Hello,

I'm planing on learning some serious programming this summer. Mainly  
so that I can start writing/modifying opcodes and max externals.

So the question is: would it be better to start with C and then go  
into C++ or jump straight into C++? And can anyone recommend a good  
book?

Thanks in advance

Peiman
  


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Go straight to C++. No point in facing two sets of challenges and
idiosyncrasies, especially if you have no plans of using C.

A good book is Lippman's "C++ Primer" (not to be confused with another
book called "C++ Primer Plus").

//p
http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Peiman Khosravi
 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm planing on learning some serious programming this summer. Mainly so that
> I can start writing/modifying opcodes and max externals.
>
> So the question is: would it be better to start with C and then go into C++
> or jump straight into C++? And can anyone recommend a good book?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Peiman
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>


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I do not recommend starting with C if you are going to end up using
C++.. I feel you might risk internalizing a purely procedural style of
programming and then be confused by classes. If you already know
object-oriented programming, of course, this would not be a problem.

I'm a big fan of C++.  I use C++ for all my music programming except
when I am composing, and then I use Python, though I may end up doing
even the composing in C++. I write opcodes in C++ using the
OpcodeBase.hpp header and the standard C++ collections.

If you pick the most demanding fields for programming, such as complex
embedded systems like car engine controls, contemporary avionics
software, particle physics data analysis,. game programming, and
mass-market shrink-wrapped application software, it's almost always
written in C++ for some reason. Probably because it is the best
general-purpose programming language.

That said, if you are going to focus on writing opcodes for Csound,
and you don't anticipate lots of pages of code for a single opcode,
then C should be just fine. Also, if you can't afford the C++ learning
curve, just learn C for now (though, as I imply above, it is going to
take you less time to learn both C and C++ by learning C++ first than
it will to learn both C and C++ by learning C++ first).

C is much easier to learn than C++, which is quite a bit more
complicated. The goal of the inventor of C++ and of the current
maintainers of C++ is to create the best general-purpose programming
language by cramming all the good ideas from programming language
research into C++ -- if they don't make it run slower. I know from
experience including performance tests that C++ code runs just as fast
as C code if you do it right.

If you are planning to write complex, high-performance software, just
go ahead and start with C++. Get Bjarne Stroustrup's textbook, and
learn the parts that make sense for a Csound programmer: classes,
templates, collections. Forget about operator overloading, exceptions,
template metaprogramming, boost, current extensions to the language,
and so on.

Hope this helps,
Mike


On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:48 PM,   wrote:
> Learn C and do it well, then move to C++. That'd be my advice.
>
> Victor
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peiman Khosravi 
> Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:43 pm
> Subject: [Csnd] Learning C or C++
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm planing on learning some serious programming this summer.
>> Mainly
>> so that I can start writing/modifying opcodes and max externals.
>>
>> So the question is: would it be better to start with C and then
>> go
>> into C++ or jump straight into C++? And can anyone recommend a
>> good
>> book?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Peiman
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>
> Dr Victor Lazzarini, Senior Lecturer, Dept. of Music,
> National University of Ireland, Maynooth
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


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Caveat: I don't know about Max externals and what they're requirements are, and I've never written any opcodes or contributed to the CSound codebase.

I understand that CSound has both C++ and C API's (as well as a slew of other supported bindings), so the question goes a little deeper then what you plan to do immediately with CSound API's. C is a procedural language, and as such is fairly antiquated as far as modern programming methodologies are concerned. If you learn C first, you might develop habits that contravene most object-oriented methodologies and therefore loose most of the benefits of C++  (please, no arguments about whether or not C++ is object oriented; it's close enough for this discussion). Going the other way around, if you learn C++ first you'll learn almost (99.99%) everything there is to know in C and be thankful you're not constrained to write everything as a function or a struct (and in fact know better not to).

Now, there's still a large number of performance-dependent apps (like CSound) that are written in C, but like I said, learn C++ first and you'll pretty much learn C as well. C++ is really just C with OO capabilities (generally speaking, there's other differences as well).

Michael Bechard




----- Original Message ----
From: Peiman Khosravi 
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 1:43:26 PM
Subject: [Csnd] Learning C or C++

Hello,

I'm planing on learning some serious programming this summer. Mainly so that I can start writing/modifying opcodes and max externals.

So the question is: would it be better to start with C and then go into C++ or jump straight into C++? And can anyone recommend a good book?

