>> the signal paths in space ... and other things?
>>> Where can I find examples?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any suggestions ...
>>>
>>> e
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/eight-channels-tp4412966p4412966.html
>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>> "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>

Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie





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Joachim's piece...
On 20 May 2011, at 18:12, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> Joachin's piece at LAC was a good example of 8-channel ambisonics.
>
> Victor
> On 20 May 2011, at 17:52, peiman khosravi wrote:
>
>>
>> Trouble is people often expect these tools to just work, which they  
>> don't of course. I'm a little skeptical of Ambisonic as it seems to  
>> encourage a sort of hands-off approach - e.g. just think about  
>> where you want your sounds to be and let the software worry about  
>> how it's done. In my experience panners rarely produce satisfactory  
>> results and should be used carefully and with a lot of thought and  
>> experimentation.
>>
>> Maybe I'm wrong but I can't stand the term 'spatialisation'. The  
>> concept is philosophically and phenomenologically flawed to the  
>> point of absurdity( A sound is already spatial, by virtue of being  
>> a sound). What's wrong with 'sound projection'?
>>
>> ...rant over!
>>
>> P
>>
>> On 20/05/2011 17:28, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>>> I would recommend the ambisonic opcodes if you have a circle or a  
>>> cube.
>>>
>>> ==John ff
>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I would write something for an audio system with eight channels.
>>>>
>>>> What are the operational codes that I know (besides outo) in  
>>>> order to make
>>>> the signal paths in space ... and other things?
>>>> Where can I find examples?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any suggestions ...
>>>>
>>>> e
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/eight-channels-tp4412966p4412966.html
>>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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>>
>
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> Dept. of Music
> NUI Maynooth Ireland
> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>

Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie





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Enrico,

I have been getting good results simply using envelopes to control the 
panning between variable combinations of 8 speakers. I parallel those 
panning envelopes with reverb and amplitude envelopes to achieve the 
sensation of moving from closer to further or static positioning... I 
change those on an event by event basis...

Quite simplistic but it sounds really good.... and it was easy to code.

It allows me to easily control it manually although I usually control it 
from the score by setting up a mask in Cmask to generate interesting 
combinations.

Good Luck!!

Michael


On 5/20/11 1:12 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> Joachin's piece at LAC was a good example of 8-channel ambisonics.
>
> Victor
> On 20 May 2011, at 17:52, peiman khosravi wrote:
>
>>
>> Trouble is people often expect these tools to just work, which they 
>> don't of course. I'm a little skeptical of Ambisonic as it seems to 
>> encourage a sort of hands-off approach - e.g. just think about where 
>> you want your sounds to be and let the software worry about how it's 
>> done. In my experience panners rarely produce satisfactory results 
>> and should be used carefully and with a lot of thought and 
>> experimentation.
>>
>> Maybe I'm wrong but I can't stand the term 'spatialisation'. The 
>> concept is philosophically and phenomenologically flawed to the point 
>> of absurdity( A sound is already spatial, by virtue of being a 
>> sound). What's wrong with 'sound projection'?
>>
>> ...rant over!
>>
>> P
>>
>> On 20/05/2011 17:28, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>>> I would recommend the ambisonic opcodes if you have a circle or a cube.
>>>
>>> ==John ff
>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I would write something for an audio system with eight channels.
>>>>
>>>> What are the operational codes that I know (besides outo) in order 
>>>> to make
>>>> the signal paths in space ... and other things?
>>>> Where can I find examples?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any suggestions ...
>>>>
>>>> e
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/eight-channels-tp4412966p4412966.html 
>>>>
>>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>             
>>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> Dept. of Music
> NUI Maynooth Ireland
> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
> "unsubscribe csound"



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Many thanks to the many and various councils
all your advice is obviously a personal thought of sound in space ...

... of which piece it comes to Joachin?
There is a link to the song?

many thanks,

but also look forward to other responses, if any


e

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Yes but still, if you are sitting close to one speaker the algorithm is 
not going to work perfectly. As is indeed the case with amplitude 
panning. And it is certainly not possible for the sounds to approach the 
listener. It is, however possible to create the impression that sounds 
approach the listener or wash over their faces in a wavelike manner 
though careful mixing and spectral sculpting of sounds. My point is 
there is no simple remedy for it.

I am not saying Ambisonic is no good, as you point out I have heard good 
ambisonic pieces. But it is not fool proof as some make it out to be. 
And in the end whatever algorithm one uses it all come down to a proper 
compositional approach to space - i.e. spatiality is far more subtle and 
intricate than mere localization (which apparently ambisonic excels at, 
although I remain to be convinced).

