Hi, I have some troubles with genarray / lenarray opcodes.

Let's suppose we have the following code:

iStart      =           1
iEnd        =           9

iCnt        =           0
while (iCnt < 2) do
    iArray[]    genarray    iStart + iCnt, iEnd - iCnt, 2
                print       lenarray(iArray)
    iCnt        +=          1
od

After the FIRST iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [1 3 5 7 9], so lenarray(iArray) should be 5.
After the SECOND iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [1 3 5 7], so lenarray(iArray) should be 4.

Instead, strangely, the actual output from lenarray is 5 for both the above cases.

Now, if In the above code, if I replace 'genarray' with a call to the following UDO that should do the same thing of the native genarray opcode:

opcode genArray, i[], iip
    iStart, \
    iEnd,   \
    iStep   xin     ; default = 1
    
    iSize   =       floor((iEnd - iStart) / iStep + 1)
    iArr[]  init    iSize
    
    indx    =       0
    while (indx < iSize) do
        iArr[indx]  =   iStart
        iStart      +=  iStep
        indx        +=  1
    od
    
            xout    iArr
endop

then Csound returns correctly 5 and 4, as I would expect.

Is this a bug?

Regards,
Mauro

Sorry, a little errata corrige on my previous mail:

[...]
After the FIRST iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [1 3 5 7 9], so lenarray(iArray) should be 5.
After the SECOND iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [2 4 6 8], so lenarray(iArray) should be 4.
[...]

Il 2018-09-25 19:05 Mauro Giubileo ha scritto:

Hi, I have some troubles with genarray / lenarray opcodes.

Let's suppose we have the following code:

iStart      =           1
iEnd        =           9

iCnt        =           0
while (iCnt < 2) do
    iArray[]    genarray    iStart + iCnt, iEnd - iCnt, 2
                print       lenarray(iArray)
    iCnt        +=          1
od

After the FIRST iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [1 3 5 7 9], so lenarray(iArray) should be 5.
After the SECOND iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [1 3 5 7], so lenarray(iArray) should be 4.

Instead, strangely, the actual output from lenarray is 5 for both the above cases.

Now, if In the above code, if I replace 'genarray' with a call to the following UDO that should do the same thing of the native genarray opcode:

opcode genArray, i[], iip
    iStart, \
    iEnd,   \
    iStep   xin     ; default = 1
    
    iSize   =       floor((iEnd - iStart) / iStep + 1)
    iArr[]  init    iSize
    
    indx    =       0
    while (indx < iSize) do
        iArr[indx]  =   iStart
        iStart      +=  iStep
        indx        +=  1
    od
    
            xout    iArr
endop

then Csound returns correctly 5 and 4, as I would expect.

Is this a bug?

Regards,
Mauro

Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

I suspect this is by design.  The second assignment to iArray checks that 
the array is big enough.  I does not shorten it but may lengthen.

Now to argue about what is right!


On Tue, 25 Sep 2018, Mauro Giubileo wrote:

> 
> Sorry, a little errata corrige on my previous mail:
> 
> [...]
> After the FIRST iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [1 3 5 7 9], so
> lenarray(iArray) should be 5.
> After the SECOND iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [2 4 6 8], so
> lenarray(iArray) should be 4.
> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> Il 2018-09-25 19:05 Mauro Giubileo ha scritto:
>
>       Hi, I have some troubles with genarray / lenarray opcodes.
>
>       Let's suppose we have the following code:
>
>       iStart      =           1
>       iEnd        =           9
>
>       iCnt        =           0
>       while (iCnt < 2) do
>           iArray[]    genarray    iStart + iCnt, iEnd - iCnt, 2
>                       print       lenarray(iArray)
>           iCnt        +=          1
>       od
>
>       After the FIRST iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [1 3
>       5 7 9], so lenarray(iArray) should be 5.
>       After the SECOND iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [1
>       3 5 7], so lenarray(iArray) should be 4.
>
>       Instead, strangely, the actual output from lenarray is 5 for both
>       the above cases.
>
>       Now, if In the above code, if I replace 'genarray' with a call to
>       the following UDO that should do the same thing of the native
>       genarray opcode:
>
>       opcode genArray, i[], iip
>           iStart, \
>           iEnd,   \
>           iStep   xin     ; default = 1
>           
>           iSize   =       floor((iEnd - iStart) / iStep + 1)
>           iArr[]  init    iSize
>           
>           indx    =       0
>           while (indx < iSize) do
>               iArr[indx]  =   iStart
>               iStart      +=  iStep
>               indx        +=  1
>           od
>           
>                   xout    iArr
>       endop
>
>       then Csound returns correctly 5 and 4, as I would expect.
>
>       Is this a bug?
> 
>
>       Regards,
>       Mauro
> 
>
>       Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>       https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>       to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>       features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here
>

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Looking at the C code, I think this behaviour is an attempt to avoid the release and reallocation of memory when you call the same genarray instruction many times in a loop, unless the new array size is bigger than the previous one. I could agree with this optimization, if it weren't for two problems it involves:

1) the 'lenarray' opcode doesn't always return the expected size of the generated array... It will return the size of its bigger allocation until that moment!