Thanks in advance

Peiman


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The Stroustrup textbook's home page is here:

http://www2.research.att.com/~bs/programming.html

Regards,
Mike

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Michael Bechard  wrote:
> Caveat: I don't know about Max externals and what they're requirements are, and I've never written any opcodes or contributed to the CSound codebase.
>
> I understand that CSound has both C++ and C API's (as well as a slew of other supported bindings), so the question goes a little deeper then what you plan to do immediately with CSound API's. C is a procedural language, and as such is fairly antiquated as far as modern programming methodologies are concerned. If you learn C first, you might develop habits that contravene most object-oriented methodologies and therefore loose most of the benefits of C++  (please, no arguments about whether or not C++ is object oriented; it's close enough for this discussion). Going the other way around, if you learn C++ first you'll learn almost (99.99%) everything there is to know in C and be thankful you're not constrained to write everything as a function or a struct (and in fact know better not to).
>
> Now, there's still a large number of performance-dependent apps (like CSound) that are written in C, but like I said, learn C++ first and you'll pretty much learn C as well. C++ is really just C with OO capabilities (generally speaking, there's other differences as well).
>
> Michael Bechard
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Peiman Khosravi 
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 1:43:26 PM
> Subject: [Csnd] Learning C or C++
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm planing on learning some serious programming this summer. Mainly so that I can start writing/modifying opcodes and max externals.
>
> So the question is: would it be better to start with C and then go into C++ or jump straight into C++? And can anyone recommend a good book?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Peiman
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


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I'm with Victor in this one. I would put it this way - what you do know 
will not generally hurt you, but what you do not might. Learn (or 
discover) the principles of Object Orientation using C! Csound is as 
useful an example as any.

I syspect it is a very rare person indeed who never studies existing 
code when learning a language, but who does only what some book tells 
him to do. There is a ~huge~ amount of important C code out there; not 
all of it good in the modern sense, but by no means all of it bad 
either. And a lot of it is immensely ~useful~.  No "standard" texts on 
either C or C++ discuss audio or music applications (one reason among 
many why the Audio Programming Book was conceived).  Also, people are 
generally perfectly capable of "thinking" in multiple idioms - 
procedural here, object-oriented there. There is nothing at all wrong 
with "procedural" - it may often be exactly what you need, especially 
for the host of small utility programs developers always end up writing 
as a matter of daily routine.

That said, a good introductory C++ book that unashamedly starts you 
straight in on C++ from the get-go is "Accelerated C++" by Koenig and 
Moo (Addison + Wesley). Small enough not to be daunting, and these days 
  pretty cheap (C++ books tend to be rather expensive). But it will not 
answer the question "How do I write an audio process in C++?". For that 
you will need our book!

For a blast of old-fashioned (but useful) C, get "Elements of Computer 
Music" by F.R. Moore.


Richard Dobson




On 10/06/2010 20:17, Michael Gogins wrote:
> I do not recommend starting with C if you are going to end up using
> C++.. I feel you might risk internalizing a purely procedural style of
> programming and then be confused by classes. If you already know
> object-oriented programming, of course, this would not be a problem.
>
...



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Michael Bechard wrote:
> Going the other way around, if you learn C++ first you'll learn almost (99.99%) everything there is to know in C and be thankful you're not constrained to write everything as a function or a struct (and in fact know better not to).

I'd say 90% at most, because C has things that have better replacements 
in C++, so you don't learn them in C++, like alloc, free and fopen. 
That's why I would have a very hard time programming in C even though I 
program in C++ for a living.

Mark



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Wow,

Thank you very much for the comments.

First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned  
sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)

As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to programming  
I think it would make sense for me to start learning C. This will  
allow me to at least start writing some simple code and eventually  
study some of the csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be heading!!).

When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto C++  
for larger projects I shall start learning that too.

Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.  
Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on csound I  
have always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and although  
I understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the same time I  
can see its benefits and flexibility. The whole object orientated  
approach scares me immensely! On the other hand I've played around  
with Python a bit and find it very intuitive, so then again it depends  
on the specific language I guess.

Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.

Best,

Peiman



On 10 Jun 2010, at 21:13, Mark Van Peteghem wrote:

> Michael Bechard wrote:
>> Going the other way around, if you learn C++ first you'll learn  
>> almost (99.99%) everything there is to know in C and be thankful  
>> you're not constrained to write everything as a function or a  
>> struct (and in fact know better not to).
>
> I'd say 90% at most, because C has things that have better  
> replacements in C++, so you don't learn them in C++, like alloc,  
> free and fopen. That's why I would have a very hard time programming  
> in C even though I program in C++ for a living.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>



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And there is a fantastic chapter on the PVS opcodes by Victor that  
will get you there for sure!

Sent from my Radio Baton ;-)

On Jun 10, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Peiman Khosravi  
 wrote:

> Wow,
>
> Thank you very much for the comments.
>
> First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned  
> sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)
>
> As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to  
> programming I think it would make sense for me to start learning C.  
> This will allow me to at least start writing some simple code and  
> eventually study some of the csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be  
> heading!!).
>
> When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto C+ 
> + for larger projects I shall start learning that too.
>
> Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.  
> Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on csound  
> I have always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and  
> although I understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the  
> same time I can see its benefits and flexibility. The whole object  
> orientated approach scares me immensely! On the other hand I've  
> played around with Python a bit and find it very intuitive, so then  
> again it depends on the specific language I guess.
>
> Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.
>
> Best,
>
> Peiman
>
>
>
> On 10 Jun 2010, at 21:13, Mark Van Peteghem wrote:
>
>> Michael Bechard wrote:
>>> Going the other way around, if you learn C++ first you'll learn  
>>> almost (99.99%) everything there is to know in C and be thankful  
>>> you're not constrained to write everything as a function or a  
>>> struct (and in fact know better not to).
>>
>> I'd say 90% at most, because C has things that have better  
>> replacements in C++, so you don't learn them in C++, like alloc,  
>> free and fopen. That's why I would have a very hard time  
>> programming in C even though I program in C++ for a living.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>


