[Csnd] Some remarks on LAC

[Csnd] Some remarks on LAC

Date	2011-05-11 07:06
From	john ffitch
Subject	[Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	I am happy to agree with the comments about the Maynooth LAC; good company, some good music and some interesting presentations. As I suggested earlier, there were a significant number of developers at the meeting and we held a useful meeting with a number of users as well. Michael Gogins took detailed minutes, but as he is on vacation in Ireland for some days I thought i would present a very short summary. Following comments from the mailing list we discussed a number of topics and made some plans. In no special order.... Creation of instruments on the fly JPff to take this. Basically quite some work but not any major problems. No time scale suggested Steaming opcodes for LPC ...and we added the problem with silence in LPC. Victor offered to look into this unlimited p-fields This is unlikely to happen as there are internal technical problems; one solution would require a rewrite of every opcode. The request was noted Accuracy in cpspch and kin The is a documentation issue. There are accurate alternatives multithreading This is nearly done. At LAC we agreed top merge sources (which has been done). Still work to be done on software bus and load balancing Java wrapper for OS X (for the doubles version). Should be in the next release Patterns Possibly too hard at present. Some uncertainty as how it fits the Csound model Better table display Not really discussed (but see below) unit gen. interface to mySQL Short discussion that this was the kind of opcode that could be written when anyone has time. A clearer design of opcodes/args would be nice strings as p-fields in event opcodes JPff said that there was code for this, but it was shown that it did not work. JPff to look into it better precision but the rt midi I have no notes on this c-array style named table access for expressions & first-class arrays Very unlikely to happen soon as it is much too much work compiler We think this relates to the loadable code issue above standalone system Not discussed in detail revisit environment variables defaults Some progress was made -- I think that a nice solution was proposed but my notes are deficient Reallocation of plugins the suggestion to identify a core set of opcodes was generally rejected interpolating 'exprand' and 'cauchy' This is "just an opcode" and should be done soon Better string support Hardly discussed Flexible position of UDO definitions in instr 0 This was news to me at least; will investigate line numbers in parser This is just a bug (and I think fixed in GIT now) scoped ftables? This related to private tables; a number of suggestions were made, and it will be more important with loadable code. Steven and JPff to look further Open GL this is proposed new family of opcodes. Michael showed that it was all possible with LUA. GUI opcodes (Cabbage?) & can we decouple FLTK?? There was support for using the Cabbage system and syntax for moving GUIs out of the core. But the FLTK opcodes are still there and backward compatibility limits our scope for change. No conclusions better error messages in parser This is very important. There are two aspects. One is to make the messages clearer to the non-technical user, and the other is give more specific errors. Steven has looked at this but it proved not as easy as the documentation of bison suggests. JPff offered to look as well --- actually I worked on this on the homeward journey and apart from one minor error case it was a failure. However will make this high priority sfz format There was to be a talk from the Fluidsynth developers, and so it would be nice to get them to support it, and thus piggy-back. more output channels Possibly current state is acceptable. Needs to be kept in line out reducing Michael and JPff were discussing better ways of accumulating the audio output, especially in multi-core. Worth more investigation variable k-rates Steven offered to circulate his partial code solution. JPff remarked that the constant property of ksmps is used throughout the code, and Victor commented on the (lack of) interaction with external events CPU meter and per core? There was a request for an opcode (now in GIT) debugger JPff suggested that the new parser could be enhanced to allow probes throughout for debugging. Not high priority but would be nice Opcode GPUs We should consider deployment of GPU opcodes (there is a paper at ICMC on phase-vocoding on a GPGPU) but must still keep "vanilla" hardware version Hetro made multi platform etc Changing the hetro/adsyn file format should be done. Some problems with retained analysis, but can be done UDO automatician We discussed automatic loading of UDOs from a fixed location. This would include adding names to -z options ------- These notes are from what I wrote and my poor memory. Others may like to correct and clarify ==John ffitch Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 07:49
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	My memory of this is that we would rellocate everything but the opcodes with external dependencies. Or did we decide something else? Victor On 11 May 2011, at 07:06, john ffitch wrote: > Reallocation of plugins > the suggestion to identify a core set of opcodes was > generally rejected Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 09:41
From	Andres Cabrera
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	I'd like to help out with the array suggestion. I'll need a lot of help with the parser, though... Cheers, Andres On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:06 AM, john ffitch wrote: > I am happy to agree with the comments about the Maynooth LAC; good > company, some good music and some interesting presentations. > > As I suggested earlier, there were a significant number of developers > at the meeting and we held a useful meeting with a number of users as > well. > > Michael Gogins took detailed minutes, but as he is on vacation in > Ireland for some days I thought i would present a very short summary. > > Following comments from the mailing list we discussed a number of > topics and made some plans. In no special order.... > > Creation of instruments on the fly > JPff to take this. Basically quite some work but not any > major problems. No time scale suggested > > Steaming opcodes for LPC > ...and we added the problem with silence in LPC. Victor > offered to look into this > > unlimited p-fields > This is unlikely to happen as there are internal technical > problems; one solution would require a rewrite of every > opcode. The request was noted > > Accuracy in cpspch and kin > The is a documentation issue. There are accurate > alternatives > > multithreading > This is nearly done. At LAC we agreed top merge sources > (which has been done). Still work to be done on software > bus and load balancing > > Java wrapper for OS X (for the doubles version). > Should be in the next release > > Patterns > Possibly too hard at present. Some uncertainty as how it > fits the Csound model > > Better table display > Not really discussed (but see below) > > unit gen. interface to mySQL > Short discussion that this was the kind of opcode that could > be written when anyone has time. A clearer design of > opcodes/args would be nice > > strings as p-fields in event opcodes > JPff said that there was code for this, but it was shown that > it did not work. JPff to look into it > > better precision but the rt midi > I have no notes on this > > c-array style named table access for expressions & first-class arrays > Very unlikely to happen soon as it is much too much work > > compiler > We think this relates to the loadable code issue above > > standalone system > Not discussed in detail > > revisit environment variables defaults > Some progress was made -- I think that a nice solution was > proposed but my notes are deficient > > Reallocation of plugins > the suggestion to identify a core set of opcodes was > generally rejected > > interpolating 'exprand' and 'cauchy' > This is "just an opcode" and should be done soon > > Better string support > Hardly discussed > > Flexible position of UDO definitions in instr 0 > This was news to me at least; will investigate > > line numbers in parser > This is just a bug (and I think fixed in GIT now) > > scoped ftables? > This related to private tables; a number of suggestions were > made, and it will be more important with loadable code. > Steven and JPff to look further > > Open GL > this is proposed new family of opcodes. Michael showed that > it was all possible with LUA. > > GUI opcodes (Cabbage?) & can we decouple FLTK?? > There was support for using the Cabbage system and syntax for > moving GUIs out of the core. But the FLTK opcodes are still > there and backward compatibility limits our scope for change. > No conclusions > > better error messages in parser > This is very important. There are two aspects. One is to > make the messages clearer to the non-technical user, and the > other is give more specific errors. Steven has looked at > this but it proved not as easy as the documentation of bison > suggests. JPff offered to look as well --- actually I worked > on this on the homeward journey and apart from one minor > error case it was a failure. However will make this high > priority > > sfz format > There was to be a talk from the Fluidsynth developers, and so > it would be nice to get them to support it, and thus > piggy-back. > > more output channels > Possibly current state is acceptable. Needs to be kept in line > > out reducing > Michael and JPff were discussing better ways of accumulating > the audio output, especially in multi-core. Worth more > investigation > > variable k-rates > Steven offered to circulate his partial code solution. JPff > remarked that the constant property of ksmps is used > throughout the code, and Victor commented on the (lack of) > interaction with external events > > CPU meter and per core? > There was a request for an opcode (now in GIT) > > debugger > JPff suggested that the new parser could be enhanced to allow > probes throughout for debugging. Not high priority but would > be nice > > Opcode GPUs > We should consider deployment of GPU opcodes (there is a > paper at ICMC on phase-vocoding on a GPGPU) but must still > keep "vanilla" hardware version > > Hetro made multi platform etc > Changing the hetro/adsyn file format should be done. Some > problems with retained analysis, but can be done > > UDO automatician > We discussed automatic loading of UDOs from a fixed > location. This would include adding names to -z options > > ------- > > These notes are from what I wrote and my poor memory. Others may like > to correct and clarify > > ==John ffitch > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 12:07
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	I also made the point that I don't think Csound should be shipped with any frontend. I'm of the opinion that frontends such as Blue, QuteCsound, WinXound, future MacCsound's etc, should look after the installation and setup of Csound themselves, not the other way around. Rory. On 11 May 2011 09:41, Andres Cabrera wrote: > I'd like to help out with the array suggestion. I'll need a lot of > help with the parser, though... > > Cheers, > Andres > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:06 AM, john ffitch wrote: >> I am happy to agree with the comments about the Maynooth LAC; good >> company, some good music and some interesting presentations. >> >> As I suggested earlier, there were a significant number of developers >> at the meeting and we held a useful meeting with a number of users as >> well. >> >> Michael Gogins took detailed minutes, but as he is on vacation in >> Ireland for some days I thought i would present a very short summary. >> >> Following comments from the mailing list we discussed a number of >> topics and made some plans. In no special order.... >> >> Creation of instruments on the fly >> JPff to take this. Basically quite some work but not any >> major problems. No time scale suggested >> >> Steaming opcodes for LPC >> ...and we added the problem with silence in LPC. Victor >> offered to look into this >> >> unlimited p-fields >> This is unlikely to happen as there are internal technical >> problems; one solution would require a rewrite of every >> opcode. The request was noted >> >> Accuracy in cpspch and kin >> The is a documentation issue. There are accurate >> alternatives >> >> multithreading >> This is nearly done. At LAC we agreed top merge sources >> (which has been done). Still work to be done on software >> bus and load balancing >> >> Java wrapper for OS X (for the doubles version). >> Should be in the next release >> >> Patterns >> Possibly too hard at present. Some uncertainty as how it >> fits the Csound model >> >> Better table display >> Not really discussed (but see below) >> >> unit gen. interface to mySQL >> Short discussion that this was the kind of opcode that could >> be written when anyone has time. A clearer design of >> opcodes/args would be nice >> >> strings as p-fields in event opcodes >> JPff said that there was code for this, but it was shown that >> it did not work. JPff to look into it >> >> better precision but the rt midi >> I have no notes on this >> >> c-array style named table access for expressions & first-class arrays >> Very unlikely to happen soon as it is much too much work >> >> compiler >> We think this relates to the loadable code issue above >> >> standalone system >> Not discussed in detail >> >> revisit environment variables defaults >> Some progress was made -- I think that a nice solution was >> proposed but my notes are deficient >> >> Reallocation of plugins >> the suggestion to identify a core set of opcodes was >> generally rejected >> >> interpolating 'exprand' and 'cauchy' >> This is "just an opcode" and should be done soon >> >> Better string support >> Hardly discussed >> >> Flexible position of UDO definitions in instr 0 >> This was news to me at least; will investigate >> >> line numbers in parser >> This is just a bug (and I think fixed in GIT now) >> >> scoped ftables? >> This related to private tables; a number of suggestions were >> made, and it will be more important with loadable code. >> Steven and JPff to look further >> >> Open GL >> this is proposed new family of opcodes. Michael showed that >> it was all possible with LUA. >> >> GUI opcodes (Cabbage?) & can we decouple FLTK?? >> There was support for using the Cabbage system and syntax for >> moving GUIs out of the core. But the FLTK opcodes are still >> there and backward compatibility limits our scope for change. >> No conclusions >> >> better error messages in parser >> This is very important. There are two aspects. One is to >> make the messages clearer to the non-technical user, and the >> other is give more specific errors. Steven has looked at >> this but it proved not as easy as the documentation of bison >> suggests. JPff offered to look as well --- actually I worked >> on this on the homeward journey and apart from one minor >> error case it was a failure. However will make this high >> priority >> >> sfz format >> There was to be a talk from the Fluidsynth developers, and so >> it would be nice to get them to support it, and thus >> piggy-back. >> >> more output channels >> Possibly current state is acceptable. Needs to be kept in line >> >> out reducing >> Michael and JPff were discussing better ways of accumulating >> the audio output, especially in multi-core. Worth more >> investigation >> >> variable k-rates >> Steven offered to circulate his partial code solution. JPff >> remarked that the constant property of ksmps is used >> throughout the code, and Victor commented on the (lack of) >> interaction with external events >> >> CPU meter and per core? >> There was a request for an opcode (now in GIT) >> >> debugger >> JPff suggested that the new parser could be enhanced to allow >> probes throughout for debugging. Not high priority but would >> be nice >> >> Opcode GPUs >> We should consider deployment of GPU opcodes (there is a >> paper at ICMC on phase-vocoding on a GPGPU) but must still >> keep "vanilla" hardware version >> >> Hetro made multi platform etc >> Changing the hetro/adsyn file format should be done. Some >> problems with retained analysis, but can be done >> >> UDO automatician >> We discussed automatic loading of UDOs from a fixed >> location. This would include adding names to -z options >> >> ------- >> >> These notes are from what I wrote and my poor memory. Others may like >> to correct and clarify >> >> ==John ffitch >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 12:35
From	Louis Cohen
