If there is a phase change between partials and an constructive/destructive interference occurs,
with amplitude changes, then the wave may distort a bit or go in and out of distortion.
That's been my experience using Cosine trig functions on harmonics/partials. Haven't tried 
the "buzz" or "gbuzz" yet, and I use GEN10 every now and then, 
but now you've got me curious,... thanks.

-Partev


======================================================================================


--- Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie wrote:

From: Victor Lazzarini 
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: buzz and gbuzz - why does the documentation so specifically talk about cosines?
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 23:38:11 +0100

The manual seems to say that buzz produces a set of sine partials, but  
from its output I see a typical sum of cosines (blp). A sum of sines  
produces a bipolar pulse (you can see it by using GEN10 with 1 1 1 1 1  
1 ...).

On my machine, gbuzz appears to be buggy, producing a unscaled signal.  
Since I have never used it, I'm not sure whether that is supposed to  
be the case.
GEN 11 appears to be OK.

Victor


On 5 Jun 2010, at 20:33, Richard Dobson wrote:

> The short tech answer is that this is simply how the trigonometry  
> works out.
>
> The alternative answer notes that cos(0) = 1 for all frequencies, so  
> that stacking cosines aligns all harmonic partials at their peaks.  
> This is how we can get a pulse wave which actually looks like a  
> (bandlimited) pulse wave, at the amplitude we ask for. Use sines and  
> the peaks will be at different positions for each partial, resulting  
> in both a non pulse-like waveform and somewhat lower net amplitudes.
>
>
> Richard Dobson
>
> On 05/06/2010 19:43, Martin Peach wrote:
>> sin(0) = 0, cos(0) = 1
>> so starting from zero, sin should be smoother...
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> Jason Timm wrote:
>>> Is it cause a cosine's phase starts at 0., helping eliminate the
>>> dreaded amplitude discrepancy click. That's what I always thought.
>>>
>>> -J
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>



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_____________________________________________________________
Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.


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Two things: looking at the code, gbuzz appears to be eq(1) of Moorer's  
DSF paper. So it should produce a sum of sines, not cosines.
But gbuzz's output is not quite right. I'll need to check this more  
carefully.

Victor


On 6 Jun 2010, at 00:13, Partev Barr Sarkissian wrote:

> If there is a phase change between partials and an constructive/ 
> destructive interference occurs,
> with amplitude changes, then the wave may distort a bit or go in and  
> out of distortion.
> That's been my experience using Cosine trig functions on harmonics/ 
> partials. Haven't tried
> the "buzz" or "gbuzz" yet, and I use GEN10 every now and then,
> but now you've got me curious,... thanks.
>
> -Partev
>
>
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> = 
> ======================================================================
>
>
> --- Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie wrote:
>
> From: Victor Lazzarini 
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: buzz and gbuzz - why does the  
> documentation so specifically talk about cosines?
> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 23:38:11 +0100
>
> The manual seems to say that buzz produces a set of sine partials, but
> from its output I see a typical sum of cosines (blp). A sum of sines
> produces a bipolar pulse (you can see it by using GEN10 with 1 1 1 1 1
> 1 ...).
>
> On my machine, gbuzz appears to be buggy, producing a unscaled signal.
> Since I have never used it, I'm not sure whether that is supposed to
> be the case.
> GEN 11 appears to be OK.
>
> Victor
>
>
> On 5 Jun 2010, at 20:33, Richard Dobson wrote:
>
>> The short tech answer is that this is simply how the trigonometry
>> works out.
>>
>> The alternative answer notes that cos(0) = 1 for all frequencies, so
>> that stacking cosines aligns all harmonic partials at their peaks.
>> This is how we can get a pulse wave which actually looks like a
>> (bandlimited) pulse wave, at the amplitude we ask for. Use sines and
>> the peaks will be at different positions for each partial, resulting
>> in both a non pulse-like waveform and somewhat lower net amplitudes.
>>
>>
>> Richard Dobson
>>
>> On 05/06/2010 19:43, Martin Peach wrote:
>>> sin(0) = 0, cos(0) = 1
>>> so starting from zero, sin should be smoother...
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> Jason Timm wrote:
>>>> Is it cause a cosine's phase starts at 0., helping eliminate the
>>>> dreaded amplitude discrepancy click. That's what I always thought.
>>>>
>>>> -J
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>
>
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>



Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Of course, the manual asks for a cosine not a sine. That's why it was  
not working.
On 6 Jun 2010, at 00:34, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

> Two things: looking at the code, gbuzz appears to be eq(1) of  
> Moorer's DSF paper. So it should produce a sum of sines, not cosines.
> But gbuzz's output is not quite right. I'll need to check this more  
> carefully.
>
> Victor
>
>
> On 6 Jun 2010, at 00:13, Partev Barr Sarkissian wrote:
>
>> If there is a phase change between partials and an constructive/ 
>> destructive interference occurs,
>> with amplitude changes, then the wave may distort a bit or go in  
>> and out of distortion.
>> That's been my experience using Cosine trig functions on harmonics/ 
>> partials. Haven't tried
>> the "buzz" or "gbuzz" yet, and I use GEN10 every now and then,
>> but now you've got me curious,... thanks.
>>
>> -Partev
>>
>>
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> = 
>> =====================================================================
>>
>>
>> --- Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie wrote:
>>
>> From: Victor Lazzarini 
>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: buzz and gbuzz - why does the  
>> documentation so specifically talk about cosines?
>> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 23:38:11 +0100
>>
>> The manual seems to say that buzz produces a set of sine partials,  
>> but
>> from its output I see a typical sum of cosines (blp). A sum of sines
>> produces a bipolar pulse (you can see it by using GEN10 with 1 1 1  
>> 1 1
>> 1 ...).
>>
>> On my machine, gbuzz appears to be buggy, producing a unscaled  
>> signal.
>> Since I have never used it, I'm not sure whether that is supposed to
>> be the case.
>> GEN 11 appears to be OK.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>>
>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 20:33, Richard Dobson wrote:
>>
>>> The short tech answer is that this is simply how the trigonometry
>>> works out.
>>>
>>> The alternative answer notes that cos(0) = 1 for all frequencies, so
>>> that stacking cosines aligns all harmonic partials at their peaks.
>>> This is how we can get a pulse wave which actually looks like a
>>> (bandlimited) pulse wave, at the amplitude we ask for. Use sines and
>>> the peaks will be at different positions for each partial, resulting
>>> in both a non pulse-like waveform and somewhat lower net amplitudes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Dobson
>>>
>>> On 05/06/2010 19:43, Martin Peach wrote:
>>>> sin(0) = 0, cos(0) = 1
>>>> so starting from zero, sin should be smoother...
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> Jason Timm wrote:
>>>>> Is it cause a cosine's phase starts at 0., helping eliminate the
>>>>> dreaded amplitude discrepancy click. That's what I always thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> -J
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>         https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________
>> Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>



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Thanks everyone, especially Richard.
That makes perfect sense, I'm glad I'm helping others when I ask a
"dumb" question, and my basic trig could use some brushing up.
Now that I've "heard" this I'm remembering being told - maybe even in
10th grade . . .

Greg


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*Richard Dobson was who I had in mind, although Dr. Boulanger was
certainly helpful.

On 6/6/10, Greg Schroeder  wrote:
> Thanks everyone, especially Richard.
> That makes perfect sense, I'm glad I'm helping others when I ask a
> "dumb" question, and my basic trig could use some brushing up.
> Now that I've "heard" this I'm remembering being told - maybe even in
> 10th grade . . .
>
> Greg
>


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