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Thank for starting this thread Peiman, I have been reading all of the responses with great interest! Like you, I would like to gain sufficient proficiency with C and/or C++ to write and study Csound opcodes and perhaps use the API as well. 
Though I have made minor progress in creating some basic programs, working with the Csound stuff has proved difficult for me so far. Speaking as a beginner, it would be very helpful if there were simple, clear project examples available for freeware development platforms like CodeBlocks or Netbeans instead of Visual C++, which I don't like and cannot afford.
BW

----------------------------------------
> From: peimankhosravi@gmail.com
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:59:57 +0100
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>
> Wow,
>
> Thank you very much for the comments.
>
> First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned
> sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)
>
> As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to programming
> I think it would make sense for me to start learning C. This will
> allow me to at least start writing some simple code and eventually
> study some of the csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be heading!!).
>
> When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto C++
> for larger projects I shall start learning that too.
>
> Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.
> Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on csound I
> have always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and although
> I understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the same time I
> can see its benefits and flexibility. The whole object orientated
> approach scares me immensely! On the other hand I've played around
> with Python a bit and find it very intuitive, so then again it depends
> on the specific language I guess.
>
> Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.
>
> Best,
>
> Peiman

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Learn more ways to connect with your buddies now
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If you don't need all the database stuff, you can get a free version of 
VC++ here:
http://www.microsoft.com/express/windows/

Martin

Brian Wong wrote:
> Thank for starting this thread Peiman, I have been reading all of the responses with great interest! Like you, I would like to gain sufficient proficiency with C and/or C++ to write and study Csound opcodes and perhaps use the API as well. 
> Though I have made minor progress in creating some basic programs, working with the Csound stuff has proved difficult for me so far. Speaking as a beginner, it would be very helpful if there were simple, clear project examples available for freeware development platforms like CodeBlocks or Netbeans instead of Visual C++, which I don't like and cannot afford.
> BW
> 
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: peimankhosravi@gmail.com
>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:59:57 +0100
>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>>
>> Wow,
>>
>> Thank you very much for the comments.
>>
>> First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned
>> sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)
>>
>> As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to programming
>> I think it would make sense for me to start learning C. This will
>> allow me to at least start writing some simple code and eventually
>> study some of the csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be heading!!).
>>
>> When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto C++
>> for larger projects I shall start learning that too.
>>
>> Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.
>> Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on csound I
>> have always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and although
>> I understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the same time I
>> can see its benefits and flexibility. The whole object orientated
>> approach scares me immensely! On the other hand I've played around
>> with Python a bit and find it very intuitive, so then again it depends
>> on the specific language I guess.
>>
>> Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Peiman
> 
>  		 	   		  
> _________________________________________________________________
> Learn more ways to connect with your buddies now
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734388
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 
> 



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Yes, I tried that and it messed up my computer for some reason and took me a lot of work to remove.
BW

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:48:40 -0400
> From: martin.peach@sympatico.ca
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>
> If you don't need all the database stuff, you can get a free version of
> VC++ here:
> http://www.microsoft.com/express/windows/
>
> Martin
>
> Brian Wong wrote:
>> Thank for starting this thread Peiman, I have been reading all of the responses with great interest! Like you, I would like to gain sufficient proficiency with C and/or C++ to write and study Csound opcodes and perhaps use the API as well.
>> Though I have made minor progress in creating some basic programs, working with the Csound stuff has proved difficult for me so far. Speaking as a beginner, it would be very helpful if there were simple, clear project examples available for freeware development platforms like CodeBlocks or Netbeans instead of Visual C++, which I don't like and cannot afford.
>> BW
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> From: peimankhosravi@gmail.com
>>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:59:57 +0100
>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>>>
>>> Wow,
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for the comments.
>>>
>>> First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned
>>> sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)
>>>
>>> As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to programming
>>> I think it would make sense for me to start learning C. This will
>>> allow me to at least start writing some simple code and eventually
>>> study some of the csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be heading!!).
>>>
>>> When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto C++
>>> for larger projects I shall start learning that too.
>>>
>>> Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.
>>> Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on csound I
>>> have always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and although
>>> I understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the same time I
>>> can see its benefits and flexibility. The whole object orientated
>>> approach scares me immensely! On the other hand I've played around
>>> with Python a bit and find it very intuitive, so then again it depends
>>> on the specific language I guess.
>>>
>>> Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Peiman
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Learn more ways to connect with your buddies now
>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734388
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Look 'em in the eye: FREE Messenger video chat
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We have a chapter on using the Csound API by Rory Walsh with some  
great code.

