We need to overhaul csound if it is going to rise to the place 
that we think it deserves.
I just recently installed csound again, cause i wanted to/ still 
want to run EXTREMELY cool examples
like Improsculpt.

Whatever happened to Gabriel's RTcsound? with the OpenGL calls?
I agree about JAVA anything. It makes things FEEL so klunky and 
slow, but BLUE is very impressive.

I still basically run Cecilia and use Csound to teach granular 
synthesis now. Along with a few of the Warpers and time tweakers 
included in cecilia other than that i feel like something is 
missing.

I do not have the answer but i would love to participate in this 
more.

Pat Pagano
Digital Worlds Institute
University of Florida



On Sat Sep 12 10:25:21 EDT 2009, Victor Lazzarini 
 wrote:

> I could always include the QuteCsound installer with the OSX 
> packages  too,
> it should be no problem, just another file. Would you think this  
> should help?
> 
> Regards
> Victor
> 
> On 12 Sep 2009, at 15:17, Andres Cabrera wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I think these issues you mention are mostly being addressed with 
>> the
>> new upcoming release (it's been delayed for some time due to
>> scheduling conflicts between devels). Michael has worked hard to
>> ensure the new installers will not have the python dependency 
>> problem,
>> and also the new windows installers will include QuteCsound 
>> (which
>> IMO, but I'm biased =) ), is easy to use for newbies, and 
>> includes a
>> set of examples that can show a few things Csound can do. More
>> examples and suggestions are of course very welcome.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Andr??s
>> 
>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Aaron Johnson 
>>   wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>> 
>>> There's been a discussion over on the Yahoogroups tuning list  
>>> re:Csound.
>>> 
>>> The discussion brought up some valid points and criticisms of the
>>> whole world of Csound. While no one denied Csound was powerful,
>>> everyone agreed that it was the height of 'unfriendly'....
>>> 
>>> consider the following:
>>> 
>>> 1) the installs are broken. they 'work', give a brief ok 
>>> message, but
>>> then you find out you're missing certain components (I haven't 
>>> tried
>>> the latest install, if there is one past 5.10, but that's been my
>>> experience in the past)
>>> 
>>> 1a) If you decide to compile, then you have to deal with Scons, 
>>> which
>>> I think does not live up to it's hype for being easier than  
>>> configure,
>>> make, make install. I want to like Scons, it's written in 
>>> Python  after
>>> all, but let's face it, it causes more problems than it solves. 
>>>  Having
>>> to edit a file, and hand search for parameters you don't even 
>>> know
>>> exist, or are relevant, is a BIG problem. I miss the old 
>>> ./configure
>>> --help, look at options, pick them, and do the actual ./configure
>>> --with-whatever
>>> 
>>> 2) you install, and then there's nothing fun to whet the appetite
>>> after you're done. No demos packaged in, no super-cool 
>>> orchestras or
>>> sounds to say "wow---I can do THAT with Csound???". "Trapped" is
>>> great, but I mean, how about something equivalent to a 
>>> community  built
>>> GM patchset that people can just "plug 'n play"? You are 
>>> basically
>>> given a gas can with your new car, and told to walk 5 miles to 
>>> the
>>> nearest gas station....enjoy your new car, pal---wait you 
>>> wanted gas,
>>> too---no pal, this is free software! :) Basically, this 
>>> translates to
>>> using Google to do hours of research on instrument building and
>>> finding example sco/orc or .csd files on the web from disparate
>>> sources. We've all done it, but can't we agree that it can and 
>>> should
>>> be easier than this? Do we want Csound to grow and compete for
>>> mindshare with Reaktor?
>>> 
>>> 3) frontends like Blue intend to solve this problem to some 
>>> degree,
>>> but they have their own problems, mainly the 800-pound ugly 
>>> that is
>>> Java. Maybe this is my personal issue, but I have a rule: I 
>>> will not
>>> install an entire Java runtime environment for one piece of 
>>> software.
>>> It would be an altogether different story if it were a Python 
>>> GUI.
>>> Python is great, it's completely un-corporate and free, and  
>>> everything
>>> these days uses Python, so it's already on my system. Also, my  
>>> limited
>>> experience with Blue is that it also a bit more confusing at 
>>> first
>>> than promised; however, I have only limited experience with it, 
>>> and
>>> perhaps am biased, as I have lots of experience making my own 
>>> text
>>> orchestras. What we need is a Csound5-like front end that comes 
>>> with
>>> the package with lots of presets that people can set up to 
>>> their MIDI
>>> keyboards and play right away with, from the get-go...the Python
>>> community calls this "batteries included"
>>> 
>>> That said, I still love Csound, but I wish my love could be more
>>> contagious. But I think others are less forgiving of these 
>>> faults,
>>> which are basically packaging issues. In it's current state, 
>>> Csound  is
>>> 'packaged for the choir'---people who already love it---made by 
>>>  geeks,
>>> for geeks.
>>> 
>>> Am I wrong here?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Aaron Krister Johnson
>>> http://www.akjmusic.com
>>> http://www.untwelve.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- Andr??s
>> 
>> 
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
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> 
> 
> 
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> 



Patrick Pagano,M.F.A
Digital Media Engineer
Digital Worlds Institute
GAINESVILLE  FL  US  32611-5900
University Of Florida
(352) 294-2081



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