Dear Menno!

Why don't you give yourself credit for any of the 100s of examples you
have updated in the manual? Some examples are signed by their authors,
but not yours? Credit where credit is due man!


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Speaking of examples, I also found some of my code in the outletk and
inletk examples.

On 11/23/11, Rory Walsh  wrote:
> Dear Menno!
>
> Why don't you give yourself credit for any of the 100s of examples you
> have updated in the manual? Some examples are signed by their authors,
> but not yours? Credit where credit is due man!
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>


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Agree!

Sent from my iPhone.

On Nov 23, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Rory Walsh  wrote:

> Dear Menno!
> 
> Why don't you give yourself credit for any of the 100s of examples you
> have updated in the manual? Some examples are signed by their authors,
> but not yours? Credit where credit is due man!
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 


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You are right Adam, i did use your example.
Normally i contact the person and ask him if his example can be used in the
manual. I did not contact you, somehow i forgot, i don't know why. I
apologize.
If you want i will take the example out - which would be a pity, because
this example for inletk and outletk exactly meets the conditions i think
that makes it the perfect example for these 2 opcodes: it's simple, plain
and good.

There are lots of opcodes for which i do not know an example, so i browse
the mailing list archive and collect examples. The examples found will give
me an idea what the original opcode was designed for, then i try to simplify
it so, that the core of the opcode remains and all the luxury is gone. Most
of the times the remaining example will have no direct comparison with the
example i found; no need to contact the creator of the example.
In your case, Adam, i forgot. 

regards,
Menno


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Meno,

You have my permission to keep it in the manual. I was glad to see my
code there.

On 11/23/11, menno  wrote:
> You are right Adam, i did use your example.
> Normally i contact the person and ask him if his example can be used in the
> manual. I did not contact you, somehow i forgot, i don't know why. I
> apologize.
> If you want i will take the example out - which would be a pity, because
> this example for inletk and outletk exactly meets the conditions i think
> that makes it the perfect example for these 2 opcodes: it's simple, plain
> and good.
>
> There are lots of opcodes for which i do not know an example, so i browse
> the mailing list archive and collect examples. The examples found will give
> me an idea what the original opcode was designed for, then i try to simplify
> it so, that the core of the opcode remains and all the luxury is gone. Most
> of the times the remaining example will have no direct comparison with the
> example i found; no need to contact the creator of the example.
> In your case, Adam, i forgot.
>
> regards,
> Menno
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/manual-examples-Dear-Menno-tp5017084p5017470.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>


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Mr. Rory is right, i agree.
Thanks for Your work Menno.

ciao,
francesco.


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Hi Rory, Richard, Francesco, Adam,

first of all: thanks for your permission, Adam, and for your great example
on behalf of the inletk/outletk opcodes!

I will tell you some of my reasons why i decided not to put my name to the
examples i have put in the manual.
First of all, i like a manual to be as clean as possible, without any
distraction and giving full focus on the (use of) the opcode.
Another reason is that i do not want to see my name all over the place; i
have put my name in the Preface of the manual, so i will never be forgotten
:)
Also: it's all about exposing the potential of an opcode, that could have
stayed a black box for many people, including me! This leads to yet another
reason: i found that it is - for me - a very good way to learn Csound, and
also to get in contact with other Csounders so that i can learn even more.
This is my reward. 
There are several people that help me in my project and it's fun to discuss
with them how to proceed for a particular example. Putting all those names
in would would give the manual page an even fuzzier look, so i prevent that
by not putting in any names at all.
Like i said, i browse the mailing list archive and if i find an example of
that particular opcode, i tweak it until only the heart of that opcode
remains. So i look at the work of other people and reorganize that, simplify
it. Lots of information is already there, you just have to take the time to
put it in the right place. 
But sometimes it is not so obvious when an example becomes "my" code, it is
a grey erea. I think it's stupid to change a vco2 for a pluck opcode and
then say it's mine! 
No, it's open source.

Of course there are dozens examples that i made all alone.

And i just want to have a good example for every opcode and if no one is
doing that job i will. That's open source too: i have the power....

There are more reasons - but i do not want to bother you with my troubled
youth :) (joke i hope)
I want you to know that i feel in perfect balance with my decision not
putting my name on every page of the manual.

bye,
Menno


-------------My music-----------------
http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/6789/
http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7428/
-------------My work-----------------
http://members.home.nl/mag.knevel/


--- On Thu, 11/24/11, francesco  wrote:

> From: francesco 
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: manual examples...(Dear Menno..)
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Date: Thursday, November 24, 2011, 9:32 AM
> Mr. Rory is right, i agree.
> Thanks for Your work Menno.
> 
> ciao,
> francesco.
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/manual-examples-Dear-Menno-tp5017084p5019569.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk
> with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
>