Sent from my Radio Baton ;-)

On Jun 10, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Brian Wong  wrote:

>
> Thank for starting this thread Peiman, I have been reading all of  
> the responses with great interest! Like you, I would like to gain  
> sufficient proficiency with C and/or C++ to write and study Csound  
> opcodes and perhaps use the API as well.
> Though I have made minor progress in creating some basic programs,  
> working with the Csound stuff has proved difficult for me so far.  
> Speaking as a beginner, it would be very helpful if there were  
> simple, clear project examples available for freeware development  
> platforms like CodeBlocks or Netbeans instead of Visual C++, which I  
> don't like and cannot afford.
> BW
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: peimankhosravi@gmail.com
>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:59:57 +0100
>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>>
>> Wow,
>>
>> Thank you very much for the comments.
>>
>> First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned
>> sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)
>>
>> As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to programming
>> I think it would make sense for me to start learning C. This will
>> allow me to at least start writing some simple code and eventually
>> study some of the csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be heading!!).
>>
>> When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto C 
>> ++
>> for larger projects I shall start learning that too.
>>
>> Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.
>> Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on csound I
>> have always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and although
>> I understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the same  
>> time I
>> can see its benefits and flexibility. The whole object orientated
>> approach scares me immensely! On the other hand I've played around
>> with Python a bit and find it very intuitive, so then again it  
>> depends
>> on the specific language I guess.
>>
>> Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Peiman
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Learn more ways to connect with your buddies now
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734388
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>


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I read over the preview materials you linked and the upcoming book looks fabulous!
BW

----------------------------------------
> From: rboulanger56@gmail.com
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:22:28 -0400
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>
> We have a chapter on using the Csound API by Rory Walsh with some
> great code.
>
> Sent from my Radio Baton ;-)
>
> On Jun 10, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Brian Wong  wrote:
>
>>
>> Thank for starting this thread Peiman, I have been reading all of
>> the responses with great interest! Like you, I would like to gain
>> sufficient proficiency with C and/or C++ to write and study Csound
>> opcodes and perhaps use the API as well.
>> Though I have made minor progress in creating some basic programs,
>> working with the Csound stuff has proved difficult for me so far.
>> Speaking as a beginner, it would be very helpful if there were
>> simple, clear project examples available for freeware development
>> platforms like CodeBlocks or Netbeans instead of Visual C++, which I
>> don't like and cannot afford.
>> BW
>>

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
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Take a look at the Qt SDK sometime.  It includes the QtCreator IDE and
has many simple examples that work out of the box.
http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/

If you like what you see, there is also an opensource book that
introduces C++ for beginners using the Qt SDK, and it includes a C++
reference section ...all for free!
http://cartan.cas.suffolk.edu/oopdocbook/opensource/

Cheers,
~ andy.f



On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Brian Wong  wrote:
>
> Though I have made minor progress in creating some basic programs, working with the Csound stuff has proved difficult for me so far. Speaking as a beginner, it would be very helpful if there were simple, clear project examples available for freeware development platforms like CodeBlocks or Netbeans instead of Visual C++, which I don't like and cannot afford.
> BW
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: peimankhosravi@gmail.com
>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:59:57 +0100
>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>>
>> Wow,
>>
>> Thank you very much for the comments.
>>
>> First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned
>> sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)
>>
>> As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to programming
>> I think it would make sense for me to start learning C. This will
>> allow me to at least start writing some simple code and eventually
>> study some of the csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be heading!!).
>>
>> When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto C++
>> for larger projects I shall start learning that too.
>>
>> Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.
>> Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on csound I
>> have always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and although
>> I understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the same time I
>> can see its benefits and flexibility. The whole object orientated
>> approach scares me immensely! On the other hand I've played around
>> with Python a bit and find it very intuitive, so then again it depends
>> on the specific language I guess.
>>
>> Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Peiman
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Learn more ways to connect with your buddies now
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734388
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


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Thanks Andy, that sounds really good! I am definitely going to try it out.
Brian

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:16:28 -0400
> From: andy.fillebrown@gmail.com
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>
> Take a look at the Qt SDK sometime. It includes the QtCreator IDE and
> has many simple examples that work out of the box.
> http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/
>
> If you like what you see, there is also an opensource book that
> introduces C++ for beginners using the Qt SDK, and it includes a C++
> reference section ...all for free!
> http://cartan.cas.suffolk.edu/oopdocbook/opensource/
>
> Cheers,
> ~ andy.f
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Brian Wong  wrote:
>>
>> Though I have made minor progress in creating some basic programs, working with the Csound stuff has proved difficult for me so far. Speaking as a beginner, it would be very helpful if there were simple, clear project examples available for freeware development platforms like CodeBlocks or Netbeans instead of Visual C++, which I don't like and cannot afford.
>> BW
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> From: peimankhosravi@gmail.com
>>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:59:57 +0100
>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>>>
>>> Wow,
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for the comments.
>>>
>>> First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned
>>> sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)
>>>
>>> As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to programming
>>> I think it would make sense for me to start learning C. This will
>>> allow me to at least start writing some simple code and eventually
>>> study some of the csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be heading!!).
>>>
>>> When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto C++
>>> for larger projects I shall start learning that too.
>>>
>>> Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.
>>> Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on csound I
>>> have always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and although
>>> I understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the same time I
>>> can see its benefits and flexibility. The whole object orientated
>>> approach scares me immensely! On the other hand I've played around
>>> with Python a bit and find it very intuitive, so then again it depends
>>> on the specific language I guess.
>>>
>>> Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Peiman
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Learn more ways to connect with your buddies now
>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734388
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Look 'em in the eye: FREE Messenger video chat
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Thanks.... there is a lot covered in it.  Something, lots of things,  
hopefully, for everyone, and at every level.

