"In the sense that there is a story: the music tells something or 
describe something (heroic symphony, la mer, etc.)
A story implies a language, implies a representation"-----

In DeBussy's case, painting sonic pictures and 'impressions',
hence the term Impressionist. And he was part of that period,
hanging out with the likes of Stravinsky and Picasso.

======

"If I don't get the representation, I can't understand the language, 
I miss the music"----

Sometimes that's the result. Sometimes I have listen to or read 
something more than once before I get it. We are born knowing 
language, it's a learning prcocess. I didn't learn English or 
learn to read music overnight, music is a language like any 
other. It's this need to communicate and express. Part of the 
experience of what makes humans, human, and the human experience.

======

"... as is the case for me, if I see the language as gross I'm put off 
and can't get lost in the story. Unsubtle narrative: that's what I feel 
about Beethoven. You get none of this in Indian classical music ..."----

In classical Indian music, it's there, it's just not obvious. It's 
like a Shakespeare and his hidden metaphors and play on words and
phrases, there are hidden innuendos in his works that would go over
the heads of most people. Takes me several reading before I stumble 
into them. Same thing with classical Indian music (and some Ragas).

Even the works of Xenakis can draw pictures and impressions, it's a
matter of opening up to it. Edgar Froese of Tangerine Dream did an
album called "Aqua". On it was a piece "NGC989" (I think),... 
zoned-out on that one for a while, let it play with my head,.... 
a trip better than drugs.

========

Like I always say,.... "it's all about potentials and possibilities".

========


-Partev



===============================================================



--- lecteur@zogotounga.net wrote:

From: Stéphane Rollandin 
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re : Re: Re: Xenakis
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 23:00:04 +0100

> I don't see how Bach or Beethoven or Debussy's music is about specific
> representations.

In the sense that there is a story: the music tells something or 
describe something (heroic symphony, la mer, etc.)

A story implies a language, implies a representation. If I don't get the 
representation, I can't understand the language, I miss the music.

Or, as is the case for me, if I see the language as gross I'm put off 
and can't get lost in the story. Unsubtle narrative: that's what I feel 
about Beethoven.

You get none of this in Indian classical music for example.

>
> Nor do I see how musical thinking and experience can be devoid of
> metaphor and extrinsic influences. Xenakis was very much working with
> metaphors, visual and spatial ones

But no narration nor description. Metaphors as structures only.


Stef


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_____________________________________________________________
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In today's paper, this article may be relevent to the discssion

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/jan/09/why-we-love-music-research>




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On 1/9/2011 11:33 PM, jpff [via Csound] wrote:
> In today's paper, this article may be relevent to the discssion
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/jan/09/why-we-love-music-research>

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing this.

--JA