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Rory, I think all the ideas mentioned are really great and will make Csound even better than it already is. But I disagree with your idea about shipping Csound without front ends. I can't prove this because we have no survey data to back it up, but I personally can't imagine using Csound without a front end. I haven't used it from the command line in years except in rare diagnostic instances. Just consider the way the world is moving -- even keyboards are going to become rare as touch screens become more prevalent. For me the front end IS Csound. I'd be curious to hear what others say about this. -Lou On May 11, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Rory Walsh wrote: > I also made the point that I don't think Csound should be shipped with > any frontend. I'm of the opinion that frontends such as Blue, > QuteCsound, WinXound, future MacCsound's etc, should look after the > installation and setup of Csound themselves, not the other way around. > > Rory. > > > > > > On 11 May 2011 09:41, Andres Cabrera wrote: >> I'd like to help out with the array suggestion. I'll need a lot of >> help with the parser, though... >> >> Cheers, >> Andres >> >> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:06 AM, john ffitch >> wrote: >>> I am happy to agree with the comments about the Maynooth LAC; good >>> company, some good music and some interesting presentations. >>> >>> As I suggested earlier, there were a significant number of >>> developers >>> at the meeting and we held a useful meeting with a number of users >>> as >>> well. >>> >>> Michael Gogins took detailed minutes, but as he is on vacation in >>> Ireland for some days I thought i would present a very short >>> summary. >>> >>> Following comments from the mailing list we discussed a number of >>> topics and made some plans. In no special order.... >>> >>> Creation of instruments on the fly >>> JPff to take this. Basically quite some work but not any >>> major problems. No time scale suggested >>> >>> Steaming opcodes for LPC >>> ...and we added the problem with silence in LPC. Victor >>> offered to look into this >>> >>> unlimited p-fields >>> This is unlikely to happen as there are internal technical >>> problems; one solution would require a rewrite of every >>> opcode. The request was noted >>> >>> Accuracy in cpspch and kin >>> The is a documentation issue. There are accurate >>> alternatives >>> >>> multithreading >>> This is nearly done. At LAC we agreed top merge sources >>> (which has been done). Still work to be done on software >>> bus and load balancing >>> >>> Java wrapper for OS X (for the doubles version). >>> Should be in the next release >>> >>> Patterns >>> Possibly too hard at present. Some uncertainty as how it >>> fits the Csound model >>> >>> Better table display >>> Not really discussed (but see below) >>> >>> unit gen. interface to mySQL >>> Short discussion that this was the kind of opcode that could >>> be written when anyone has time. A clearer design of >>> opcodes/args would be nice >>> >>> strings as p-fields in event opcodes >>> JPff said that there was code for this, but it was shown >>> that >>> it did not work. JPff to look into it >>> >>> better precision but the rt midi >>> I have no notes on this >>> >>> c-array style named table access for expressions & first-class >>> arrays >>> Very unlikely to happen soon as it is much too much work >>> >>> compiler >>> We think this relates to the loadable code issue above >>> >>> standalone system >>> Not discussed in detail >>> >>> revisit environment variables defaults >>> Some progress was made -- I think that a nice solution was >>> proposed but my notes are deficient >>> >>> Reallocation of plugins >>> the suggestion to identify a core set of opcodes was >>> generally rejected >>> >>> interpolating 'exprand' and 'cauchy' >>> This is "just an opcode" and should be done soon >>> >>> Better string support >>> Hardly discussed >>> >>> Flexible position of UDO definitions in instr 0 >>> This was news to me at least; will investigate >>> >>> line numbers in parser >>> This is just a bug (and I think fixed in GIT now) >>> >>> scoped ftables? >>> This related to private tables; a number of suggestions were >>> made, and it will be more important with loadable code. >>> Steven and JPff to look further >>> >>> Open GL >>> this is proposed new family of opcodes. Michael showed that >>> it was all possible with LUA. >>> >>> GUI opcodes (Cabbage?) & can we decouple FLTK?? >>> There was support for using the Cabbage system and syntax >>> for >>> moving GUIs out of the core. But the FLTK opcodes are still >>> there and backward compatibility limits our scope for >>> change. >>> No conclusions >>> >>> better error messages in parser >>> This is very important. There are two aspects. One is to >>> make the messages clearer to the non-technical user, and the >>> other is give more specific errors. Steven has looked at >>> this but it proved not as easy as the documentation of bison >>> suggests. JPff offered to look as well --- actually I >>> worked >>> on this on the homeward journey and apart from one minor >>> error case it was a failure. However will make this high >>> priority >>> >>> sfz format >>> There was to be a talk from the Fluidsynth developers, and >>> so >>> it would be nice to get them to support it, and thus >>> piggy-back. >>> >>> more output channels >>> Possibly current state is acceptable. Needs to be kept in >>> line >>> >>> out reducing >>> Michael and JPff were discussing better ways of accumulating >>> the audio output, especially in multi-core. Worth more >>> investigation >>> >>> variable k-rates >>> Steven offered to circulate his partial code solution. JPff >>> remarked that the constant property of ksmps is used >>> throughout the code, and Victor commented on the (lack of) >>> interaction with external events >>> >>> CPU meter and per core? >>> There was a request for an opcode (now in GIT) >>> >>> debugger >>> JPff suggested that the new parser could be enhanced to >>> allow >>> probes throughout for debugging. Not high priority but >>> would >>> be nice >>> >>> Opcode GPUs >>> We should consider deployment of GPU opcodes (there is a >>> paper at ICMC on phase-vocoding on a GPGPU) but must still >>> keep "vanilla" hardware version >>> >>> Hetro made multi platform etc >>> Changing the hetro/adsyn file format should be done. Some >>> problems with retained analysis, but can be done >>> >>> UDO automatician >>> We discussed automatic loading of UDOs from a fixed >>> location. This would include adding names to -z options >>> >>> ------- >>> >>> These notes are from what I wrote and my poor memory. Others may >>> like >>> to correct and clarify >>> >>> ==John ffitch >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>> "unsubscribe csound" >>> >>> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/? >> group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >> "unsubscribe csound" >> >> > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 12:39
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	I disagree. The OSX release of Csound includes QuteCsound, which makes life easier for many users, at least that is what everyone has told me. I have not had many (perhaps none) requests for removing it from the release. Regards Victor On 11 May 2011, at 12:07, Rory Walsh wrote: > I also made the point that I don't think Csound should be shipped with > any frontend. I'm of the opinion that frontends such as Blue, > QuteCsound, WinXound, future MacCsound's etc, should look after the > installation and setup of Csound themselves, not the other way around. > > Rory. > > > > > > On 11 May 2011 09:41, Andres Cabrera wrote: >> I'd like to help out with the array suggestion. I'll need a lot of >> help with the parser, though... >> >> Cheers, >> Andres >> >> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:06 AM, john ffitch >> wrote: >>> I am happy to agree with the comments about the Maynooth LAC; good >>> company, some good music and some interesting presentations. >>> >>> As I suggested earlier, there were a significant number of >>> developers >>> at the meeting and we held a useful meeting with a number of users >>> as >>> well. >>> >>> Michael Gogins took detailed minutes, but as he is on vacation in >>> Ireland for some days I thought i would present a very short >>> summary. >>> >>> Following comments from the mailing list we discussed a number of >>> topics and made some plans. In no special order.... >>> >>> Creation of instruments on the fly >>> JPff to take this. Basically quite some work but not any >>> major problems. No time scale suggested >>> >>> Steaming opcodes for LPC >>> ...and we added the problem with silence in LPC. Victor >>> offered to look into this >>> >>> unlimited p-fields >>> This is unlikely to happen as there are internal technical >>> problems; one solution would require a rewrite of every >>> opcode. The request was noted >>> >>> Accuracy in cpspch and kin >>> The is a documentation issue. There are accurate >>> alternatives >>> >>> multithreading >>> This is nearly done. At LAC we agreed top merge sources >>> (which has been done). Still work to be done on software >>> bus and load balancing >>> >>> Java wrapper for OS X (for the doubles version). >>> Should be in the next release >>> >>> Patterns >>> Possibly too hard at present. Some uncertainty as how it >>> fits the Csound model >>> >>> Better table display >>> Not really discussed (but see below) >>> >>> unit gen. interface to mySQL >>> Short discussion that this was the kind of opcode that could >>> be written when anyone has time. A clearer design of >>> opcodes/args would be nice >>> >>> strings as p-fields in event opcodes >>> JPff said that there was code for this, but it was shown >>> that >>> it did not work. JPff to look into it >>> >>> better precision but the rt midi >>> I have no notes on this >>> >>> c-array style named table access for expressions & first-class >>> arrays >>> Very unlikely to happen soon as it is much too much work >>> >>> compiler >>> We think this relates to the loadable code issue above >>> >>> standalone system >>> Not discussed in detail >>> >>> revisit environment variables defaults >>> Some progress was made -- I think that a nice solution was >>> proposed but my notes are deficient >>> >>> Reallocation of plugins >>> the suggestion to identify a core set of opcodes was >>> generally rejected >>> >>> interpolating 'exprand' and 'cauchy' >>> This is "just an opcode" and should be done soon >>> >>> Better string support >>> Hardly discussed >>> >>> Flexible position of UDO definitions in instr 0 >>> This was news to me at least; will investigate >>> >>> line numbers in parser >>> This is just a bug (and I think fixed in GIT now) >>> >>> scoped ftables? >>> This related to private tables; a number of suggestions were >>> made, and it will be more important with loadable code. >>> Steven and JPff to look further >>> >>> Open GL >>> this is proposed new family of opcodes. Michael showed that >>> it was all possible with LUA. >>> >>> GUI opcodes (Cabbage?) & can we decouple FLTK?? >>> There was support for using the Cabbage system and syntax >>> for >>> moving GUIs out of the core. But the FLTK opcodes are still >>> there and backward compatibility limits our scope for >>> change. >>> No conclusions >>> >>> better error messages in parser >>> This is very important. There are two aspects. One is to >>> make the messages clearer to the non-technical user, and the >>> other is give more specific errors. Steven has looked at >>> this but it proved not as easy as the documentation of bison >>> suggests. JPff offered to look as well --- actually I >>> worked >>> on this on the homeward journey and apart from one minor >>> error case it was a failure. However will make this high >>> priority >>> >>> sfz format >>> There was to be a talk from the Fluidsynth developers, and >>> so >>> it would be nice to get them to support it, and thus >>> piggy-back. >>> >>> more output channels >>> Possibly current state is acceptable. Needs to be kept in >>> line >>> >>> out reducing >>> Michael and JPff were discussing better ways of accumulating >>> the audio output, especially in multi-core. Worth more >>> investigation >>> >>> variable k-rates >>> Steven offered to circulate his partial code solution. JPff >>> remarked that the constant property of ksmps is used >>> throughout the code, and Victor commented on the (lack of) >>> interaction with external events >>> >>> CPU meter and per core? >>> There was a request for an opcode (now in GIT) >>> >>> debugger >>> JPff suggested that the new parser could be enhanced to >>> allow >>> probes throughout for debugging. Not high priority but >>> would >>> be nice >>> >>> Opcode GPUs >>> We should consider deployment of GPU opcodes (there is a >>> paper at ICMC on phase-vocoding on a GPGPU) but must still >>> keep "vanilla" hardware version >>> >>> Hetro made multi platform etc >>> Changing the hetro/adsyn file format should be done. Some >>> problems with retained analysis, but can be done >>> >>> UDO automatician >>> We discussed automatic loading of UDOs from a fixed >>> location. This would include adding names to -z options >>> >>> ------- >>> >>> These notes are from what I wrote and my poor memory. Others may >>> like >>> to correct and clarify >>> >>> ==John ffitch >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>> "unsubscribe csound" >>> >>> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/? >> group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >> "unsubscribe csound" >> >> > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 12:43
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Just to remind everyone that the command-line program is a frontend. Of course, without it, you can only use via the API. On 11 May 2011, at 12:35, Louis Cohen wrote: > But I disagree with your idea about shipping Csound without front > ends. I can't prove this because we have no survey data to back it > up, but I personally can't imagine using Csound without a front end. > I haven't used it from the command line in years except in rare > diagnostic instances. Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 12:44
From	Michael Rhoades
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	All, Just to chime in... I use a gui for Csound most of the time but when I have a particularly cpu intensive orc I use a stripped down linux box and work from command line to speed things up a bit. So I use both... Thanks to all for continued development of Csound... It is an awesome compositional paradigm. Michael http://www.perceptionfactory.com http://www.rhoadesfineart.com On 5/11/11 7:35 AM, Louis Cohen wrote: > Rory, > > I think all the ideas mentioned are really great and will make Csound > even better than it already is. > > But I disagree with your idea about shipping Csound without front > ends. I can't prove this because we have no survey data to back it up, > but I personally can't imagine using Csound without a front end. I > haven't used it from the command line in years except in rare > diagnostic instances. > > Just consider the way the world is moving -- even keyboards are going > to become rare as touch screens become more prevalent. > > For me the front end IS Csound. I'd be curious to hear what others say > about this. > > -Lou > > > On May 11, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Rory Walsh wrote: > >> I also made the point that I don't think Csound should be shipped with >> any frontend. I'm of the opinion that frontends such as Blue, >> QuteCsound, WinXound, future MacCsound's etc, should look after the >> installation and setup of Csound themselves, not the other way around. >> >> Rory. >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 12:44
From	peiman khosravi
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Yes, although I use WinXound as my main editor I don't see any problems with QuteCsound being shiped with the installer, as long as nothing is automatically installed (like the old front-ends were). Best, Peiman On 11 May 2011 12:39, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > I disagree. The OSX release of Csound includes QuteCsound, which makes life > easier for many users, at least that is what everyone has told me. > I have not had many (perhaps none) requests for removing it from the > release. > > Regards > > Victor > > On 11 May 2011, at 12:07, Rory Walsh wrote: > >> I also made the point that I don't think Csound should be shipped with >> any frontend. I'm of the opinion that frontends such as Blue, >> QuteCsound, WinXound, future MacCsound's etc, should look after the >> installation and setup of Csound themselves, not the other way around. >> >> Rory. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 11 May 2011 09:41, Andres Cabrera wrote: >>> >>> I'd like to help out with the array suggestion. I'll need a lot of >>> help with the parser, though... >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Andres >>> >>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:06 AM, john ffitch wrote: >>>> >>>> I am happy to agree with the comments about the Maynooth LAC; good >>>> company, some good music and some interesting presentations. >>>> >>>> As I suggested earlier, there were a significant number of developers >>>> at the meeting and we held a useful meeting with a number of users as >>>> well. >>>> >>>> Michael Gogins took detailed minutes, but as he is on vacation in >>>> Ireland for some days I thought i would present a very short summary. >>>> >>>> Following comments from the mailing list we discussed a number of >>>> topics and made some plans. In no special order.... >>>> >>>> Creation of instruments on the fly >>>> JPff to take this. Basically quite some work but not any >>>> major problems. No time scale suggested >>>> >>>> Steaming opcodes for LPC >>>> ...and we added the problem with silence in LPC. Victor >>>> offered to look into this >>>> >>>> unlimited p-fields >>>> This is unlikely to happen as there are internal technical >>>> problems; one solution would require a rewrite of every >>>> opcode. The request was noted >>>> >>>> Accuracy in cpspch and kin >>>> The is a documentation issue. There are accurate >>>> alternatives >>>> >>>> multithreading >>>> This is nearly done. At LAC we agreed top merge sources >>>> (which has been done). Still work to be done on software >>>> bus and load balancing >>>> >>>> Java wrapper for OS X (for the doubles version). >>>> Should be in the next release >>>> >>>> Patterns >>>> Possibly too hard at present. Some uncertainty as how it >>>> fits the Csound model >>>> >>>> Better table display >>>> Not really discussed (but see below) >>>> >>>> unit gen. interface to mySQL >>>> Short discussion that this was the kind of opcode that could >>>> be written when anyone has time. A clearer design of >>>> opcodes/args would be nice >>>> >>>> strings as p-fields in event opcodes >>>> JPff said that there was code for this, but it was shown that >>>> it did not work. JPff to look into it >>>> >>>> better precision but the rt midi >>>> I have no notes on this >>>> >>>> c-array style named table access for expressions & first-class arrays >>>> Very unlikely to happen soon as it is much too much work >>>> >>>> compiler >>>> We think this relates to the loadable code issue above >>>> >>>> standalone system >>>> Not discussed in detail >>>> >>>> revisit environment variables defaults >>>> Some progress was made -- I think that a nice solution was >>>> proposed but my notes are deficient >>>> >>>> Reallocation of plugins >>>> the suggestion to identify a core set of opcodes was >>>> generally rejected >>>> >>>> interpolating 'exprand' and 'cauchy' >>>> This is "just an opcode" and should be done soon >>>> >>>> Better string support >>>> Hardly discussed >>>> >>>> Flexible position of UDO definitions in instr 0 >>>> This was news to me at least; will investigate >>>> >>>> line numbers in parser >>>> This is just a bug (and I think fixed in GIT now) >>>> >>>> scoped ftables? >>>> This related to private tables; a number of suggestions were >>>> made, and it will be more important with loadable code. >>>> Steven and JPff to look further >>>> >>>> Open GL >>>> this is proposed new family of opcodes. Michael showed that >>>> it was all possible with LUA. >>>> >>>> GUI opcodes (Cabbage?) & can we decouple FLTK?? >>>> There was support for using the Cabbage system and syntax for >>>> moving GUIs out of the core. But the FLTK opcodes are still >>>> there and backward compatibility limits our scope for change. >>>> No conclusions >>>> >>>> better error messages in parser >>>> This is very important. There are two aspects. One is to >>>> make the messages clearer to the non-technical user, and the >>>> other is give more specific errors. Steven has looked at >>>> this but it proved not as easy as the documentation of bison >>>> suggests. JPff offered to look as well --- actually I worked >>>> on this on the homeward journey and apart from one minor >>>> error case it was a failure. However will make this high >>>> priority >>>> >>>> sfz format >>>> There was to be a talk from the Fluidsynth developers, and so >>>> it would be nice to get them to support it, and thus >>>> piggy-back. >>>> >>>> more output channels >>>> Possibly current state is acceptable. Needs to be kept in line >>>> >>>> out reducing >>>> Michael and JPff were discussing better ways of accumulating >>>> the audio output, especially in multi-core. Worth more >>>> investigation >>>> >>>> variable k-rates >>>> Steven offered to circulate his partial code solution. JPff >>>> remarked that the constant property of ksmps is used >>>> throughout the code, and Victor commented on the (lack of) >>>> interaction with external events >>>> >>>> CPU meter and per core? >>>> There was a request for an opcode (now in GIT) >>>> >>>> debugger >>>> JPff suggested that the new parser could be enhanced to allow >>>> probes throughout for debugging. Not high priority but would >>>> be nice >>>> >>>> Opcode GPUs >>>> We should consider deployment of GPU opcodes (there is a >>>> paper at ICMC on phase-vocoding on a GPGPU) but must still >>>> keep "vanilla" hardware version >>>> >>>> Hetro made multi platform etc >>>> Changing the hetro/adsyn file format should be done. Some >>>> problems with retained analysis, but can be done >>>> >>>> UDO automatician >>>> We discussed automatic loading of UDOs from a fixed >>>> location. This would include adding names to -z options >>>> >>>> ------- >>>> >>>> These notes are from what I wrote and my poor memory. Others may like >>>> to correct and clarify >>>> >>>> ==John ffitch >>>> >>>> >>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >>>> csound" >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >>> csound" >>> >>> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >> csound" >> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 13:01
