+1

Art Hunkins

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Gogins" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: [Csnd] Re: csoptions idea...


>I would prefer OS specific sub-tags. These would take precedence over
> the regular CsOptions, which would still obtain by default.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On 8/18/09, Rory Walsh  wrote:
>> It would be nice to be able to determine the OS in CsPtions so that
>> user could do something along the lines of
>>
>> 
>> if(OS=Mac) -+rtaudio=CoreAudio -odac
>> elif(OS=Win32) -idac1
>> elif(OS=Linux)  -+rtaudio=alsa -odac0
>> 
>>
>> Or better again, have a OS specific CsOptions section such as
>>
>> 
>>    
>>    -+rtaudio=CoreAudio -odac
>>    
>>    
>>    -idac1
>>    
>>    
>>    -+rtaudio=alsa -odac0
>>    
>> 
>>
>> Then when Csound runs it could query the OS and uses the relevant
>> options. Something like this would mean that the examples in the
>> Csound manual could be run more easily out of the box and it would
>> mean that users could share instrument accross platforms without
>> having to ask other users to hack the options. Just an idea...
>>
>> Rory.
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
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>> csound"
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
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> csound" 



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> +1
>
> Art Hunkins
>

Would tags like

   
-idac1
   


   
-+rtaudio=CoreAudio -odac
   



be acceptable?  Or whatever is correct XML


Then one could still have a generic and over write in cases

==John ff



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Yes, the vital extra bit of abstraction looks good to me.

Regards,
MIke

On 8/18/09, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk  wrote:
>> +1
>>
>> Art Hunkins
>>
>
> Would tags like
> 
>    
> -idac1
>    
> 
> 
>    
> -+rtaudio=CoreAudio -odac
>    
> 
>
>
> be acceptable?  Or whatever is correct XML
>
>
> Then one could still have a generic and over write in cases
>
> ==John ff
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>

that would work for me and be clear and intuitive... we still want to  
support all the smart defaulting you have already for sure.

Rick

On Aug 18, 2009, at 12:35 PM, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:

>> +1
>>
>> Art Hunkins
>>
>
> Would tags like
> 
>   
> -idac1
>   
> 
> 
>   
> -+rtaudio=CoreAudio -odac
>   
> 
>
>
> be acceptable?  Or whatever is correct XML
>
>
> Then one could still have a generic and over write in cases
>
> ==John ff
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"



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So can someone reply to my thread and tell me why it is a good idea to
add machine-dependent settings to a project?  It seems that it would
make project less portable, not more.

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dr. Richard
Boulanger wrote:
> that would work for me and be clear and intuitive... we still want to
> support all the smart defaulting you have already for sure.
>
> Rick
>
> On Aug 18, 2009, at 12:35 PM, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Art Hunkins
>>>
>>
>> Would tags like
>> 
>>  
>> -idac1
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> -+rtaudio=CoreAudio -odac
>>  
>> 
>>
>>
>> be acceptable?  Or whatever is correct XML
>>
>>
>> Then one could still have a generic and over write in cases
>>
>> ==John ff
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>


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If you want a portable project, you don't use these sub-tags, you work
as before. We preserve backward compatibility.

If you want a project that is portable across several specific
operating systems with no need to change options, these sub-tags are a
good idea, I think.

I think in the long run, this increases rather than decreases
portability. We could do something similar in the .csoundrc file.

Regards,
Mike



On 8/18/09, Steven Yi  wrote:
> So can someone reply to my thread and tell me why it is a good idea to
> add machine-dependent settings to a project?  It seems that it would
> make project less portable, not more.
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dr. Richard
> Boulanger wrote:
>> that would work for me and be clear and intuitive... we still want to
>> support all the smart defaulting you have already for sure.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Aug 18, 2009, at 12:35 PM, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>
>>>
>>> Would tags like
>>> 
>>>  
>>> -idac1
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> -+rtaudio=CoreAudio -odac
>>>  
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> be acceptable?  Or whatever is correct XML
>>>
>>>
>>> Then one could still have a generic and over write in cases
>>>
>>> ==John ff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
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>> csound"
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
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-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


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I think even between machines this does not help but hurt.  I have
multiple windows machines and have had multiple linux machines. If I
setup settings for CsOptions for one Linux Machine, it very well may
not work on another Linux machine the way I would like (i.e. dac2 vs
dac0).  On windows, if I have a machine with ASIO setup and use device
2 by default, if I move it to a netbook that I might just be using MME
on, it's broken. Using CsOptions basically says "Render with settings
appropriate to my computer", and adding multiple OS tags I think will
only make things "Render on my computers" versus being a real global
solution, which a virtual device system would really solve.

