"A tritone is made up of three tones"---

well,... more specifically, it's a three whole tone interval.
Play a C and F# together, or a B-natural and F-natural 
together. A "tritone" also known as "diabolus de la musica"
or the "devil in the music". 

As opposed to say a "Tierce de Picardie" or Picardie third,
where you end a minor key section of music with a major tonic
resolution on the final harmonic cadence. Which has a more
pleasant sound. It's named after the province of Picardy in 
France, where this music device was used in cathedral music.


-Partev


==========================================================


--- richarddobson@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

From: Richard Dobson 
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: music theory (was re:Xenakis)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:04:04 +0000

On 13/01/2011 09:53, kelly hirai wrote:
> i thought the tritone was the interval between the 3rd and the 7th of a
> dominate 7th chord. i can't do the math of the top of my head this late
> at night though but the 5th harmonic and the 3rd harmonic of the 3rd
> harmonic. 1/5:1/9 ??? kelly
>


A tritone is made up of three tones. Of course, how it is tuned depends 
on how the tones are tuned; and as we know tones are variable.

People seem still to be of the impression that the names of intervals 
somehow directly describe their tuning. They do not (not even in the 
case of the "perfect" intervals). Tuning is certainly a closely related 
issue, but technically a separate one. The names of intervals refer 
primarily to notation (mental or written), reflecting the natural 
"white-note" scale on which the staff is based - i.e. how the notes are 
~spelled~. Thus any two notes either on adjacent lines or on adjacent 
spaces on the staff are "a third apart". What they sound like depends on 
the spelling (B# to Db etc), and only thereafter on what conventions are 
used for tuning that set of twelve (or more) semitones; whether 
Pythagorean, Just, Mean or plain guesswork.

 From this has come the principle, based largely on the principle of 
Occam's razor, of saying, on hearing a particular interval, what the 
interval most probably is. This favours accidentals the least removed 
from the natural C scale. So, Eb rather than D#, and B rather than Cb. A 
semitone is ~usually~ a minor second, so that is a reasonable answer. A 
more 50:50 example would be "minor sixth" or "augmented fifth" - both 
would be accepted as a correct answer in an aural test.  I don't know 
what they do these days, but in the Good Old Days the examiner would ask 
a follow up: "Augmented fifth? Correct. If the lower note is a C, what 
is the upper note?". If the student then says Ab, that would be the 
wrong answer.

In short - the acid test of all this is not whether you can describe the 
interval in terms of ratios (yawn), but whether you can (a) sing or play 
it back and (b) write down the passage from dictation ~as it was written 
by the composer~.

Now I do agree that there could be some utility in having more 
notation-independent names for intervals, to accompany the tritone, but 
we don't have them. We could invent them easily enough - the bintone, 
the quartone, the heptone, and probably the dodecasemitone and the 
pantone ... but getting people to use them is probably not going to be 
so easy.

And everyone will still disagree on how they are tuned.


Richard Dobson



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_____________________________________________________________
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An interesting footnote on the '"Tierce de Picardie" which I recently learned about:
It was actually necessary for music played in cathedrals, because the reverbarating key note would generate an overtone which sounded closer to the major third, so a minor third would cause a dissonance.

Crazy, isn't it :)
 