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	First of all I'm not suggesting anyone start using Csound from the command line instead of a GUI frontend. I'm all for frontends, and I'm all for making things easier for end users! I'm merely suggesting that instead of Csound shipping with frontends/editors, frontends should be shipped with Csound. Users should only need to choose their frontend/editor of choice and that should look after everything else they need in order to get going. There are a lot of editors available for Csound, why don't they all ship with the installers? Because it would be a nightmare to maintain right? So instead we choose one editor, therefore pushing all other editors out of sight for most users. I'm not having a go at QuteCsound, both I and my students use it all the time. I'm simply saying that shipping an editor like this with Csound makes it very difficult for a developer of any other editor to make an impact on Csound users. I hope I'm making my point clearly, I don't want to come across as favouring one editor over another as that simply isn't the case. Rory. p.s. I'm sure everyone on this list is aware of the many of the great editors available, most beginners don't know anything outside of QuteCsound. I don't think this is fair on developers of other editors. Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 13:14
From	luis jure
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	on 2011-05-11 at 12:07 Rory Walsh wrote: >I also made the point that I don't think Csound should be shipped with >any frontend. I'm of the opinion that frontends such as Blue, >QuteCsound, WinXound, future MacCsound's etc, should look after the >installation and setup of Csound themselves, not the other way around. i completely agree with this. anyway, developers seem to think otherwise. Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 13:20
From	Louis Cohen
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Rory, I understand your point much better now. Hackles retracted! I certainly like the idea of choosing an editor/front end, and when I download it, I get all of csound. That fits my notion that the editor IS Csound. But what if I want to alternate between two editors. Could there be complications if I install Csound with each installation of a different editor? -Lou On May 11, 2011, at 8:01 AM, Rory Walsh wrote: > First of all I'm not suggesting anyone start using Csound from the > command line instead of a GUI frontend. I'm all for frontends, and I'm > all for making things easier for end users! I'm merely suggesting that > instead of Csound shipping with frontends/editors, frontends should be > shipped with Csound. Users should only need to choose their > frontend/editor of choice and that should look after everything else > they need in order to get going. There are a lot of editors available > for Csound, why don't they all ship with the installers? Because it > would be a nightmare to maintain right? So instead we choose one > editor, therefore pushing all other editors out of sight for most > users. I'm not having a go at QuteCsound, both I and my students use > it all the time. I'm simply saying that shipping an editor like this > with Csound makes it very difficult for a developer of any other > editor to make an impact on Csound users. I hope I'm making my point > clearly, I don't want to come across as favouring one editor over > another as that simply isn't the case. > > Rory. > > p.s. I'm sure everyone on this list is aware of the many of the great > editors available, most beginners don't know anything outside of > QuteCsound. I don't think this is fair on developers of other editors. > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 13:44
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	No, because each editor should do a simple check for Csound first. If Csound is present the editor doesn't download anything. If it's not already installed the editor should download and install it. On 11 May 2011 13:20, Louis Cohen wrote: > Rory, > > I understand your point much better now. Hackles retracted! > > I certainly like the idea of choosing an editor/front end, and when I > download it, I get all of csound. That fits my notion that the editor IS > Csound. > > But what if I want to alternate between two editors. Could there be > complications if I install Csound with each installation of a different > editor? > > -Lou > > On May 11, 2011, at 8:01 AM, Rory Walsh wrote: > >> First of all I'm not suggesting anyone start using Csound from the >> command line instead of a GUI frontend. I'm all for frontends, and I'm >> all for making things easier for end users! I'm merely suggesting that >> instead of Csound shipping with frontends/editors, frontends should be >> shipped with Csound. Users should only need to choose their >> frontend/editor of choice and that should look after everything else >> they need in order to get going. There are a lot of editors available >> for Csound, why don't they all ship with the installers? Because it >> would be a nightmare to maintain right? So instead we choose one >> editor, therefore pushing all other editors out of sight for most >> users. I'm not having a go at QuteCsound, both I and my students use >> it all the time. I'm simply saying that shipping an editor like this >> with Csound makes it very difficult for a developer of any other >> editor to make an impact on Csound users. I hope I'm making my point >> clearly, I don't want to come across as favouring one editor over >> another as that simply isn't the case. >> >> Rory. >> >> p.s. I'm sure everyone on this list is aware of the many of the great >> editors available, most beginners don't know anything outside of >> QuteCsound. I don't think this is fair on developers of other editors. >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >> csound" >> > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 13:47
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	As a packager, I have decided on QuteCsound for a few main reasons: 1) its main developer is a core csound developer, any issues are likely to be resolved more quickly 2) it uses the Csound 5 API, which means better integration with the core system 3) it is a straightforward editor + performance system (not a fully featured composition environment which would require learning a new software). We needed to ship a GUI frontend, so one had to be chosen. Victor On 11 May 2011, at 13:01, Rory Walsh wrote: > First of all I'm not suggesting anyone start using Csound from the > command line instead of a GUI frontend. I'm all for frontends, and I'm > all for making things easier for end users! I'm merely suggesting that > instead of Csound shipping with frontends/editors, frontends should be > shipped with Csound. Users should only need to choose their > frontend/editor of choice and that should look after everything else > they need in order to get going. There are a lot of editors available > for Csound, why don't they all ship with the installers? Because it > would be a nightmare to maintain right? So instead we choose one > editor, therefore pushing all other editors out of sight for most > users. I'm not having a go at QuteCsound, both I and my students use > it all the time. I'm simply saying that shipping an editor like this > with Csound makes it very difficult for a developer of any other > editor to make an impact on Csound users. I hope I'm making my point > clearly, I don't want to come across as favouring one editor over > another as that simply isn't the case. > > Rory. > > p.s. I'm sure everyone on this list is aware of the many of the great > editors available, most beginners don't know anything outside of > QuteCsound. I don't think this is fair on developers of other editors. > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 13:54
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Not that this is OSX only. Mike Gogins also decided to include it, for these or other reasons. Linux is a completely different story, where all components are in separate packages, so only the command-line frontend is in the csound package. Victor On 11 May 2011, at 13:47, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > As a packager, I have decided on QuteCsound for a few main reasons: > 1) its main developer is a core csound developer, any issues are > likely to be resolved more quickly 2) it uses the Csound 5 API, > which means better integration with the core system 3) it is a > straightforward editor + performance system (not a fully featured > composition environment which would require learning a new software). > > We needed to ship a GUI frontend, so one had to be chosen. > > Victor > > > On 11 May 2011, at 13:01, Rory Walsh wrote: > >> First of all I'm not suggesting anyone start using Csound from the >> command line instead of a GUI frontend. I'm all for frontends, and >> I'm >> all for making things easier for end users! I'm merely suggesting >> that >> instead of Csound shipping with frontends/editors, frontends should >> be >> shipped with Csound. Users should only need to choose their >> frontend/editor of choice and that should look after everything else >> they need in order to get going. There are a lot of editors available >> for Csound, why don't they all ship with the installers? Because it >> would be a nightmare to maintain right? So instead we choose one >> editor, therefore pushing all other editors out of sight for most >> users. I'm not having a go at QuteCsound, both I and my students use >> it all the time. I'm simply saying that shipping an editor like this >> with Csound makes it very difficult for a developer of any other >> editor to make an impact on Csound users. I hope I'm making my point >> clearly, I don't want to come across as favouring one editor over >> another as that simply isn't the case. >> >> Rory. >> >> p.s. I'm sure everyone on this list is aware of the many of the great >> editors available, most beginners don't know anything outside of >> QuteCsound. I don't think this is fair on developers of other >> editors. >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >> "unsubscribe csound" >> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 14:06
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	> As a packager, I have decided on QuteCsound for a few main reasons: 1) its > main developer is a core csound developer, any issues are likely to be I believe if other developers thought for a second that their frontends had a chance of being distributed with Csound it would encourage them to do more work on the core csound system. > resolved more quickly 2) it uses the Csound 5 API, which means better > integration with the core system I only know of one editor that doesn't use the Csound 5 API so I'm not sure this is relevant. 3) it is a straightforward editor + > performance system (not a fully featured composition environment which would > require learning a new software). It's not the only one. > We needed to ship a GUI frontend, so one had to be chosen. That's because in the past we've always insisted on end-users downloading Csound packages. I believe we should be encouraging users to simply download their frontend of choice. Rory. Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 14:06
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	shipping frontends (was Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC)
	Shipping a frontend to Csound is essential to allow users a smooth introduction to the system. When you search for Csound, you get the Sourceforge download page for it, not a frontend page. Unless we stop distributing Csound directly, this is what happens. A user picks it up, sees no GUI application and forgets it. Frontends are free to check for csound, updates, whatever. Advertise their wares, do anything to push their own software. But as a packager (not as a developer), I need to provide a useful set of tools for people to interact with the system. I also need to be sensitive to the average OSX user, who has a different profile to the average Linux user. There is nothing in this stopping other frontend developers doing their work. Victor On 11 May 2011, at 13:14, luis jure wrote: > > on 2011-05-11 at 12:07 Rory Walsh wrote: > >> I also made the point that I don't think Csound should be shipped >> with >> any frontend. I'm of the opinion that frontends such as Blue, >> QuteCsound, WinXound, future MacCsound's etc, should look after the >> installation and setup of Csound themselves, not the other way >> around. > > i completely agree with this. anyway, developers seem to think > otherwise. > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 14:12
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	As soon as it was decided to use a particular editor with one installer it had to go into the other installers in order to maintain consistency across platforms (linux as you mentioned is different). That's a good thing. Rory. On 11 May 2011 13:54, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Not that this is OSX only. Mike Gogins also decided to include it, for these > or other reasons. Linux is a completely different story, where > all components are in separate packages, so only the command-line frontend > is in the csound package. > > Victor > On 11 May 2011, at 13:47, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > >> As a packager, I have decided on QuteCsound for a few main reasons: 1) its >> main developer is a core csound developer, any issues are likely to be >> resolved more quickly 2) it uses the Csound 5 API, which means better >> integration with the core system 3) it is a straightforward editor + >> performance system (not a fully featured composition environment which would >> require learning a new software). >> >> We needed to ship a GUI frontend, so one had to be chosen. >> >> Victor >> >> >> On 11 May 2011, at 13:01, Rory Walsh wrote: >> >>> First of all I'm not suggesting anyone start using Csound from the >>> command line instead of a GUI frontend. I'm all for frontends, and I'm >>> all for making things easier for end users! I'm merely suggesting that >>> instead of Csound shipping with frontends/editors, frontends should be >>> shipped with Csound. Users should only need to choose their >>> frontend/editor of choice and that should look after everything else >>> they need in order to get going. There are a lot of editors available >>> for Csound, why don't they all ship with the installers? Because it >>> would be a nightmare to maintain right? So instead we choose one >>> editor, therefore pushing all other editors out of sight for most >>> users. I'm not having a go at QuteCsound, both I and my students use >>> it all the time. I'm simply saying that shipping an editor like this >>> with Csound makes it very difficult for a developer of any other >>> editor to make an impact on Csound users. I hope I'm making my point >>> clearly, I don't want to come across as favouring one editor over >>> another as that simply isn't the case. >>> >>> Rory. >>> >>> p.s. I'm sure everyone on this list is aware of the many of the great >>> editors available, most beginners don't know anything outside of >>> QuteCsound. I don't think this is fair on developers of other editors. >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >>> csound" >>> >> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini >> Senior Lecturer >> Dept. of Music >> NUI Maynooth Ireland >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >> csound" >> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 14:15
From	peiman khosravi
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	I once suggested on the list that WinXound be distributed with Csound because I think it is the simplest editor and does not require any learning curve. It works with float and doubles version equally (being command-line based) without requiring a separate build for each. If I were a beginner I would be a little confused by QuteCsound's widget window. And the fact that it uses the api means it may be prone to crashes when Csound crashes. QuteCsound is a powerful tools for creating UI but I don't agree that it is a simple editor. Not as simple editors go anyway. Having said that I remember that Stefano mentioned that he prefers to distribute WinXound separately. So there you go. Best, Peiman On 11/05/2011 13:54, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Not that this is OSX only. Mike Gogins also decided to include it, for > these or other reasons. Linux is a completely different story, where > all components are in separate packages, so only the command-line > frontend is in the csound package. > > Victor > On 11 May 2011, at 13:47, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > >> As a packager, I have decided on QuteCsound for a few main reasons: >> 1) its main developer is a core csound developer, any issues are >> likely to be resolved more quickly 2) it uses the Csound 5 API, which >> means better integration with the core system 3) it is a >> straightforward editor + performance system (not a fully featured >> composition environment which would require learning a new software). >> >> We needed to ship a GUI frontend, so one had to be chosen. >> >> Victor >> >> >> On 11 May 2011, at 13:01, Rory Walsh wrote: >> >>> First of all I'm not suggesting anyone start using Csound from the >>> command line instead of a GUI frontend. I'm all for frontends, and I'm >>> all for making things easier for end users! I'm merely suggesting that >>> instead of Csound shipping with frontends/editors, frontends should be >>> shipped with Csound. Users should only need to choose their >>> frontend/editor of choice and that should look after everything else >>> they need in order to get going. There are a lot of editors available >>> for Csound, why don't they all ship with the installers? Because it >>> would be a nightmare to maintain right? So instead we choose one >>> editor, therefore pushing all other editors out of sight for most >>> users. I'm not having a go at QuteCsound, both I and my students use >>> it all the time. I'm simply saying that shipping an editor like this >>> with Csound makes it very difficult for a developer of any other >>> editor to make an impact on Csound users. I hope I'm making my point >>> clearly, I don't want to come across as favouring one editor over >>> another as that simply isn't the case. >>> >>> Rory. >>> >>> p.s. I'm sure everyone on this list is aware of the many of the great >>> editors available, most beginners don't know anything outside of >>> QuteCsound. I don't think this is fair on developers of other editors. >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>> "unsubscribe csound" >>> >> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini >> Senior Lecturer >> Dept. of Music >> NUI Maynooth Ireland >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >> "unsubscribe csound" >> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 14:19
From	Steven Yi
