Duh,.... goofy me. I should've known that one, 
being a Mac & Digital Performer user. Core Audio,... I keep 
forgetting. I keep think in terms of Open Music Format. Maybe 
because in college we got used to going back and forth from
DP4 to Pro Tools and back again. Saving a file as an OMF was
a must, or you end up with soundbites in places you don't 
want them.

Thanks, cheers,
-Partev


==================================================



--- jclements77@gmail.com wrote:

From: John Clements 
To: "csound@lists.bath.ac.uk" 
Subject: Re: [Csnd] Re: multichannel feature request for soundin
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 21:05:00 -0400

.caf is apple core audio format.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Audio_Format

John C


John Clements

On Apr 2, 2011, at 7:19 PM, "Partev Barr Sarkissian"  wrote:

> I know what AIFF (**.aif), Wave (**.wav) and even Sound 
> Designer II (**.sd2) are,.....
> 
> UCSB, is Uni of Cal Santa Barbara?
> 
> IMO??? forgot what that was.
> CAF,... saw that in some lit recently, but forgot what it was.
> Circular Audio Field???
> 
> Sorry for my momentary forgetting.
> 
> -Partev
> 
> 
> ===========================================================
> 
> --- audiodidact@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> From: Eric Lyon 
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: [Csnd] Re: multichannel feature request for soundin
> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:09:47 +0100
> 
> On   Fri,   Apr   1,   2011   at   10:25   AM,  Richard  Dobson
>  wrote:
> 
> On 01/04/2011 08:31, Eric Lyon wrote:
> 
>  Hi John,
>  It might be worth doing the modification you suggest in any case,
>  and then
>  future opcodes would benefit from a more straightforward channel
>  specification scheme. I'd also suggest modifying Csound so that the
>  channel
>  output profile is determined on a per-instrument basis, rather than
>  globally
>  with nchnls.
>  In any case, the current 24 channel limit is too low. For example,
>  BEAST at
>  Birmingham deploys over 100 speakers. SARC is currently at 48 with
>  plans for
>  further expansion. The UCSB Allosphere has around 500 individual
>  speaker
>  elements.
> 
>  Those are presumably outputs? I think it is 4th order B-Format that
>  requires  a  25  channel format for full periphony (rare for
>  Ambisonics to fill a tidy multiple of 8!). For large channel
>  widths, the old and loved (?) AIFF and WAVE file formats rapidly
>  run out of space, being limited to 4GB; the more so of course if
>  the new and loved (?) high-precision 24/96 formats are used. So
>  worrying about supporting 500 channel AIFF files (much less 2000
>  channels) is IMO a waste of nerves.
> 
> I reiterate my claim that 24 channels is too low a limit.
> Eric
> 
>  It would have to be either CAF, or one of the semi-hacked 64bit
>  version of WAVE - w64 being IMO preferable to the mess that is
>  RF64, despite the latter being endorsed by AES and EBU etc.  I know
>  libsndfile has support for CAF, so that in principle Csound has too
>  (but I think no flag to specify it yet - it still relies on flags
>  rather than reading file extensions, which I still find weird) but
>  I am not sure how comprehensive - examples are not exactly numerous
>  online. I find it hard to believe that the Allosphere folk would
>  actually need to store 500-channel soundfiles; and impossible to
>  beleive they will be using any 32bit capacity file format to do so!
>  Richard Dobson
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To  unsubscribe,  send  email  sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
> "unsubscribe csound"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
> 
> 
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> 


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"





_____________________________________________________________
Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.


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This is a useful attribute of the format:

"A CAF file can store any number of audio channels."

