Mike,

As you probably know, Peter Robinson (pbrobinson@gmail.com) is the 
maintainer for Csound on Fedora11/Sugar on a Stick. I'm told that everything 
Csound (for that system) must pass through him. Since I sent him the email 
below (copied to you and Victor 10 days or so ago), I've not heard anything 
from him.

He did say he was very busy with other things, and would "welcome patches." 
Perhaps Victor can better characterize the process (and current situation) - 
especially as far as feedback from Sugar/Fedora to the Csound developer 
community. (I've no idea how or if this works.)

Victor did mention that a decision had been made to do a fairly full (rather 
than stripped down) version of Csound5.10 (and ongoing) for the XO (OLPC) 
and Sugar/Fedora. This is fine by me, except - as I've written previously - 
that given the fact that Sugar Csound will mostly be run realtime and on 
less powerful systems around the world by children, I hope the build will be 
float rather than double (it has been float up in the past).

I hate to bother Peter Robinson too much; I urge you, as well as Victor, to 
contact him to see how Csound5.10 as well as the crucial csound-python can 
be gotten up and running for Fedora11/Sugar on a Stick.

BTW, Felipe Sateler has been looking into the same issue (Csound/Python not 
running on Sugar on a Stick). Perhaps he can tell us what he knows as well. 
You folks know *everything* I do, as I've attempted to keep everyone 
involved informed on my end. (Of course, there's a lot I don't know.)

Art Hunkins (previous mail to Peter Robinson follows)


Hi, Peter,

Mike Gogins has come up with this fix for the Csound5.10/Python/Sugar issue
on SoaS.

Will his info allow you to remedy the current build issues and, as package
maintainer, issue a new updates/testing set of csound and csound-python?

What Mike is doing is *way* above my head technically. I am unable to
replicate his process. Besides, my main interest is in having such materials
*publicly* available.

Perhaps, Victor, you have suggestions as well, so as to facilitate a happy
result. Hopefully, Csound5.10 can be up and running in harmony with
python2.6 and Sugar in fairly short order.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Gogins" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:43 PM
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pre-release Windows 
installer for Csound 5.11 at my Web site


Thanks, now I have a little bit more context. How do recent releases,
bug fixes, patches, and so on get from the Csound developers onto
Sugar? Also, how do any patches that the Sugar/Csound maintainers make
get back to us Csound developers?