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	This is my memory of the conversation as well. The work is fairly simple and I'm happy to volunteer to do it, the only concern I have is the next release, we'll have to make sure the older opcode libs that get relocated back into core are removed from the installation target's OPCODEDIR so that they don't try to get loaded. On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > My memory of this is that we would rellocate everything but the opcodes with > external dependencies. Or did we decide something else? > > Victor > On 11 May 2011, at 07:06, john ffitch wrote: > >> Reallocation of plugins >> the suggestion to identify a core set of opcodes was >> generally rejected > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 14:19
From	Nil Geisweiller
Subject	Re: shipping frontends (was Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC)
	On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Shipping a frontend to Csound is essential to allow users a smooth > introduction to the system. When you search for Csound, you get the > Sourceforge download page for it, not a frontend page. Unless we stop > distributing Csound directly, this is what happens. A user picks it up, sees > no GUI application and forgets it. I tend to agree with that. > > Frontends are free to check for csound, updates, whatever. Advertise their > wares, do anything to push their own software. > But as a packager (not as a developer), I need to provide a useful set of > tools for people to interact with the system. I also need to be sensitive to > the average OSX user, who has a different profile to the average Linux user. > There is nothing in this stopping other frontend developers doing their > work. Although I'm a Linux user, I actually learned csound with qutecsound because of its cool tutorials. And only then switched back to emacs once I knew enough, and now looking at Blue. Nil > > Victor > > On 11 May 2011, at 13:14, luis jure wrote: > >> >> on 2011-05-11 at 12:07 Rory Walsh wrote: >> >>> I also made the point that I don't think Csound should be shipped with >>> any frontend. I'm of the opinion that frontends such as Blue, >>> QuteCsound, WinXound, future MacCsound's etc, should look after the >>> installation and setup of Csound themselves, not the other way around. >> >> i completely agree with this. anyway, developers seem to think otherwise. >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >> csound" >> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 14:36
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: shipping frontends (was Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC)
	> Sourceforge download page for it, not a frontend page. Unless we stop > distributing Csound directly Now you're starting to get the idea. I'd say 90% of users, and mostly likely 99.9% of new users don't use Csound directly, i.e., from the command line, so why should we distribute it directly? Why can't users simply download and install QuteCsound, simple as. It would make the whole process a lot simpler. Csound packages would just contain the essentials and nothing else. Those preparing packages wouldn't have to worry about building the latest release of whatever frontend is out there. Because most frontends are relatively new they are being developed at a much quick pace than Csound. New features are being added all the time but don't appear in Csound until a new Csound release comes along. Having the frontend look after Csound means users can be certain that BOTH systems are always up to date. I know this may seem kind of a radical idea but I think with the move towards Csound 6 we should be thinking about this. One final point. The two people arguing about this, you and I, don't write or maintain a Csound editor! I'd love to hear what Steven, Stefano, Andres and Matt think about this. Rory. p.s. the link to the earlier thread is here : http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Some-remarks-on-LAC-td4386526.html > no GUI application and forgets it. > > Frontends are free to check for csound, updates, whatever. Advertise their > wares, do anything to push their own software. > But as a packager (not as a developer), I need to provide a useful set of > tools for people to interact with the system. I also need to be sensitive to > the average OSX user, who has a different profile to the average Linux user. > There is nothing in this stopping other frontend developers doing their > work. > > Victor > > On 11 May 2011, at 13:14, luis jure wrote: > >> >> on 2011-05-11 at 12:07 Rory Walsh wrote: >> >>> I also made the point that I don't think Csound should be shipped with >>> any frontend. I'm of the opinion that frontends such as Blue, >>> QuteCsound, WinXound, future MacCsound's etc, should look after the >>> installation and setup of Csound themselves, not the other way around. >> >> i completely agree with this. anyway, developers seem to think otherwise. >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >> csound" >> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 14:53
From	Adam
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	On Thursday 12 May 2011 00:54:22 Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Not that this is OSX only. Mike Gogins also decided to include it, for > these or other reasons. Linux is a completely different story, where > all components are in separate packages, so only the command-line > frontend is in the csound package. > > Victor > > On 11 May 2011, at 13:47, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > > As a packager, I have decided on QuteCsound for a few main reasons: > > 1) its main developer is a core csound developer, any issues are > > likely to be resolved more quickly 2) it uses the Csound 5 API, > > which means better integration with the core system 3) it is a > > straightforward editor + performance system (not a fully featured > > composition environment which would require learning a new software). > > > > We needed to ship a GUI frontend, so one had to be chosen. Maybe its the older Csound 5.11 package I installed due to Mandriva Linux packaging issues. I never tried the Ubuntu binary of 5.13, and had trouble building 5.13. But the Csound5GUI was included with that 5.11 package. That was the first place I went after using the command-line for a short time. Csound5GUI was a great simple frontend for us basic users. I'm sorry its no longer included, as it fits well items 1 & 3 above. Surmulot, although it involves downloading ~90MB of package, works 'out of the box', and often suits us Emacs people on Linux. This is an interesting discussion. Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 14:59
From	jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Just to record that I never use csound other than from the command line. I have no interest in gui frontends. And on behalf of our blind and visually impared users may I state that commandline use is important, or even essential. Personally I would be happy to have csound distributed as part of a front end as long as I can build a workable version drivable by make ==John ff (from deep left field) Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 17:25
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	On 11 May 2011, at 14:06, Rory Walsh wrote: >> As a packager, I have decided on QuteCsound for a few main reasons: >> 1) its >> main developer is a core csound developer, any issues are likely to >> be > > I believe if other developers thought for a second that their > frontends had a chance of being distributed with Csound it would > encourage them to do more work on the core csound system. Not sure about that. We have not had requests from anyone to join the core team. > >> resolved more quickly 2) it uses the Csound 5 API, which means better >> integration with the core system > > I only know of one editor that doesn't use the Csound 5 API so I'm not > sure this is relevant. There is more than one that doesn't. Actually QuteCsound is the only with all the attributes I required as a packager. > 3) it is a straightforward editor + >> performance system (not a fully featured composition environment >> which would >> require learning a new software). > > It's not the only one. See above. > >> We needed to ship a GUI frontend, so one had to be chosen. > > That's because in the past we've always insisted on end-users > downloading Csound packages. I believe we should be encouraging users > to simply download their frontend of choice. That won't work at all. I give some of the reasons in a follow up e- mail. > > Rory. > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 17:54
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	>> That's because in the past we've always insisted on end-users >> downloading Csound packages. I believe we should be encouraging users >> to simply download their frontend of choice. > > That won't work at all. I give some of the reasons in a follow up e-mail. Perhaps you could let me know why it "can't" work, is there a technical reason why frontends can communicate with sourceforge and make sure the latest Csound is installed? No one is disputing how good QuteCsound it is. Here's the problem. I have students that see me using QuteCsound/WinXound. They do a search for it at home, find it and install it but it doesn't work because they also need to have Csound installed. This is the real PITA. Most of my students don't know anything about back-ends, front-ends, middle-ends or rear-ends! They just see users using a GUI software and assume that's all they need. I teach about 60-70 undergrad students each year and it's always the same problem. I downloaded QuteCsound but it doesn't work? Rory. Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 18:02
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Quoting myself: "Shipping a frontend to Csound is essential to allow users a smooth introduction to the system. When you search for Csound, you get the Sourceforge download page for it, not a frontend page. Unless we stop distributing Csound directly, this is what happens. A user picks it up, sees no GUI application and forgets it." I am sure you've heard the complaint, oh csound was good but it's an outdated command-line application. I am not arguing the correctness of the remark, but perception is all you have when you are trying to reach out to new users. We can argue this until the cows come home. My argument is simple: if it ain't broken... Victor On 11 May 2011, at 17:54, Rory Walsh wrote: >>> That's because in the past we've always insisted on end-users >>> downloading Csound packages. I believe we should be encouraging >>> users >>> to simply download their frontend of choice. >> >> That won't work at all. I give some of the reasons in a follow up e- >> mail. > > Perhaps you could let me know why it "can't" work, is there a > technical reason why frontends can communicate with sourceforge and > make sure the latest Csound is installed? No one is disputing how good > QuteCsound it is. Here's the problem. I have students that see me > using QuteCsound/WinXound. They do a search for it at home, find it > and install it but it doesn't work because they also need to have > Csound installed. This is the real PITA. Most of my students don't > know anything about back-ends, front-ends, middle-ends or rear-ends! > They just see users using a GUI software and assume that's all they > need. I teach about 60-70 undergrad students each year and it's always > the same problem. I downloaded QuteCsound but it doesn't work? > > Rory. > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 18:18
From	Michael Gogins
Subject	Re: shipping frontends (was Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC)
	The simpler for the user, the better. For most beginners, and all users are beginners to start, it is simpler to download an installer or a meta-package and be able to run QuteCsound out of the box. On Linux the more experienced users already have a choice of what to install. Regards, Mike On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Rory Walsh <rorywalsh@ear.ie> wrote: > Sourceforge download page for it, not a frontend page. Unless we stop > distributing Csound directly Now you're starting to get the idea. I'd say 90% of users, and mostly likely 99.9% of new users don't use Csound directly, i.e., from the command line, so why should we distribute it directly? Why can't users simply download and install QuteCsound, simple as. It would make the whole process a lot simpler. Csound packages would just contain the essentials and nothing else. Those preparing packages wouldn't have to worry about building the latest release of whatever frontend is out there. Because most frontends are relatively new they are being developed at a much quick pace than Csound. New features are being added all the time but don't appear in Csound until a new Csound release comes along. Having the frontend look after Csound means users can be certain that BOTH systems are always up to date. I know this may seem kind of a radical idea but I think with the move towards Csound 6 we should be thinking about this. One final point. The two people arguing about this, you and I, don't write or maintain a Csound editor! I'd love to hear what Steven, Stefano, Andres and Matt think about this. Rory. p.s. the link to the earlier thread is here : http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Some-remarks-on-LAC-td4386526.html > no GUI application and forgets it. > > Frontends are free to check for csound, updates, whatever. Advertise their > wares, do anything to push their own software. > But as a packager (not as a developer), I need to provide a useful set of > tools for people to interact with the system. I also need to be sensitive to > the average OSX user, who has a different profile to the average Linux user. > There is nothing in this stopping other frontend developers doing their > work. > > Victor > > On 11 May 2011, at 13:14, luis jure wrote: > >> >> on 2011-05-11 at 12:07 Rory Walsh wrote: >> >>> I also made the point that I don't think Csound should be shipped with >>> any frontend. I'm of the opinion that frontends such as Blue, >>> QuteCsound, WinXound, future MacCsound's etc, should look after the >>> installation and setup of Csound themselves, not the other way around. >> >> i completely agree with this. anyway, developers seem to think otherwise. >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >> csound" >> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" -- Michael Gogins Irreducible Productions http://www.michael-gogins.com Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

Date	2011-05-11 18:38
From	Stéphane Rollandin
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	> So instead we choose one > editor, therefore pushing all other editors out of sight for most > users. I'm not having a go at QuteCsound, both I and my students use > it all the time. I'm simply saying that shipping an editor like this > with Csound makes it very difficult for a developer of any other > editor to make an impact on Csound users. Also, it can make people think their QuteCsound-based GUI will work everywhere, which is not the case. And backward compatibility may be lost if QuteCsound stops to be maintained at some point. We need a cross-editor GUI specification. Stef Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 18:47
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	We are not choosing one editor. We (on OSX and Windows) are distributing one editor, which to be best of my knowledge works on Linux, OSX and Windows. A widget spec is a completely different issue and that has nothing to do with what has been suggested (not distributing QuteCsound with Csound). I am all for a cross-frontend spec. Victor On 11 May 2011, at 18:38, Stéphane Rollandin wrote: >> So instead we choose one >> editor, therefore pushing all other editors out of sight for most >> users. I'm not having a go at QuteCsound, both I and my students use >> it all the time. I'm simply saying that shipping an editor like this >> with Csound makes it very difficult for a developer of any other >> editor to make an impact on Csound users. > > Also, it can make people think their QuteCsound-based GUI will work > everywhere, which is not the case. And backward compatibility may be > lost if QuteCsound stops to be maintained at some point. We need a > cross-editor GUI specification. > > Stef > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 19:00
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	You didn't need to quote yourself, I read your earlier post. I just don't think it's a valid argument!, websites can easily be changed. On 11 May 2011 18:02, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Quoting myself: > > "Shipping a frontend to Csound is essential to allow users a smooth > introduction to the system. When you search for Csound, you get the > Sourceforge download page for it, not a frontend page. Unless we stop > distributing Csound directly, this is what happens. A user picks it up, sees > no GUI application and forgets it." > > I am sure you've heard the complaint, oh csound was good but it's an > outdated command-line application. I am not arguing the correctness of the > remark, but perception is all you have when you are trying to reach out to > new users. > > We can argue this until the cows come home. My argument is simple: if it > ain't broken... > > Victor > > > On 11 May 2011, at 17:54, Rory Walsh wrote: > >>>> That's because in the past we've always insisted on end-users >>>> downloading Csound packages. I believe we should be encouraging users >>>> to simply download their frontend of choice. >>> >>> That won't work at all. I give some of the reasons in a follow up e-mail. >> >> Perhaps you could let me know why it "can't" work, is there a >> technical reason why frontends can communicate with sourceforge and >> make sure the latest Csound is installed? No one is disputing how good >> QuteCsound it is. Here's the problem. I have students that see me >> using QuteCsound/WinXound. They do a search for it at home, find it >> and install it but it doesn't work because they also need to have >> Csound installed. This is the real PITA. Most of my students don't >> know anything about back-ends, front-ends, middle-ends or rear-ends! >> They just see users using a GUI software and assume that's all they >> need. I teach about 60-70 undergrad students each year and it's always >> the same problem. I downloaded QuteCsound but it doesn't work? >> >> Rory. >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >> csound" >> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 19:06
