Rick,

I'll be happy to do such a page at Csounds.com.

I'll need to wait, however, until the project is complete. Three things need 
to happen:
1) The multiple MIDI controller option of 5.10 needs to be patched into the 
Sugar Fedora updates (and shown to work);
2) This all needs to be available in a regular Sugar release (hopefully, 
0.86 but probably later - until then, users/developers won't have easy 
access to all the features of 5.10, and without updates the current and only 
Sugar-on-a-Stick Strawberry [0.84] doesn't have a working Csound at all);
3) My Activities are properly posted at Sugar Labs (to be widely available). 
They cannot be posted until #1 occurs, hopefully sometime in October, 
according to Peter Robinson.

Meanwhile, we're nearly there.

Art Hunkins

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. Richard Boulanger" 
To: 
Cc: ; ; 

Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:32 AM
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Fw: Re: Re: Re: Getting around a (sound) device 
assignment problem in SoaS


Art,

Now that you have figured all this out,  it would be cool for you to
create a SOS page for us at cSounds.com  or Sourceforge.  What do you
think.  Victor showed me SOS a few months back and it was pretty
wonderful.  I think that many csounders would like it especially if
all the pieces, links, tips and toots were all in one place.

Appreciating all your efforts in this area.

-Rick

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:25 AM, "Art Hunkins"  wrote:

> I neglected to mention perhaps the most important fact of all: with  SoaS, 
> any MIDI controller(s) must be plugged in AFTER boot and  BEFORE compiling 
> a .csnd. Users must be given explicit instruction  to this effect.
>
> Note that this limitation does not apply to the XO.
>
> My thoughts are:
> 1) Getting around this limitation is far more trouble that it's worth;
> 2) In the world of XO and Sugar-on-a-Stick a potential  misunderstanding 
> would arise rarely in any case.
>
> Art Hunkins
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Art Hunkins" 
> To: 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 4:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Getting around a (sound) device 
> assignment problem in SoaS
>
>
>> Hi, Andres,
>>
>> With further experimentation, I've found that the following   
>> will work fine for my purposes in the XO-1/Sugar-on-a- Stick context:
>> -odac -+rtaudio=alsa -+rtmidi=alsa -M hw:1,0
>>
>> Comments:
>> Alsa is low-latency as is supported (to this date) on all XO and  SoaS 
>> platforms.
>> -odac refers indeed to the default plughw and makes the conversions  you 
>> mention, at no apparent cost - whereas -odac:hw:0,0 does not. - odac will 
>> thus work as long as there is a single (usually the  builtin) hardware 
>> device. This is something I can count on.
>> -M hw:1,0 will work as long as only one controller is attached  (which I 
>> can count on for my single-controller .csd's), and as long  as any 
>> built-in MIDI interface (rare these days, as Peter pointed  out) is not 
>> being used. I think I can count on MIDI being via USB.  (If someone on 
>> the outside chance *did* want to use a builtin MIDI  interface, he can 
>> change hw:1,0 to hw:0,0.)
>>
>> So, the above will work in all usual configurations, as long as:
>> built-in audio is used;
>> one USB MIDI controller is used
>>
>> For my multiple MIDI controller versions, these will use: - 
>> +rtmidi=alsa -Ma
>> as soon as Peter finds the time to incorporate your multi- controller 
>> patch.
>>
>> Once this is achieved, all my issues are settled, and I'll be a  "happy 
>> camper" (= find my joy).
>>
>> Art Hunkins
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andres Cabrera" 
>> > >
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:27 PM
>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Getting around a (sound) device  assignment 
>> problem in SoaS
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Since there's been no reply, I'll take a stab, but I may be  compeltely 
>> wrong...
>>
>> I think alsa names hw: real hardware devices. Hardware devices can be
>> constrained as to the number of channels or sample rates supported.
>> There might be software interfaces to these devices (like the alsa
>> "default" interface), which are plughw: devices, which can take care
>> of sample rate conversion and different number of channels. To
>> override the default settings, you would need to mess with the
>> .asounrc file, which I wouldn't recommend since it might take you a
>> while, as it is not very documented.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andres
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Art Hunkins   wrote:
>>> In starting down the road Victor suggests (and to solve the problem
>>> addressed in the subject), I immediately ran into an anomaly. I've  no 
>>> idea
>>> whether the issue is Csound's or Sugar/Linux.
>>>
>>> Description:
>>> In working with the XO-1, I settled on a stereo SR=32000. (This is  the
>>> maximum SR I can use with my .csd's and get glitch-free sound on  the 
>>> XO-1.)
>>>
>>> I developed all my work using the  -odac
>>>
>>> Faced with the fact of different device assignments with Sugar on  a 
>>> Stick
>>> (Soas) when MIDI controller(s) are inserted prior to boot, I need  to 
>>> check
>>> for other assignments for -odac, such as hw:1,0.
>>>
>>> Bottom line: -odac executed fine with SR=32000; -odac:hw:0,0 (its 
>>> apparent
>>> equivalent) does not, *though it does fine with SR=44100!* The  error 
>>> message
>>> is: Unable to set sample rate on soundcard. Failed to initialize  real 
>>> time
>>> audio output.
>>>
>>> Apparently there is a difference between 'plughw' (as -odac is  referred 
>>> to
>>> in my error log) and -odac:hw:0,0 (referred to as hw:0,0 in log).
>>>
>>> Linux folk: what is going on here? I need both to: 1) use  SR=32000, and 
>>> 2)
>>> test for different hardware device assignments - including - odac:hw:1,0 
>>> (it
>>> too doesn't like SR=32000).
>>>
>>> Art Hunkins
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "victor" >> >
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 3:52 AM
>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Getting around a (sound) device assignment  problem 
>>> in
>>> SoaS
>>>
>>>
>>>> The compile() function in the API (and in the csndsugui module) 
>>>> returns
>>>> 0 if successful and non-zero if not. You can check for this and 
>>>> recompile
>>>> with different options (etc) until it works.
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Art Hunkins"  
>>>> To: 
>>>> Cc: 
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 4:03 AM
>>>> Subject: [Csnd] Getting around a (sound) device assignment  problem in 
>>>> SoaS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> For SoaS (Fedora Linux), there remains a problem of device  assignment
>>>>> involving audio out and MIDI in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Basically, if you boot SoaS *then* plug in a MIDI controller,  audio 
>>>>> is
>>>>> assigned C0D0; and MIDI, C1D0 (this is as expected). If you plug  in a
>>>>> MIDI
>>>>> controller and then boot SoaS, MIDI gets C0D0 and audio C1D0  (this is
>>>>> *not*
>>>>> as expected!)
>>>>>
>>>>> The latter arrangement generates the following error message (in  its 
>>>>> Log)
>>>>> when
>>>>> a script is run:
>>>>> Can't open device 'plughw' for audio output.
>>>>>
>>>>> It will be necessary to either do something either in Sugar, its 
>>>>> Csound
>>>>> module, or in the python script that runs Csound to work with  this 
>>>>> issue.
>>>>> So far, I've tried making manual changes to the file names 
>>>>> (reflecting
>>>>> the "proper"
>>>>> device numbers, but the error remains.
>>>>>
>>>>> Suggestions? Especially from the Sugar side?
>>>>>
>>>>> It would seem that Sugar needs to
>>>>> look for and assign *audio* device numbers before *MIDI* device 
>>>>> numbers.
>>>>> (Please
>>>>> note that this issue does *not* exist for the native XO-1. Perhaps
>>>>> snooping around
>>>>> in that code would be enlightening.) I'd appreciate the help; I'm
>>>>> absolutely lost here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body 
>>> "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> Andrés
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  "unsubscribe 
>> csound"=
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  "unsubscribe 
> csound"


Send bugs reports to this list.
To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe 
csound"= 

_______________________________________________
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Super.  This is wonderful news.  Can't wait.  Hopefully Victor too  
will share more of his work with OLPC and SOS

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 29, 2009, at 12:53 PM, "Art Hunkins"  wrote:

> Rick,
>
> I'll be happy to do such a page at Csounds.com.
>
> I'll need to wait, however, until the project is complete. Three  
> things need to happen:
> 1) The multiple MIDI controller option of 5.10 needs to be patched  
> into the Sugar Fedora updates (and shown to work);
> 2) This all needs to be available in a regular Sugar release  
> (hopefully, 0.86 but probably later - until then, users/developers  
> won't have easy access to all the features of 5.10, and without  
> updates the current and only Sugar-on-a-Stick Strawberry [0.84]  
> doesn't have a working Csound at all);
> 3) My Activities are properly posted at Sugar Labs (to be widely  
> available). They cannot be posted until #1 occurs, hopefully  
> sometime in October, according to Peter Robinson.
>
> Meanwhile, we're nearly there.
>
> Art Hunkins
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Richard Boulanger"  >
> To: 
> Cc: ; ;  >
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:32 AM
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Fw: Re: Re: Re: Getting around a (sound) device  
> assignment problem in SoaS
>
>
> Art,
>
> Now that you have figured all this out,  it would be cool for you to
> create a SOS page for us at cSounds.com  or Sourceforge.  What do you
> think.  Victor showed me SOS a few months back and it was pretty
> wonderful.  I think that many csounders would like it especially if
> all the pieces, links, tips and toots were all in one place.
>
> Appreciating all your efforts in this area.
>
> -Rick
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:25 AM, "Art Hunkins"  wrote:
>
>> I neglected to mention perhaps the most important fact of all:  
>> with  SoaS, any MIDI controller(s) must be plugged in AFTER boot  
>> and  BEFORE compiling a .csnd. Users must be given explicit  
>> instruction  to this effect.
>>
>> Note that this limitation does not apply to the XO.
>>
>> My thoughts are:
>> 1) Getting around this limitation is far more trouble that it's  
>> worth;
>> 2) In the world of XO and Sugar-on-a-Stick a potential   
>> misunderstanding would arise rarely in any case.
>>
>> Art Hunkins
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Art Hunkins" 
>> To: 
>> Cc: 
>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 4:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Getting around a (sound) device  
>> assignment problem in SoaS
>>
>>
>>> Hi, Andres,
>>>
>>> With further experimentation, I've found that the following   
>>>  will work fine for my purposes in the XO-1/Sugar-on-a-  
>>> Stick context:
>>> -odac -+rtaudio=alsa -+rtmidi=alsa -M hw:1,0
>>>
>>> Comments:
>>> Alsa is low-latency as is supported (to this date) on all XO and   
>>> SoaS platforms.
>>> -odac refers indeed to the default plughw and makes the  
>>> conversions  you mention, at no apparent cost - whereas -odac:hw: 
>>> 0,0 does not. - odac will thus work as long as there is a single  
>>> (usually the  builtin) hardware device. This is something I can  
>>> count on.
>>> -M hw:1,0 will work as long as only one controller is attached   
>>> (which I can count on for my single-controller .csd's), and as  
>>> long  as any built-in MIDI interface (rare these days, as Peter  
>>> pointed  out) is not being used. I think I can count on MIDI being  
>>> via USB.  (If someone on the outside chance *did* want to use a  
>>> builtin MIDI  interface, he can change hw:1,0 to hw:0,0.)
>>>
>>> So, the above will work in all usual configurations, as long as:
>>> built-in audio is used;
>>> one USB MIDI controller is used
>>>
>>> For my multiple MIDI controller versions, these will use: -  
>>> +rtmidi=alsa -Ma
>>> as soon as Peter finds the time to incorporate your multi-  
>>> controller patch.
>>>
>>> Once this is achieved, all my issues are settled, and I'll be a   
>>> "happy camper" (= find my joy).
>>>
>>> Art Hunkins
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andres Cabrera" >> >
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:27 PM
>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Getting around a (sound) device   
>>> assignment problem in SoaS
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Since there's been no reply, I'll take a stab, but I may be   
>>> compeltely wrong...
>>>
>>> I think alsa names hw: real hardware devices. Hardware devices can  
>>> be
>>> constrained as to the number of channels or sample rates supported.
>>> There might be software interfaces to these devices (like the alsa
>>> "default" interface), which are plughw: devices, which can take care
>>> of sample rate conversion and different number of channels. To
>>> override the default settings, you would need to mess with the
>>> .asounrc file, which I wouldn't recommend since it might take you a
>>> while, as it is not very documented.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andres
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Art Hunkins    
>>> wrote:
>>>> In starting down the road Victor suggests (and to solve the problem
>>>> addressed in the subject), I immediately ran into an anomaly.  
>>>> I've  no idea
>>>> whether the issue is Csound's or Sugar/Linux.
>>>>
>>>> Description:
>>>> In working with the XO-1, I settled on a stereo SR=32000. (This  
>>>> is  the
>>>> maximum SR I can use with my .csd's and get glitch-free sound on   
>>>> the XO-1.)
>>>>
>>>> I developed all my work using the  -odac
>>>>
>>>> Faced with the fact of different device assignments with Sugar  
>>>> on  a Stick
>>>> (Soas) when MIDI controller(s) are inserted prior to boot, I  
>>>> need  to check
>>>> for other assignments for -odac, such as hw:1,0.
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line: -odac executed fine with SR=32000; -odac:hw:0,0 (its  
>>>> apparent
>>>> equivalent) does not, *though it does fine with SR=44100!* The   
>>>> error message
>>>> is: Unable to set sample rate on soundcard. Failed to initialize   
>>>> real time
>>>> audio output.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently there is a difference between 'plughw' (as -odac is   
>>>> referred to
>>>> in my error log) and -odac:hw:0,0 (referred to as hw:0,0 in log).
>>>>
>>>> Linux folk: what is going on here? I need both to: 1) use   
>>>> SR=32000, and 2)
>>>> test for different hardware device assignments - including -  
>>>> odac:hw:1,0 (it
>>>> too doesn't like SR=32000).
>>>>
>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "victor" >>> >
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 3:52 AM
>>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Getting around a (sound) device assignment   
>>>> problem in
>>>> SoaS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The compile() function in the API (and in the csndsugui module)  
>>>>> returns
>>>>> 0 if successful and non-zero if not. You can check for this and  
>>>>> recompile
>>>>> with different options (etc) until it works.
>>>>>
>>>>> Victor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Art Hunkins"  >>>> >
>>>>> To: 
>>>>> Cc: 
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 4:03 AM
>>>>> Subject: [Csnd] Getting around a (sound) device assignment   
>>>>> problem in SoaS
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> For SoaS (Fedora Linux), there remains a problem of device   
>>>>>> assignment
>>>>>> involving audio out and MIDI in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically, if you boot SoaS *then* plug in a MIDI controller,   
>>>>>> audio is
>>>>>> assigned C0D0; and MIDI, C1D0 (this is as expected). If you  
>>>>>> plug  in a
>>>>>> MIDI
>>>>>> controller and then boot SoaS, MIDI gets C0D0 and audio C1D0   
>>>>>> (this is
>>>>>> *not*
>>>>>> as expected!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The latter arrangement generates the following error message  
>>>>>> (in  its Log)
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> a script is run:
>>>>>> Can't open device 'plughw' for audio output.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It will be necessary to either do something either in Sugar,  
>>>>>> its Csound
>>>>>> module, or in the python script that runs Csound to work with   
>>>>>> this issue.
>>>>>> So far, I've tried making manual changes to the file names  
>>>>>> (reflecting
>>>>>> the "proper"
>>>>>> device numbers, but the error remains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Suggestions? Especially from the Sugar side?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would seem that Sugar needs to
>>>>>> look for and assign *audio* device numbers before *MIDI* device  
>>>>>> numbers.
>>>>>> (Please
>>>>>> note that this issue does *not* exist for the native XO-1.  
>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>> snooping around
>>>>>> in that code would be enlightening.) I'd appreciate the help; I'm
>>>>>> absolutely lost here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Art Hunkins
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>>> csound"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>>> "unsubscribe
>>>> csound"
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrés
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body   
>>> "unsubscribe csound"=
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body   
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"=
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"