If your configuration changes, say, by deciding to use a USB headset
today versus soundcard, you'll have to update your CSDs to match. All
of your CSD's.  That makes no sense to me as a practice which is why I
discourage its use.

Granted, the method I use with -+ignore_csopts and .csoundrc basically
makes whatever changes to CsOptions moot for myself, but I honestly
think this is only going to make things worse as a community. I'd
rather see effort go into a platform-independent .csoundrc editor that
anyone can use to setup their system settings once and have that be
the normal practice rather than introduce multiple machine dependent
settings.

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Michael Gogins wrote:
> If you want a portable project, you don't use these sub-tags, you work
> as before. We preserve backward compatibility.
>
> If you want a project that is portable across several specific
> operating systems with no need to change options, these sub-tags are a
> good idea, I think.
>
> I think in the long run, this increases rather than decreases
> portability. We could do something similar in the .csoundrc file.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
> On 8/18/09, Steven Yi  wrote:
>> So can someone reply to my thread and tell me why it is a good idea to
>> add machine-dependent settings to a project?  It seems that it would
>> make project less portable, not more.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dr. Richard
>> Boulanger wrote:
>>> that would work for me and be clear and intuitive... we still want to
>>> support all the smart defaulting you have already for sure.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> On Aug 18, 2009, at 12:35 PM, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>>>
>>>>> +1
>>>>>
>>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Would tags like
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> -idac1
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> -+rtaudio=CoreAudio -odac
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> be acceptable?  Or whatever is correct XML
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then one could still have a generic and over write in cases
>>>>
>>>> ==John ff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>
>
> --
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"


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OK, you convinced me. .csoundrc should be the default, CsOptions
should be deprecated.

I could change my mind again... Art, would .csoundrc work for you?

Regards,
Mike

On 8/18/09, Chris Vaisvil  wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I'm going to unsubscribe because this is way too technical for me right now
> and I've hung around for a while.
>
> But... before I go I wanted to thank everyone for the hard work and
> dedication in making a legendary music generation tool.
>
> I may be back once I learn more. Have a good day - and please keep up the
> great work!
>
> Chris
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"

I didn't get the sense that they were machine-dependent.
I got the sense that they were machine-intelligent or machine-aware.

if it was a Mac - it would use these options
if it was Linux (OLPC) - it would use these options

by default it would use .csoundrc options or XXX options

and, as in Qutecsound, there would always be a checkbox that told it  
to override the CsOptions

-dB

On Aug 18, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Steven Yi wrote:

> So can someone reply to my thread and tell me why it is a good idea to
> add machine-dependent settings to a project?  It seems that it would
> make project less portable, not more.
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dr. Richard
> Boulanger wrote:
>> that would work for me and be clear and intuitive... we still want to
>> support all the smart defaulting you have already for sure.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Aug 18, 2009, at 12:35 PM, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>
>>>
>>> Would tags like
>>> 
>>>  
>>> -idac1
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> -+rtaudio=CoreAudio -odac
>>>  
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> be acceptable?  Or whatever is correct XML
>>>
>>>
>>> Then one could still have a generic and over write in cases
>>>
>>> ==John ff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>> "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
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I'll defer to Richard Dobson's email that explains things a bit well.
Basing settings on what OS you use is one thing, but the settings
people are putting are by their nature dependent on the individual
machine. Putting in settings like what driver, what soundcard, and
what buffers to use will depend on each machine, even if they are
using the same OS.

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Dr. Richard
Boulanger wrote:
> I didn't get the sense that they were machine-dependent.
> I got the sense that they were machine-intelligent or machine-aware.
>
> if it was a Mac - it would use these options
> if it was Linux (OLPC) - it would use these options
>
> by default it would use .csoundrc options or XXX options
>
> and, as in Qutecsound, there would always be a checkbox that told it to
> override the CsOptions
>
> -dB
>
> On Aug 18, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Steven Yi wrote:
>
>> So can someone reply to my thread and tell me why it is a good idea to
>> add machine-dependent settings to a project?  It seems that it would
>> make project less portable, not more.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dr. Richard
>> Boulanger wrote:
>>>
>>> that would work for me and be clear and intuitive... we still want to
>>> support all the smart defaulting you have already for sure.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> On Aug 18, 2009, at 12:35 PM, jpff@cs.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>>>
>>>>> +1
>>>>>
>>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Would tags like
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> -idac1
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> -+rtaudio=CoreAudio -odac
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> be acceptable?  Or whatever is correct XML
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then one could still have a generic and over write in cases
>>>>
>>>> ==John ff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
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>
>
>
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>


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