Eric

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 3:17 AM, Partev Barr Sarkissian
 wrote:
>
> Duh,.... goofy me. I should've known that one,
> being a Mac & Digital Performer user. Core Audio,... I keep
> forgetting. I keep think in terms of Open Music Format. Maybe
> because in college we got used to going back and forth from
> DP4 to Pro Tools and back again. Saving a file as an OMF was
> a must, or you end up with soundbites in places you don't
> want them.
>
> Thanks, cheers,
> -Partev
>
>
> ==================================================
>
>
>
> --- jclements77@gmail.com wrote:
>
> From: John Clements 
> To: "csound@lists.bath.ac.uk" 
> Subject: Re: [Csnd] Re: multichannel feature request for soundin
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 21:05:00 -0400
>
> .caf is apple core audio format.
>
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Audio_Format
>
> John C
>
>
> John Clements
>
> On Apr 2, 2011, at 7:19 PM, "Partev Barr Sarkissian"  wrote:
>
> > I know what AIFF (**.aif), Wave (**.wav) and even Sound
> > Designer II (**.sd2) are,.....
> >
> > UCSB, is Uni of Cal Santa Barbara?
> >
> > IMO??? forgot what that was.
> > CAF,... saw that in some lit recently, but forgot what it was.
> > Circular Audio Field???
> >
> > Sorry for my momentary forgetting.
> >
> > -Partev
> >
> >
> > ===========================================================
> >
> > --- audiodidact@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > From: Eric Lyon 
> > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Re: multichannel feature request for soundin
> > Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:09:47 +0100
> >
> > On   Fri,   Apr   1,   2011   at   10:25   AM,  Richard  Dobson
> >  wrote:
> >
> > On 01/04/2011 08:31, Eric Lyon wrote:
> >
> >  Hi John,
> >  It might be worth doing the modification you suggest in any case,
> >  and then
> >  future opcodes would benefit from a more straightforward channel
> >  specification scheme. I'd also suggest modifying Csound so that the
> >  channel
> >  output profile is determined on a per-instrument basis, rather than
> >  globally
> >  with nchnls.
> >  In any case, the current 24 channel limit is too low. For example,
> >  BEAST at
> >  Birmingham deploys over 100 speakers. SARC is currently at 48 with
> >  plans for
> >  further expansion. The UCSB Allosphere has around 500 individual
> >  speaker
> >  elements.
> >
> >  Those are presumably outputs? I think it is 4th order B-Format that
> >  requires  a  25  channel format for full periphony (rare for
> >  Ambisonics to fill a tidy multiple of 8!). For large channel
> >  widths, the old and loved (?) AIFF and WAVE file formats rapidly
> >  run out of space, being limited to 4GB; the more so of course if
> >  the new and loved (?) high-precision 24/96 formats are used. So
> >  worrying about supporting 500 channel AIFF files (much less 2000
> >  channels) is IMO a waste of nerves.
> >
> > I reiterate my claim that 24 channels is too low a limit.
> > Eric
> >
> >  It would have to be either CAF, or one of the semi-hacked 64bit
> >  version of WAVE - w64 being IMO preferable to the mess that is
> >  RF64, despite the latter being endorsed by AES and EBU etc.  I know
> >  libsndfile has support for CAF, so that in principle Csound has too
> >  (but I think no flag to specify it yet - it still relies on flags
> >  rather than reading file extensions, which I still find weird) but
> >  I am not sure how comprehensive - examples are not exactly numerous
> >  online. I find it hard to believe that the Allosphere folk would
> >  actually need to store 500-channel soundfiles; and impossible to
> >  beleive they will be using any 32bit capacity file format to do so!
> >  Richard Dobson
> >
> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
> >          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > To  unsubscribe,  send  email  sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
> > "unsubscribe csound"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
> > Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
> >
> >
> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
> >            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
> >
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Maybe what we need is an array type?

