Hi,

I replied to a very old thread on the developers list here

http://www.nabble.com/csndgui-toolkit-for-Python-tt7196499.html#a7196499

But despite nabble saying it has accepted the post, it hasn't resurrected
the thread to the top of the current posts window....

Apologies for any inadvertant cross posting therefore, but in the interest
of developers sanity i'll take the opportunity to migrate this onto the
general list....

*********************
**BEGIN ORIGINAL POST**

Im ressurecting this old thread as once again i'm kind of browsing around
going, err, err, gui toolkits.... err, err.... too hard, too crappy looking,
no tutorials..../ combinations thereof...

So cairo today has sparked my interest further, which leads me back to GTK,
which leads me to PyGTK, which leads me to this thread....(via a Nabble
Search) 

http://www.nabble.com/csndgui-toolkit-for-Python-tt7196499.html#a7196499

& As PyGTK seems to have a reasonably extensive tutorial...

http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/index.html

& also now comes with it's own windows installer (yippee!)

& given GTK is cross platform & used extensively...

I'm wondering if maybe this is where i should try & get started

I'm not using csound api at all at present - essentially all i'd be looking
at doing is creating some gui elements that when you hit the "publish"
button spit out some csound score (or in my case, &/or parseval score...)
the GUI elements themselves would be simply defining trajectories , ftab
shapes, or, like AlgoScore(?) used for setting ranges of stochastic
parameters (& potentially later publishing displays of realisations
thereof...) all prior to score / text data publication (& i could whip up a
Parseval score display syntax highlighting front end while i was at it...)

I also notice cairo has python bindings, & if i'm not mistaken it's useage
in python would also be PyGTK dependent??

I say this as I found this example on the net also which further prompted my
interest...

http://blog.eikke.com/index.php/ikke/2007/02/17/python_cairo_xshape_and_clocks

so, yep, around in circles i go...

& i know I just said "i dont need real time API control", but obviously this
thread (& Victor's toolkit which was discussed here in Nov 2006...) would be
of interest for me to look at - has it been developed any further? & where
is the code & examples now Victor?

Have things elsewhere developed further since Nov 2006 to give the idea
renewed merit? (maybe... nothing like a bit of wishful thinking...)

***

(& incidentally Victor since posting this i did find your 32 page
"introduction to C programming" .doc in your /temp webpage which looks like
a worthwhile read for me on the train back & forth over the next few days..)

-----
*******************
www.phasetransitions.net
hermetic music * python * csound * possibly mindless ranting
various werk in perpetual delusions of progress....

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Victor%27s-csndgui-toolkit-for-Python-%28was-2006-thread---now-2008%29-tp16000828p16000828.html
Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

See attached.

Btw this was started as an idea for OLPC, and now it has been
moved forward to work under sugar (as csndsugui). I have not
updated the csndgui code, so this one is still where it was in 2006.

Victor

At 09:32 12/03/2008, you wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I replied to a very old thread on the developers list here
>
>http://www.nabble.com/csndgui-toolkit-for-Python-tt7196499.html#a7196499
>
>But despite nabble saying it has accepted the post, it hasn't resurrected
>the thread to the top of the current posts window....
>
>Apologies for any inadvertant cross posting therefore, but in the interest
>of developers sanity i'll take the opportunity to migrate this onto the
>general list....
>
>*********************
>**BEGIN ORIGINAL POST**
>
>Im ressurecting this old thread as once again i'm kind of browsing around
>going, err, err, gui toolkits.... err, err.... too hard, too crappy looking,
>no tutorials..../ combinations thereof...
>
>So cairo today has sparked my interest further, which leads me back to GTK,
>which leads me to PyGTK, which leads me to this thread....(via a Nabble
>Search)
>
>http://www.nabble.com/csndgui-toolkit-for-Python-tt7196499.html#a7196499
>
>& As PyGTK seems to have a reasonably extensive tutorial...
>
>http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/index.html
>
>& also now comes with it's own windows installer (yippee!)
>
>& given GTK is cross platform & used extensively...
>
>I'm wondering if maybe this is where i should try & get started
>
>I'm not using csound api at all at present - essentially all i'd be looking
>at doing is creating some gui elements that when you hit the "publish"
>button spit out some csound score (or in my case, &/or parseval score...)
>the GUI elements themselves would be simply defining trajectories , ftab
>shapes, or, like AlgoScore(?) used for setting ranges of stochastic
>parameters (& potentially later publishing displays of realisations
>thereof...) all prior to score / text data publication (& i could whip up a
>Parseval score display syntax highlighting front end while i was at it...)
>
>I also notice cairo has python bindings, & if i'm not mistaken it's useage
>in python would also be PyGTK dependent??
>
>I say this as I found this example on the net also which further prompted my
>interest...
>
>http://blog.eikke.com/index.php/ikke/2007/02/17/python_cairo_xshape_and_clocks
>
>so, yep, around in circles i go...
>
>& i know I just said "i dont need real time API control", but obviously this
>thread (& Victor's toolkit which was discussed here in Nov 2006...) would be
>of interest for me to look at - has it been developed any further? & where
>is the code & examples now Victor?
>
>Have things elsewhere developed further since Nov 2006 to give the idea
>renewed merit? (maybe... nothing like a bit of wishful thinking...)
>
>***
>
>(& incidentally Victor since posting this i did find your 32 page
>"introduction to C programming" .doc in your /temp webpage which looks like
>a worthwhile read for me on the train back & forth over the next few days..)
>
>-----
>*******************
>www.phasetransitions.net
>hermetic music * python * csound * possibly mindless ranting
>various werk in perpetual delusions of progress....
>
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://www.nabble.com/Victor%27s-csndgui-toolkit-for-Python-%28was-2006-thread---now-2008%29-tp16000828p16000828.html
>Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>
>Send bugs reports to this list.
>To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe 
>csound"
Victor Lazzarini
Music Technology Laboratory
Music Department
National University of Ireland, Maynooth

