I took a bath today with my little daughter. Splish splash. Being a
musician/sound designer and actively interested in sound and its synthesis,
it occured to me: imitating a hand splashing bath water would be a helluva
pure synthesis task. Or would it?

Anyway up for trying to create realistic sounding splashes of bath water? If
not, how do you think you'd approach the problem? What about if FFT analysis
and resynthesis were out of the question?

I noticed the first posting, just did not have time to respond. Sorry.
The challenge is an interesting one.... but immersed in other things
right now :-)
Oeyvind

2011/1/13 Aaron Krister Johnson :
> I'm resending this, sorry, it looked like it didn't get through?
>
> Anyway, I thought this would be an interesting synthesis challenge. I half
> imagine it to be a related problem to 'shaker' in the physical models
> section. Since that one is 'solved', I figure this one might have a
> solution.
>
> AKJ
>
> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Aaron Krister Johnson 
> wrote:
>>
>> I took a bath today with my little daughter. Splish splash. Being a
>> musician/sound designer and actively interested in sound and its synthesis,
>> it occured to me: imitating a hand splashing bath water would be a helluva
>> pure synthesis task. Or would it?
>>
>> Anyway up for trying to create realistic sounding splashes of bath water?
>> If not, how do you think you'd approach the problem? What about if FFT
>> analysis and resynthesis were out of the question?
>>
>> --
>> Aaron Krister Johnson
>> http://www.akjmusic.com
>> http://www.untwelve.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Aaron Krister Johnson
> http://www.akjmusic.com
> http://www.untwelve.org
>
>


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I have always thought that the artifacts of audio compression, like
the audio on a very low bit rate YouTube video for example, has a very
watery characteristic to it. Any idea of what is causing that effect
and how it might be replicated?

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Oeyvind Brandtsegg
 wrote:
> I noticed the first posting, just did not have time to respond. Sorry.
> The challenge is an interesting one.... but immersed in other things
> right now :-)
> Oeyvind
>
> 2011/1/13 Aaron Krister Johnson :
>> I'm resending this, sorry, it looked like it didn't get through?
>>
>> Anyway, I thought this would be an interesting synthesis challenge. I half
>> imagine it to be a related problem to 'shaker' in the physical models
>> section. Since that one is 'solved', I figure this one might have a
>> solution.
>>
>> AKJ
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Aaron Krister Johnson 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I took a bath today with my little daughter. Splish splash. Being a
>>> musician/sound designer and actively interested in sound and its synthesis,
>>> it occured to me: imitating a hand splashing bath water would be a helluva
>>> pure synthesis task. Or would it?
>>>
>>> Anyway up for trying to create realistic sounding splashes of bath water?
>>> If not, how do you think you'd approach the problem? What about if FFT
>>> analysis and resynthesis were out of the question?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Aaron Krister Johnson
>>> http://www.akjmusic.com
>>> http://www.untwelve.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Aaron Krister Johnson
>> http://www.akjmusic.com
>> http://www.untwelve.org
>>
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


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They always sound like FFT artefacts to me;

On 13 January 2011 17:18, Aidan Collins  wrote:
> I have always thought that the artifacts of audio compression, like
> the audio on a very low bit rate YouTube video for example, has a very
> watery characteristic to it. Any idea of what is causing that effect
> and how it might be replicated?
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Oeyvind Brandtsegg
>  wrote:
>> I noticed the first posting, just did not have time to respond. Sorry.
>> The challenge is an interesting one.... but immersed in other things
>> right now :-)
>> Oeyvind
>>
>> 2011/1/13 Aaron Krister Johnson :
>>> I'm resending this, sorry, it looked like it didn't get through?
>>>
>>> Anyway, I thought this would be an interesting synthesis challenge. I half
>>> imagine it to be a related problem to 'shaker' in the physical models
>>> section. Since that one is 'solved', I figure this one might have a
>>> solution.
>>>
>>> AKJ
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Aaron Krister Johnson 
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I took a bath today with my little daughter. Splish splash. Being a
>>>> musician/sound designer and actively interested in sound and its synthesis,
>>>> it occured to me: imitating a hand splashing bath water would be a helluva
>>>> pure synthesis task. Or would it?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway up for trying to create realistic sounding splashes of bath water?
>>>> If not, how do you think you'd approach the problem? What about if FFT
>>>> analysis and resynthesis were out of the question?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Aaron Krister Johnson
>>>> http://www.akjmusic.com
>>>> http://www.untwelve.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Aaron Krister Johnson
>>> http://www.akjmusic.com
>>> http://www.untwelve.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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>
>


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short sine tones with (iirc) sawtooth shaped envelopes. Should be quite easy to figure out with oscil and linseg.

also, I recently learned the word for those artifacts, they are called "breebles". They are caused by the DCT analysis not having enough bins to account for the full frequency spectrum, so certain frequencies are overemphasized in the resynthesis the decoder does - but *which* frequencies are being overemphasized changes rapidly over time, causing the breebling babbling brook effect.