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	I am not talking about websites being changed. When a user learns there is a software called Csound, s/he will search for Csound, will get the sourceforge page, download it and think it does not fit his/ her idea of what a program should be. When asked about it by a friend, s/he will report that it didn't work. Bah, free software, doesn't work. Or worse, it's not as good as SC3 or PD. Victor On 11 May 2011, at 19:00, Rory Walsh wrote: > You didn't need to quote yourself, I read your earlier post. I just > don't think it's a valid argument!, websites can easily be changed. > > > On 11 May 2011 18:02, Victor Lazzarini > wrote: >> Quoting myself: >> >> "Shipping a frontend to Csound is essential to allow users a smooth >> introduction to the system. When you search for Csound, you get the >> Sourceforge download page for it, not a frontend page. Unless we stop >> distributing Csound directly, this is what happens. A user picks it >> up, sees >> no GUI application and forgets it." >> >> I am sure you've heard the complaint, oh csound was good but it's an >> outdated command-line application. I am not arguing the correctness >> of the >> remark, but perception is all you have when you are trying to reach >> out to >> new users. >> >> We can argue this until the cows come home. My argument is simple: >> if it >> ain't broken... >> >> Victor >> >> >> On 11 May 2011, at 17:54, Rory Walsh wrote: >> >>>>> That's because in the past we've always insisted on end-users >>>>> downloading Csound packages. I believe we should be encouraging >>>>> users >>>>> to simply download their frontend of choice. >>>> >>>> That won't work at all. I give some of the reasons in a follow up >>>> e-mail. >>> >>> Perhaps you could let me know why it "can't" work, is there a >>> technical reason why frontends can communicate with sourceforge and >>> make sure the latest Csound is installed? No one is disputing how >>> good >>> QuteCsound it is. Here's the problem. I have students that see me >>> using QuteCsound/WinXound. They do a search for it at home, find it >>> and install it but it doesn't work because they also need to have >>> Csound installed. This is the real PITA. Most of my students don't >>> know anything about back-ends, front-ends, middle-ends or rear-ends! >>> They just see users using a GUI software and assume that's all they >>> need. I teach about 60-70 undergrad students each year and it's >>> always >>> the same problem. I downloaded QuteCsound but it doesn't work? >>> >>> Rory. >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/? >>> group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>> "unsubscribe >>> csound" >>> >> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini >> Senior Lecturer >> Dept. of Music >> NUI Maynooth Ireland >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >> "unsubscribe >> csound" >> >> > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 19:09
From	Bernardo Barros
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Why not to make the default download link shipped with QuteCsound? SuperCollider is more or less like this on OSX, shiped with SCapp. If there were a good cross-platform IDE (as QuteCSound is) I'm 100% sure they would ship it on all platforms as default. Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 19:10
From	Stéphane Rollandin
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	>A widget spec is a completely different issue > and that has nothing to do with what has been suggested (not > distributing QuteCsound with Csound). I kind of disagree. Please do not think I'm critisizing anything in what you do or in QuteCsound. For myself I do not care much about what's distributed with csound (although I would like a plain zip, blah, blah, old story). What I'm saying is that some people do at times, on this very list, share their CSD relying on a QuteCsound interface thinking everybody can play with it, and it is not the case. I do not have QuteCsound installed, so when I see here a CSD requiring it, well it's just lost for me. So distributing QuteCsound with Csound has at least the effect of making people think it's a standard, which it is not. In that sense the issue is indeed related to the needed common GUI spec format. Best, Stef Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 19:15
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	If that is the case, then we should be discussing this, which is wrong at the moment and needs fixing, not what should bundled or not with Csound, which is working (to the best of my knowledge, given the reports I have had on OSX). Let's not waste time on something that is not a real issue. On 11 May 2011, at 19:10, Stéphane Rollandin wrote: > In that sense the issue is indeed related to the needed common GUI > spec format. Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 19:29
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	There doesn't seem to be much point in continuing this argument :( Rory. On 11 May 2011 19:06, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > I am not talking about websites being changed. When a user learns there is a > software called Csound, s/he will search for Csound, will > get the sourceforge page, download it and think it does not fit his/her idea > of what a program should be. When asked about it by a friend, > s/he will report that it didn't work. Bah, free software, doesn't work. Or > worse, it's not as good as SC3 or PD. > > Victor > On 11 May 2011, at 19:00, Rory Walsh wrote: > >> You didn't need to quote yourself, I read your earlier post. I just >> don't think it's a valid argument!, websites can easily be changed. >> >> >> On 11 May 2011 18:02, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>> >>> Quoting myself: >>> >>> "Shipping a frontend to Csound is essential to allow users a smooth >>> introduction to the system. When you search for Csound, you get the >>> Sourceforge download page for it, not a frontend page. Unless we stop >>> distributing Csound directly, this is what happens. A user picks it up, >>> sees >>> no GUI application and forgets it." >>> >>> I am sure you've heard the complaint, oh csound was good but it's an >>> outdated command-line application. I am not arguing the correctness of >>> the >>> remark, but perception is all you have when you are trying to reach out >>> to >>> new users. >>> >>> We can argue this until the cows come home. My argument is simple: if it >>> ain't broken... >>> >>> Victor >>> >>> >>> On 11 May 2011, at 17:54, Rory Walsh wrote: >>> >>>>>> That's because in the past we've always insisted on end-users >>>>>> downloading Csound packages. I believe we should be encouraging users >>>>>> to simply download their frontend of choice. >>>>> >>>>> That won't work at all. I give some of the reasons in a follow up >>>>> e-mail. >>>> >>>> Perhaps you could let me know why it "can't" work, is there a >>>> technical reason why frontends can communicate with sourceforge and >>>> make sure the latest Csound is installed? No one is disputing how good >>>> QuteCsound it is. Here's the problem. I have students that see me >>>> using QuteCsound/WinXound. They do a search for it at home, find it >>>> and install it but it doesn't work because they also need to have >>>> Csound installed. This is the real PITA. Most of my students don't >>>> know anything about back-ends, front-ends, middle-ends or rear-ends! >>>> They just see users using a GUI software and assume that's all they >>>> need. I teach about 60-70 undergrad students each year and it's always >>>> the same problem. I downloaded QuteCsound but it doesn't work? >>>> >>>> Rory. >>>> >>>> >>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >>>> csound" >>>> >>> >>> Dr Victor Lazzarini >>> Senior Lecturer >>> Dept. of Music >>> NUI Maynooth Ireland >>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >>> csound" >>> >>> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >> csound" >> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 19:32
From	Andres Cabrera
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Hi Stephane, I think this is an important issue. For QuteCsound I initially implemented MacCsound's widget format, but since it is not extensible, I decided to implement another format (although MacCsound's format is still supported both for loading and saving). I designed an XML format based on the format used by blue. At that time I requested comments and received a few. I left a period of several moths before I actually implemented it, to leave plenty of time for ideas and suggestions. In hindsight, it might have been better to implement a more human readable format like the one cabbage uses, but I was hoping to provide integration with blue, but after several chats with Steven, we came to the conclusion that it was not practical to interchange files between our programs since their paradigms are so different. The widget format spec I am using is here: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/qutecsound/index.php?title=Xml_Widget_Format There are actually even a few things I haven't got around to implementing. Recently there was discussion of developing a unified widget format which would be read by Csound and which would have API functions. This would make the widgets independent of the frontend and would enable interesting possibilities. The ideas are here: https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/csound/index.php?title=RFC_2-Widget_API Cheers, Andres 2011/5/11 Stéphane Rollandin : >>A widget spec is a completely different issue >> >> and that has nothing to do with what has been suggested (not >> distributing QuteCsound with Csound). > > I kind of disagree. Please do not think I'm critisizing anything in what you > do or in QuteCsound. For myself I do not care much about what's distributed > with csound (although I would like a plain zip, blah, blah, old story). What > I'm saying is that some people do at times, on this very list, share their > CSD relying on a QuteCsound interface thinking everybody can play with it, > and it is not the case. I do not have QuteCsound installed, so when I see > here a CSD requiring it, well it's just lost for me. So distributing > QuteCsound with Csound has at least the effect of making people think it's a > standard, which it is not. In that sense the issue is indeed related to the > needed common GUI spec format. > > Best, > > > Stef > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 19:57
From	Stéphane Rollandin
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Le 11/05/2011 20:32, Andres Cabrera a écrit : > Hi Stephane, > > I think this is an important issue. > For QuteCsound I initially implemented MacCsound's widget format, but > since it is not extensible, I decided to implement another format > (although MacCsound's format is still supported both for loading and > saving). I designed an XML format based on the format used by blue. At > that time I requested comments and received a few. I left a period of > several moths before I actually implemented it, to leave plenty of > time for ideas and suggestions. In hindsight, it might have been > better to implement a more human readable format like the one cabbage > uses, but I was hoping to provide integration with blue, but after > several chats with Steven, we came to the conclusion that it was not > practical to interchange files between our programs since their > paradigms are so different. Yes I remember most of this. > The widget format spec I am using is here: > http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/qutecsound/index.php?title=Xml_Widget_Format > > There are actually even a few things I haven't got around to implementing. > > Recently there was discussion of developing a unified widget format > which would be read by Csound and which would have API functions. This > would make the widgets independent of the frontend and would enable > interesting possibilities. The ideas are here: > https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/csound/index.php?title=RFC_2-Widget_API Thanks for the pointers. My position as a developer is that I'm not much interested in defining the format per se (something I don't feel I would be good at, especially because I very rarely use Csound in real-time), but once one is agreed upon I will have Csound-x and Surmulot follow it. So I'm a bit passive at the moment but definitely interested in seeing this done. Now I think the format should be discussed here or on csound-dev so that the process is transparent and the discussion open to everyone. Best, Stef Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 20:16
From	Stéphane Rollandin
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	> Recently there was discussion of developing a unified widget format > which would be read by Csound and which would have API functions. This > would make the widgets independent of the frontend and would enable > interesting possibilities. The ideas are here: > https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/csound/index.php?title=RFC_2-Widget_API This looks good. Where did that discussion happen ? I think I missed it. Stef Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 20:17
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	on this list I believe.. 2011/5/11 Stéphane Rollandin : >> Recently there was discussion of developing a unified widget format >> which would be read by Csound and which would have API functions. This >> would make the widgets independent of the frontend and would enable >> interesting possibilities. The ideas are here: >> >> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/csound/index.php?title=RFC_2-Widget_API > > This looks good. Where did that discussion happen ? I think I missed it. > > Stef > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 20:27
From	Stéphane Rollandin
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	> on this list I believe.. doh. Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 21:15
From	joachim heintz
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	I agree, and I think Csound should ship together with QuteCsound. But what are the objections to include WinXound, too? It's also a great frontend, and I see two advantages in distributing both, QCS and WXS: 1) As there were some issues with QCS on Windows in the past (or are perhaps still), it is good to have another choice. So the user can see that it's not a Csound issue but a frontend issue. 2) If the user sees two frontends in the package (and perhaps a very short description), he/she will understand much better the general concept of Csound (one audio engine, multiple frontends). So not so much problems in thinking that the QCS widgets can be executed by any Csound. In any case, I think Rory's suggestion that the frontends should check if csound is on the machine, and suggest the proper installation if not, is very good. joachim Am 11.05.2011 20:06, schrieb Victor Lazzarini: > I am not talking about websites being changed. When a user learns there > is a software called Csound, s/he will search for Csound, will > get the sourceforge page, download it and think it does not fit his/her > idea of what a program should be. When asked about it by a friend, > s/he will report that it didn't work. Bah, free software, doesn't work. > Or worse, it's not as good as SC3 or PD. > > Victor > On 11 May 2011, at 19:00, Rory Walsh wrote: > >> You didn't need to quote yourself, I read your earlier post. I just >> don't think it's a valid argument!, websites can easily be changed. >> >> >> On 11 May 2011 18:02, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>> Quoting myself: >>> >>> "Shipping a frontend to Csound is essential to allow users a smooth >>> introduction to the system. When you search for Csound, you get the >>> Sourceforge download page for it, not a frontend page. Unless we stop >>> distributing Csound directly, this is what happens. A user picks it >>> up, sees >>> no GUI application and forgets it." >>> >>> I am sure you've heard the complaint, oh csound was good but it's an >>> outdated command-line application. I am not arguing the correctness >>> of the >>> remark, but perception is all you have when you are trying to reach >>> out to >>> new users. >>> >>> We can argue this until the cows come home. My argument is simple: if it >>> ain't broken... >>> >>> Victor >>> >>> >>> On 11 May 2011, at 17:54, Rory Walsh wrote: >>> >>>>>> That's because in the past we've always insisted on end-users >>>>>> downloading Csound packages. I believe we should be encouraging users >>>>>> to simply download their frontend of choice. >>>>> >>>>> That won't work at all. I give some of the reasons in a follow up >>>>> e-mail. >>>> >>>> Perhaps you could let me know why it "can't" work, is there a >>>> technical reason why frontends can communicate with sourceforge and >>>> make sure the latest Csound is installed? No one is disputing how good >>>> QuteCsound it is. Here's the problem. I have students that see me >>>> using QuteCsound/WinXound. They do a search for it at home, find it >>>> and install it but it doesn't work because they also need to have >>>> Csound installed. This is the real PITA. Most of my students don't >>>> know anything about back-ends, front-ends, middle-ends or rear-ends! >>>> They just see users using a GUI software and assume that's all they >>>> need. I teach about 60-70 undergrad students each year and it's always >>>> the same problem. I downloaded QuteCsound but it doesn't work? >>>> >>>> Rory. >>>> >>>> >>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>>> "unsubscribe >>>> csound" >>>> >>> >>> Dr Victor Lazzarini >>> Senior Lecturer >>> Dept. of Music >>> NUI Maynooth Ireland >>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >>> csound" >>> >>> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >> "unsubscribe csound" >> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 21:20
From	peiman khosravi
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	On 11/05/2011 21:15, joachim heintz wrote: > I agree, and I think Csound should ship together with QuteCsound. > But what are the objections to include WinXound, too? It's also a great > frontend, and I see two advantages in distributing both, QCS and WXS: And of course QCS can be launched from inside WXD too. So the two are already sort of integrated. Joachim, after seeing what you have done in QCS I am going to start using it more and more. Best, Peiman > 1) As there were some issues with QCS on Windows in the past (or are > perhaps still), it is good to have another choice. So the user can see > that it's not a Csound issue but a frontend issue. > 2) If the user sees two frontends in the package (and perhaps a very > short description), he/she will understand much better the general > concept of Csound (one audio engine, multiple frontends). So not so much > problems in thinking that the QCS widgets can be executed by any Csound. > In any case, I think Rory's suggestion that the frontends should check > if csound is on the machine, and suggest the proper installation if not, > is very good. > > joachim > > > > Am 11.05.2011 20:06, schrieb Victor Lazzarini: >> I am not talking about websites being changed. When a user learns there >> is a software called Csound, s/he will search for Csound, will >> get the sourceforge page, download it and think it does not fit his/her >> idea of what a program should be. When asked about it by a friend, >> s/he will report that it didn't work. Bah, free software, doesn't work. >> Or worse, it's not as good as SC3 or PD. >> >> Victor >> On 11 May 2011, at 19:00, Rory Walsh wrote: >> >>> You didn't need to quote yourself, I read your earlier post. I just >>> don't think it's a valid argument!, websites can easily be changed. >>> >>> >>> On 11 May 2011 18:02, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>>> Quoting myself: >>>> >>>> "Shipping a frontend to Csound is essential to allow users a smooth >>>> introduction to the system. When you search for Csound, you get the >>>> Sourceforge download page for it, not a frontend page. Unless we stop >>>> distributing Csound directly, this is what happens. A user picks it >>>> up, sees >>>> no GUI application and forgets it." >>>> >>>> I am sure you've heard the complaint, oh csound was good but it's an >>>> outdated command-line application. I am not arguing the correctness >>>> of the >>>> remark, but perception is all you have when you are trying to reach >>>> out to >>>> new users. >>>> >>>> We can argue this until the cows come home. My argument is simple: if it >>>> ain't broken... >>>> >>>> Victor >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11 May 2011, at 17:54, Rory Walsh wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> That's because in the past we've always insisted on end-users >>>>>>> downloading Csound packages. I believe we should be encouraging users >>>>>>> to simply download their frontend of choice. >>>>>> That won't work at all. I give some of the reasons in a follow up >>>>>> e-mail. >>>>> Perhaps you could let me know why it "can't" work, is there a >>>>> technical reason why frontends can communicate with sourceforge and >>>>> make sure the latest Csound is installed? No one is disputing how good >>>>> QuteCsound it is. Here's the problem. I have students that see me >>>>> using QuteCsound/WinXound. They do a search for it at home, find it >>>>> and install it but it doesn't work because they also need to have >>>>> Csound installed. This is the real PITA. Most of my students don't >>>>> know anything about back-ends, front-ends, middle-ends or rear-ends! >>>>> They just see users using a GUI software and assume that's all they >>>>> need. I teach about 60-70 undergrad students each year and it's always >>>>> the same problem. I downloaded QuteCsound but it doesn't work? >>>>> >>>>> Rory. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>>>> "unsubscribe >>>>> csound" >>>>> >>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini >>>> Senior Lecturer >>>> Dept. of Music >>>> NUI Maynooth Ireland >>>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >>>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >>>> csound" >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>> "unsubscribe csound" >>> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini >> Senior Lecturer >> Dept. of Music >> NUI Maynooth Ireland >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe >> csound" >> >> > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 21:21