>"A tritone is made up of three tones"---
>
>well,... more specifically, it's a three whole tone interval.
>Play a C and F# together, or a B-natural and F-natural 
>together. A "tritone" also known as "diabolus de la musica"
>or the "devil in the music". 
>
>As opposed to say a "Tierce de Picardie" or Picardie third,
>where you end a minor key section of music with a major tonic
>resolution on the final harmonic cadence. Which has a more
>pleasant sound. It's named after the province of Picardy in 
>France, where this music device was used in cathedral music.
>
>
>-Partev
>
>
>==========================================================
>
>
>--- richarddobson@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>
>From: Richard Dobson 
>To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: music theory (was re:Xenakis)
>Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:04:04 +0000
>
>On 13/01/2011 09:53, kelly hirai wrote:
>> i thought the tritone was the interval between the 3rd and the 7th of a
>> dominate 7th chord. i can't do the math of the top of my head this late
>> at night though but the 5th harmonic and the 3rd harmonic of the 3rd
>> harmonic. 1/5:1/9 ??? kelly
>>
>
>
>A tritone is made up of three tones. Of course, how it is tuned depends 
>on how the tones are tuned; and as we know tones are variable.
>
>People seem still to be of the impression that the names of intervals 
>somehow directly describe their tuning. They do not (not even in the 
>case of the "perfect" intervals). Tuning is certainly a closely related 
>issue, but technically a separate one. The names of intervals refer 
>primarily to notation (mental or written), reflecting the natural 
>"white-note" scale on which the staff is based - i.e. how the notes are 
>~spelled~. Thus any two notes either on adjacent lines or on adjacent 
>spaces on the staff are "a third apart". What they sound like depends on 
>the spelling (B# to Db etc), and only thereafter on what conventions are 
>used for tuning that set of twelve (or more) semitones; whether 
>Pythagorean, Just, Mean or plain guesswork.
>
> From this has come the principle, based largely on the principle of 
>Occam's razor, of saying, on hearing a particular interval, what the 
>interval most probably is. This favours accidentals the least removed 
>from the natural C scale. So, Eb rather than D#, and B rather than Cb. A 
>semitone is ~usually~ a minor second, so that is a reasonable answer. A 
>more 50:50 example would be "minor sixth" or "augmented fifth" - both 
>would be accepted as a correct answer in an aural test.  I don't know 
>what they do these days, but in the Good Old Days the examiner would ask 
>a follow up: "Augmented fifth? Correct. If the lower note is a C, what 
>is the upper note?". If the student then says Ab, that would be the 
>wrong answer.
>
>In short - the acid test of all this is not whether you can describe the 
>interval in terms of ratios (yawn), but whether you can (a) sing or play 
>it back and (b) write down the passage from dictation ~as it was written 
>by the composer~.
>
>Now I do agree that there could be some utility in having more 
>notation-independent names for intervals, to accompany the tritone, but 
>we don't have them. We could invent them easily enough - the bintone, 
>the quartone, the heptone, and probably the dodecasemitone and the 
>pantone ... but getting people to use them is probably not going to be 
>so easy.
>
>And everyone will still disagree on how they are tuned.
>
>
>Richard Dobson
>
>
>
>Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>
>
>
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
>
>
>Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
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On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 5:38 AM, Partev Barr Sarkissian
 wrote:
> "A tritone is made up of three tones"---
>
> well,... more specifically, it's a three whole tone interval.
> Play a C and F# together, or a B-natural and F-natural
> together. A "tritone" also known as "diabolus de la musica"
> or the "devil in the music".
>
> As opposed to say a "Tierce de Picardie" or Picardie third,
> where you end a minor key section of music with a major tonic
> resolution on the final harmonic cadence. Which has a more
> pleasant sound. It's named after the province of Picardy in
> France, where this music device was used in cathedral music.

Did the conductor say, "NUMBER ONE, ENGAGE," at the end of the piece?
:)

-Chuckk



>
>
> -Partev
>
>
> ==========================================================
>
>
> --- richarddobson@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>
> From: Richard Dobson 
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: music theory (was re:Xenakis)
> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:04:04 +0000
>
> On 13/01/2011 09:53, kelly hirai wrote:
>> i thought the tritone was the interval between the 3rd and the 7th of a
>> dominate 7th chord. i can't do the math of the top of my head this late
>> at night though but the 5th harmonic and the 3rd harmonic of the 3rd
>> harmonic. 1/5:1/9 ??? kelly
>>
>
>
> A tritone is made up of three tones. Of course, how it is tuned depends
> on how the tones are tuned; and as we know tones are variable.
>
> People seem still to be of the impression that the names of intervals
> somehow directly describe their tuning. They do not (not even in the
> case of the "perfect" intervals). Tuning is certainly a closely related
> issue, but technically a separate one. The names of intervals refer
> primarily to notation (mental or written), reflecting the natural
> "white-note" scale on which the staff is based - i.e. how the notes are
> ~spelled~. Thus any two notes either on adjacent lines or on adjacent
> spaces on the staff are "a third apart". What they sound like depends on
> the spelling (B# to Db etc), and only thereafter on what conventions are
> used for tuning that set of twelve (or more) semitones; whether
> Pythagorean, Just, Mean or plain guesswork.
>
>  From this has come the principle, based largely on the principle of
> Occam's razor, of saying, on hearing a particular interval, what the
> interval most probably is. This favours accidentals the least removed
> from the natural C scale. So, Eb rather than D#, and B rather than Cb. A
> semitone is ~usually~ a minor second, so that is a reasonable answer. A
> more 50:50 example would be "minor sixth" or "augmented fifth" - both
> would be accepted as a correct answer in an aural test.  I don't know
> what they do these days, but in the Good Old Days the examiner would ask
> a follow up: "Augmented fifth? Correct. If the lower note is a C, what
> is the upper note?". If the student then says Ab, that would be the
> wrong answer.
>
> In short - the acid test of all this is not whether you can describe the
> interval in terms of ratios (yawn), but whether you can (a) sing or play
> it back and (b) write down the passage from dictation ~as it was written
> by the composer~.
>
> Now I do agree that there could be some utility in having more
> notation-independent names for intervals, to accompany the tritone, but
> we don't have them. We could invent them easily enough - the bintone,
> the quartone, the heptone, and probably the dodecasemitone and the
> pantone ... but getting people to use them is probably not going to be
> so easy.
>
> And everyone will still disagree on how they are tuned.
>
>
> Richard Dobson
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



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