Regards,
Mike

On 8/13/09, Art Hunkins  wrote:
> I'm using Linux because that's what Sugar uses which is what the OLPC 
> (XO-1)
> uses - and I'm writing Sugar activities for children. Sugar on a Stick
> (i.e., USB drive) is a variant of Sugar that allows kids to access these
> activities on just about any computer (including older, less powerful 
> ones).
>
> As Walter Bender ("CEO" of Sugar Labs) stated in a recent email on the
> sugar-dev list:
>
> (1) Sugar is designed to meet the needs of young children learning--it
> puts an emphasis on guided discovery, collaboration, and reflection.
> It is not just a repackaging of an 1970s-inspired office desktop. (2)
> Sugar is built on free and open software because learning requires
> more than just access to knowledge--it also requires the ability to
> appropriate knowledge and put it to use. Sugar encourages and
> facilitates such appropriation through mechanisms such as "view
> source." (3) Sugar is designed to run on small, old, slow machines,
> e.g., it can breath new life into existing hardware.
>
> Incidentally, "collaboration" (collaborative learning) is a major goal of
> the project, and is why Csound5.10 must work on both the XO-1 and Sugar on 
> a
> Stick. (It doesn't currently - when run from python, which Sugar 
> requires.)
> 5.10 is the only Csound that permits multiple MIDI controllers (as in
> "collaborative performance").
>
> Finally, since most Csounding on OLPC's and Sugar on a Stick will be
> realtime, and done on less powerful (even "weak") systems, I am very 
> worried
> about abandoning the float version of Csound. (XO's include 5.08 float;
> Sugar on a Stick has already moved to 5.10.) Hopefully, Sugar builds will
> keep being *float*. Someone needs to do speed comparisons between 5.10 
> float
> and double on slower machines to see how much difference there is.
>
> To make my .csd's, for example, work on the XO-1, I've had to severely
> restrict sample rate (32K stereo), control rate (100!) and number of 
> voices
> (8 - realtime) - as well as turn off internet - to get glitch-free sound
> (Csound 5.08 float). Thank goodness I got to keep global reverbsc.
>
> Art Hunkins
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gogins" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 2:53 PM
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pre-release Windows installer for
> Csound 5.11 at my Web site
>
>
> Ok, in that case, why are you using Linux? Most musicians I know use OS 
> X...
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On 8/13/09, Art Hunkins  wrote:
>> Sugar = Linux (Fedora11), so no problem there.
>>
>> Art Hunkins
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Gogins" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:02 PM
>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Pre-release Windows installer for Csound
>> 5.11 at my Web site
>>
>>
>> I've probably asked this before, so please excuse the question -- why
>> Sugar?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>> On 8/13/09, Andres Cabrera  wrote:
>>> Oh, OK. I thought you were concerned about the change breaking your
>>> sugar application.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Art Hunkins wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> I am a composer, and to an extent, a performer of Csound works; i.e.,
>>>> I'm
>>>> a
>>>> Csound *user*. I am not a developer/packager; i.e., I do not build
>>>> Csound.
>>>> I
>>>> do give feedback to developers, and try out the new things they 
>>>> develop,
>>>> in
>>>> order to have better tools to compose with.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, this distinction tends to break down in the Linux world -
>>>> which
>>>> is probably the prime reason I'm not a "Linux person". I simply don't
>>>> want
>>>> to get so heavily into the technical stuff; I don't want to construct 
>>>> my
>>>> own
>>>> "system". I want to construct my *compositions*.
>>>>
>>>> Frankly, I've my hands more than full trying to get my compositions
>>>> right,
>>>> create simple performance GUIs, and writing Python scripts for Sugar
>>>> (ugh).
>>>> I count on developers to furnish me the tools - including working 
>>>> Csound
>>>> binaries - to enable me to write my music. Furthermore, I'm not
>>>> particularly
>>>> picky; my needs are fairly mainstream.
>>>>
>>>> Since I write realtime Csound pieces for *others* to play (hopefully 
>>>> not
>>>> just myself), I wouldn't *dream* of asking a potential performer to
>>>> build
>>>> Csound. (I don't ask him to build a piano.) I want to make it as easy
>>>> and
>>>> approachable as possible for the performer. So, *please*, developers,
>>>> make
>>>> as many ready-to-go, bug-free, user-friendly tools/builds as possible.
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andres Cabrera"
>>>> 
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:25 AM
>>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pre-release
>>>> Windows
>>>> installer for Csound 5.11 at my Web site
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Removing portmidi from the windows installers doesn't mean removing it
>>>> from all csound. It's still available for windows if you build it and
>>>> it will still be available on the other platforms.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Andrés
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Art Hunkins wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, yes, yes - please. (I've written an XO Activity based on multiple
>>>>> controllers.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gogins"
>>>>> 
>>>>> To: 
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:25 AM
>>>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pre-release Windows
>>>>> installer for Csound 5.11 at my Web site
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I said I would try to debug the PortMidi problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/12/09, Victor Lazzarini  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Didn't Andres added code to the portmidi module to accept multi-port
>>>>>>> MIDI
>>>>>>> input? That will certainly be missed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Victor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At 16:12 12/08/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Windows, winmme (Windows Multimedia Extensions) is a standard
>>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>> of the operating system and seems to work pretty well. Backward
>>>>>>>> compatibility would be a problem, I believe, only for the
>>>>>>>> command-line
>>>>>>>> options. It should not affect MIDI behavior.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8/12/09, Art Hunkins  wrote:
>>>>>>>> > If not PortMidi, what?
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Backward compatibility?
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Art Hunkins
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> > From: "Michael Gogins" 
>>>>>>>> > To: 
>>>>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:00 AM
>>>>>>>> > Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Pre-release Windows installer for
>>>>>>>> >  >
>>>>>>>> > Csound
>>>>>>>> > 5.11 at my Web site
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> Yes. That's one of the things I will debug. If I can't fix it, 
>>>>>>>> >> no
>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>> >> more
>>>>>>>> >> PortMidi on Windows.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Regards,
>>>>>>>> >> Mike
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> On 8/12/09, Oeyvind Brandtsegg  wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>> It seems like portmidi hangs at (Ctrl+c) exit still.
>>>>>>>> >>> Oeyvind
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> 2009/8/12 Michael Gogins :
>>>>>>>> >>>> I'm updating tutorials, then debugging a few things, then the
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> final.
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> Mike
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> On Aug 12, 2009 5:21 AM, "Tim Mortimer"
>>>>>>>> >>>> 
>>>>>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> So just to clarify
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> id like to do this install when it becomes official (been out
>>>>>>>> >>>> of
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> the
>>>>>>>> >>>> loop
>>>>>>>> >>>> too long to participate in this trail sorry... havent been
>>>>>>>> >>>> using
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> 5.10
>>>>>>>> >>>> because of the ctrl thing basically... hoping to re-enter
>>>>>>>> >>>> with
>>>>>>>> >>>> 5.11 -
>>>>>>>> >>>> see
>>>>>>>> >>>> what QuteCsound is all about + Lua)
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> would now be a good time to upgrade to python 2.6 then?
>>>>>>>> >>>> shouldnt
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> be
>>>>>>>> >>>> any
>>>>>>>> >>>> drama vs 2.5 for most bog standard types of scripts?
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> assumedly no other dependencies necessary.... do i need to
>>>>>>>> >>>> update
>>>>>>>> >>>> quicktime
>>>>>>>> >>>> or something? this is the only info i have seen...
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> http://qutecsound.sourceforge.net/
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> talking Windows obviously
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> many thanks.
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> -----
>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.timmortimer.net
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> --
>>>>>>>> >>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Pre-release-Windows-installer-for-Csound-5.11-at-my-Web-site-tp24818767p24931887.html
>>>>>>>> >>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at
>>>>>>>> >>>> Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> Send bugs reports to this list. To unsubscribe, send email
>>>>>>>> >>>> sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsu...
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>>>> >>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>>>> >>> csound"
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>> >> Michael Gogins
>>>>>>>> >> Irreducible Productions
>>>>>>>> >> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>>>>> >> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>>>> >> "unsubscribe
>>>>>>>> >> csound"
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body >
>>>>>>>> > "unsubscribe
>>>>>>>> > csound"
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>>>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>>>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>>>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>>> Music Technology Laboratory
>>>>>>> Music Department
>>>>>>> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>> csound"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrés
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"=
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
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>>>> "unsubscribe
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Gogins
>> Irreducible Productions
>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
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>> csound"=
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
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>> csound"
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
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> csound"=
>
>
>
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> csound"
>


-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


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