From	jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	> Why not to make the default download link shipped with QuteCsound? > SuperCollider is more or less like this on OSX, shiped with SCapp. If > there were a good cross-platform IDE (as QuteCSound is) I'm 100% sure > they would ship it on all platforms as default. > > Left field here. If x csound download had been for a GUI/clicky.pointy/watch, whereis it/ then I would nevr have used it and would have deleted it immediately/ Nothing is more off-putting thsat a thing that demands pictures. this is probably my last comment on this as i really cannot understand the desire for such unusabl interfaces. some of us cannot see emacs and the command line is all one needs ==J Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 21:25
From	peiman khosravi
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Is there a tutorial somewhere on using Csound with emacs on the OS X with syntax highlighting? I like the idea but have never really used emacs before. Thanks Peiman On 11/05/2011 21:21, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: >> Why not to make the default download link shipped with QuteCsound? >> SuperCollider is more or less like this on OSX, shiped with SCapp. If >> there were a good cross-platform IDE (as QuteCSound is) I'm 100% sure >> they would ship it on all platforms as default. >> >> > Left field here. > > If x > csound download had been for a GUI/clicky.pointy/watch, whereis it/ then I > would nevr have used it and would have deleted it immediately/ > > Nothing is more off-putting thsat a thing that demands pictures. > > this is probably my last comment on this as i really cannot understand the > desire for such unusabl interfaces. some of us cannot see > > emacs and the command line is all one needs > > ==J > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 21:27
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	So true that it does not require anyone to state it. On 11 May 2011, at 21:21, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: > emacs and the command line is all one needs Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 21:30
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/csoundx.html On 11 May 2011, at 21:25, peiman khosravi wrote: > Is there a tutorial somewhere on using Csound with emacs on the OS X > with syntax highlighting? > > I like the idea but have never really used emacs before. > > Thanks > > Peiman > > > On 11/05/2011 21:21, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: >>> Why not to make the default download link shipped with QuteCsound? >>> SuperCollider is more or less like this on OSX, shiped with SCapp. >>> If >>> there were a good cross-platform IDE (as QuteCSound is) I'm 100% >>> sure >>> they would ship it on all platforms as default. >>> >>> >> Left field here. >> >> If x >> csound download had been for a GUI/clicky.pointy/watch, whereis it/ >> then I >> would nevr have used it and would have deleted it immediately/ >> >> Nothing is more off-putting thsat a thing that demands pictures. >> >> this is probably my last comment on this as i really cannot >> understand the >> desire for such unusabl interfaces. some of us cannot see >> >> emacs and the command line is all one needs >> >> ==J >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >> "unsubscribe csound" >> > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 21:30
From	Steven Yi
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	This is where we start the age-old vi/emacs debate once again. :D (for the record, Vim for the win!) On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > So true that it does not require anyone to state it. > > On 11 May 2011, at 21:21, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: > >> emacs and the command line is all one needs > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe > csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 21:33
From	peiman khosravi
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Thanks Victor, I remember trying to install it a while ago and never managed. Will give it another go now. I like the look of it and the simplicity. Best, Peiman On 11/05/2011 21:30, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/csoundx.html > On 11 May 2011, at 21:25, peiman khosravi wrote: > >> Is there a tutorial somewhere on using Csound with emacs on the OS X >> with syntax highlighting? >> >> I like the idea but have never really used emacs before. >> >> Thanks >> >> Peiman >> >> >> On 11/05/2011 21:21, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: >>>> Why not to make the default download link shipped with QuteCsound? >>>> SuperCollider is more or less like this on OSX, shiped with SCapp. If >>>> there were a good cross-platform IDE (as QuteCSound is) I'm 100% sure >>>> they would ship it on all platforms as default. >>>> >>>> >>> Left field here. >>> >>> If x >>> csound download had been for a GUI/clicky.pointy/watch, whereis it/ >>> then I >>> would nevr have used it and would have deleted it immediately/ >>> >>> Nothing is more off-putting thsat a thing that demands pictures. >>> >>> this is probably my last comment on this as i really cannot >>> understand the >>> desire for such unusabl interfaces. some of us cannot see >>> >>> emacs and the command line is all one needs >>> >>> ==J >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>> "unsubscribe csound" >>> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >> "unsubscribe csound" >> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 21:42
From	Bernardo Barros
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	include csound-mode then, it's also cross-platform Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-11 21:56
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Just follow the instructions. On OSX, with Aquamacs, you will need to read the aquamacs manual on customisation. For some reason calc does not build its textinfo, but otherwise it seems to be OK. Victor On 11 May 2011, at 21:33, peiman khosravi wrote: > Thanks Victor, > > I remember trying to install it a while ago and never managed. Will > give it another go now. I like the look of it and the simplicity. > > Best, > > Peiman > > On 11/05/2011 21:30, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >> http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/csoundx.html >> On 11 May 2011, at 21:25, peiman khosravi wrote: >> >>> Is there a tutorial somewhere on using Csound with emacs on the OS >>> X with syntax highlighting? >>> >>> I like the idea but have never really used emacs before. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Peiman >>> >>> >>> On 11/05/2011 21:21, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: >>>>> Why not to make the default download link shipped with QuteCsound? >>>>> SuperCollider is more or less like this on OSX, shiped with >>>>> SCapp. If >>>>> there were a good cross-platform IDE (as QuteCSound is) I'm 100% >>>>> sure >>>>> they would ship it on all platforms as default. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Left field here. >>>> >>>> If x >>>> csound download had been for a GUI/clicky.pointy/watch, whereis >>>> it/ then I >>>> would nevr have used it and would have deleted it immediately/ >>>> >>>> Nothing is more off-putting thsat a thing that demands pictures. >>>> >>>> this is probably my last comment on this as i really cannot >>>> understand the >>>> desire for such unusabl interfaces. some of us cannot see >>>> >>>> emacs and the command line is all one needs >>>> >>>> ==J >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>>> "unsubscribe csound" >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>> "unsubscribe csound" >>> >> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini >> Senior Lecturer >> Dept. of Music >> NUI Maynooth Ireland >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >> "unsubscribe csound" >> > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 00:18
From	peiman khosravi
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Thanks, Finally managed to install it. It looks really nice. I will give it a try for a week to see what is this emacs religion about. Best, Peiman On 11/05/2011 21:56, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Just follow the instructions. On OSX, with Aquamacs, you will need to > read the aquamacs manual on customisation. > For some reason calc does not build its textinfo, but otherwise it > seems to be OK. > > Victor > > On 11 May 2011, at 21:33, peiman khosravi wrote: > >> Thanks Victor, >> >> I remember trying to install it a while ago and never managed. Will >> give it another go now. I like the look of it and the simplicity. >> >> Best, >> >> Peiman >> >> On 11/05/2011 21:30, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >>> http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/csoundx.html >>> On 11 May 2011, at 21:25, peiman khosravi wrote: >>> >>>> Is there a tutorial somewhere on using Csound with emacs on the OS >>>> X with syntax highlighting? >>>> >>>> I like the idea but have never really used emacs before. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Peiman >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11/05/2011 21:21, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: >>>>>> Why not to make the default download link shipped with QuteCsound? >>>>>> SuperCollider is more or less like this on OSX, shiped with >>>>>> SCapp. If >>>>>> there were a good cross-platform IDE (as QuteCSound is) I'm 100% >>>>>> sure >>>>>> they would ship it on all platforms as default. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Left field here. >>>>> >>>>> If x >>>>> csound download had been for a GUI/clicky.pointy/watch, whereis >>>>> it/ then I >>>>> would nevr have used it and would have deleted it immediately/ >>>>> >>>>> Nothing is more off-putting thsat a thing that demands pictures. >>>>> >>>>> this is probably my last comment on this as i really cannot >>>>> understand the >>>>> desire for such unusabl interfaces. some of us cannot see >>>>> >>>>> emacs and the command line is all one needs >>>>> >>>>> ==J >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>>>> >>>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>>>> "unsubscribe csound" >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>>> "unsubscribe csound" >>>> >>> >>> Dr Victor Lazzarini >>> Senior Lecturer >>> Dept. of Music >>> NUI Maynooth Ireland >>> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >>> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>> "unsubscribe csound" >>> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >> "unsubscribe csound" >> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 01:04
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Be careful! Emacs is like a musical instrument, it takes ages to master. Stéphane's Csound emacs system is powerful. Be sure to inform family and friends before embarking, it could be a while before they see you them again! On Thursday, 12 May 2011, peiman khosravi wrote: > Thanks, > > Finally managed to install it. It looks really nice. I will give it a try for a week to see what is this emacs religion about. > > Best, > > Peiman > > On 11/05/2011 21:56, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > > Just follow the instructions. On OSX, with Aquamacs, you will need to read the aquamacs manual on customisation. > For some reason calc does not build its textinfo, but otherwise it seems to be OK. > > Victor > > On 11 May 2011, at 21:33, peiman khosravi wrote: > > > Thanks Victor, > > I remember trying to install it a while ago and never managed. Will give it another go now. I like the look of it and the simplicity. > > Best, > > Peiman > > On 11/05/2011 21:30, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > > http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/csoundx.html > On 11 May 2011, at 21:25, peiman khosravi wrote: > > > Is there a tutorial somewhere on using Csound with emacs on the OS X with syntax highlighting? > > I like the idea but have never really used emacs before. > > Thanks > > Peiman > > > On 11/05/2011 21:21, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: > > Why not to make the default download link shipped with QuteCsound? > SuperCollider is more or less like this on OSX, shiped with SCapp. If > there were a good cross-platform IDE (as QuteCSound is) I'm 100% sure > they would ship it on all platforms as default. > > > > Left field here. > > If x > csound download had been for a GUI/clicky.pointy/watch, whereis it/ then I > would nevr have used it and would have deleted it immediately/ > > Nothing is more off-putting thsat a thing that demands pictures. > > this is probably my last comment on this as i really cannot understand the > desire for such unusabl interfaces. some of us cannot see > > emacs and the command line is all one needs > > ==J > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_ Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 01:06
From	Jacob Joaquin
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	I did the unthinkable and paid money for TextMate. Couldn't be happier. Jake -- The Csound Blog - http://csoundblog.com/ Slipmat - http://slipmat.noisepages.com/ On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Rory Walsh wrote: > Be careful! Emacs is like a musical instrument, it takes ages to > master. Stéphane's Csound emacs system is powerful. Be sure to inform > family and friends before embarking, it could be a while before they > see you them again! Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 01:16
From	peiman khosravi
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Yeah I have to say, so far it feels like a text editor from another planet :-) On 12/05/2011 01:04, Rory Walsh wrote: > Be careful! Emacs is like a musical instrument, it takes ages to > master. Stéphane's Csound emacs system is powerful. Be sure to inform > family and friends before embarking, it could be a while before they > see you them again! > > On Thursday, 12 May 2011, peiman khosravi wrote: >> Thanks, >> >> Finally managed to install it. It looks really nice. I will give it a try for a week to see what is this emacs religion about. >> >> Best, >> >> Peiman >> >> On 11/05/2011 21:56, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >> >> Just follow the instructions. On OSX, with Aquamacs, you will need to read the aquamacs manual on customisation. >> For some reason calc does not build its textinfo, but otherwise it seems to be OK. >> >> Victor >> >> On 11 May 2011, at 21:33, peiman khosravi wrote: >> >> >> Thanks Victor, >> >> I remember trying to install it a while ago and never managed. Will give it another go now. I like the look of it and the simplicity. >> >> Best, >> >> Peiman >> >> On 11/05/2011 21:30, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >> >> http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/csoundx.html >> On 11 May 2011, at 21:25, peiman khosravi wrote: >> >> >> Is there a tutorial somewhere on using Csound with emacs on the OS X with syntax highlighting? >> >> I like the idea but have never really used emacs before. >> >> Thanks >> >> Peiman >> >> >> On 11/05/2011 21:21, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: >> >> Why not to make the default download link shipped with QuteCsound? >> SuperCollider is more or less like this on OSX, shiped with SCapp. If >> there were a good cross-platform IDE (as QuteCSound is) I'm 100% sure >> they would ship it on all platforms as default. >> >> >> >> Left field here. >> >> If x >> csound download had been for a GUI/clicky.pointy/watch, whereis it/ then I >> would nevr have used it and would have deleted it immediately/ >> >> Nothing is more off-putting thsat a thing that demands pictures. >> >> this is probably my last comment on this as i really cannot understand the >> desire for such unusabl interfaces. some of us cannot see >> >> emacs and the command line is all one needs >> >> ==J >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> >> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini >> Senior Lecturer >> Dept. of Music >> NUI Maynooth Ireland >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> >> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini >> Senior Lecturer >> Dept. of Music >> NUI Maynooth Ireland >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_ > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 01:55
From	Dave Phillips
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	peiman khosravi wrote: > Yeah I have to say, so far it feels like a text editor from another > planet :-) > Actually, Emacs is another planet disguised as a text editor. Best, dp (vi forever !) :) Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 02:04
From	Erik de Castro Lopo
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Dave Phillips wrote: > peiman khosravi wrote: > > Yeah I have to say, so far it feels like a text editor from another > > planet :-) > > > > Actually, Emacs is another planet disguised as a text editor. I thought it was a feature complete OS that lacked a decent text editor :-). Erik

Date	2011-05-12 02:21
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	This probably sums it up: http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060302.html On 12 May 2011 02:04, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: > Dave Phillips wrote: > >> peiman khosravi wrote: >> > Yeah I have to say, so far it feels like a text editor from another >> > planet :-) >> > >> >> Actually, Emacs is another planet disguised as a text editor. > > I thought it was a feature complete OS that lacked a decent > text editor :-). > > Erik > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Erik de Castro Lopo > http://www.mega-nerd.com/ > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 02:25
