OK, Mike, straight answer:

Yes - as much as you can "count on" a user to do anything. In my "stripped 
down" Csound distros, users are instructed that they *must* run in the same 
directory.

I confess not to have the slightest idea where you are going with this.

My bottom line: I'll be happy if:
1) I don't have to change my back compositions "distros"
2) I don't have to include .csoundrc in my "stripped down" distros
3) Csound picks up everything it needs from my .

Art Hunkins

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Gogins" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 3:00 PM
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: csoptions idea...


> Let me repeat the question: Can you count on your users running the
> same directory, or not? There's no reason for me to continue the
> conversation if I can't get answers to straight questions.
>
> I won't "break" your way of doing things. I just want an answer to my 
> question.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On 8/18/09, Art Hunkins  wrote:
>> My point is: I've never distributed .csoundrc and don't want to start. 
>> And
>> with  there has never been the need. (That was always the
>> *advantage* of  to me. One less files to keep track of; one 
>> less
>> confusion to occur.)
>>
>> As I said, the proposal would break all my previous distributions.
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned, what we've currently got, even if it isn't 
>> ideal,
>> at least we've adapted to; and it isn't broken.
>>
>> If we can improve upon it, OK; but let's not "fix" it and make more work 
>> for
>> people like me.
>>
>> Art Hunkins
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Gogins" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:35 PM
>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: csoptions idea...
>>
>>
>>> We're trying to solve a serious problem here. It's not clear to me
>>> what the best approach is. If you had to use a .csoundrc file, you
>>> could include it in your zip file, could you not?
>>>
>>> .csoundrc works either off the HOME directory or off the current
>>> directory. Do your users always run from the same directory? If so
>>> then .csoundrc would work for them. If not, it won't.
>>>
>>> In any event, several solutions will probably co-exist.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On 8/18/09, Art Hunkins  wrote:
>>>> No. It would break all my compositions.
>>>>
>>>> I ignore .csoundrc and environment variables, and override these in
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> My "stripped down" Csound .zips (used by Windows performers who don't
>>>> have
>>>> Csound already installed) don't include .csoundrc.
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line: instead of deprecating  (Mike, were you
>>>> serious?),
>>>> please let's keep things as they are.
>>>>
>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Michael Gogins" 
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 1:43 PM
>>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: csoptions idea...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> OK, you convinced me. .csoundrc should be the default, CsOptions
>>>>> should be deprecated.
>>>>>
>>>>> I could change my mind again... Art, would .csoundrc work for you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/18/09, Chris Vaisvil  wrote:
>>>>>> Guys,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm going to unsubscribe because this is way too technical for me 
>>>>>> right
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> and I've hung around for a while.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But... before I go I wanted to thank everyone for the hard work and
>>>>>> dedication in making a legendary music generation tool.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I may be back once I learn more. Have a good day - and please keep up
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> great work!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Gogins
>>> Irreducible Productions
>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe 
> csound" 



Send bugs reports to this list.
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"

Where I am going with this is exploring various options to see what is
the best solution for everybody.

You are not going to be affected by anything I or anybody else does,
probably, because, as usual, we have to maintain backward
compatibility for Csound, therefore we are not going to take away or
break anything that already is working.

This discussion is about making Csound easier to configure and use
going forward.

Whether you maintain backward compatibility, or not, the way you use
Csound is an important way. it is an important "use case" that
children or naive users be able to run Csound without doing a lot of
preparation or configuration. Ideally, this would work across
platforms. This is what I am thinking about.

In terms of software engineering, what Csound needs here is an
additional layer of abstraction. We need something so we can just say
"render high-precision soundfile" or "render for MIDI performance" and
it will work without additional configuration, or at most with
one-time configuration, for most users on most platforms. I am trying
to figure out what is the best means of achieving this additional
layer of abstraction: .csoundrc, sub-tags or attributes in CsOptions,
a "launcher" script, environment variables, what have you.

Perhaps what is needed is a new command-line option for Csound
--render=AUDIO, CD, MIDI, etc. and then Csound reads .csoundrc or some
other configuration file to figure out just how to do that.

Regards,
Mike



On 8/18/09, Art Hunkins  wrote:
> OK, Mike, straight answer:
>
> Yes - as much as you can "count on" a user to do anything. In my "stripped
> down" Csound distros, users are instructed that they *must* run in the same
> directory.
>
> I confess not to have the slightest idea where you are going with this.
>
> My bottom line: I'll be happy if:
> 1) I don't have to change my back compositions "distros"
> 2) I don't have to include .csoundrc in my "stripped down" distros
> 3) Csound picks up everything it needs from my .
>
> Art Hunkins
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gogins" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 3:00 PM
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: csoptions idea...
>
>
>> Let me repeat the question: Can you count on your users running the
>> same directory, or not? There's no reason for me to continue the
>> conversation if I can't get answers to straight questions.
>>
>> I won't "break" your way of doing things. I just want an answer to my
>> question.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>> On 8/18/09, Art Hunkins  wrote:
>>> My point is: I've never distributed .csoundrc and don't want to start.
>>> And
>>> with  there has never been the need. (That was always the
>>> *advantage* of  to me. One less files to keep track of; one
>>> less
>>> confusion to occur.)
>>>
>>> As I said, the proposal would break all my previous distributions.
>>>
>>> As far as I'm concerned, what we've currently got, even if it isn't
>>> ideal,
>>> at least we've adapted to; and it isn't broken.
>>>
>>> If we can improve upon it, OK; but let's not "fix" it and make more work
>>> for
>>> people like me.
>>>
>>> Art Hunkins
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Michael Gogins" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:35 PM
>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: csoptions idea...
>>>
>>>
>>>> We're trying to solve a serious problem here. It's not clear to me
>>>> what the best approach is. If you had to use a .csoundrc file, you
>>>> could include it in your zip file, could you not?
>>>>
>>>> .csoundrc works either off the HOME directory or off the current
>>>> directory. Do your users always run from the same directory? If so
>>>> then .csoundrc would work for them. If not, it won't.
>>>>
>>>> In any event, several solutions will probably co-exist.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On 8/18/09, Art Hunkins  wrote:
>>>>> No. It would break all my compositions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ignore .csoundrc and environment variables, and override these in
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> My "stripped down" Csound .zips (used by Windows performers who don't
>>>>> have
>>>>> Csound already installed) don't include .csoundrc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bottom line: instead of deprecating  (Mike, were you
>>>>> serious?),
>>>>> please let's keep things as they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Michael Gogins" 
>>>>> To: 
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 1:43 PM
>>>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: csoptions idea...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, you convinced me. .csoundrc should be the default, CsOptions
>>>>>> should be deprecated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could change my mind again... Art, would .csoundrc work for you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/18/09, Chris Vaisvil  wrote:
>>>>>>> Guys,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm going to unsubscribe because this is way too technical for me
>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>> and I've hung around for a while.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But... before I go I wanted to thank everyone for the hard work and
>>>>>>> dedication in making a legendary music generation tool.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I may be back once I learn more. Have a good day - and please keep up
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> great work!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>> csound"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Gogins
>>>> Irreducible Productions
>>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Gogins
>> Irreducible Productions
>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>