Aidan Collins wrote:
> I have always thought that the artifacts of audio compression, like
> the audio on a very low bit rate YouTube video for example, has a very
> watery characteristic to it. Any idea of what is causing that effect
> and how it might be replicated?
> 
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Oeyvind Brandtsegg
>  wrote:
>> I noticed the first posting, just did not have time to respond. Sorry.
>> The challenge is an interesting one.... but immersed in other things
>> right now :-)
>> Oeyvind
>>
>> 2011/1/13 Aaron Krister Johnson :
>>> I'm resending this, sorry, it looked like it didn't get through?
>>>
>>> Anyway, I thought this would be an interesting synthesis challenge. I half
>>> imagine it to be a related problem to 'shaker' in the physical models
>>> section. Since that one is 'solved', I figure this one might have a
>>> solution.
>>>
>>> AKJ
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Aaron Krister Johnson 
>>> wrote:
>>>> I took a bath today with my little daughter. Splish splash. Being a
>>>> musician/sound designer and actively interested in sound and its synthesis,
>>>> it occured to me: imitating a hand splashing bath water would be a helluva
>>>> pure synthesis task. Or would it?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway up for trying to create realistic sounding splashes of bath water?
>>>> If not, how do you think you'd approach the problem? What about if FFT
>>>> analysis and resynthesis were out of the question?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Aaron Krister Johnson
>>>> http://www.akjmusic.com
>>>> http://www.untwelve.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Aaron Krister Johnson
>>> http://www.akjmusic.com
>>> http://www.untwelve.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 



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Hi,

Is it really due to the number of analysis bins? I would think it's
more to do with the destructive psychoacoustically modelled masking,
since the artifacts increase as you lower bit rate of the file, but
the number of analysis and resynthesis bins remain the same.

Cheers,
Andres

On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Justin Glenn Smith
 wrote:
> short sine tones with (iirc) sawtooth shaped envelopes. Should be quite easy to figure out with oscil and linseg.
>
> also, I recently learned the word for those artifacts, they are called "breebles". They are caused by the DCT analysis not having enough bins to account for the full frequency spectrum, so certain frequencies are overemphasized in the resynthesis the decoder does - but *which* frequencies are being overemphasized changes rapidly over time, causing the breebling babbling brook effect.
>
> Aidan Collins wrote:
>> I have always thought that the artifacts of audio compression, like
>> the audio on a very low bit rate YouTube video for example, has a very
>> watery characteristic to it. Any idea of what is causing that effect
>> and how it might be replicated?
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Oeyvind Brandtsegg
>>  wrote:
>>> I noticed the first posting, just did not have time to respond. Sorry.
>>> The challenge is an interesting one.... but immersed in other things
>>> right now :-)
>>> Oeyvind
>>>
>>> 2011/1/13 Aaron Krister Johnson :
>>>> I'm resending this, sorry, it looked like it didn't get through?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I thought this would be an interesting synthesis challenge. I half
>>>> imagine it to be a related problem to 'shaker' in the physical models
>>>> section. Since that one is 'solved', I figure this one might have a
>>>> solution.
>>>>
>>>> AKJ
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Aaron Krister Johnson 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I took a bath today with my little daughter. Splish splash. Being a
>>>>> musician/sound designer and actively interested in sound and its synthesis,
>>>>> it occured to me: imitating a hand splashing bath water would be a helluva
>>>>> pure synthesis task. Or would it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway up for trying to create realistic sounding splashes of bath water?
>>>>> If not, how do you think you'd approach the problem? What about if FFT
>>>>> analysis and resynthesis were out of the question?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Aaron Krister Johnson
>>>>> http://www.akjmusic.com
>>>>> http://www.untwelve.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Aaron Krister Johnson
>>>> http://www.akjmusic.com
>>>> http://www.untwelve.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


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Yes, you are probably right. The effect could be replicated by dropping bins in the resynthesis (and maybe also sustaining some bins?).

Andres Cabrera wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is it really due to the number of analysis bins? I would think it's
> more to do with the destructive psychoacoustically modelled masking,
> since the artifacts increase as you lower bit rate of the file, but
> the number of analysis and resynthesis bins remain the same.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andres
> 
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Justin Glenn Smith
>  wrote:
>> short sine tones with (iirc) sawtooth shaped envelopes. Should be quite easy to figure out with oscil and linseg.
>>
>> also, I recently learned the word for those artifacts, they are called "breebles". They are caused by the DCT analysis not having enough bins to account for the full frequency spectrum, so certain frequencies are overemphasized in the resynthesis the decoder does - but *which* frequencies are being overemphasized changes rapidly over time, causing the breebling babbling brook effect.
>>
>> Aidan Collins wrote:
>>> I have always thought that the artifacts of audio compression, like
>>> the audio on a very low bit rate YouTube video for example, has a very
>>> watery characteristic to it. Any idea of what is causing that effect
>>> and how it might be replicated?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Oeyvind Brandtsegg
>>>  wrote:
>>>> I noticed the first posting, just did not have time to respond. Sorry.
>>>> The challenge is an interesting one.... but immersed in other things
>>>> right now :-)
>>>> Oeyvind
>>>>
>>>> 2011/1/13 Aaron Krister Johnson :
>>>>> I'm resending this, sorry, it looked like it didn't get through?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I thought this would be an interesting synthesis challenge. I half
>>>>> imagine it to be a related problem to 'shaker' in the physical models
>>>>> section. Since that one is 'solved', I figure this one might have a
>>>>> solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> AKJ
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Aaron Krister Johnson 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I took a bath today with my little daughter. Splish splash. Being a
>>>>>> musician/sound designer and actively interested in sound and its synthesis,
>>>>>> it occured to me: imitating a hand splashing bath water would be a helluva
>>>>>> pure synthesis task. Or would it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway up for trying to create realistic sounding splashes of bath water?
>>>>>> If not, how do you think you'd approach the problem? What about if FFT
>>>>>> analysis and resynthesis were out of the question?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Aaron Krister Johnson
>>>>>> http://www.akjmusic.com
>>>>>> http://www.untwelve.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Aaron Krister Johnson
>>>>> http://www.akjmusic.com
>>>>> http://www.untwelve.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 



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