Art,

> I'll be happy to do such a page at Csounds.com.
>
> I'll need to wait, however, until the project is complete. Three things need
> to happen:
> 1) The multiple MIDI controller option of 5.10 needs to be patched into the
> Sugar Fedora updates (and shown to work);
> 2) This all needs to be available in a regular Sugar release (hopefully,
> 0.86 but probably later - until then, users/developers won't have easy
> access to all the features of 5.10, and without updates the current and only
> Sugar-on-a-Stick Strawberry [0.84] doesn't have a working Csound at all);
> 3) My Activities are properly posted at Sugar Labs (to be widely available).
> They cannot be posted until #1 occurs, hopefully sometime in October,
> according to Peter Robinson.

I had a very brief look at this a couple of days ago while avoiding
the study I should have been doing. The patch doesn't apply cleanly to
the 5.10.1 release in Fedora so it might take a bit more work than
expected. I'm hoping to get to this in the first week of October and I
will need you to test it at that point to ensure that it works.

Once that is complete I don't see an issue getting this tagged into
the F-12 beta release (and hence SoaS-2 which has the 0.86 sugar
release).

The current soas-1 release has access to all the Fedora-11 updates
which actually does have a working csound in it (once the updates are
applied) as does the current SoaS-2 snapshot. They just currently
don't have support for multiple midi devices.

I think all the issues should be resolved in a couple of weeks.

Peter