Best,

Peiman


On 20/05/2011 18:12, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> Joachin's piece at LAC was a good example of 8-channel ambisonics.
>
> Victor
> On 20 May 2011, at 17:52, peiman khosravi wrote:
>
>>
>> Trouble is people often expect these tools to just work, which they 
>> don't of course. I'm a little skeptical of Ambisonic as it seems to 
>> encourage a sort of hands-off approach - e.g. just think about where 
>> you want your sounds to be and let the software worry about how it's 
>> done. In my experience panners rarely produce satisfactory results 
>> and should be used carefully and with a lot of thought and 
>> experimentation.
>>
>> Maybe I'm wrong but I can't stand the term 'spatialisation'. The 
>> concept is philosophically and phenomenologically flawed to the point 
>> of absurdity( A sound is already spatial, by virtue of being a 
>> sound). What's wrong with 'sound projection'?
>>
>> ...rant over!
>>
>> P
>>
>> On 20/05/2011 17:28, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>>> I would recommend the ambisonic opcodes if you have a circle or a cube.
>>>
>>> ==John ff
>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I would write something for an audio system with eight channels.
>>>>
>>>> What are the operational codes that I know (besides outo) in order 
>>>> to make
>>>> the signal paths in space ... and other things?
>>>> Where can I find examples?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any suggestions ...
>>>>
>>>> e
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/eight-channels-tp4412966p4412966.html 
>>>>
>>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>             
>>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
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>>
>
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> Dept. of Music
> NUI Maynooth Ireland
> tel.: +353 1 708 3545
> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie
>
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
> "unsubscribe csound"
>



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definitely.

On 20 May 2011, at 18:32, peiman khosravi wrote:

> But it is not fool proof as some make it out to be

Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
Dept. of Music
NUI Maynooth Ireland
tel.: +353 1 708 3545
Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie





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Hi Enrico -

from my piece "Ambi-Schlagfluss" (not actually a song ...) you can just
find a stereo-mixdown here:
http://joachimheintz.de/stuecke/musik/AmbiSchlagflussStereo.mp3

If you want to get the 8 original channels, just mail me off-list.

I made an example in QuteCsound: Examples > Miscellaneous >
Spatialization (sorry Peiman ...=). It tries to compare VBAP and
Ambisonics (order 1-3) for different speaker setups. It's not perfect,
but you can see how it works.

I personally like the simplicity and neutrality of VBAP. You can easily
work with asymmetric speaker positions, for instance 7 speakers NOT
having equal distances. And the spread parameter gives you the
possibility to have the sound smaller or larger.

Ambisonics is very interesting, but transports in my opinion a more
specific atmosphere (or "aethetics"), which is good for some pieces but
not good for others. An if you want a sound move from speaker 2 to 6,
but not touching speakers 3, 4, 5 on this way, you must program it by
yourself (which is not hard with outch).

	joachim


Am 20.05.2011 19:30, schrieb Enrico Francioni:
> Many thanks to the many and various councils
> all your advice is obviously a personal thought of sound in space ...
> 
> ... of which piece it comes to Joachin?
> There is a link to the song?
> 
> many thanks,
> 
> but also look forward to other responses, if any
> 
> 
> e
> 
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/eight-channels-tp4412966p4413134.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 


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Hi Joachim, 
thanks for your valuable information.
I'll write something when I have heard and seen the examples and the
possibilities of ambisonic tell me.

e

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hello,

is a possible explanation of these abbreviations (in manual of opcode
bformdec1)?
many thanks
enrico

4. Octagon - 
FFL(22.5) = ?
FLL(67.5) = ?
BLL(112.5) = ?
BBL(157.5) = ?
BBR(-157.5) = ?
BRR(-112.5) = ?
FRR(-67.5) = ?
FFR(-22.5) = ?

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Well, the naming seems to be patterned on the naming English uses for
the third level compass points, those things like NNW and ESE, though
here they use F and B for front and back and L and R for left and
right. The numbers appear to be the angle in degrees measured
counterclockwise with 0 degrees straight ahead. So FFL is 22.5 degrees
to the left of straight ahead, or halfway between front and
front-left. FLL is 67.5 degrees left of straight ahead or halfway
between left and front-left.

David Bowen

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Enrico Francioni
 wrote:
>
> hello,
>
> is a possible explanation of these abbreviations (in manual of opcode
> bformdec1)?
> many thanks
> enrico
>
> 4. Octagon -
> FFL(22.5) = ?
> FLL(67.5) = ?
> BLL(112.5) = ?
> BBL(157.5) = ?
> BBR(-157.5) = ?
> BRR(-112.5) = ?
> FRR(-67.5) = ?
> FFR(-22.5) = ?
>
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>
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>

thanks David, 
but I am not yet clear ...
why three characters?

e

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Hello Ciao Enrico,
i don't know anything about multichannel audio but i've found some info
here:
(Non so nulla di audio multicanale ma prova a vedere:)

http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/Ambisonics.htm
ad es.
http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/Public/B-format/A2B-conversion/A2B.htm

Spero chiariscano un minimo.

Ciao,
francesco.


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?


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Well, one character would represent the primary directions, front,
back, left and right. Two characters would be the secondary directions
halfway between the primaries; NE, NW, SE, and SW on a compass, FL,
FR, BL, and BR in your local audio field. That leaves the three
character names for the directions halfway between a primary and a
secondary.

David Bowen

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Enrico Francioni
 wrote:
>
> thanks David,
> but I am not yet clear ...
> why three characters?
>
> e
>
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> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/eight-channels-tp4412966p5709957.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>

I think acronyms are explained as well

4. Octagon - 
FFL(22.5) = Front Front Left 
FLL(67.5) = Front Left Left  
BLL(112.5) = Back Left Left
BBL(157.5) = Back Back Left
BBR(-157.5) = Back Back Right
BRR(-112.5) = Back Right Right
FRR(-67.5) = Front Right Right  
FFR(-22.5) = Front Front Right  

            1        8


2                               7


3                               6


            4         5

no?
e

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