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As you wish! But I'll be telling everybody of the wonderful work
you've done whether you like it or not ;)

On 24 November 2011 17:10, menno  wrote:
> Hi Rory, Richard, Francesco, Adam,
>
> first of all: thanks for your permission, Adam, and for your great example
> on behalf of the inletk/outletk opcodes!
>
> I will tell you some of my reasons why i decided not to put my name to the
> examples i have put in the manual.
> First of all, i like a manual to be as clean as possible, without any
> distraction and giving full focus on the (use of) the opcode.
> Another reason is that i do not want to see my name all over the place; i
> have put my name in the Preface of the manual, so i will never be forgotten
> :)
> Also: it's all about exposing the potential of an opcode, that could have
> stayed a black box for many people, including me! This leads to yet another
> reason: i found that it is - for me - a very good way to learn Csound, and
> also to get in contact with other Csounders so that i can learn even more.
> This is my reward.
> There are several people that help me in my project and it's fun to discuss
> with them how to proceed for a particular example. Putting all those names
> in would would give the manual page an even fuzzier look, so i prevent that
> by not putting in any names at all.
> Like i said, i browse the mailing list archive and if i find an example of
> that particular opcode, i tweak it until only the heart of that opcode
> remains. So i look at the work of other people and reorganize that, simplify
> it. Lots of information is already there, you just have to take the time to
> put it in the right place.
> But sometimes it is not so obvious when an example becomes "my" code, it is
> a grey erea. I think it's stupid to change a vco2 for a pluck opcode and
> then say it's mine!
> No, it's open source.
>
> Of course there are dozens examples that i made all alone.
>
> And i just want to have a good example for every opcode and if no one is
> doing that job i will. That's open source too: i have the power....
>
> There are more reasons - but i do not want to bother you with my troubled
> youth :) (joke i hope)
> I want you to know that i feel in perfect balance with my decision not
> putting my name on every page of the manual.
>
> bye,
> Menno
>
>
> -------------My music-----------------
> http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/6789/
> http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7428/
> -------------My work-----------------
> http://members.home.nl/mag.knevel/
>
>
> --- On Thu, 11/24/11, francesco  wrote:
>
>> From: francesco 
>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: manual examples...(Dear Menno..)
>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> Date: Thursday, November 24, 2011, 9:32 AM
>> Mr. Rory is right, i agree.
>> Thanks for Your work Menno.
>>
>> ciao,
>> francesco.
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/manual-examples-Dear-Menno-tp5017084p5019569.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/manual-examples-Dear-Menno-tp5017084p5020714.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


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I understand your reasons -- I found it embarassing to have my name in the
manual so often until I realised it was just so users would know whom to
blame.

==John ff

> Hi Rory, Richard, Francesco, Adam,
>
> first of all: thanks for your permission, Adam, and for your great example
> on behalf of the inletk/outletk opcodes!
>
> I will tell you some of my reasons why i decided not to put my name to the
> examples i have put in the manual.
> First of all, i like a manual to be as clean as possible, without any
> distraction and giving full focus on the (use of) the opcode.
> Another reason is that i do not want to see my name all over the place; i
> have put my name in the Preface of the manual, so i will never be
> forgotten
> :)
> Also: it's all about exposing the potential of an opcode, that could have
> stayed a black box for many people, including me! This leads to yet
> another
> reason: i found that it is - for me - a very good way to learn Csound, and
> also to get in contact with other Csounders so that i can learn even more.
> This is my reward.
> There are several people that help me in my project and it's fun to
> discuss
> with them how to proceed for a particular example. Putting all those names
> in would would give the manual page an even fuzzier look, so i prevent
> that
> by not putting in any names at all.
> Like i said, i browse the mailing list archive and if i find an example of
> that particular opcode, i tweak it until only the heart of that opcode
> remains. So i look at the work of other people and reorganize that,
> simplify
> it. Lots of information is already there, you just have to take the time
> to
> put it in the right place.
> But sometimes it is not so obvious when an example becomes "my" code, it
> is
> a grey erea. I think it's stupid to change a vco2 for a pluck opcode and
> then say it's mine!
> No, it's open source.
>
> Of course there are dozens examples that i made all alone.
>
> And i just want to have a good example for every opcode and if no one is
> doing that job i will. That's open source too: i have the power....
>
> There are more reasons - but i do not want to bother you with my troubled
> youth :) (joke i hope)
> I want you to know that i feel in perfect balance with my decision not
> putting my name on every page of the manual.
>
> bye,
> Menno
>
>
> -------------My music-----------------
> http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/6789/
> http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7428/
> -------------My work-----------------
> http://members.home.nl/mag.knevel/
>
>
> --- On Thu, 11/24/11, francesco  wrote:
>
>> From: francesco 
>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: manual examples...(Dear Menno..)
>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> Date: Thursday, November 24, 2011, 9:32 AM
>> Mr. Rory is right, i agree.
>> Thanks for Your work Menno.
>>
>> ciao,
>> francesco.
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/manual-examples-Dear-Menno-tp5017084p5019569.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            
>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/manual-examples-Dear-Menno-tp5017084p5020714.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>
>
>