2) If you have a routine in which the same genarray instruction is used many times inside a loop and then this array is used for other array operations like:

while (...) do
  iArray[] genarray ...
  ...
  iArray2[] = $M_PI / iArray
  ...
od

Csound engine could make useless (and sometimes dangerous, like a divide by zero) operations because it will process more elements than the last genarray should have generated. For example, let's suppose the last genarray execution should generate an array of 5 elements, but some previous execution of the same genarray opcode returned an array of 100 elements, so the above instruction will process in vain 95 "ghost" elements!! They are ghosts because the user doesn't know they exist but Csound process them, being that the real length of iArray is not 5... It is its biggest allocation until now: 100 in our example! This is happened in a real situation in a Csound program on which I'm working, and for many days I could not understand what was the problem and why sometimes it crashed... Then I looked at the C code of the array opcodes and I understood the problem...

Anyway I think it should be safe and nice for all, if the genarray opcode could have an optional fourth parameter to make the user choice the desired behaviour. For example:

iArray[] genarray iStart, iEnd, iStep, iFreeAndReallocMem

 iFreeAndReallocMem == 0 (default?) => the actual (IMHO misleading) behaviour;

 iFreeAndReallocMem == 1  => genarray should "free" the memory of the actual array and reallocate a new one so that lenarray could return the right size and all the following math array operations could be done on the correct number of elements.

Unfortunately, such a change only in the genarray opcode would not be enough because I noticed that the same misleading behaviour of genarray is implemented in many other opcodes that work on arrays (like slicearray, pow, sqrt, cos, sin, etc.). The 'pow' opcode is very strange, being that "pow(iArray, 2)" behave like genarray (it creates a new array only if the new size is bigger than the previous), instead (iArray)^2 and all the other basic math operators on arrays (+, -, *, /) work correctly like I expect.

Best regards,
Mauro

Il 2018-09-25 20:48 jpff ha scritto:

I suspect this is by design.  The second assignment to iArray checks that the array is big enough.  I does not shorten it but may lengthen.

Now to argue about what is right!


On Tue, 25 Sep 2018, Mauro Giubileo wrote:

Sorry, a little errata corrige on my previous mail:

[...]
After the FIRST iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [1 3 5 7 9], so
lenarray(iArray) should be 5.
After the SECOND iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [2 4 6 8], so
lenarray(iArray) should be 4.
[...]



Il 2018-09-25 19:05 Mauro Giubileo ha scritto:

      Hi, I have some troubles with genarray / lenarray opcodes.

      Let's suppose we have the following code:

      iStart      =           1
      iEnd        =           9

      iCnt        =           0
      while (iCnt < 2) do
          iArray[]    genarray    iStart + iCnt, iEnd - iCnt, 2
                      print       lenarray(iArray)
          iCnt        +=          1
      od

      After the FIRST iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [1 3
      5 7 9], so lenarray(iArray) should be 5.
      After the SECOND iteration of the while, iArray[] should have: [1
      3 5 7], so lenarray(iArray) should be 4.

      Instead, strangely, the actual output from lenarray is 5 for both
      the above cases.

      Now, if In the above code, if I replace 'genarray' with a call to
      the following UDO that should do the same thing of the native
      genarray opcode:

      opcode genArray, i[], iip
          iStart, \
          iEnd,   \
          iStep   xin     ; default = 1
          
          iSize   =       floor((iEnd - iStart) / iStep + 1)
          iArr[]  init    iSize
          
          indx    =       0
          while (indx < iSize) do
              iArr[indx]  =   iStart
              iStart      +=  iStep
              indx        +=  1
          od
          
                  xout    iArr
      endop

      then Csound returns correctly 5 and 4, as I would expect.

      Is this a bug?


      Regards,
      Mauro


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Code now behaves as you expect.  Still can optiise it but it is crrect.