From	PMA
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	thanks -- classic! Rory Walsh wrote: > This probably sums it up: > > http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060302.html > > > > > On 12 May 2011 02:04, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: >> Dave Phillips wrote: >> >>> peiman khosravi wrote: >>>> Yeah I have to say, so far it feels like a text editor from another >>>> planet :-) >>>> >>> >>> Actually, Emacs is another planet disguised as a text editor. >> >> I thought it was a feature complete OS that lacked a decent >> text editor :-). >> >> Erik >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Erik de Castro Lopo >> http://www.mega-nerd.com/ >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 07:42
From	andy fillebrown
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 4:15 PM, joachim heintz wrote: > 1) As there were some issues with QCS on Windows in the past (or are > perhaps still), it is good to have another choice. So the user can see > that it's not a Csound issue but a frontend issue. Just to clarify ...the issues QCS was having on Windows turned out to be Csound issues, not front-end issues. They have been fixed and afaik there are no issues remaining that are specific to the QCS Windows package. Cheers, ~ andy.f Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 07:44
From	andy fillebrown
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Actually, remembering back now, the biggest issue wasn't even a Csound issue. It was an FLTK issue. ~ af On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 2:42 AM, andy fillebrown wrote: > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 4:15 PM, joachim heintz wrote: > >> 1) As there were some issues with QCS on Windows in the past (or are >> perhaps still), it is good to have another choice. So the user can see >> that it's not a Csound issue but a frontend issue. > > Just to clarify ...the issues QCS was having on Windows turned out to > be Csound issues, not front-end issues. They have been fixed and > afaik there are no issues remaining that are specific to the QCS > Windows package. > > Cheers, > ~ andy.f > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 08:30
From	joachim heintz
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	very cool ::)) i remember andrés once showed me something similar with a butterfly. seems like there are many ways to describe the other planet ... j Am 12.05.2011 03:21, schrieb Rory Walsh: > This probably sums it up: > > http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060302.html > > > > > On 12 May 2011 02:04, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: >> Dave Phillips wrote: >> >>> peiman khosravi wrote: >>>> Yeah I have to say, so far it feels like a text editor from another >>>> planet :-) >>>> >>> >>> Actually, Emacs is another planet disguised as a text editor. >> >> I thought it was a feature complete OS that lacked a decent >> text editor :-). >> >> Erik >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Erik de Castro Lopo >> http://www.mega-nerd.com/ >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 08:41
From	joachim heintz
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	you are perfectly right, andy. my description was in the track "what a usual user will think", and not what really happens. if the user is not an expert or by any reason does not write a mail to the list, he will just see: it does not work. this can happen in certain circumstances on any platform, so it's always good to have another choice. and actually it's a strength of csound to have more than one frontend, so i think we should show this strength to people who are new to csound by including both frontends. j Am 12.05.2011 08:44, schrieb andy fillebrown: > Actually, remembering back now, the biggest issue wasn't even a Csound > issue. It was an FLTK issue. > > ~ af > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 2:42 AM, andy fillebrown > wrote: >> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 4:15 PM, joachim heintz wrote: >> >>> 1) As there were some issues with QCS on Windows in the past (or are >>> perhaps still), it is good to have another choice. So the user can see >>> that it's not a Csound issue but a frontend issue. >> >> Just to clarify ...the issues QCS was having on Windows turned out to >> be Csound issues, not front-end issues. They have been fixed and >> afaik there are no issues remaining that are specific to the QCS >> Windows package. >> >> Cheers, >> ~ andy.f >> > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 10:12
From	Andres Cabrera
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Hi, This is it =) http://xkcd.com/378/ Cheers, Andres On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:30 AM, joachim heintz wrote: > very cool ::)) > i remember andrés once showed me something similar with a butterfly. > seems like there are many ways to describe the other planet ... > > j > > > Am 12.05.2011 03:21, schrieb Rory Walsh: >> This probably sums it up: >> >> http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060302.html >> >> >> >> >> On 12 May 2011 02:04, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: >>> Dave Phillips wrote: >>> >>>> peiman khosravi wrote: >>>>> Yeah I have to say, so far it feels like a text editor from another >>>>> planet :-) >>>>> >>>> >>>> Actually, Emacs is another planet disguised as a text editor. >>> >>> I thought it was a feature complete OS that lacked a decent >>> text editor :-). >>> >>> Erik >>> -- >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Erik de Castro Lopo >>> http://www.mega-nerd.com/ >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >>> >>> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 10:30
From	peiman khosravi
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	haha these are all very hilarious and now I understand why. I though I could deal with it for a week, but a few hours was all I could take. I need to go out and take out the frustration on someone right now! On a serious note, this is a time issue for me. I haven't got time to learn emacs, it is a whole language in itself. Best, Peiman On 12/05/2011 10:12, Andres Cabrera wrote: > Hi, > > This is it =) > > http://xkcd.com/378/ > > Cheers, > Andres > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:30 AM, joachim heintz wrote: >> very cool ::)) >> i remember andrés once showed me something similar with a butterfly. >> seems like there are many ways to describe the other planet ... >> >> j >> >> >> Am 12.05.2011 03:21, schrieb Rory Walsh: >>> This probably sums it up: >>> >>> http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060302.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12 May 2011 02:04, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: >>>> Dave Phillips wrote: >>>> >>>>> peiman khosravi wrote: >>>>>> Yeah I have to say, so far it feels like a text editor from another >>>>>> planet :-) >>>>>> >>>>> Actually, Emacs is another planet disguised as a text editor. >>>> I thought it was a feature complete OS that lacked a decent >>>> text editor :-). >>>> >>>> Erik >>>> -- >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Erik de Castro Lopo >>>> http://www.mega-nerd.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >>> >>> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 10:34
From	Dave Phillips
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Andres Cabrera wrote: > This is it =) > > http://xkcd.com/378/ > > That about sums it up. Hilarious, Andres, thanks for the link. Good old xkcd, always with the sensible representation. :) Best, dp Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 10:38
From	Victor Lazzarini
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	That has to go on my door... On 12 May 2011, at 10:12, Andres Cabrera wrote: > Hi, > > This is it =) > > http://xkcd.com/378/ > > Cheers, > Andres > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:30 AM, joachim heintz > wrote: >> very cool ::)) >> i remember andrés once showed me something similar with a butterfly. >> seems like there are many ways to describe the other planet ... >> >> j >> >> >> Am 12.05.2011 03:21, schrieb Rory Walsh: >>> This probably sums it up: >>> >>> http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060302.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12 May 2011 02:04, Erik de Castro Lopo >>> wrote: >>>> Dave Phillips wrote: >>>> >>>>> peiman khosravi wrote: >>>>>> Yeah I have to say, so far it feels like a text editor from >>>>>> another >>>>>> planet :-) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Actually, Emacs is another planet disguised as a text editor. >>>> >>>> I thought it was a feature complete OS that lacked a decent >>>> text editor :-). >>>> >>>> Erik >>>> -- >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Erik de Castro Lopo >>>> http://www.mega-nerd.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>>> "unsubscribe csound" >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >>> "unsubscribe csound" >>> >>> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/? >> group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >> "unsubscribe csound" >> >> > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > Dr Victor Lazzarini Senior Lecturer Dept. of Music NUI Maynooth Ireland tel.: +353 1 708 3545 Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 10:49
From	jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs
	> haha these are all very hilarious and now I understand why. > > I though I could deal with it for a week, but a few hours was all I > could take. I need to go out and take out the frustration on someone > right now! > > On a serious note, this is a time issue for me. I haven't got time to > learn emacs, it is a whole language in itself. > > Best, > > Peiman about 30 years ago I was giving a series of lectures in Stockholm (on intergration) and as there was little to do between lectures I sat at a terminal and tried out the emacs tutorial. This was the third attempt i had made to understand emaqcs. In a week I had it, and have used it ever since. It was the first screen editor I could stand. What I love is that if i do not lik ewhat it does or I need it to do more I can just write some lisp and there it is. Like M-x unload-camera which creates a web page, thunmb-naile, extracts metadata, etc. while unloading the camera. Back tp marking ==J Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 10:52
From	peiman khosravi
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs
	On 12/05/2011 10:49, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: >> haha these are all very hilarious and now I understand why. >> >> I though I could deal with it for a week, but a few hours was all I >> could take. I need to go out and take out the frustration on someone >> right now! >> >> On a serious note, this is a time issue for me. I haven't got time to >> learn emacs, it is a whole language in itself. >> >> Best, >> >> Peiman > about 30 years ago I was giving a series of lectures in Stockholm (on > intergration) and as there was little to do between lectures I sat at a > terminal and tried out the emacs tutorial. This was the third attempt i > had made to understand emaqcs. In a week I had it, and have used it ever Perhaps something to do during icmc :-) I am sure I will come back to it at some point and give a try when I have a bit more time. Best, Peiman > since. It was the first screen editor I could stand. What I love is that > if i do not lik ewhat it does or I need it to do more I can just write > some lisp and there it is. > Like M-x unload-camera which creates a web page, thunmb-naile, extracts > metadata, etc. while unloading the camera. > > Back tp marking > > ==J > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 11:51
From	Brian Wong
Subject	RE: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs
	Well, I used to use the butterfly method but now that they are mostly extinct around these parts I am stuck (see my requiem piece MilkweedX http://soundcloud.com/brian-wong/milkweedx). Now that I am stumbling around on OSX I guess I need a real text editor; time to give emacs another shot. Um, what is the rest of that emacs butterfly command? BW ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 10:52:24 +0100 > From: peimankhosravi@gmail.com > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > > On 12/05/2011 10:49, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: > >> haha these are all very hilarious and now I understand why. > >> > >> I though I could deal with it for a week, but a few hours was all I > >> could take. I need to go out and take out the frustration on someone > >> right now! > >> > >> On a serious note, this is a time issue for me. I haven't got time to > >> learn emacs, it is a whole language in itself. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Peiman > > about 30 years ago I was giving a series of lectures in Stockholm (on > > intergration) and as there was little to do between lectures I sat at a > > terminal and tried out the emacs tutorial. This was the third attempt i > > had made to understand emaqcs. In a week I had it, and have used it ever > Perhaps something to do during icmc :-) > > I am sure I will come back to it at some point and give a try when I > have a bit more time. > > Best, > > Peiman > > > since. It was the first screen editor I could stand. What I love is that > > if i do not lik ewhat it does or I need it to do more I can just write > > some lisp and there it is. > > Like M-x unload-camera which creates a web page, thunmb-naile, extracts > > metadata, etc. while unloading the camera. > > > > Back tp marking > > > > ==J > > > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 12:02
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	You may have seen this one before but it's still good..not butterflies good but funny all the same! http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060302.html Rory. On Thursday, 12 May 2011, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > That has to go on my door... > On 12 May 2011, at 10:12, Andres Cabrera wrote: > > > Hi, > > This is it =) > > http://xkcd.com/378/ > > Cheers, > Andres > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:30 AM, joachim heintz wrote: > > very cool ::)) > i remember andrés once showed me something similar with a butterfly. > seems like there are many ways to describe the other planet ... > > j > > > Am 12.05.2011 03:21, schrieb Rory Walsh: > > This probably sums it up: > > http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060302.html > > > > > On 12 May 2011 02:04, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: > > Dave Phillips wrote: > > > peiman khosravi wrote: > > Yeah I have to say, so far it feels like a text editor from another > planet :-) > > > > Actually, Emacs is another planet disguised as a text editor. > > > I thought it was a feature complete OS that lacked a decent > text editor :-). > > Erik > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Erik de Castro Lopo > http://www.mega-nerd.com/ > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > Dr Victor Lazzarini > Senior Lecturer > Dept. of Music > NUI Maynooth Ireland > tel.: +353 1 708 3545 > Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 14:09
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	Just realised I already posted that link last night! I must have been sleep emailing again! On 12 May 2011 12:02, Rory Walsh wrote: > You may have seen this one before but it's still good..not butterflies > good but funny all the same! > > http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060302.html > > Rory. > > On Thursday, 12 May 2011, Victor Lazzarini wrote: >> That has to go on my door... >> On 12 May 2011, at 10:12, Andres Cabrera wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> >> This is it =) >> >> http://xkcd.com/378/ >> >> Cheers, >> Andres >> >> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:30 AM, joachim heintz wrote: >> >> very cool ::)) >> i remember andrés once showed me something similar with a butterfly. >> seems like there are many ways to describe the other planet ... >> >> j >> >> >> Am 12.05.2011 03:21, schrieb Rory Walsh: >> >> This probably sums it up: >> >> http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060302.html >> >> >> >> >> On 12 May 2011 02:04, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: >> >> Dave Phillips wrote: >> >> >> peiman khosravi wrote: >> >> Yeah I have to say, so far it feels like a text editor from another >> planet :-) >> >> >> >> Actually, Emacs is another planet disguised as a text editor. >> >> >> I thought it was a feature complete OS that lacked a decent >> text editor :-). >> >> Erik >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Erik de Castro Lopo >> http://www.mega-nerd.com/ >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> >> >> Dr Victor Lazzarini >> Senior Lecturer >> Dept. of Music >> NUI Maynooth Ireland >> tel.: +353 1 708 3545 >> Victor dot Lazzarini AT nuim dot ie >> >> >> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 21:16
From	joachim heintz
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	hi andrés - many thanks for this again ... =) best - j Am 12.05.2011 11:12, schrieb Andres Cabrera: > Hi, > > This is it =) > > http://xkcd.com/378/ > > Cheers, > Andres > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:30 AM, joachim heintz wrote: >> very cool ::)) >> i remember andrés once showed me something similar with a butterfly. >> seems like there are many ways to describe the other planet ... >> >> j >> >> >> Am 12.05.2011 03:21, schrieb Rory Walsh: >>> This probably sums it up: >>> >>> http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060302.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12 May 2011 02:04, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: >>>> Dave Phillips wrote: >>>> >>>>> peiman khosravi wrote: >>>>>> Yeah I have to say, so far it feels like a text editor from another >>>>>> planet :-) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Actually, Emacs is another planet disguised as a text editor. >>>> >>>> I thought it was a feature complete OS that lacked a decent >>>> text editor :-). >>>> >>>> Erik >>>> -- >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Erik de Castro Lopo >>>> http://www.mega-nerd.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >>> >>> >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> >> > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-12 21:59
From	Felipe Sateler
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs
	On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 05:49, wrote: >> haha these are all very hilarious and now I understand why. >> >> I though I could deal with it for a week, but a few hours was all I >> could take. I need to go out and take out the frustration on someone >> right now! >> >> On a serious note, this is a time issue for me. I haven't got time to >> learn emacs, it is a whole language in itself. >> >> Best, >> >> Peiman > > about 30 years ago I was giving a series of lectures in Stockholm (on > intergration) and as there was little to do between lectures I sat at a > terminal and tried out the emacs tutorial. Interestingly enough, there is athing called Stockholm syndrome, in which hostages feel positively towards their captors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome PS: yes, I use vim.