-dB

On Jun 10, 2010, at 7:53 PM, Brian Wong wrote:

>
> I read over the preview materials you linked and the upcoming book  
> looks fabulous!
> BW
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: rboulanger56@gmail.com
>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:22:28 -0400
>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>>
>> We have a chapter on using the Csound API by Rory Walsh with some
>> great code.
>>
>> Sent from my Radio Baton ;-)
>>
>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Brian Wong  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Thank for starting this thread Peiman, I have been reading all of
>>> the responses with great interest! Like you, I would like to gain
>>> sufficient proficiency with C and/or C++ to write and study Csound
>>> opcodes and perhaps use the API as well.
>>> Though I have made minor progress in creating some basic programs,
>>> working with the Csound stuff has proved difficult for me so far.
>>> Speaking as a beginner, it would be very helpful if there were
>>> simple, clear project examples available for freeware development
>>> platforms like CodeBlocks or Netbeans instead of Visual C++, which I
>>> don't like and cannot afford.
>>> BW
>>>
>
> 		 	   		
> _________________________________________________________________
> Game on: Challenge friends to great games on Messenger
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734387
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>



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as you may have noticed from the DVD table of contents,
we have a great chapter and code on using QT to build cross-platform
GUI interfaces for The Audio Programming Book code by non other
than Andreas Cabrera.  It's great.... and more on this by Tim Lukens  
as well.

-dB


On Jun 10, 2010, at 8:16 PM, andy fillebrown wrote:

> Take a look at the Qt SDK sometime.  It includes the QtCreator IDE and
> has many simple examples that work out of the box.
> http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/
>
> If you like what you see, there is also an opensource book that
> introduces C++ for beginners using the Qt SDK, and it includes a C++
> reference section ...all for free!
> http://cartan.cas.suffolk.edu/oopdocbook/opensource/
>
> Cheers,
> ~ andy.f
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Brian Wong  
>  wrote:
>>
>> Though I have made minor progress in creating some basic programs,  
>> working with the Csound stuff has proved difficult for me so far.  
>> Speaking as a beginner, it would be very helpful if there were  
>> simple, clear project examples available for freeware development  
>> platforms like CodeBlocks or Netbeans instead of Visual C++, which  
>> I don't like and cannot afford.
>> BW
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> From: peimankhosravi@gmail.com
>>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:59:57 +0100
>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>>>
>>> Wow,
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for the comments.
>>>
>>> First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned
>>> sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)
>>>
>>> As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to  
>>> programming
>>> I think it would make sense for me to start learning C. This will
>>> allow me to at least start writing some simple code and eventually
>>> study some of the csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be  
>>> heading!!).
>>>
>>> When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto  
>>> C++
>>> for larger projects I shall start learning that too.
>>>
>>> Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.
>>> Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on  
>>> csound I
>>> have always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and  
>>> although
>>> I understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the same  
>>> time I
>>> can see its benefits and flexibility. The whole object orientated
>>> approach scares me immensely! On the other hand I've played around
>>> with Python a bit and find it very intuitive, so then again it  
>>> depends
>>> on the specific language I guess.
>>>
>>> Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Peiman
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Learn more ways to connect with your buddies now
>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734388
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/? 
>> group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>



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I have started working through the online book and looking and the numerous examples, and do indeed like what I see. I am much indebted to you for this tip, Qt rocks!
BW

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:16:28 -0400
> From: andy.fillebrown@gmail.com
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>
> Take a look at the Qt SDK sometime. It includes the QtCreator IDE and
> has many simple examples that work out of the box.
> http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/
>
> If you like what you see, there is also an opensource book that
> introduces C++ for beginners using the Qt SDK, and it includes a C++
> reference section ...all for free!
> http://cartan.cas.suffolk.edu/oopdocbook/opensource/
>
> Cheers,
> ~ andy.f
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Brian Wong  wrote:
>>
>> Though I have made minor progress in creating some basic programs, working with the Csound stuff has proved difficult for me so far. Speaking as a beginner, it would be very helpful if there were simple, clear project examples available for freeware development platforms like CodeBlocks or Netbeans instead of Visual C++, which I don't like and cannot afford.
>> BW
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> From: peimankhosravi@gmail.com
>>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:59:57 +0100
>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Learning C or C++
>>>
>>> Wow,
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for the comments.
>>>
>>> First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned
>>> sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)
>>>
>>> As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to programming
>>> I think it would make sense for me to start learning C. This will
>>> allow me to at least start writing some simple code and eventually
>>> study some of the csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be heading!!).
>>>
>>> When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto C++
>>> for larger projects I shall start learning that too.
>>>
>>> Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.
>>> Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on csound I
>>> have always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and although
>>> I understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the same time I
>>> can see its benefits and flexibility. The whole object orientated
>>> approach scares me immensely! On the other hand I've played around
>>> with Python a bit and find it very intuitive, so then again it depends
>>> on the specific language I guess.
>>>
>>> Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Peiman
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Learn more ways to connect with your buddies now
>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734388
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Game on: Challenge friends to great games on Messenger
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734387