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Ok, thank you John, genarray and slicearray now work as expected, but the same problem still remains on other math opcodes that take array too as input, like

pow, sqrt, cos, cosh, sin, sinh, sininv, tan, tanh, taninv, exp, log, log10, frac, floor, ceil, abs, int.

I don't know if there are others, but generally speaking, I found this behaviour in all those opcodes modded to work with array types too...

Il 2018-09-28 22:05 jpff ha scritto:

Code now behaves as you expect.  Still can optiise it but it is crrect.

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Maybe I missed a place to change.  I found 7 and changed them.  Will look for the mathematical functions, but that is in C++

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​

On Sep 29, 2018, 08:30, at 08:30, Mauro Giubileo  wrote:
>Ok, thank you John, genarray and slicearray now work as expected, but
>the same problem still remains on other math opcodes that take array
>too
>as input, like 
>
>pow, sqrt, cos, cosh, sin, sinh, sininv, tan, tanh, taninv, exp, log,
>log10, frac, floor, ceil, abs, int. 
>
>I don't know if there are others, but generally speaking, I found this
>behaviour in all those opcodes modded to work with array types too...
>
>Il 2018-09-28 22:05 jpff ha scritto:
>
>> Code now behaves as you expect.  Still can optiise it but it is
>crrect.
>> 
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
>Csound mailing list
>Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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We can’t change the behaviour of functions because of backwards compatibility. Besides that, I
don’t agree that there is a problem with the design.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 29 Sep 2018, at 12:16, John ff  wrote:
> 
> Maybe I missed a place to change.  I found 7 and changed them.  Will look for the mathematical functions, but that is in C++
> 
> ⁣Sent from TypeApp ​
> 
> On Sep 29, 2018, 08:30, at 08:30, Mauro Giubileo  wrote:
>> Ok, thank you John, genarray and slicearray now work as expected, but
>> the same problem still remains on other math opcodes that take array
>> too
>> as input, like 
>> 
>> pow, sqrt, cos, cosh, sin, sinh, sininv, tan, tanh, taninv, exp, log,
>> log10, frac, floor, ceil, abs, int. 
>> 
>> I don't know if there are others, but generally speaking, I found this
>> behaviour in all those opcodes modded to work with array types too...
>> 
>> Il 2018-09-28 22:05 jpff ha scritto:
>> 
>>> Code now behaves as you expect.  Still can optiise it but it is
>> crrect.
>>> 
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


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I disagree.  The old behaviour was odd and unexpected.  The revised code 
creates arrays of the expected size; only the plugin.h code is out of step 
and as it stands can lead to a crash.  The function
template  class Vector : ARRAYDAT {

public:
   /** Initialise the container
    */
   void init(Csound *csound, int size) {
....

is out of step.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> We can’t change the behaviour of functions because of backwards compatibility. Besides that, I
> don’t agree that there is a problem with the design.
> ========================
> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>
>> On 29 Sep 2018, at 12:16, John ff  wrote:
>>
>> Maybe I missed a place to change.  I found 7 and changed them.  Will look for the mathematical functions, but that is in C++
>>
>> ⁣Sent from TypeApp ​
>>
>> On Sep 29, 2018, 08:30, at 08:30, Mauro Giubileo  wrote:
>>> Ok, thank you John, genarray and slicearray now work as expected, but
>>> the same problem still remains on other math opcodes that take array
>>> too
>>> as input, like
>>>
>>> pow, sqrt, cos, cosh, sin, sinh, sininv, tan, tanh, taninv, exp, log,
>>> log10, frac, floor, ceil, abs, int.
>>>
>>> I don't know if there are others, but generally speaking, I found this
>>> behaviour in all those opcodes modded to work with array types too...
>>>
>>> Il 2018-09-28 22:05 jpff ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> Code now behaves as you expect.  Still can optiise it but it is
>>> crrect.
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>

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I am not sure what it is supposed to do now then.

I never had any issues with the code as it was and these changes now broke plugin.h,
so it's a problem.

Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 29 Sep 2018, at 16:35, jpff  wrote:
> 
> I disagree.  The old behaviour was odd and unexpected.  The revised code creates arrays of the expected size; only the plugin.h code is out of step and as it stands can lead to a crash.  The function
> template  class Vector : ARRAYDAT {
> 
> public:
>  /** Initialise the container
>   */
>  void init(Csound *csound, int size) {
> ....
> 
> is out of step.
> 
>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2018, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> 
>> We can’t change the behaviour of functions because of backwards compatibility. Besides that, I
>> don’t agree that there is a problem with the design.
>> ========================
>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy,
>> Maynooth University,
>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>> 
>>> On 29 Sep 2018, at 12:16, John ff  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Maybe I missed a place to change.  I found 7 and changed them.  Will look for the mathematical functions, but that is in C++
>>> 
>>> ⁣Sent from TypeApp ​
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 29, 2018, 08:30, at 08:30, Mauro Giubileo  wrote:
>>>> Ok, thank you John, genarray and slicearray now work as expected, but
>>>> the same problem still remains on other math opcodes that take array
>>>> too
>>>> as input, like
>>>> 
>>>> pow, sqrt, cos, cosh, sin, sinh, sininv, tan, tanh, taninv, exp, log,
>>>> log10, frac, floor, ceil, abs, int.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know if there are others, but generally speaking, I found this
>>>> behaviour in all those opcodes modded to work with array types too...
>>>> 
>>>> Il 2018-09-28 22:05 jpff ha scritto:
>>>> 
>>>>> Code now behaves as you expect.  Still can optiise it but it is
>>>> crrect.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> 
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>      https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> 
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
>> 
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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I have a revised plugin.h hat builds OK.  Not found how to test yet.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> I am not sure what it is supposed to do now then.
>
> I never had any issues with the code as it was and these changes now broke plugin.h,
> so it's a problem.
>
> Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
>> On 29 Sep 2018, at 16:35, jpff  wrote:
>>
>> I disagree.  The old behaviour was odd and unexpected.  The revised code creates arrays of the expected size; only the plugin.h code is out of step and as it stands can lead to a crash.  The function
>> template  class Vector : ARRAYDAT {
>>
>> public:
>>  /** Initialise the container
>>   */
>>  void init(Csound *csound, int size) {
>> ....
>>
>> is out of step.
>>
>>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2018, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>
>>> We can’t change the behaviour of functions because of backwards compatibility. Besides that, I
>>> don’t agree that there is a problem with the design.
>>> ========================
>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy,
>>> Maynooth University,
>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>>
>>>> On 29 Sep 2018, at 12:16, John ff  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I missed a place to change.  I found 7 and changed them.  Will look for the mathematical functions, but that is in C++
>>>>
>>>> ⁣Sent from TypeApp ​
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 29, 2018, 08:30, at 08:30, Mauro Giubileo  wrote:
>>>>> Ok, thank you John, genarray and slicearray now work as expected, but
>>>>> the same problem still remains on other math opcodes that take array
>>>>> too
>>>>> as input, like
>>>>>
>>>>> pow, sqrt, cos, cosh, sin, sinh, sininv, tan, tanh, taninv, exp, log,
>>>>> log10, frac, floor, ceil, abs, int.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know if there are others, but generally speaking, I found this
>>>>> behaviour in all those opcodes modded to work with array types too...
>>>>>
>>>>> Il 2018-09-28 22:05 jpff ha scritto:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Code now behaves as you expect.  Still can optiise it but it is
>>>>> crrect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>      https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>

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you can try with the mathematical functions
and arrays. 

Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 29 Sep 2018, at 18:25, jpff  wrote:
> 
> I have a revised plugin.h hat builds OK.  Not found how to test yet.
> 
>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2018, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>> 
>> I am not sure what it is supposed to do now then.
>> 
>> I never had any issues with the code as it was and these changes now broke plugin.h,
>> so it's a problem.
>> 
>> Victor Lazzarini
>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>> 
>>> On 29 Sep 2018, at 16:35, jpff  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I disagree.  The old behaviour was odd and unexpected.  The revised code creates arrays of the expected size; only the plugin.h code is out of step and as it stands can lead to a crash.  The function
>>> template  class Vector : ARRAYDAT {
>>> 
>>> public:
>>> /** Initialise the container
>>>  */
>>> void init(Csound *csound, int size) {
>>> ....
>>> 
>>> is out of step.
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2018, Victor Lazzarini wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> We can’t change the behaviour of functions because of backwards compatibility. Besides that, I
>>>> don’t agree that there is a problem with the design.
>>>> ========================
>>>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
>>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy,
>>>> Maynooth University,
>>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>>> 
>>>>> On 29 Sep 2018, at 12:16, John ff  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe I missed a place to change.  I found 7 and changed them.  Will look for the mathematical functions, but that is in C++
>>>>> 
>>>>> ⁣Sent from TypeApp ​
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 29, 2018, 08:30, at 08:30, Mauro Giubileo  wrote:
>>>>>> Ok, thank you John, genarray and slicearray now work as expected, but
>>>>>> the same problem still remains on other math opcodes that take array
>>>>>> too
>>>>>> as input, like
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> pow, sqrt, cos, cosh, sin, sinh, sininv, tan, tanh, taninv, exp, log,
>>>>>> log10, frac, floor, ceil, abs, int.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't know if there are others, but generally speaking, I found this
>>>>>> behaviour in all those opcodes modded to work with array types too...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Il 2018-09-28 22:05 jpff ha scritto:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Code now behaves as you expect.  Still can optiise it but it is
>>>>>> crrect.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>     https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>> 
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>      https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>      https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>      https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
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Hi Victor, in a previous message (https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1809&L=CSOUND&O=D&P=174010) I described how that design could be cause of insidious bugs in your Csound programs, when you generate/process arrays inside a loop.