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Allright, why not... tell them also the work is not done :)
(Working on the letter V at the moment and i want to look into the GEN's examples too.)
And point them to the list with opcodes i could not provide examples for : http://www.csounds.com/node/1394

Also i'm thinking about a Play button on every manual page that should play an OGG file of that example. It would be nice that for instance you are looking for a filter you can quickly browse the examples to hear what different filters sound like. But perhaps that way people can become too lazy and not try out different seetings of the same filter...don't know yet.
Feedback is appreciated.
And the manual would become much bigger in Mbytes, although that is not a problem anymore these days.
 
Menno

-------------My music-----------------
http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/6789/
http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7428/
-------------My work-----------------
http://members.home.nl/mag.knevel/


--- On Thu, 11/24/11, Rory Walsh  wrote:

> From: Rory Walsh 
> Subject: Re: [Csnd] Re: manual examples...(Dear Menno..)
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Date: Thursday, November 24, 2011, 6:19 PM
> As you wish! But I'll be telling
> everybody of the wonderful work
> you've done whether you like it or not ;)
> 
> On 24 November 2011 17:10, menno 
> wrote:
> > Hi Rory, Richard, Francesco, Adam,
> >
> > first of all: thanks for your permission, Adam, and
> for your great example
> > on behalf of the inletk/outletk opcodes!
> >
> > I will tell you some of my reasons why i decided not
> to put my name to the
> > examples i have put in the manual.
> > First of all, i like a manual to be as clean as
> possible, without any
> > distraction and giving full focus on the (use of) the
> opcode.
> > Another reason is that i do not want to see my name
> all over the place; i
> > have put my name in the Preface of the manual, so i
> will never be forgotten
> > :)
> > Also: it's all about exposing the potential of an
> opcode, that could have
> > stayed a black box for many people, including me! This
> leads to yet another
> > reason: i found that it is - for me - a very good way
> to learn Csound, and
> > also to get in contact with other Csounders so that i
> can learn even more.
> > This is my reward.
> > There are several people that help me in my project
> and it's fun to discuss
> > with them how to proceed for a particular example.
> Putting all those names
> > in would would give the manual page an even fuzzier
> look, so i prevent that
> > by not putting in any names at all.
> > Like i said, i browse the mailing list archive and if
> i find an example of
> > that particular opcode, i tweak it until only the
> heart of that opcode
> > remains. So i look at the work of other people and
> reorganize that, simplify
> > it. Lots of information is already there, you just
> have to take the time to
> > put it in the right place.
> > But sometimes it is not so obvious when an example
> becomes "my" code, it is
> > a grey erea. I think it's stupid to change a vco2 for
> a pluck opcode and
> > then say it's mine!
> > No, it's open source.
> >
> > Of course there are dozens examples that i made all
> alone.
> >
> > And i just want to have a good example for every
> opcode and if no one is
> > doing that job i will. That's open source too: i have
> the power....
> >
> > There are more reasons - but i do not want to bother
> you with my troubled
> > youth :) (joke i hope)
> > I want you to know that i feel in perfect balance with
> my decision not
> > putting my name on every page of the manual.
> >
> > bye,
> > Menno
> >
> >
> > -------------My music-----------------
> > http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/6789/
> > http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7428/
> > -------------My work-----------------
> > http://members.home.nl/mag.knevel/
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 11/24/11, francesco 
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: francesco 
> >> Subject: [Csnd] Re: manual examples...(Dear
> Menno..)
> >> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> >> Date: Thursday, November 24, 2011, 9:32 AM
> >> Mr. Rory is right, i agree.
> >> Thanks for Your work Menno.
> >>
> >> ciao,
> >> francesco.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/manual-examples-Dear-Menno-tp5017084p5019569.html
> >> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list
> archive at
> >> Nabble.com.
> >>
> >>
> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
> >>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted
> here
> >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk
> >> with body "unsubscribe csound"
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/manual-examples-Dear-Menno-tp5017084p5020714.html
> > Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> >
> >
> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
> >            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk
> with body "unsubscribe csound"
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk
> with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 
>


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That's a great idea I think. I'll be happy to help out with rendering
the examples and converting them to OGG. Gives me an excuse to go
through all the opcodes I don't know. Although I will only have the
time after January.