Tim Mortimer wrote:
>
> Im ressurecting this old thread as once again i'm kind of browsing around
> going, err, err, gui toolkits.... err, err.... too hard, too crappy looking,
> no tutorials..../ combinations thereof...
>
>   
juce? http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/download.php

it's what max 5 will be using. It is what Grace
It has python bindings.

also Grace, the new version of Common Music, uses juce
http://pinhead.music.uiuc.edu/~hkt/grace/doc/scheme.html
http://pinhead.music.uiuc.edu/~hkt/grace/doc/csound-export.png

cheers,

eduardo

Thanks Victor,

I did think OLPC whilst looking around for this (given OLPC's meant to be
about transparency for the user down to the development level amongst other
things..) So what is the combo there? (for Csound use / graphics
development)

I'd missed sugar mentioned at all, & when i searched Nabble for csndsugui
just then i got only 1 other hit (which is wierd as when i searched at work
earlier today i got more hits that that....) But anyway if you can link me
to any overview or information as to what it's about / offers & or looks
like that'd be neat.

Now if my internet computer stops crashing every 5 mins i'll do some more
research & reply to Eduardo's post as well - that was also all news to me, &
i'm keen to find out more...


Victor Lazzarini wrote:
> 
> See attached.
> 
> Btw this was started as an idea for OLPC, and now it has been
> moved forward to work under sugar (as csndsugui). I have not
> updated the csndgui code, so this one is still where it was in 2006.
> 
> Victor
> 


-----
*******************
www.phasetransitions.net
hermetic music * python * csound * possibly mindless ranting
various werk in perpetual delusions of progress....

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Victor%27s-csndgui-toolkit-for-Python-%28was-2006-thread---now-2008%29-tp16000828p16021742.html
Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Ok Eduardo, as i just mentioned all new, all good, all sexy.

Firstly can i have some communal clarification on what Common Music was / is
about?

I thought it was "just another Csound" - & what's more not free (cost
$/euros/"whatevah")

but after some investigation it appears its on Windows, free to download,
has a full suite of generative score creation tools & GUI toolkit elements &
generates Csound score to boot?

If so, I'm definately interested in finding out more - can someone point me
to some useful info/ overview about using Common Music? (again im
experiencing a lot of crashes on this pc at the moment - so direct pointers
to useful info save me a lot of time, dialups, googles, & associated reboots
- & my initial searches for info on Common Music have been kind of disparate
& uninformative for the novice - sound familiar? ; ) although i was able to
find out above so far...)

http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/download.php

OK, juce looks interesting too - this is plan e or f on the present list,
but i'm wondering if Cabbage (whatever that is, sounds relevant & imminent
anyway...some sort of SuperLettuce assumedly...) + My desire to start
learning how to "build things from source", + Rory's associated C API
document (i saw that floating around somewhere recently...) + Victors C
intro / primer document, & now Juce add up to "Tim, it's time to download &
install a c compiler" & grapple with C... 

If so, will MSVC or whatever it's called that Michael was talking about as a
recommended compiler/ thingy suffice for all of the above? Or will Msys
MinGW (sic) also be reqd for some of the above? (it will if i add GTK to the
list, right?)