Best Regards,
Mauro

Il 2018-09-29 15:49 Victor Lazzarini ha scritto:

We can't change the behaviour of functions because of backwards compatibility. Besides that, I
don't agree that there is a problem with the design.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952

On 29 Sep 2018, at 12:16, John ff <jpff@CODEMIST.CO.UK> wrote:

Maybe I missed a place to change.  I found 7 and changed them.  Will look for the mathematical functions, but that is in C++

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​

On Sep 29, 2018, 08:30, at 08:30, Mauro Giubileo <mgiubileo@computeraltafed.it> wrote:

Ok, thank you John, genarray and slicearray now work as expected, but
the same problem still remains on other math opcodes that take array
too
as input, like

pow, sqrt, cos, cosh, sin, sinh, sininv, tan, tanh, taninv, exp, log,
log10, frac, floor, ceil, abs, int.

I don't know if there are others, but generally speaking, I found this
behaviour in all those opcodes modded to work with array types too...

Il 2018-09-28 22:05 jpff ha scritto:

Code now behaves as you expect.  Still can optiise it but it is

crrect.

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Hi Victor,

maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how that could be an user error.

I had to read the source code file "arrays.c" to figure out why my Csound program didn't work as I expected... I think that a Csound user should not worry about how an opcode is internally implemented to make its Csound scripts work correctly.

If I write something like:

iArray[] genarray 1, 10 * i1, 1

I think anyone would expect that soon after that statement the size of iArray should be exactly (10 * i1) wherever that statement is placed inside a Csound program. And be aware that I'm not talking about the "true" size allocated internally by the Csound engine for that array (that could very well be much bigger the size the user defined for that array, for optimization purposes), but the size the Csound user expects it should have for its algorithms to work properly from a conceptual point of view.

Let's take another example. If you write this:

i1 = 5
while (i1 > 0) do
  iArray[] genarray 1, 10 * i1, 1
  iSize    lenarray iArray
           print    iSize
  iArray   =        iArray / $M_PI
  i1       -=       1
od

In the above example, being that the reference manual says nothing about this matter, I think anyone would assume the last iArray size should be 10*1=10 elements, but before John's changes it would have been 50. That was very misleading. Moreover, the division in the above code would be done unnecessarily 50 times at each iteration, when it should be done first 50 times, then 40 times, 30 times, 20 times and lastly 10 times...

Best Regards,
Mauro

Il 2018-09-29 20:27 Victor Lazzarini ha scritto:

I saw the message, still think that is a user error and the design is correct. 

 

But I seem to have been overruled on this one.

Victor Lazzarini

Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy

Maynooth University

Ireland

On 29 Sep 2018, at 19:10, Mauro Giubileo <mgiubileo@COMPUTERALTAFED.IT> wrote:

Hi Victor, in a previous message (https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1809&L=CSOUND&O=D&P=174010) I described how that design could be cause of insidious bugs in your Csound programs, when you generate/process arrays inside a loop.

Best Regards,
Mauro

Il 2018-09-29 15:49 Victor Lazzarini ha scritto:

We can't change the behaviour of functions because of backwards compatibility. Besides that, I
don't agree that there is a problem with the design.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952

On 29 Sep 2018, at 12:16, John ff <jpff@CODEMIST.CO.UK> wrote:

Maybe I missed a place to change.  I found 7 and changed them.  Will look for the mathematical functions, but that is in C++

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​

On Sep 29, 2018, 08:30, at 08:30, Mauro Giubileo <mgiubileo@computeraltafed.it> wrote:

Ok, thank you John, genarray and slicearray now work as expected, but
the same problem still remains on other math opcodes that take array
too
as input, like

pow, sqrt, cos, cosh, sin, sinh, sininv, tan, tanh, taninv, exp, log,
log10, frac, floor, ceil, abs, int.

