Hi All,

[Cross-posting as it relates to developers and users]

I'm currently working on a homebrew [1] file for Csound (with very
much appreciated help from members on the dev list!).  Up until now,
for releases I've been doing universal builds for OSX, building fat
binaries of all the dependencies and executables (using i386 and
x86_64).  My plan is to drop support for i386 in the 10.8 builds I've
been doing, and only use x86_64. I also plan to use the same libraries
I install with homebrew that I do for the installer.   To suppor this,
I was trying to find out when 64-bit OSX became the default. I saw
this note in the Wikipedia entry for OSX:

"Mac OS X 10.7 "Lion" was the first version of OS X to drop support
for 32-bit Intel processors and run exclusively on 64-bit Intel CPUs."
[2]

Also, Apple's developer documentation mentions:

"OS X v10.8 uses a 64-bit kernel and fully supports 64-bit
applications. The 64-bit kernel was originally introduced in OS X
v10.6 (on some models of Mac hardware), and 64-bit application support
was introduced in v10.5. Command-line 64-bit support was introduced in
v10.4." [3]

and:

"In OS X v10.7 and later, all Apple applications shipping as part of
the OS are 64-bit executables. This means that users with
64-bit-capable computers will be running the 64-bit slice of key
system components. And beginning in OS X v10.8 and later, built-in
apps are generally 64-bit-only. This means that any plug-ins (screen
savers, printer dialog extensions, and so on) that need to load in
these applications must be recompiled as 64-bit plug-ins." [4]

With this plan, the 10.8 Csound installer release should be guaranteed
to run on 10.8.  We currently do two releases on OSX, one for 10.8 by
me and one for 10.6 by Victor.  I think between the two we should be
covered.

The one thing I can think of is that we could spend some time to
revise the build system such that it uses the -mmacosx-version-min
compilation flag, use universal builds, and potentially release a
single installer that could cover a number of OSX versions.  I think
that could potentially be a very good thing, but that it would also
require a good bit of time to explore and test.

If anyone has reasons I should not drop i386 for the 10.8 release,
please let me know.

Thanks!
steven


[1] - http://www.brew.sh
[2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X
[3] - https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/64bitPorting/intro/intro.html
[4] - https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/64bitPorting/indications/indications.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001064-CH206-TPXREF101

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Steven, 

The text that you quoted may be strictly true. But it's not always easy to understand Apple's intentions.

For example, I run OSX 10.8.3, the most recent version of OSX. I also use the most recent version Apple's Logic Pro (v. 9.1.8), which when installed ran in 32-bit mode by default. It also runs in 64-bit mode but I had to explicitly reset an out-of-the-way checkbox in order to get this to occur. That version was released in October 2012, I believe. Logic Pro is NOT a "built-in" app, but it is the "professional" level DAW provided by Apple. 

I'm not sure how this information informs your decision. I hope this information is helpful.

-Lou Cohen

On May 13, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Steven Yi  wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> [Cross-posting as it relates to developers and users]
> 
> I'm currently working on a homebrew [1] file for Csound (with very
> much appreciated help from members on the dev list!).  Up until now,
> for releases I've been doing universal builds for OSX, building fat
> binaries of all the dependencies and executables (using i386 and
> x86_64).  My plan is to drop support for i386 in the 10.8 builds I've
> been doing, and only use x86_64. I also plan to use the same libraries
> I install with homebrew that I do for the installer.   To suppor this,
> I was trying to find out when 64-bit OSX became the default. I saw
> this note in the Wikipedia entry for OSX:
> 
> "Mac OS X 10.7 "Lion" was the first version of OS X to drop support
> for 32-bit Intel processors and run exclusively on 64-bit Intel CPUs."
> [2]
> 
> Also, Apple's developer documentation mentions:
> 
> "OS X v10.8 uses a 64-bit kernel and fully supports 64-bit
> applications. The 64-bit kernel was originally introduced in OS X
> v10.6 (on some models of Mac hardware), and 64-bit application support
> was introduced in v10.5. Command-line 64-bit support was introduced in
> v10.4." [3]
> 
> and:
> 
> "In OS X v10.7 and later, all Apple applications shipping as part of
> the OS are 64-bit executables. This means that users with
> 64-bit-capable computers will be running the 64-bit slice of key
> system components. And beginning in OS X v10.8 and later, built-in
> apps are generally 64-bit-only. This means that any plug-ins (screen
> savers, printer dialog extensions, and so on) that need to load in
> these applications must be recompiled as 64-bit plug-ins." [4]
> 
> With this plan, the 10.8 Csound installer release should be guaranteed
> to run on 10.8.  We currently do two releases on OSX, one for 10.8 by
> me and one for 10.6 by Victor.  I think between the two we should be
> covered.
> 
> The one thing I can think of is that we could spend some time to
> revise the build system such that it uses the -mmacosx-version-min
> compilation flag, use universal builds, and potentially release a
> single installer that could cover a number of OSX versions.  I think
> that could potentially be a very good thing, but that it would also
> require a good bit of time to explore and test.
> 
> If anyone has reasons I should not drop i386 for the 10.8 release,
> please let me know.
> 
> Thanks!
> steven
> 
> 
> [1] - http://www.brew.sh
> [2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X
> [3] - https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/64bitPorting/intro/intro.html
> [4] - https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/64bitPorting/indications/indications.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001064-CH206-TPXREF101
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 

