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[Csnd] re:re: sloppy packaging

Date2010-02-23 18:31
FromRobert or Gretchen Foose
Subject[Csnd] re:re: sloppy packaging
Dave Phillips wrote:
Working with Csound isn't always about instrument building. 
There are plenty of pre-built instruments for Csound, and like 
your guitar you have to learn to play them. Then you have to 
learn to play them well.

Thanks for the reply, Dave.  You're correct, of course, with 
regard to the numerous pre-built instruments available to you 
once you have a working installation of csound.  What I was 
referring to in my post was the suggestion that people build 
their own installation from sources.
I have actually considered doing this..but I find that, to 
extend the guitar analogy, the instructions for building assume 
that I know what a spoke shave is and how to use it, that I have 
the molds and metals to create the frets, etc., and know how to 
use them, and that I am conversant with the arcane terminologies 
used by luthiers.
The article in the manual about building csound from sources is, 
to me, similarly confusing and/or intimidating.  I don't 
consider myself incapable of meeting the challenges to undertake 
and complete the process..I just have better use for my time, 
and can't imagine why I would ever need to use the ancillary 
programs required for such a task for any other purpose.
As a matter of fact, for my own use, csound 4.23 is mostly 
adequate, but I do like some of the tools, GEN routines, etc. 
that come with the 5.x series.  Could I live without them..yes. 
  And if learning to compile from sources is the only way to get 
access to them, I suppose I will learn to live without them. 
Unless someone who has Windows experience can communicate to a 
relatively illiterate novice a way to do so that makes me feel 
it's worth my time to try.
  P.S.  Apparently even some of those who have risen to the 
challenge of using Linux have difficulties with the process too. 
  Yet another reason for me to stay in the Windows cocoon a 
little longer.
  P.P.S.  I might mention that I hold everyone who works to make 
csound better in the highest regard.  I make these remarks, as I 
have others, in the spirit of offering the small bit of help 
that I am capable of..suggestions in the form of criticisms.


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Date2010-02-23 18:38
FromRory Walsh
Subject[Csnd] Re: re:re: sloppy packaging
Are people really having a lot of difficulties with the windows
installers? I've found that both OSX and windows installers have been
getting better and better in the last few years thanks in no small
part to the work of Michael and Victor. Am I right in assuming it's
not necessarily the installers on these platforms but the small bugs
present in the versions of Csound they install?

On 23 February 2010 18:31, Robert or Gretchen Foose  wrote:
> Dave Phillips wrote:
> Working with Csound isn't always about instrument building. There are plenty
> of pre-built instruments for Csound, and like your guitar you have to learn
> to play them. Then you have to learn to play them well.
>


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Date2010-02-23 19:08
FromDave Phillips
Subject[Csnd] Re: re:re: sloppy packaging
Robert or Gretchen Foose wrote:
> Dave Phillips wrote:
> Working with Csound isn't always about instrument building. There are 
> plenty of pre-built instruments for Csound, and like your guitar you 
> have to learn to play them. Then you have to learn to play them well.
>
> Thanks for the reply, Dave.  You're correct, of course, with regard to 
> the numerous pre-built instruments available to you once you have a 
> working installation of csound.  What I was referring to in my post 
> was the suggestion that people build their own installation from sources.

Let me clarify that: I agree that the Csound devs should make binaries 
available for Win/Mac users, and that they should forego building 
binaries for Linux systems. Linux distributions have package 
maintainers, it's their job to ensure that the package will run on the 
distro. I agree that they should do just that by building Csound from 
sources on the target distribution.

> I have actually considered doing this..but I find that, to extend the 
> guitar analogy, the instructions for building assume that I know what 
> a spoke shave is and how to use it, that I have the molds and metals 
> to create the frets, etc., and know how to use them, and that I am 
> conversant with the arcane terminologies used by luthiers.
> The article in the manual about building csound from sources is, to 
> me, similarly confusing and/or intimidating.  I don't consider myself 
> incapable of meeting the challenges to undertake and complete the 
> process..I just have better use for my time, and can't imagine why I 
> would ever need to use the ancillary programs required for such a task 
> for any other purpose.

Fair enough statements. Too often I forget that there are systems (even 
Linux systems) where people simply install working programs and run them. :)

If you're working on Windows I wouldn't expect you to have any 
development tools around at all, not unless you're a professional or an 
aspiring programmer. And frankly, even with my experience compiling 
software under Linux I doubt I'd want to try it under Windows.

>  P.S.  Apparently even some of those who have risen to the challenge 
> of using Linux have difficulties with the process too.  Yet another 
> reason for me to stay in the Windows cocoon a little longer.

The last thing I would try to do is convince someone that they should 
use Linux. ;)

Best,

dp



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