I don't know if there are others, but generally speaking, I found this
behaviour in all those opcodes modded to work with array types too...

Il 2018-09-28 22:05 jpff ha scritto:

Code now behaves as you expect.  Still can optiise it but it is

crrect.

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Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Hi Victor, I understand your point of view, but in my example I generate some tables only at i-time (for example, you want to precalculate some things inside a global array, before the score starts) and to me that's very different from oscillators behaviour, being that oscillators need to returns values only at control-rate.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think that i-time statements, being that by definition they have to 'initialize' things, they have to reset their internal states each time I execute them, even if I run them inside a loop. It's like I did a 'reinit' before each i-time statement, but being that I'm already in a init-time execution, I don't need to do that (and, in fact, reinit works only at control-rate, otherwise it would be permitted at i-time too).

Of course, all of this is just my opinion.

Best regards,
Mauro

Il 2018-09-30 12:29 Victor Lazzarini ha scritto:

 

 

 

Placing genarray in a loop is the user error, in the similar way that placing oscillators etc in loops doesn't lead to expected results.

 

But as I said before, I am in a minority here. The only thing to make sure is that any changes do not make the design backwards

incompatible.

Victor Lazzarini

Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy

Maynooth University

Ireland

On 30 Sep 2018, at 01:36, Mauro Giubileo <mgiubileo@COMPUTERALTAFED.IT> wrote:

Hi Victor,

maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how that could be an user error.

I had to read the source code file "arrays.c" to figure out why my Csound program didn't work as I expected... I think that a Csound user should not worry about how an opcode is internally implemented to make its Csound scripts work correctly.

If I write something like:

iArray[] genarray 1, 10 * i1, 1

I think anyone would expect that soon after that statement the size of iArray should be exactly (10 * i1) wherever that statement is placed inside a Csound program. And be aware that I'm not talking about the "true" size allocated internally by the Csound engine for that array (that could very well be much bigger the size the user defined for that array, for optimization purposes), but the size the Csound user expects it should have for its algorithms to work properly from a conceptual point of view.

Let's take another example. If you write this:

i1 = 5
while (i1 > 0) do
  iArray[] genarray 1, 10 * i1, 1
  iSize    lenarray iArray
           print    iSize
  iArray   =        iArray / $M_PI
  i1       -=       1
od

In the above example, being that the reference manual says nothing about this matter, I think anyone would assume the last iArray size should be 10*1=10 elements, but before John's changes it would have been 50. That was very misleading. Moreover, the division in the above code would be done unnecessarily 50 times at each iteration, when it should be done first 50 times, then 40 times, 30 times, 20 times and lastly 10 times...

Best Regards,
Mauro

Il 2018-09-29 20:27 Victor Lazzarini ha scritto:

I saw the message, still think that is a user error and the design is correct. 

 

But I seem to have been overruled on this one.

Victor Lazzarini

Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy

Maynooth University

Ireland

On 29 Sep 2018, at 19:10, Mauro Giubileo <mgiubileo@COMPUTERALTAFED.IT> wrote:

Hi Victor, in a previous message (https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1809&L=CSOUND&O=D&P=174010) I described how that design could be cause of insidious bugs in your Csound programs, when you generate/process arrays inside a loop.

Best Regards,
Mauro

Il 2018-09-29 15:49 Victor Lazzarini ha scritto:

We can't change the behaviour of functions because of backwards compatibility. Besides that, I
don't agree that there is a problem with the design.
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952

On 29 Sep 2018, at 12:16, John ff <jpff@CODEMIST.CO.UK> wrote:

Maybe I missed a place to change.  I found 7 and changed them.  Will look for the mathematical functions, but that is in C++

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​

On Sep 29, 2018, 08:30, at 08:30, Mauro Giubileo <mgiubileo@computeraltafed.it> wrote:

Ok, thank you John, genarray and slicearray now work as expected, but
the same problem still remains on other math opcodes that take array
too
as input, like

pow, sqrt, cos, cosh, sin, sinh, sininv, tan, tanh, taninv, exp, log,
log10, frac, floor, ceil, abs, int.

I don't know if there are others, but generally speaking, I found this
behaviour in all those opcodes modded to work with array types too...

Il 2018-09-28 22:05 jpff ha scritto:

Code now behaves as you expect.  Still can optiise it but it is

crrect.

Csound mailing list
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https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
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