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All the Csound opcodes that I have written have been written in C++:

Chua's oscillator
Doppler
Linear algebra opcodes (dozens)
STK opcodes (dozens)
Mixer opcodes
Jacko opcodes
Signal flow graph opcodes
ampmidid opcode, rescales MIDI amplitudes to specific dynamic range
(needs to get into manual)

I also have helped with vst4cs which is written in C++.

Gabriel Maldonado's FLTK opcodes are written in C++.

The Loris opcodes by Kelly Fitz are written in C++.

The Csound and CppSound classes, basis for all the API wrappers for
Python etc, are written by Istvan Varga and myself in C++.

The Fluidsynth opcodes were originally written by me in C++, then
Steven Yi fixed some logical bugs that I had created and rewrote them
in C, then I rewrote Steven Yi's code in C++ again.

So, a good chunk of Csound, if you count the opcodes, actually is
written in C++, including a considerable amount of signal processing.

The LADSPA opcodes are in C++.

The whole CsoundAC package by me for algorithmic composition is written in C++.

Regards,
Mike

On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Chuckk Hubbard
 wrote:
> Unless something's changed, Csound itself is written entirely in C.
> I've heard talk of C being great for signal processing; I haven't delved
> very deeply into either, but from what I see it seems like the unique parts
> of C++ help to organize larger projects. I also think it's harder to learn;
> it has some of everything.
>
> -Chuckk
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 12:59 AM, Peiman Khosravi 
> wrote:
>>
>> Wow,
>>
>> Thank you very much for the comments.
>>
>> First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned
>> sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)
>>
>> As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to programming I
>> think it would make sense for me to start learning C. This will allow me to
>> at least start writing some simple code and eventually study some of the
>> csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be heading!!).
>>
>> When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto C++ for
>> larger projects I shall start learning that too.
>>
>> Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.
>> Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on csound I have
>> always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and although I
>> understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the same time I can see
>> its benefits and flexibility. The whole object orientated approach scares me
>> immensely! On the other hand I've played around with Python a bit and find
>> it very intuitive, so then again it depends on the specific language I
>> guess.
>>
>> Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Peiman
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10 Jun 2010, at 21:13, Mark Van Peteghem wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Bechard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Going the other way around, if you learn C++ first you'll learn almost
>>>> (99.99%) everything there is to know in C and be thankful you're not
>>>> constrained to write everything as a function or a struct (and in fact know
>>>> better not to).
>>>
>>> I'd say 90% at most, because C has things that have better replacements
>>> in C++, so you don't learn them in C++, like alloc, free and fopen. That's
>>> why I would have a very hard time programming in C even though I program in
>>> C++ for a living.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


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Yes, C++ really is harder than C. But the object orientation is
actually used in much the same way as in Python.

Regards,
Mike

On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Bernardo Barros
 wrote:
>
> I don't know C/C++. Is C++ really harder than C? The big difference is the
> object-oriented aproach? Is it a different Object-Oriented Programming style
> than Python or SuperCollider???
>
> On 12 June 2010 20:47, Bernardo Barros  wrote:
>>
>> Is there free material about signal processing with C on the internet?
>> Specificaly to work with free software (CSound's opcodes, SuperCollider'
>> UGens and PD's 'objects')? I would really like this kind of material!
>>
>> On 12 June 2010 20:13, Chuckk Hubbard  wrote:
>>>
>>> Unless something's changed, Csound itself is written entirely in C.
>>> I've heard talk of C being great for signal processing; I haven't delved
>>> very deeply into either, but from what I see it seems like the unique parts
>>> of C++ help to organize larger projects. I also think it's harder to learn;
>>> it has some of everything.
>>>
>>> -Chuckk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 12:59 AM, Peiman Khosravi
>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Wow,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you very much for the comments.
>>>>
>>>> First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned
>>>> sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)
>>>>
>>>> As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to programming I
>>>> think it would make sense for me to start learning C. This will allow me to
>>>> at least start writing some simple code and eventually study some of the
>>>> csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be heading!!).
>>>>
>>>> When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto C++
>>>> for larger projects I shall start learning that too.
>>>>
>>>> Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.
>>>> Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on csound I have
>>>> always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and although I
>>>> understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the same time I can see
>>>> its benefits and flexibility. The whole object orientated approach scares me
>>>> immensely! On the other hand I've played around with Python a bit and find
>>>> it very intuitive, so then again it depends on the specific language I
>>>> guess.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Peiman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10 Jun 2010, at 21:13, Mark Van Peteghem wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Michael Bechard wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Going the other way around, if you learn C++ first you'll learn almost
>>>>>> (99.99%) everything there is to know in C and be thankful you're not
>>>>>> constrained to write everything as a function or a struct (and in fact know
>>>>>> better not to).
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd say 90% at most, because C has things that have better replacements
>>>>> in C++, so you don't learn them in C++, like alloc, free and fopen. That's
>>>>> why I would have a very hard time programming in C even though I program in
>>>>> C++ for a living.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>>>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
>>
>
>



