Sorry for this other trivial question.
Is foscil related to the sr chosen?
Because i get different results using same csd with different sr.

thanks,
ciao,
francesco.

Well it depends. FM can easily generate aliasing, which might  
disappear if you change the SR (upwards), and
vice-versa, you might get (more) aliasing if you change it downwards.

Victor
On 13 Jan 2011, at 12:13, francesco wrote:

>
> Sorry for this other trivial question.
> Is foscil related to the sr chosen?
> Because i get different results using same csd with different sr.
>
> thanks,
> ciao,
> francesco.
>
>
> -- 
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/foscil-tp3339676p3339676.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>



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Yes thank You.
I think that the example in foscil manual page is wrong,
because mod and carrier in the opcode are multiplier of
cps freq, and in the example this are:

cps = 440
carrier = 600
mod = 210

Am i right that this values are wrong?

thanks again,
ciao,
francesco

the manual nis a collective document with some very hard-working
individuals taking a lead.  All users cane help by pointing out errors and
defficiencies.  That is how it works


> It seems like one of the greatest things to be done for Csound is the
> fixing
> of the manual: more and better examples, missing opcodes from the grouped
> exposition in the subject index (I mentioned that 'mode' is missing from
> being mentioned in either the Physical Modelling or Filters sections,
> although it is in the alphabetical index)
>
> AKJ
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:40 AM, adam faranda
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I agree, the example csd looks weird: If xcar and xmod are factors, then
>> I'd expect to see somthing like this:
>>
>> cps = 440 ; base frequency
>> car  = 1.5 ; carrier frequency = 1.5 * 440 = 660
>> mod = 0.5 ; mod freq = 0.5 * 440 = 220
>>
>> If cps is 440, and car is 600, the carrier frequency would end up being
>> 440
>> * 600 = 240000. This would just produce a lot of aliasing and junk.
>>
>> I'll test it out when I have a moment.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Aaron Krister Johnson
> http://www.akjmusic.com
> http://www.untwelve.org
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>




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cps, car, mod, and index (aka depth) all effect the possibility of foldover of frequencies, because increasing any of them will push the spectrum upward.

Also, regarding frequency foldover and FM, I would contend that "incorrect" is a bit subjective - there are valid uses of frequency foldover.

Coincidentially enough, I have been working on a set of instruments to recreate the sound of mid '90s Japanese harsh noise (Merzbow, Massonna, etc) and FM pushed well into the range of spectrum foldover + harsh digital clipping / waveshaping by jagged wavetables (causing yet more foldover) seems a decent way of achieving those sounds (the wisdom of wanting to make or hear those sounds is of course still up for debate - but that is a great way to make them).

Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
> Yes, and also, aliasing is connected to modulation depth. IN my
> understanding, one can have unaliased FM at any sample rate provided that
> the modulation depth remains sane in relation to the nyquist frequency. Or
> am I wrong?
> 
> AKJ
> 
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Victor Lazzarini
> wrote:
> 
>> Well it depends. FM can easily generate aliasing, which might disappear if
>> you change the SR (upwards), and
>> vice-versa, you might get (more) aliasing if you change it downwards.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On 13 Jan 2011, at 12:13, francesco wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Sorry for this other trivial question.
>>> Is foscil related to the sr chosen?
>>> Because i get different results using same csd with different sr.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> ciao,
>>> francesco.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/foscil-tp3339676p3339676.html
>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
> 
> 



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I hit send too soon

my personal philosophy regarding audio synthesis is that there is no "wrong" technique a-priori - every distortion has a musical use (even if that use needs to be invented still, it is a potential that exists). Frequency foldover is calculable, predictable, and a straightforward way to get very rich metallic spectrums in the chaotic space between tone and noise without using much CPU power.

In other words: keep the example in the manual as is, add the note "foldover is being used intentionally here, and its effects will vary with your sr settings"

Also, pedantically: with a base or modulation frequency equal to or higher than the Nyquist frequency, no modulation depth is possible that will not fold over.

Justin Glenn Smith wrote:
> cps, car, mod, and index (aka depth) all effect the possibility of foldover of frequencies, because increasing any of them will push the spectrum upward.
> 
> Also, regarding frequency foldover and FM, I would contend that "incorrect" is a bit subjective - there are valid uses of frequency foldover.
> 
> Coincidentially enough, I have been working on a set of instruments to recreate the sound of mid '90s Japanese harsh noise (Merzbow, Massonna, etc) and FM pushed well into the range of spectrum foldover + harsh digital clipping / waveshaping by jagged wavetables (causing yet more foldover) seems a decent way of achieving those sounds (the wisdom of wanting to make or hear those sounds is of course still up for debate - but that is a great way to make them).
> 
> Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
>> Yes, and also, aliasing is connected to modulation depth. IN my
>> understanding, one can have unaliased FM at any sample rate provided that
>> the modulation depth remains sane in relation to the nyquist frequency. Or
>> am I wrong?
>>
>> AKJ
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well it depends. FM can easily generate aliasing, which might disappear if
>>> you change the SR (upwards), and
>>> vice-versa, you might get (more) aliasing if you change it downwards.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>> On 13 Jan 2011, at 12:13, francesco wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sorry for this other trivial question.
>>>> Is foscil related to the sr chosen?
>>>> Because i get different results using same csd with different sr.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> ciao,
>>>> francesco.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/foscil-tp3339676p3339676.html
>>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 



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yes you are right.
i have made a note of it and i think i will reach the letter F within 2 weeks. 
This will be rectified in cvs.
thanks
Menno
 http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/6789/
http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7428/



----- Original Message ----
From: francesco 
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 1:51:53 PM
Subject: [Csnd] Re: foscil


Yes thank You.
I think that the example in foscil manual page is wrong,
because mod and carrier in the opcode are multiplier of
cps freq, and in the example this are:

cps = 440
carrier = 600
mod = 210

Am i right that this values are wrong?

thanks again,
ciao,
francesco