On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:37 AM, jpff  wrote:
> This is a periodic reminder.  The Csound list welcomes posts from
> people with ALL levels of skill, from the newest newbie to the most
> serious hacker or established composer.

Ok... Newest newbie here :-)
I was wondering if there is any stuff readily available and/or easily
programmable for learning 'meend'.

'Meend' in north Indian classical music is roughly glissando or pitch bend.
Some examples:
http://raag-hindustani.com/Embellishment.html

So my question: Can learning meend for students be helped by csound?

Something like this: A few notes are taken plain, then some meends are
introduced, then perhaps one can fiddle with the meend parameters,
starting with the simplest -- time/tempo -- so that say by slowing it
down one can hear and practise it more easily.  And then more
sophisticated parameters such as how the two endpoints are
interpolated (triangulated??) volume modifications etc.


Thanks
Rusi

-- 
http://www.the-magus.in
http://blog.languager.org

You could definitely do that with Csound. Based on what you have in mind, I
would suggest using the widgets in CsoundQt to control the depth, length,
and other features of the meend. You would have to work out the details of
the programming yourself, as I doubt anyone else has set up a .csd file to
do this. But using an envelope (such as expseg) to control the pitch, it
shouldn't be too difficult to program what you need.



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As regards slowing it down, if you have a soundfile you can use 
Audacity to slow the tempo it plays at without altering the 
pitch.  I use this all the time for transcribing bits I want to 
learn.  As to your other thoughts, I'm sure there are ways to do 
this in csound using its analysis/resynthesis capabilities, but 
I haven't done it, so I'm not sure.
Bob

On 3/16/2014 04:26, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:37 AM, jpff  wrote:
>> This is a periodic reminder.  The Csound list welcomes posts from
>> people with ALL levels of skill, from the newest newbie to the most
>> serious hacker or established composer.
>
> Ok... Newest newbie here :-)
> I was wondering if there is any stuff readily available and/or easily
> programmable for learning 'meend'.
>
> 'Meend' in north Indian classical music is roughly glissando or pitch bend.
> Some examples:
> http://raag-hindustani.com/Embellishment.html
>
> So my question: Can learning meend for students be helped by csound?
>
> Something like this: A few notes are taken plain, then some meends are
> introduced, then perhaps one can fiddle with the meend parameters,
> starting with the simplest -- time/tempo -- so that say by slowing it
> down one can hear and practise it more easily.  And then more
> sophisticated parameters such as how the two endpoints are
> interpolated (triangulated??) volume modifications etc.
>
>
> Thanks
> Rusi
>

you don’t need audacity for that. Csound can do it (and probably better).
========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
NUI Maynooth, Ireland
victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie




On 17 Mar 2014, at 05:17, Robert or Gretchen Foose  wrote:

> As regards slowing it down, if you have a soundfile you can use Audacity to slow the tempo it plays at without altering the pitch.  I use this all the time for transcribing bits I want to learn.  As to your other thoughts, I'm sure there are ways to do this in csound using its analysis/resynthesis capabilities, but I haven't done it, so I'm not sure.
> Bob
> 
> On 3/16/2014 04:26, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:37 AM, jpff  wrote:
>>> This is a periodic reminder.  The Csound list welcomes posts from
>>> people with ALL levels of skill, from the newest newbie to the most
>>> serious hacker or established composer.
>> 
>> Ok... Newest newbie here :-)
>> I was wondering if there is any stuff readily available and/or easily
>> programmable for learning 'meend'.
>> 
>> 'Meend' in north Indian classical music is roughly glissando or pitch bend.
>> Some examples:
>> http://raag-hindustani.com/Embellishment.html
>> 
>> So my question: Can learning meend for students be helped by csound?
>> 
>> Something like this: A few notes are taken plain, then some meends are
>> introduced, then perhaps one can fiddle with the meend parameters,
>> starting with the simplest -- time/tempo -- so that say by slowing it
>> down one can hear and practise it more easily.  And then more
>> sophisticated parameters such as how the two endpoints are
>> interpolated (triangulated??) volume modifications etc.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Rusi
>> 
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
> csound6:
>           https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
> csound5:
>           https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 

On 03/17/2014 05:58 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> you don’t need audacity for that. Csound can do it (and probably better).

Maybe. But of course Csound can't load an MP3 of Stairway To Heaven in a 
graphic display for easy passage location, zoom, and loop. Nor does it 
provide a simple GUI for the selection and refinement of the tempo 
and/or pitch adjustment.