-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


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I'll definitely be ordering a copy too! (Victor - you really don't  
need to be SO modest! ;-)  )

Looks like it won't hit these shores till November, though…

Joe

email:	info@joeofarrell.com
web:	www.joeofarrell.com

phone:	+353 85 788 8854

skype:	joeofarrell




On 10 Jun 2010, at 20:01, Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:

> I have a pretty good book in mind for you.  In it, you learn C and C 
> ++ and some Objective C
>
> It's called:
>
> The Audio Programming Book
> edited by Richard Boulanger and Victor Lazzarini
>
> (coming later this summer from MIT Press)



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We are hoping that it will be in the stores sooner than that.  We'll  
see.  Their "pre" press release was a "safe" guess.

-dB

On Jun 12, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joe O'Farrell wrote:

> I'll definitely be ordering a copy too! (Victor - you really don't  
> need to be SO modest! ;-)  )
>
> Looks like it won't hit these shores till November, though…
>
> Joe
>
> email:	info@joeofarrell.com
> web:	www.joeofarrell.com
>
> phone:	+353 85 788 8854
>
> skype:	joeofarrell
>
>
>
>
> On 10 Jun 2010, at 20:01, Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
>
>> I have a pretty good book in mind for you.  In it, you learn C and C 
>> ++ and some Objective C
>>
>> It's called:
>>
>> The Audio Programming Book
>> edited by Richard Boulanger and Victor Lazzarini
>>
>> (coming later this summer from MIT Press)
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>



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Just a minor nitpick, the DSSI opcodes (if that's what you mean by the
LADSPA opcodes) are written in plain C.

Cheers,
Andrés

On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:51 AM, Michael Gogins
 wrote:
> All the Csound opcodes that I have written have been written in C++:
>
> Chua's oscillator
> Doppler
> Linear algebra opcodes (dozens)
> STK opcodes (dozens)
> Mixer opcodes
> Jacko opcodes
> Signal flow graph opcodes
> ampmidid opcode, rescales MIDI amplitudes to specific dynamic range
> (needs to get into manual)
>
> I also have helped with vst4cs which is written in C++.
>
> Gabriel Maldonado's FLTK opcodes are written in C++.
>
> The Loris opcodes by Kelly Fitz are written in C++.
>
> The Csound and CppSound classes, basis for all the API wrappers for
> Python etc, are written by Istvan Varga and myself in C++.
>
> The Fluidsynth opcodes were originally written by me in C++, then
> Steven Yi fixed some logical bugs that I had created and rewrote them
> in C, then I rewrote Steven Yi's code in C++ again.
>
> So, a good chunk of Csound, if you count the opcodes, actually is
> written in C++, including a considerable amount of signal processing.
>
> The LADSPA opcodes are in C++.
>
> The whole CsoundAC package by me for algorithmic composition is written in C++.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Chuckk Hubbard
>  wrote:
>> Unless something's changed, Csound itself is written entirely in C.
>> I've heard talk of C being great for signal processing; I haven't delved
>> very deeply into either, but from what I see it seems like the unique parts
>> of C++ help to organize larger projects. I also think it's harder to learn;
>> it has some of everything.
>>
>> -Chuckk
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 12:59 AM, Peiman Khosravi 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow,
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for the comments.
>>>
>>> First of all, the Audio Programming Book that Dr Boulanger mentioned
>>> sounds absolutely amazing. I am going to pre-order it for sure :-)
>>>
>>> As I haven't got a lot of time on my hands to dedicate to programming I
>>> think it would make sense for me to start learning C. This will allow me to
>>> at least start writing some simple code and eventually study some of the
>>> csound opcodes (PVS is where I wanna be heading!!).
>>>
>>> When I become confident with C and if I feel the need to move onto C++ for
>>> larger projects I shall start learning that too.
>>>
>>> Having said these I understand the comments about developing habits.
>>> Taking Csound as an example, since I started learning DSP on csound I have
>>> always found it very difficult to look at SC3 code, and although I
>>> understand the syntax it doesn't feel intuitive - at the same time I can see
>>> its benefits and flexibility. The whole object orientated approach scares me
>>> immensely! On the other hand I've played around with Python a bit and find
>>> it very intuitive, so then again it depends on the specific language I
>>> guess.
>>>
>>> Thanks again for all the ideas and recommendations.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Peiman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 Jun 2010, at 21:13, Mark Van Peteghem wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael Bechard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Going the other way around, if you learn C++ first you'll learn almost
>>>>> (99.99%) everything there is to know in C and be thankful you're not
>>>>> constrained to write everything as a function or a struct (and in fact know
>>>>> better not to).
>>>>
>>>> I'd say 90% at most, because C has things that have better replacements
>>>> in C++, so you don't learn them in C++, like alloc, free and fopen. That's
>>>> why I would have a very hard time programming in C even though I program in
>>>> C++ for a living.
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Gogins
> Irreducible Productions
> http://www.michael-gogins.com
> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>