P

On 24 November 2011 17:33, menno  wrote:
> Allright, why not... tell them also the work is not done :)
> (Working on the letter V at the moment and i want to look into the GEN's examples too.)
> And point them to the list with opcodes i could not provide examples for : http://www.csounds.com/node/1394
>
> Also i'm thinking about a Play button on every manual page that should play an OGG file of that example. It would be nice that for instance you are looking for a filter you can quickly browse the examples to hear what different filters sound like. But perhaps that way people can become too lazy and not try out different seetings of the same filter...don't know yet.
> Feedback is appreciated.
> And the manual would become much bigger in Mbytes, although that is not a problem anymore these days.
>
> Menno
>
> -------------My music-----------------
> http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/6789/
> http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7428/
> -------------My work-----------------
> http://members.home.nl/mag.knevel/
>
>
> --- On Thu, 11/24/11, Rory Walsh  wrote:
>
>> From: Rory Walsh 
>> Subject: Re: [Csnd] Re: manual examples...(Dear Menno..)
>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> Date: Thursday, November 24, 2011, 6:19 PM
>> As you wish! But I'll be telling
>> everybody of the wonderful work
>> you've done whether you like it or not ;)
>>
>> On 24 November 2011 17:10, menno 
>> wrote:
>> > Hi Rory, Richard, Francesco, Adam,
>> >
>> > first of all: thanks for your permission, Adam, and
>> for your great example
>> > on behalf of the inletk/outletk opcodes!
>> >
>> > I will tell you some of my reasons why i decided not
>> to put my name to the
>> > examples i have put in the manual.
>> > First of all, i like a manual to be as clean as
>> possible, without any
>> > distraction and giving full focus on the (use of) the
>> opcode.
>> > Another reason is that i do not want to see my name
>> all over the place; i
>> > have put my name in the Preface of the manual, so i
>> will never be forgotten
>> > :)
>> > Also: it's all about exposing the potential of an
>> opcode, that could have
>> > stayed a black box for many people, including me! This
>> leads to yet another
>> > reason: i found that it is - for me - a very good way
>> to learn Csound, and
>> > also to get in contact with other Csounders so that i
>> can learn even more.
>> > This is my reward.
>> > There are several people that help me in my project
>> and it's fun to discuss
>> > with them how to proceed for a particular example.
>> Putting all those names
>> > in would would give the manual page an even fuzzier
>> look, so i prevent that
>> > by not putting in any names at all.
>> > Like i said, i browse the mailing list archive and if
>> i find an example of
>> > that particular opcode, i tweak it until only the
>> heart of that opcode
>> > remains. So i look at the work of other people and
>> reorganize that, simplify
>> > it. Lots of information is already there, you just
>> have to take the time to
>> > put it in the right place.
>> > But sometimes it is not so obvious when an example
>> becomes "my" code, it is
>> > a grey erea. I think it's stupid to change a vco2 for
>> a pluck opcode and
>> > then say it's mine!
>> > No, it's open source.
>> >
>> > Of course there are dozens examples that i made all
>> alone.
>> >
>> > And i just want to have a good example for every
>> opcode and if no one is
>> > doing that job i will. That's open source too: i have
>> the power....
>> >
>> > There are more reasons - but i do not want to bother
>> you with my troubled
>> > youth :) (joke i hope)
>> > I want you to know that i feel in perfect balance with
>> my decision not
>> > putting my name on every page of the manual.
>> >
>> > bye,
>> > Menno
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------My music-----------------
>> > http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/6789/
>> > http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7428/
>> > -------------My work-----------------
>> > http://members.home.nl/mag.knevel/
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Thu, 11/24/11, francesco 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: francesco 
>> >> Subject: [Csnd] Re: manual examples...(Dear
>> Menno..)
>> >> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> >> Date: Thursday, November 24, 2011, 9:32 AM
>> >> Mr. Rory is right, i agree.
>> >> Thanks for Your work Menno.
>> >>
>> >> ciao,
>> >> francesco.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> View this message in context:
>> >> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/manual-examples-Dear-Menno-tp5017084p5019569.html
>> >> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list
>> archive at
>> >> Nabble.com.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>> >>             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted
>> here
>> >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> >> with body "unsubscribe csound"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/manual-examples-Dear-Menno-tp5017084p5020714.html
>> > Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>> >
>> >
>> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>> >            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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>> with body "unsubscribe csound"
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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>> with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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>


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Yes John i think that is the best argument of putting one's name on ones
work. It's shows who is responsible for that work. And i think when you are
a developer and create an opcode from scratch, then it would be welcome to
sign it off with the name of the creator. Every artist does that.
But i do not see myself as a creator on that level: the opcode is already
there. But i do see that the manual and its contents sometimes lack
transparency because of this missing of simple examples. It is by running an
example i personally get the "aha-erlebnis". A connection between my heart
(by means of my ears) and the sometimes mathematical text comes alive. And
my guess is that for some newcomers to Csound it might work like that too.

greetings
Menno


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