Date	2011-05-13 00:44
From	luis jure
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs
	on 2011-05-12 at 10:49 jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: > Like M-x unload-camera which creates a web page, thunmb-naile, extracts >metadata, etc. while unloading the camera. fantastic! i use bash for things like that. as an aside, what do you use to actually edit text? :-) (yes, i use vim) Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-13 00:50
From	Brian Wong
Subject	RE: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs
	Actually I have been using SciTe every since doing Michael Gogins tutorials years ago. I don't get too fancy with it, I just want my language syntax colouring and will use whatever editor provides it for the language I am writing in. Brian ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:44:43 -0300 > From: ljc@internet.com.uy > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > > > on 2011-05-12 at 10:49 jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: > > > Like M-x unload-camera which creates a web page, thunmb-naile, extracts > >metadata, etc. while unloading the camera. > > fantastic! i use bash for things like that. as an aside, what do you use > to actually edit text? :-) > > > (yes, i use vim) > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-13 00:52
From	luis jure
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on LAC
	on 2011-05-12 at 10:12 Andres Cabrera wrote: >This is it =) > >http://xkcd.com/378/ hey, this is so funny! i really love this "real" programmers jokes. BTW, is this thing about the magnetized needle a standard? i sent this to the linux audio users list in 2005, during a vi-vs-emacs thread: >el Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:17:53 -0400 >Brett McCoy escribió: > > >> Real Programmers use cat... > >maybe, yes. but REAL-REAL Programmers punch ones and zeros directly on the >surface of the hard disk with the tip of a magnetized needle. at the time i thought i was being very funny and original... Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-13 01:10
From	Brian Wong
Subject	RE: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs
	I just realized that question was directed at John, not me. Oops. Anyhow, quick question for the text editor wizards here. I am starting working with a new language, which is still only partially documented and in development. I would like to look at developing syntax colouring/formatting with a an appropriately capable editor alongside learning the language. SciTe and Emacs I guess are the 1st two that come to mind for me (sorry, can't stand Vim). I guess really I am just looking for the option that would make it easiest to develop syntax formatting. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. Needless to say, cross platform and free are desired properties. Brian ---------------------------------------- > From: brian.wong1@hotmail.com > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:50:41 -0300 > Subject: RE: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > > > Actually I have been using SciTe every since doing Michael Gogins tutorials years ago. I don't get too fancy with it, I just want my language syntax colouring and will use whatever editor provides it for the language I am writing in. > Brian > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:44:43 -0300 > > From: ljc@internet.com.uy > > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > > > > > > on 2011-05-12 at 10:49 jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: > > > > > Like M-x unload-camera which creates a web page, thunmb-naile, extracts > > >metadata, etc. while unloading the camera. > > > > fantastic! i use bash for things like that. as an aside, what do you use > > to actually edit text? :-) > > > > > > (yes, i use vim) > > > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-13 01:31
From	Rory Walsh
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs
	I think most editors will let you specify your own language specs. If you want to write your own editor I'd recommend Scintella which is the editing component that SciTE uses. WinXound also uses it. You can add jEdit to that list beside Emacs and SciTE. On windows I use Crimson editor all the time, and it lets you create your own syntax rules. I assume it's the same with most editors. Rory. p.s. http://xkcd.com is cracking me up! How have I not come across this site before! On 13 May 2011 01:10, Brian Wong wrote: > > I just realized that question was directed at John, not me. Oops. Anyhow, quick question for the text editor wizards here. I am starting working with a new language, which is still only partially documented and in development. I would like to look at developing syntax colouring/formatting with a an appropriately capable editor alongside learning the language. SciTe and Emacs I guess are the 1st two that come to mind for me (sorry, can't stand Vim). I guess really I am just looking for the option that would make it easiest to develop syntax formatting. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. Needless to say, cross platform and free are desired properties. > Brian > > ---------------------------------------- >> From: brian.wong1@hotmail.com >> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk >> Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:50:41 -0300 >> Subject: RE: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs >> >> >> Actually I have been using SciTe every since doing Michael Gogins tutorials years ago. I don't get too fancy with it, I just want my language syntax colouring and will use whatever editor provides it for the language I am writing in. >> Brian >> >> ---------------------------------------- >> > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:44:43 -0300 >> > From: ljc@internet.com.uy >> > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk >> > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs >> > >> > >> > on 2011-05-12 at 10:49 jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: >> > >> > > Like M-x unload-camera which creates a web page, thunmb-naile, extracts >> > >metadata, etc. while unloading the camera. >> > >> > fantastic! i use bash for things like that. as an aside, what do you use >> > to actually edit text? :-) >> > >> > >> > (yes, i use vim) >> > >> > >> > >> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> > >> >> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" >> > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-13 01:44
From	Brian Wong
Subject	RE: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs
	Crimson or Scintilla would have been my first choices, but since I now need OSX I guess Emacs might make the most sense. Thanks Rory! Brian ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 01:31:19 +0100 > From: rorywalsh@ear.ie > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > > I think most editors will let you specify your own language specs. If > you want to write your own editor I'd recommend Scintella which is the > editing component that SciTE uses. WinXound also uses it. You can add > jEdit to that list beside Emacs and SciTE. On windows I use Crimson > editor all the time, and it lets you create your own syntax rules. I > assume it's the same with most editors. > > Rory. > > p.s. http://xkcd.com is cracking me up! How have I not come across > this site before! > > > > > On 13 May 2011 01:10, Brian Wong wrote: > > > > I just realized that question was directed at John, not me. Oops. Anyhow, quick question for the text editor wizards here. I am starting working with a new language, which is still only partially documented and in development. I would like to look at developing syntax colouring/formatting with a an appropriately capable editor alongside learning the language. SciTe and Emacs I guess are the 1st two that come to mind for me (sorry, can't stand Vim). I guess really I am just looking for the option that would make it easiest to develop syntax formatting. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. Needless to say, cross platform and free are desired properties. > > Brian > > > > ---------------------------------------- > >> From: brian.wong1@hotmail.com > >> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > >> Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:50:41 -0300 > >> Subject: RE: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > >> > >> > >> Actually I have been using SciTe every since doing Michael Gogins tutorials years ago. I don't get too fancy with it, I just want my language syntax colouring and will use whatever editor provides it for the language I am writing in. > >> Brian > >> > >> ---------------------------------------- > >> > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:44:43 -0300 > >> > From: ljc@internet.com.uy > >> > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > >> > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > >> > > >> > > >> > on 2011-05-12 at 10:49 jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: > >> > > >> > > Like M-x unload-camera which creates a web page, thunmb-naile, extracts > >> > >metadata, etc. while unloading the camera. > >> > > >> > fantastic! i use bash for things like that. as an aside, what do you use > >> > to actually edit text? :-) > >> > > >> > > >> > (yes, i use vim) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > >> > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > >> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > >> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > >> > > >> > >> > >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > >> > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Date	2011-05-13 08:20
From	Michael Gogins
Subject	Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs
	I use Emacs with Windows key bindings, or SciTE (which has Windows key bindings), because these were the key bindings in use where I learned computing. There is a remark attributed to Einstein about new scientific theories -- make it is as simple as possible, but not too simple. This remark can be adapted to people who work with software. Learn as much as possible about your real problems, but as little as possible about stuff like key bindings and text editors. Better yet -- learn as little as possible about stuff like key bindings and text editors, so that you have time to learn what you really need to know about your real problems. Regards, Mike On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 1:44 AM, Brian Wong <brian.wong1@hotmail.com> wrote: Crimson or Scintilla would have been my first choices, but since I now need OSX I guess Emacs might make the most sense. Thanks Rory! Brian ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 01:31:19 +0100 > From: rorywalsh@ear.ie > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > > I think most editors will let you specify your own language specs. If > you want to write your own editor I'd recommend Scintella which is the > editing component that SciTE uses. WinXound also uses it. You can add > jEdit to that list beside Emacs and SciTE. On windows I use Crimson > editor all the time, and it lets you create your own syntax rules. I > assume it's the same with most editors. > > Rory. > > p.s. http://xkcd.com is cracking me up! How have I not come across > this site before! > > > > > On 13 May 2011 01:10, Brian Wong wrote: > > > > I just realized that question was directed at John, not me. Oops. Anyhow, quick question for the text editor wizards here. I am starting working with a new language, which is still only partially documented and in development. I would like to look at developing syntax colouring/formatting with a an appropriately capable editor alongside learning the language. SciTe and Emacs I guess are the 1st two that come to mind for me (sorry, can't stand Vim). I guess really I am just looking for the option that would make it easiest to develop syntax formatting. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. Needless to say, cross platform and free are desired properties. > > Brian > > > > ---------------------------------------- > >> From: brian.wong1@hotmail.com > >> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > >> Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:50:41 -0300 > >> Subject: RE: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > >> > >> > >> Actually I have been using SciTe every since doing Michael Gogins tutorials years ago. I don't get too fancy with it, I just want my language syntax colouring and will use whatever editor provides it for the language I am writing in. > >> Brian > >> > >> ---------------------------------------- > >> > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:44:43 -0300 > >> > From: ljc@internet.com.uy > >> > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > >> > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > >> > > >> > > >> > on 2011-05-12 at 10:49 jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: > >> > > >> > > Like M-x unload-camera which creates a web page, thunmb-naile, extracts > >> > >metadata, etc. while unloading the camera. > >> > > >> > fantastic! i use bash for things like that. as an aside, what do you use > >> > to actually edit text? :-) > >> > > >> > > >> > (yes, i use vim) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > >> > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > >> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > >> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > >> > > >> > >> > >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > >> > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound" -- Michael Gogins Irreducible Productions http://www.michael-gogins.com Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com

Date	2011-05-13 11:28
From	Brian Wong
Subject	RE: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs
	Good advice Mike, thank you. I will make some inquiries with the developers and see if anyone is working on this. Brian ________________________________ > Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 08:20:08 +0100 > From: michael.gogins@gmail.com > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > > I use Emacs with Windows key bindings, or SciTE (which has Windows key > bindings), because these were the key bindings in use where I learned > computing. > > There is a remark attributed to Einstein about new scientific theories > -- make it is as simple as possible, but not too simple. This remark > can be adapted to people who work with software. Learn as much as > possible about your real problems, but as little as possible about > stuff like key bindings and text editors. Better yet -- learn as little > as possible about stuff like key bindings and text editors, so that you > have time to learn what you really need to know about your real > problems. > > Regards, > Mike > > On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 1:44 AM, Brian Wong > > wrote: > > Crimson or Scintilla would have been my first choices, but since I now > need OSX I guess Emacs might make the most sense. Thanks Rory! > Brian > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 01:31:19 +0100 > > From: rorywalsh@ear.ie > > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > > > > I think most editors will let you specify your own language specs. If > > you want to write your own editor I'd recommend Scintella which is the > > editing component that SciTE uses. WinXound also uses it. You can add > > jEdit to that list beside Emacs and SciTE. On windows I use Crimson > > editor all the time, and it lets you create your own syntax rules. I > > assume it's the same with most editors. > > > > Rory. > > > > p.s. http://xkcd.com is cracking me up! How have I not come across > > this site before! > > > > > > > > > > On 13 May 2011 01:10, Brian Wong wrote: > > > > > > I just realized that question was directed at John, not me. Oops. > Anyhow, quick question for the text editor wizards here. I am starting > working with a new language, which is still only partially documented > and in development. I would like to look at developing syntax > colouring/formatting with a an appropriately capable editor alongside > learning the language. SciTe and Emacs I guess are the 1st two that > come to mind for me (sorry, can't stand Vim). I guess really I am just > looking for the option that would make it easiest to develop syntax > formatting. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. Needless to > say, cross platform and free are desired properties. > > > Brian > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > >> From: brian.wong1@hotmail.com > > >> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > > >> Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:50:41 -0300 > > >> Subject: RE: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > > >> > > >> > > >> Actually I have been using SciTe every since doing Michael Gogins > tutorials years ago. I don't get too fancy with it, I just want my > language syntax colouring and will use whatever editor provides it for > the language I am writing in. > > >> Brian > > >> > > >> ---------------------------------------- > > >> > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:44:43 -0300 > > >> > From: ljc@internet.com.uy > > >> > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk > > >> > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Some remarks on emacs > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > on 2011-05-12 at 10:49 > jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Like M-x unload-camera which creates a web page, thunmb-naile, > extracts > > >> > >metadata, etc. while unloading the camera. > > >> > > > >> > fantastic! i use bash for things like that. as an aside, what do > you use > > >> > to actually edit text? :-) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > (yes, i use vim) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > > >> > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > > >> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > >> > To unsubscribe, send email > sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > > >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > > >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > >> To unsubscribe, send email > sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > > >> > > > > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > > To unsubscribe, send email > sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > > > > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > > To unsubscribe, send email > sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here > To unsubscribe, send email > sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body > "unsubscribe csound" > > > > > -- > Michael Gogins > Irreducible Productions > http://www.michael-gogins.com > Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599 Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"