Cheers,
Andres

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 3:39 AM, Eric Lyon  wrote:
> This is a useful attribute of the format:
>
> "A CAF file can store any number of audio channels."
>
> Eric
>
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 3:17 AM, Partev Barr Sarkissian
>  wrote:
>>
>> Duh,.... goofy me. I should've known that one,
>> being a Mac & Digital Performer user. Core Audio,... I keep
>> forgetting. I keep think in terms of Open Music Format. Maybe
>> because in college we got used to going back and forth from
>> DP4 to Pro Tools and back again. Saving a file as an OMF was
>> a must, or you end up with soundbites in places you don't
>> want them.
>>
>> Thanks, cheers,
>> -Partev
>>
>>
>> ==================================================
>>
>>
>>
>> --- jclements77@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> From: John Clements 
>> To: "csound@lists.bath.ac.uk" 
>> Subject: Re: [Csnd] Re: multichannel feature request for soundin
>> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 21:05:00 -0400
>>
>> .caf is apple core audio format.
>>
>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Audio_Format
>>
>> John C
>>
>>
>> John Clements
>>
>> On Apr 2, 2011, at 7:19 PM, "Partev Barr Sarkissian"  wrote:
>>
>> > I know what AIFF (**.aif), Wave (**.wav) and even Sound
>> > Designer II (**.sd2) are,.....
>> >
>> > UCSB, is Uni of Cal Santa Barbara?
>> >
>> > IMO??? forgot what that was.
>> > CAF,... saw that in some lit recently, but forgot what it was.
>> > Circular Audio Field???
>> >
>> > Sorry for my momentary forgetting.
>> >
>> > -Partev
>> >
>> >
>> > ===========================================================
>> >
>> > --- audiodidact@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Eric Lyon 
>> > To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>> > Subject: Re: [Csnd] Re: multichannel feature request for soundin
>> > Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:09:47 +0100
>> >
>> > On   Fri,   Apr   1,   2011   at   10:25   AM,  Richard  Dobson
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> > On 01/04/2011 08:31, Eric Lyon wrote:
>> >
>> >  Hi John,
>> >  It might be worth doing the modification you suggest in any case,
>> >  and then
>> >  future opcodes would benefit from a more straightforward channel
>> >  specification scheme. I'd also suggest modifying Csound so that the
>> >  channel
>> >  output profile is determined on a per-instrument basis, rather than
>> >  globally
>> >  with nchnls.
>> >  In any case, the current 24 channel limit is too low. For example,
>> >  BEAST at
>> >  Birmingham deploys over 100 speakers. SARC is currently at 48 with
>> >  plans for
>> >  further expansion. The UCSB Allosphere has around 500 individual
>> >  speaker
>> >  elements.
>> >
>> >  Those are presumably outputs? I think it is 4th order B-Format that
>> >  requires  a  25  channel format for full periphony (rare for
>> >  Ambisonics to fill a tidy multiple of 8!). For large channel
>> >  widths, the old and loved (?) AIFF and WAVE file formats rapidly
>> >  run out of space, being limited to 4GB; the more so of course if
>> >  the new and loved (?) high-precision 24/96 formats are used. So
>> >  worrying about supporting 500 channel AIFF files (much less 2000
>> >  channels) is IMO a waste of nerves.
>> >
>> > I reiterate my claim that 24 channels is too low a limit.
>> > Eric
>> >
>> >  It would have to be either CAF, or one of the semi-hacked 64bit
>> >  version of WAVE - w64 being IMO preferable to the mess that is
>> >  RF64, despite the latter being endorsed by AES and EBU etc.  I know
>> >  libsndfile has support for CAF, so that in principle Csound has too
>> >  (but I think no flag to specify it yet - it still relies on flags
>> >  rather than reading file extensions, which I still find weird) but
>> >  I am not sure how comprehensive - examples are not exactly numerous
>> >  online. I find it hard to believe that the Allosphere folk would
>> >  actually need to store 500-channel soundfiles; and impossible to
>> >  beleive they will be using any 32bit capacity file format to do so!
>> >  Richard Dobson
>> >
>> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>> >          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> > To  unsubscribe,  send  email  sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>> > "unsubscribe csound"
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _____________________________________________________________
>> > Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
>> >
>> >
>> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>> >            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>> >
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________
>> Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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On 03/04/2011 03:39, Eric Lyon wrote:
> This is a useful attribute of the format:
>
> "A CAF file can store any number of audio channels."
>
> Eric


More to the point, it uses 64bit chunk sizes, so can store files of huge 
size (HD video etc as well as N channels of 24/96 audio). The limitation 
of WAVE and AIFF is not so much the number of channels, but the 4GB 
maximum size.

Richard Dobson


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>
> More to the point, it uses 64bit chunk sizes, so can store files of huge
> size (HD video etc as well as N channels of 24/96 audio). The limitation of
> WAVE and AIFF is not so much the number of channels, but the 4GB maximum
> size.

That's definitely promising. Hopefully CAF will be implemented for
Csound. That format already seems to be supported by libsndfile. In
the meantime, it would be a good thing if Csound could read at least
as many channels from AIFF/WAV files as it is capable of writing to
such files.

Eric



>
> Richard Dobson
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>
>


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