-- 


Andrés


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the examples of the last Csound Book are possible to run with the csound
program downloadable from SoundForge. What will be needed to run the
examples/code of the new/future Csound book.
Thanks in advance for the answer.   Spija


csounder wrote:
> 
> I have a pretty good book in mind for you.  In it, you learn C and C++  
> and some Objective C
> 
> It's called:
> 
> The Audio Programming Book
> edited by Richard Boulanger and Victor Lazzarini
> 
> (coming later this summer from MIT Press)
> 
> with major contributing authors including:
> Richard Dobson, John ffitch, Victor Lazzarini, Gabriel Maldonado, Eric  
> Lyon, Steven Yi, Dave Phillips, .... and many many more.
> (The do cover some Csound in here - and how to use Csound to write  
> Apple Audio Units and iPhone Apps too)
> 
> 1000 pages in printed text
> 2000 pages (42 more chapters) on DVD
> 
> TONS of working CODE in C and C++  (mostly in C)
> 
> all working sourcecode on DVD  with step-by-step example guides to  
> compile on any OS
> 
> we have been working on it for 10 years now.
> 
> Here is the URL at amazon to pre-order:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Programming-Book-Richard-Boulanger/dp/0262014467
> 
> 
> Here is the initial blurb at MIT Press:
> 
> http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=12283
> 
> 
> More news will follow as we get closer to the actual "in-store date"
> 
> 
> But for now, if you would like to review a slightly older version of  
> the Table of Contents and an Overview of the Book and DVD chapters
> you can download and check out these PDF files:
> 
> http://csounds.com/4APBOverviewsPDF.zip
> 
> 
>   Coming Soon,
> 
> Dr. B.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Peiman Khosravi wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm planing on learning some serious programming this summer. Mainly  
>> so that I can start writing/modifying opcodes and max externals.
>>
>> So the question is: would it be better to start with C and then go  
>> into C++ or jump straight into C++? And can anyone recommend a good  
>> book?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Peiman
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
> 
> 
> 

Most of the examples will run with the free GNU gcc/g++ compilers that
usually come with OSX and most *nix platforms. If you work on windows
you'll probably want to download mingw.

Rory.

On 15 June 2010 13:30, superpija2  wrote:
>
> the examples of the last Csound Book are possible to run with the csound
> program downloadable from SoundForge. What will be needed to run the
> examples/code of the new/future Csound book.
> Thanks in advance for the answer.   Spija
>
>
> csounder wrote:
>>
>> I have a pretty good book in mind for you.  In it, you learn C and C++
>> and some Objective C
>>
>> It's called:
>>
>> The Audio Programming Book
>> edited by Richard Boulanger and Victor Lazzarini
>>
>> (coming later this summer from MIT Press)
>>
>> with major contributing authors including:
>> Richard Dobson, John ffitch, Victor Lazzarini, Gabriel Maldonado, Eric
>> Lyon, Steven Yi, Dave Phillips, .... and many many more.
>> (The do cover some Csound in here - and how to use Csound to write
>> Apple Audio Units and iPhone Apps too)
>>
>> 1000 pages in printed text
>> 2000 pages (42 more chapters) on DVD
>>
>> TONS of working CODE in C and C++  (mostly in C)
>>
>> all working sourcecode on DVD  with step-by-step example guides to
>> compile on any OS
>>
>> we have been working on it for 10 years now.
>>
>> Here is the URL at amazon to pre-order:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Programming-Book-Richard-Boulanger/dp/0262014467
>>
>>
>> Here is the initial blurb at MIT Press:
>>
>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=12283
>>
>>
>> More news will follow as we get closer to the actual "in-store date"
>>
>>
>> But for now, if you would like to review a slightly older version of
>> the Table of Contents and an Overview of the Book and DVD chapters
>> you can download and check out these PDF files:
>>
>> http://csounds.com/4APBOverviewsPDF.zip
>>
>>
>>   Coming Soon,
>>
>> Dr. B.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Peiman Khosravi wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm planing on learning some serious programming this summer. Mainly
>>> so that I can start writing/modifying opcodes and max externals.
>>>
>>> So the question is: would it be better to start with C and then go
>>> into C++ or jump straight into C++? And can anyone recommend a good
>>> book?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>>
>>> Peiman
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Learning-C-or-C%2B%2B-tp28846943p28890696.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


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