Just saying that Audacity's a great tool for the specific job, perhaps 
even a little easier to use than Csound. :)

Best,

dp


> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Senior Lecturer
> NUI Maynooth, Ireland
> victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie
>
>
>
>
> On 17 Mar 2014, at 05:17, Robert or Gretchen Foose  wrote:
>
>> As regards slowing it down, if you have a soundfile you can use Audacity to slow the tempo it plays at without altering the pitch.  I use this all the time for transcribing bits I want to learn.  As to your other thoughts, I'm sure there are ways to do this in csound using its analysis/resynthesis capabilities, but I haven't done it, so I'm not sure.
>> Bob
>>
>> On 3/16/2014 04:26, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:37 AM, jpff  wrote:
>>>> This is a periodic reminder.  The Csound list welcomes posts from
>>>> people with ALL levels of skill, from the newest newbie to the most
>>>> serious hacker or established composer.
>>> Ok... Newest newbie here :-)
>>> I was wondering if there is any stuff readily available and/or easily
>>> programmable for learning 'meend'.
>>>
>>> 'Meend' in north Indian classical music is roughly glissando or pitch bend.
>>> Some examples:
>>> http://raag-hindustani.com/Embellishment.html
>>>
>>> So my question: Can learning meend for students be helped by csound?
>>>
>>> Something like this: A few notes are taken plain, then some meends are
>>> introduced, then perhaps one can fiddle with the meend parameters,
>>> starting with the simplest -- time/tempo -- so that say by slowing it
>>> down one can hear and practise it more easily.  And then more
>>> sophisticated parameters such as how the two endpoints are
>>> interpolated (triangulated??) volume modifications etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Rusi
>>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
>> csound6:
>>            https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
>> csound5:
>>            https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
> csound6:
>              https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
> csound5:
>              https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>
>

Of course, Csound’s job is not to have a GUI, but to provide you with a good slowdown, with less artifacts and transient preservation,
and it does that (with an MP3 off-the-shelf, which Audacity can’t, because you need to go off and install lame and point to it).

However, Cabbage is not far from giving us what you’ve asked (https://vimeo.com/88459408). With such creative
frontend developers, we’ll get far.

========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Senior Lecturer
NUI Maynooth, Ireland
victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie




On 17 Mar 2014, at 10:15, Dave Phillips  wrote:

> 
> On 03/17/2014 05:58 AM, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> you don’t need audacity for that. Csound can do it (and probably better).
> 
> Maybe. But of course Csound can't load an MP3 of Stairway To Heaven in a graphic display for easy passage location, zoom, and loop. Nor does it provide a simple GUI for the selection and refinement of the tempo and/or pitch adjustment.
> 
> Just saying that Audacity's a great tool for the specific job, perhaps even a little easier to use than Csound. :)
> 
> Best,
> 
> dp
> 
> 
>> ========================
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Senior Lecturer
>> NUI Maynooth, Ireland
>> victor dot lazzarini at nuim dot ie
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 17 Mar 2014, at 05:17, Robert or Gretchen Foose  wrote:
>> 
>>> As regards slowing it down, if you have a soundfile you can use Audacity to slow the tempo it plays at without altering the pitch.  I use this all the time for transcribing bits I want to learn.  As to your other thoughts, I'm sure there are ways to do this in csound using its analysis/resynthesis capabilities, but I haven't done it, so I'm not sure.
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> On 3/16/2014 04:26, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:37 AM, jpff  wrote:
>>>>> This is a periodic reminder.  The Csound list welcomes posts from
>>>>> people with ALL levels of skill, from the newest newbie to the most
>>>>> serious hacker or established composer.
>>>> Ok... Newest newbie here :-)
>>>> I was wondering if there is any stuff readily available and/or easily
>>>> programmable for learning 'meend'.
>>>> 
>>>> 'Meend' in north Indian classical music is roughly glissando or pitch bend.
>>>> Some examples:
>>>> http://raag-hindustani.com/Embellishment.html
>>>> 
>>>> So my question: Can learning meend for students be helped by csound?
>>>> 
>>>> Something like this: A few notes are taken plain, then some meends are
>>>> introduced, then perhaps one can fiddle with the meend parameters,
>>>> starting with the simplest -- time/tempo -- so that say by slowing it
>>>> down one can hear and practise it more easily.  And then more
>>>> sophisticated parameters such as how the two endpoints are
>>>> interpolated (triangulated??) volume modifications etc.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Rusi
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
>>> csound6:
>>>           https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
>>> csound5:
>>>           https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
>> csound6:
>>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
>> csound5:
>>             https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug trackers
> csound6:
>           https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/tickets/
> csound5:
>           https://sourceforge.net/p/csound/bugs/
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> Of course, Csound's job is not to have a GUI, but to provide you with a good slowdown, with less artifacts and transient preservation,
> and it does that (with an MP3 off-the-shelf, which Audacity can't, because you need to go off and install lame and point to it).
>
> However, Cabbage is not far from giving us what you've asked (https://vimeo.com/88459408). With such creative
> frontend developers, we'll get far.

Thanks all -- seeing the reference to audacity I remembered that
sonic-visualizer does a rather good job of this.

So yes, if there is some maestro who one wishes to mimetically imitate
then these tools are good.  And to start with I think these will be
more than enough

However I was also looking for something more 'algorithmic'  --
something where after the meend is slow enough to hear the details and
imitate, then one may wish to make some experiments to move in
different ways across the range

I took your original question as referring to a desire to create an output
that students can experiment with or practice to. I didn't assume that you
wanted to play back actual audio files, which is what others in this thread
seem to be assuming.

For teaching purposes, I would just start with a nice muted sawtooth, using
gbuzz for example. Add some slider widgets and preferably a way to retrigger
the playback at different speeds without stopping and restarting Csound (not
difficult to do -- put the playback in a separate instr and call it with an
event opcode, for instance), and you should be able to generate tones for
teaching and experimentation. They won't be vocal tones, that's all.



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