Lou Cohen
www.jolc.net
www.opensound.org

Hi Lou,

Thanks for your reply!  I think in this situation though, the issue is
will releasing a 64-bit only app work alright for users using 10.8,
and I think it will.  The 64-bit OS can certainly run 32-bit i386
applications.  My guess is that Logic Pro is released as a Universal
Binary so that it can run on older OSX versions and be compatible out
of the box with older plugins.  We may look at doing this in the
future (alluded to near the bottom of my first email), but since the
release I do is specifically released for 10.8, I think it should be
fine to go x86_64 only. Hopefully that line of reasoning makes sense.

Thanks!
steven

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Louis Cohen  wrote:
> Steven,
>
> The text that you quoted may be strictly true. But it's not always easy to understand Apple's intentions.
>
> For example, I run OSX 10.8.3, the most recent version of OSX. I also use the most recent version Apple's Logic Pro (v. 9.1.8), which when installed ran in 32-bit mode by default. It also runs in 64-bit mode but I had to explicitly reset an out-of-the-way checkbox in order to get this to occur. That version was released in October 2012, I believe. Logic Pro is NOT a "built-in" app, but it is the "professional" level DAW provided by Apple.
>
> I'm not sure how this information informs your decision. I hope this information is helpful.
>
> -Lou Cohen
>
> On May 13, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> [Cross-posting as it relates to developers and users]
>>
>> I'm currently working on a homebrew [1] file for Csound (with very
>> much appreciated help from members on the dev list!).  Up until now,
>> for releases I've been doing universal builds for OSX, building fat
>> binaries of all the dependencies and executables (using i386 and
>> x86_64).  My plan is to drop support for i386 in the 10.8 builds I've
>> been doing, and only use x86_64. I also plan to use the same libraries
>> I install with homebrew that I do for the installer.   To suppor this,
>> I was trying to find out when 64-bit OSX became the default. I saw
>> this note in the Wikipedia entry for OSX:
>>
>> "Mac OS X 10.7 "Lion" was the first version of OS X to drop support
>> for 32-bit Intel processors and run exclusively on 64-bit Intel CPUs."
>> [2]
>>
>> Also, Apple's developer documentation mentions:
>>
>> "OS X v10.8 uses a 64-bit kernel and fully supports 64-bit
>> applications. The 64-bit kernel was originally introduced in OS X
>> v10.6 (on some models of Mac hardware), and 64-bit application support
>> was introduced in v10.5. Command-line 64-bit support was introduced in
>> v10.4." [3]
>>
>> and:
>>
>> "In OS X v10.7 and later, all Apple applications shipping as part of
>> the OS are 64-bit executables. This means that users with
>> 64-bit-capable computers will be running the 64-bit slice of key
>> system components. And beginning in OS X v10.8 and later, built-in
>> apps are generally 64-bit-only. This means that any plug-ins (screen
>> savers, printer dialog extensions, and so on) that need to load in
>> these applications must be recompiled as 64-bit plug-ins." [4]
>>
>> With this plan, the 10.8 Csound installer release should be guaranteed
>> to run on 10.8.  We currently do two releases on OSX, one for 10.8 by
>> me and one for 10.6 by Victor.  I think between the two we should be
>> covered.
>>
>> The one thing I can think of is that we could spend some time to
>> revise the build system such that it uses the -mmacosx-version-min
>> compilation flag, use universal builds, and potentially release a
>> single installer that could cover a number of OSX versions.  I think
>> that could potentially be a very good thing, but that it would also
>> require a good bit of time to explore and test.
>>
>> If anyone has reasons I should not drop i386 for the 10.8 release,
>> please let me know.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> steven
>>
>>
>> [1] - http://www.brew.sh
>> [2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X
>> [3] - https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/64bitPorting/intro/intro.html
>> [4] - https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/64bitPorting/indications/indications.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001064-CH206-TPXREF101
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>
> Lou Cohen
> www.jolc.net
> www.opensound.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>