I'll look at juice further but i'm considering all this "Go C & be done with
it" as an option & am happy for gentle pushes into deeper but ultimately
more fruitful waters...(particularly as i can see the use of developing
totally API free generic GUI "templates" that just generates score or text
file... that's surely going to split the learning curve into a digestible
first slice for me would you not think ?

The net trawling continues (until next crash anyway....)




Eduardo Moguillansky wrote:
> 
> Tim Mortimer wrote:
>>
>> Im ressurecting this old thread as once again i'm kind of browsing around
>> going, err, err, gui toolkits.... err, err.... too hard, too crappy
>> looking,
>> no tutorials..../ combinations thereof...
>>
>>   
> juce? http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/download.php
> 
> it's what max 5 will be using. It is what Grace
> It has python bindings.
> 
> also Grace, the new version of Common Music, uses juce
> http://pinhead.music.uiuc.edu/~hkt/grace/doc/scheme.html
> http://pinhead.music.uiuc.edu/~hkt/grace/doc/csound-export.png
> 
> cheers,
> 
> eduardo
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
> 
> 


-----
*******************
www.phasetransitions.net
hermetic music * python * csound * possibly mindless ranting
various werk in perpetual delusions of progress....

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Victor%27s-csndgui-toolkit-for-Python-%28was-2006-thread---now-2008%29-tp16000828p16022138.html
Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

http://commonmusic.sourceforge.net/doc/cm.html

it seems that whatever common music is, is certianly very chameleon like, or
mores the point seems to only really exist in a number of multifaceted &
subtly different expressions of it's otherwise essentially illusory / non
existant "true" self ... Im sure Shantideva would have been impressed....

is it basically impossible to work with without learning lisp?

is common music lisp? 

why is "common lisp music" != "common music" then?

the fact that the tutorial was written to run in emacs i thought was pretty
funny...

http://commonmusic.sourceforge.net/etc/tutorials/index.html

If anyones looking for me im reading Notes from the metalevel to try & find
some insight....

what is common music, how does it work, & how do i access fancy score
generating / gui elements for csound using it?

-----
*******************
www.phasetransitions.net
hermetic music * python * csound * possibly mindless ranting
various werk in perpetual delusions of progress....

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Victor%27s-csndgui-toolkit-for-Python-%28was-2006-thread---now-2008%29-tp16000828p16022558.html
Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Hi Tim,
For what it's worth, my memory is that Common Music ~= Common Lisp and  
is a product, or at least was used by CCRMA.
Now someone who really knows can shoot me down if flames. :-)

Common Lisp has it's devotees, or course, as does APL, FORTH, FORTRAN,  
SNOBOL, PASCAL, ASSEMBLERS....

I looked briefly at Kymatica (which looks interesting, and thus Nasal  
(which looks like and interesting diverion for those who don't have  
enough problems translating their work from on language to another. So  
I googled NASAL PYTHON and got a comic series. That looked  
interresting! :-)

D.

On 13/03/2008, at 6:42 PM, Tim Mortimer wrote:

>
> http://commonmusic.sourceforge.net/doc/cm.html
>
> it seems that whatever common music is, is certianly very chameleon  
> like, or
> mores the point seems to only really exist in a number of  
> multifaceted &
> subtly different expressions of it's otherwise essentially  
> illusory / non
> existant "true" self ... Im sure Shantideva would have been  
> impressed....
>
> is it basically impossible to work with without learning lisp?
>
> is common music lisp?
>
> why is "common lisp music" != "common music" then?
>
> the fact that the tutorial was written to run in emacs i thought was  
> pretty
> funny...
>
> http://commonmusic.sourceforge.net/etc/tutorials/index.html
>
> If anyones looking for me im reading Notes from the metalevel to try  
> & find
> some insight....
>
> what is common music, how does it work, & how do i access fancy score
> generating / gui elements for csound using it?
>
> -----
> *******************
> www.phasetransitions.net
> hermetic music * python * csound * possibly mindless ranting
> various werk in perpetual delusions of progress....
>
> -- 
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Victor%27s-csndgui-toolkit-for-Python-%28was-2006-thread---now-2008%29-tp16000828p16022558.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>

________________________________________________
David Worrall.
- Experimental Polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
- Education for Financial Independence: www.mindthemarkets.com.au
Australian research affiliations:
- Capital Markets Cooperative Research Centre: www.cmcrc.com
- Sonic Communications Research Group:	creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg
- MARCS Auditory Laboratories: marcs.uws.edu.au